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Bhakti-prema: You like that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-prema: Yes, it is nicer.

Prabhupada: That I have seen. I told him in... What is that land?

Tamala Krsna: Switzerland.

Prabhupada: Switzerland. Yes. From Switzerland they'll...

Bhakti-prema: So big mountain.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-prema: And he took [indistinct] in other planets?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-prema: The same with this Meru Mountain, it spreads...

Prabhupada: They cannot explain what is that. But I have seen it. Where it has gone, nobody knows. Just see. Down, hundred miles, and up. You cannot see more than hundred... But it appears like the instruction.

Tamala Krsna: This is Jambudvipa, part of Jambudvipa. That is Ilavrta-varsa in the square. We have... These mountains are each two thousand yojanas high.

Bhakti-prema: [indistinct] After Mandara Meru, Mandara, that Mandara Mountain... And here he began to meditate. He meditated for six thousand years on this Mandara Mountain here. Mother Parvati blessed him, and she [indistinct] Then next is [indistinct]. These two mountains are like [describes sketch of planetary system-indistinct] And here is the Milk planet.

Tamala Krsna: Milky Way.

Bhakti-prema: Yes. And here is the beautiful Indus[?] tree. And at its highest... Eight hundred miles.

Tamala Krsna: Where is it?

Bhakti-prema: On the Mandara Mountain. There are four different trees. This is Ilavrta-varsa.

Yasodanandana: This area?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes.

Prabhupada: Sivaloka? Sivaloka?

Bhakti-prema: Yes, it is not actually Sivaloka, but residence of Lord Siva.

Tamala Krsna: One of his... He described it as like during the summertime you go to a hill station. Each demigod has their place where they also go.

Bhakti-prema: Sivaloka is different, but Lord Siva has a different...

Prabhupada: Summer residence.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Why not? If a man can have summer residence, Lord Siva...

Tamala Krsna: Brahmapuri?

Bhakti-prema: Yes, this is Brahmapuri.

Tamala Krsna: His actual residence? Or summer residence?

Bhakti-prema: Yes, summer. Actual residence is in Satyaloka. Brahma is actually in Satyaloka. That means two millions..., two million miles away from sun planet.

Prabhupada: That... Then it is universe.

Bhakti-prema: Yes, in the universe. It is very high. And just... This is...

Prabhupada: And where is that cakra?

Bhakti-prema: Cakra?

Prabhupada: That polestar, center?

Tamala Krsna: That will be in another...

Bhakti-prema: We will give another picture.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Tamala Krsna: This picture only shows mainly part of Jambudvipa and especially Ilavrta-varsa, the middle of...

Prabhupada: So Brahmaloka is in Jambudvipa?

Bhakti-prema: No, no, no. Brahmaloka is in Satyaloka.

Prabhupada: Oh, then what is this?

Bhakti-prema: This is Mount Meru.

Prabhupada: But you said Brahmaloka.

Bhakti-prema: Brahmapuri.

Prabhupada: Brahmapuri, that.

Bhakti-prema: Summer residence.

Tamala Krsna: The middle part.

Bhakti-prema: And then there are eight different residences of different loka-palas: Indra, Agni, Yama, Varuna...

Prabhupada: Summer residence.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, on top of Meru, like a hill station. [laughter]

Bhakti-prema: You won't find many even like a [indistinct].

Prabhupada: And they simply find rocks and sand. How nonsense.

Tamala Krsna: Because that's all there is in Arizona.

Prabhupada: [laughs] That is... Do it nicely, carefully.

Bhakti-prema: So scientists cannot try to realize the height of this mountain...

Prabhupada: Not advised.

Bhakti-prema: They come just here.

Prabhupada: I have seen. They can go little higher than that earth. That's all. They cannot go even that peak. As soon as they go, finished.

Bhakti-prema: This is more than six lakhs' miles from the earth, the height of Mount Meru.

Tamala Krsna: The airplane goes about eight miles.

Bhakti-prema: Eight hundred.

Tamala Krsna: No, airplane I said. It goes about eight miles. Five thousand feet equals one mile. And they go forty thousand. So how much is forty thousand? Eight miles.

Devotee (1): Forty thousand feet divided by five means approximately eight miles.

Tamala Krsna: Airplane goes eight miles high, and this Meru Mandapa is 800,000 total, a hundred thousand yojanas, one lakh of yojanas. So this is very high up, nearly 600,000 miles high. An airplane only goes five miles..., eight miles.

Devotee (1): Eight miles.

Tamala Krsna: They have no idea about distances.

Bhakti-prema: If we rise above, man, six thousand miles, then we will arrive at sun planet.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-prema: And then more, eight lakhs miles, that means moon planet.

Prabhupada: Then miles? They could not explain why Sunday first.

Tamala Krsna: Right. That question stumps.

Prabhupada: Common sense. Sunday, Monday. Sunday. Sun must be first. Then... This is my commonsense interpretation.

Yasodanandana: You have written in Bhagavatam like that.

Prabhupada: Yes. And these rascals say moon first.

