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Prabhupada: Yasodamayi was always thinking of Him, "Here is my son. How to give protection? How to give Him food? How to..." She did not that He is God, but she knew... Gopi knows... He did not know what is Krsna. They know "There is God." That's all. That God is in front of them, that they did not know. They thought, "Our beloved child, beloved friend, dear master..." That's all, absorbed in Krsna. That is the..., their purpose.

Tamala Krsna: They weren't distracted by Krsna's opulence as God.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: They weren't distracted by Krsna being God. They were simply seeing Krsna. [break]

Prabhupada: ...saw the universes, universe, within the mouth of Krsna. So he... She was desiring so many things. Then, when there was no solution, "Oh... He's my child." That's all. She forgot everything, that, what his desire was, what she desired[?], whether it is magic or this or this or that: "Don't mind. There is my child. That's all."

[pause] Hare Krsna. [break]

Tamala Krsna: This is his wife. So they were friends. She was this woman's friend before this woman knew about Krsna. So she's trying to encourage her.

Prabhupada: Very good. [break] ...yatra is going on nicely.

Tamala Krsna: She's supposed to appear in New York Ratha-yatra, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Tamala Krsna: All three, with all of..., many of her followers.

Prabhupada: Public will see how we can unite white and black by this Krsna consciousness. That will be very good result.

Tamala Krsna: Lot of black people follow her. All of her followers are black people.

Prabhupada: Introduce this Ratha-yatra in every city. Great festival. It will attract people. When we first..., first or second year, Upendra was dancing like anything. [laughs] You remember?

Tamala Krsna: That was the second year. Around the tree he would dance.

Prabhupada: Yes. Do you remember that?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupada. [laughs]

Prabhupada: Maddened with gladness. You were sitting by my side. That was very nice.

Tamala Krsna: That was the big festival. Remember how many people came?

Prabhupada: No, it was very, mean, engladdening festival. Everyone...

Tamala Krsna: Remember that hall at the end? Everybody was standing and jumping and chanting. You stood up with all the chanting.

Prabhupada: It was very successful.

Tamala Krsna: You even danced on the cart that year. Because the cart could not pass under the tunnel, so instead you stood up and got everybody dancing. Twice you stood up.

Prabhupada: Now they are demonstrating something else. Let them make their...

Tamala Krsna: Demonstrating?

Prabhupada: That space? They're making some huts.

Tamala Krsna: Oh. That means at the conclusion, where the festival comes to at the end, apart from the stage where Lord Jagannatha is, where the devotees will be chanting, there will also be many booths, selling prasada and your books. So these booths will be set within little houses that look like Indian-style houses. It'll appear like Jagannatha Puri. That's what they want to make it look like. 'Cause San Francisco they call New Jagannatha Puri. Anyway, it'll give a feeling of cultural change. It's one... It may be... It's one of the very biggest festivals now in the United States. It is already.

Prabhupada: Last time, when I was there, so many young persons, they were giving me, "Thanks, Prabhupada." They were feeling some enlightenment. Do you remember?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Out of their own accord, they were giving, "Thanks, Prabhupada. Thanks, Prabhupada." They were not my disciples.

Tamala Krsna: No, with great feeling they were serving.

Prabhupada: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideas, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become [indistinct]. Hare Krsna. But during Ratha-yatra, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. [break] Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: Very much. She's impressed with every single aspect of Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you'll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?

Tamala Krsna: I did. I've seen generally throughout India that respectable younger people are attracted. They may not join fully, but they're attracted to our movement. One of the things that attracts them is the fact that there are Westerners who are sincere here, 'cause they want to imitate the West, and yet here are Westerners who are devotees. And they are amazed. They like that feature, that there are not only... There are both a mixture of Indian and Westerners. They like that. They feel that it is very..., that the Westerners must have come out of some, you know, intelligence.

Prabhupada: And they are hearing the philosophy also. In the evening class they come.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Oh, yes. Bhavananda always has young people coming to Mayapur. Intelligent, well-educated, wealthy people's children come. He yells at them like anything. He tells them that "Why are you imitating the West when you have the greatest culture?" Bhavananda Maharaja yells at them, chastises them. They like it. Naturally they like it, because he's praising their culture.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is a fact. And the books are selling very nice, Bengali?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. Now there's about seven or eight parties traveling around India, simply doing book distribution.

Prabhupada: That is our aim.

Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja, Gopala Krsna. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupada: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja? Well, he's taken two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He's now paid off ten thousand. Every month he's sending regularly five thousand. He's done that regularly now. And then he's taken another loan...

Prabhupada: For printing books.

Tamala Krsna: ...for printing books.

Prabhupada: One lakh of rupees, hmm?

Tamala Krsna: No, it isn't that much, Srila Prabhupada. It was about forty-five thousand rupees so far.

Prabhupada: Anyway, he can take any amount of money, provided he returns.

Tamala Krsna: That's what I told him. After I received the second payment, I said, "This is very good. If you continue to pay off to me, you can expect to get more loans."

Prabhupada: So I am very eagerly waiting. If some of our men get permanent visa, then I'll do very vigorous propaganda.

Tamala Krsna: [laughs] You're waiting for that.

Prabhupada: Waiting for that.

Tamala Krsna: You're holding back a little bit because it's not sure that we can stay here now.

Prabhupada: No, training men, and they are forced to go away. Very bad government.

Tamala Krsna: For no reason. We're not in any way a threat. We're an asset.

Prabhupada: And therefore I say, if the government considers this and do, then we can expect. Otherwise what is the use of meeting with? Waste of time.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: If they do not understand the importance of the movement.

Tamala Krsna: I think they must.

Prabhupada: If they are intelligent, they must. But they are all rascal, rogues, thieves and...

Tamala Krsna: Krsna has given you all facilities, so why...? I'm sure He'll give this one also. I just got a notice from... The visa people gave me notice in writing that on such and such date I have to leave, and I have to think how to appeal. They're harassing everybody.

Prabhupada: You can write that "Our permanent visa is being considered by the Central Government."

Tamala Krsna: Our application pending.

Prabhupada: "If required, you can inquire from the Minister of..."

Tamala Krsna: Home.

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, Foreign Affairs.

Prabhupada: Foreign Affairs, that "My position, it is in his hand now."

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, by the time I write my letter, my name will be one of those people on the list, so it's a fact.

Prabhupada: When he is going to submit?

Tamala Krsna: He said in two weeks he'd be returning and submitting, so I'm thinking about four or five days. Around five.

Prabhupada: Mention this.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, that'll be a good...

Prabhupada: In the meantime, your notice to you can be submitted also, that "This is..."

Tamala Krsna: As an example. Yeah, I mean, I'm now your personal secretary....

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...and even me they're harassing. Ridiculous.

Prabhupada: This should be done very carefully. "He's acting as a secretary, so important, and he's [indistinct]."

Tamala Krsna: "Could you please give a little..." And if they say, "Then why did you come as a tourist and not on an entry visa?" I'll say, "Because it's impossible even to get entry visa."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: It is impossible. You can sometimes wait for years to get entry. They force us to come on tourist visa by not granting entry. Then they say, "Why did you come on a tourist visa? Why didn't you get entry visa?"

Prabhupada: Dilemma.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, it is a...

Prabhupada: If you come this side, you are condemned. If you come this side...

Tamala Krsna: We are bewildered. In either case we're condemned.

Prabhupada: Eguleo gheror gheror pichuleo nirvamsera beta. [Transl. to be between Scylla and Charybdis.]

Tamala Krsna: I've seen that Krsna always helps you, Srila Prabhupada. Even against Mr. Nair, such a big demon, the way he was acting... I mean, simply by your devotion Krsna did everything.

Prabhupada: No, if it is actually considered by the Cabinet, there will be some...

Tamala Krsna: Then there's a good chance.

Prabhupada: You show me the list of men.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. I'm writing Gopala, so I'll tell him to send a copy here. He's the one who's composing the list.

Prabhupada: He alone doing that?

Tamala Krsna: He says he was going to do it in conjunction with the temple presidents in India. And me. Said he was going to do it in conjunction with me and the temple presidents. I don't see how he's going to do that, sitting in Bombay.

Prabhupada: You did not ask that "You are here, and I am seven hundred miles away. How you'll do?"

Tamala Krsna: Actually, I wrote him a letter stating...

Prabhupada: Simply explanation, but there is no practical. I receive only explanation-"I did it. I did it." That's all. Where is the action?

Tamala Krsna: I told him to...

Prabhupada: You told him, that's all. Where is the action? If that is idea, "I told him," what is the result? Nothing. In every case, "I told him." This is the sign of irresponse... It is so important thing-simply "I told him." That's all. "Then my business is finished."

Tamala Krsna: He left the day we came here, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: That is going on, simply explanation, "I told him." That...

Tamala Krsna: I don't know what further I could have done, because he left.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Then do it like that. That is gudakesa. This practice you'll never be able to accept.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, I wanted to do this when we were in Bombay. I was going to write all of the presidents. At that time you advised me that we should wait until something, you know...

Prabhupada: It is very important to select the names. He is doing alone. "He told me."

Tamala Krsna: I didn't tell him to do it alone. I told him with Gargamuni and Giriraja and himself, they should sign. I told him specifically not to do it alone. And I wanted to write the temple presidents, but you advised me a few months ago not to. I was going to get a list from them, recommended, and then sit with, you know, Gopala, and decide which of the fifty people chosen...

Prabhupada: That's all right. Don't require.

Upendra: Massage... [break] [end]