Puskara: Srila Prabhupada, previously we painted in the art department... It's described that Varaha lifted the earth, and the earth was a globe, and we showed also a globe of the earth. How does that relate to this? Previously, when we painted, we showed the earth a ball. So now the artists will be very confused. How it fell in the Garbha Ocean as a ball?

Yasodanandana: It depends on what we mean by earth. The Western conception of earth is just five continents and a few oceans, but according to Bhagavatam, earth means Jambudvipa, because earth is connected with Jambudvipa.

Puskara: So whole Jambudvipa fell.

Bhakti-prema: Bhagavata describes the height of Himalaya, eighty thousand miles.

Prabhupada: No, about this earth globe.

Bhakti-prema: About the earth it describes four billion miles.

Tamala Krsna: That means Jambudvipa.

Bhakti-prema: No, that means complete earth, four billion miles. That is eight lakhs miles, Jambudvipa.

Tamala Krsna: Four billion is the universe.

Bhakti-prema: Bhu-mandala.

Tamala Krsna: Bhu-mandala. Oh, the Bhagavatam describes Bhu-mandala as earth.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Yasodanandana: Bhumi.

Bhakti-prema: [indistinct] has come from the Garbhodaka ocean, from the bottom of the [indistinct] ocean.

Prabhupada: So explained there. Then this question is solved.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. The whole Bhu-mandala fell.

Bhakti-prema: So the universe is round, and from bottom of the Garbhodaka ocean to top of Satyaloka there is four billion miles. Then the again, the next, from east to west again is another four billion miles. Because Bhu-mandala is situated in between the earth.

Prabhupada: Explain. He'll explain.

Yasodanandana: [background talking-indistinct]

Bhakti-prema: Yes, this is eighty-four thousand above the earth. Sixty..., sixteen thousand [indistinct].

Tamala Krsna: And that is saltwater ocean, behind it.

Yasodanandana: Saltwater ocean goes all around.

Bhakti-prema: All around.

Tamala Krsna: It's actually a circle, but we have shown one area, so it looks flat.

Bhakti-prema: This is a [indistinct] ocean. And this is Srṅgavan Mountain. And this is [indistinct] varsa. And it's divided by Sveta [indistinct]. And this is all eighty thousand miles high and sixteen thousand miles wide, these mountains. And these names...

Prabhupada: All marble. Mountain.

Tamala Krsna: What are they made of?

Yasodanandana: Each mountain is made of a different kind of stone. Some are made of gold; some are made of coral; some of them, stones called lapis lazuli, that blue stone that Krsna wears. Each mountain has different variety.

Prabhupada: They will be puzzled. These material scientists will be puzzled. [laughter]

Bhakti-prema: But according to Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the beginning of creation we have relationship with all these areas. Even five thousand years ago Pariksit Maharaja went and he conquered this area. It is mentioned. I am translating... I have translated this. So it is mentioned this [indistinct]-varsa was conquered by... And this Ramya[?]-varsa was also conquered. And Vardhanya also [indistinct]. And then this is Bharata-varsa, this whole world.

Tamala Krsna: Where?

Bhakti-prema: This.

Tamala Krsna: That is Bharata-varsa.

Bhakti-prema: Yeah, and he was residing here. He was living here. And then he crossed this mountain.

Prabhupada: Crossed?

Bhakti-prema: Yes. And he conquered it. Not only he saw; he conquered it. And it is surrounded by five other oceans. And again this is surrounded by Plaksadvipa. And Plaksadvipa is surrounded by sugarcane juice ocean. Again there are ten mountains.

Tamala Krsna: That is what we're painting next.

Bhakti-prema: Next time we'll show you.

Tamala Krsna: Bhu-mandala, the whole Bhu-mandala, these different oceans and dvipas. That will be in color.

Prabhupada: Very nice.

Tamala Krsna: This Puskara, he did the...

Puskara: I made the mess. [laughs]

Prabhupada: He'll do something wonderful in arts. Krsna will make. They will combine. All right. Jaya.

Devotees: [offer obeisances]

Prabhupada: Vedic planetarium.

Bhakti-prema: Next step will be planetary system.

Prabhupada: All right.

Bhakti-prema: The third planetary system, above Mount Meru. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Jaya. You have taken lunch?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupada. [break]

Prabhupada: ...there is sun, and above that, there is moon. And they are going to moon. They are going nowhere-simply taking laboratory photo, studio, and cheating. Why this cheating can go on? You do not know. That's all. Who is insisting that "We must know"? [Transl. This is playing off tricks. For nothing. That is human nature. It is good that it was protested. There is no benefit, no benefit for others. All useless. asatyere satya kari mani, ahaṅkare matta haiya, nitai-pada pasariya, astyere satya kari mani. [Prarthana Song 36, Srila Narottama dasa Thakura] They are atheists in the opinion of Bhagavad-gita .Those who are not devotees of the Supreme Lord, their mentality is like that. They present false as reality. Asatyere satya kari mani. What is the need? We speak with conviction. Simple hear and accept what Krsna is saying. That's all. Have faith. First consider then speak.] [end]