770628R3.VRN

[audio very faint in places]

Prabhupada: ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that's all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this and that. "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.

Satadhanya: Whose?

Prabhupada: Malthus.

Tamala Krsna: Malthus.

Prabhupada: So I don't speak I am authorized. I have studied both ways.

Tamala Krsna: That's what makes your books so unique: that others might have had some scholarly knowledge, but you have so much experience and realization packed into those books that it's so appealing, the scholars delight in reading the purports.

Prabhupada: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say..., want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Satadhanya: You are compassionate.

Prabhupada: Yes. Tatha vinoda[?]. I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting, "From monkey, man has come." That's all. But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?

Upendra: Anthropomorphism.

Prabhupada: And... What do you call, this science?

Satadhanya: Anthropology.

Prabhupada: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavarah... [Padma Purana]. That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest," nonsense. Who is fit?

Tamala Krsna: No one except the devotee is fit.

Prabhupada: Everyone is dying. Who is the fittest?

Tamala Krsna: The devotee is alone eternal.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore, but for the devotees, they do not know. They are all rascals, animals. But here, this statement, "fittest," who is fittest?

Tamala Krsna: Materially no one.

Prabhupada: Still the theory is going on, "Survival of the fittest."

Tamala Krsna: They say some are more fit than others.

Prabhupada: But who is that fit, rascal?

Tamala Krsna: Who is the most fit?

Prabhupada: Who is that? Show me.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, today we said-an elephant can also be killed easily.

Prabhupada: Everything is killed. "Fittest." Nobody is fittest in this world. Dehapatya-kalatradisv atma-sainyesv asatsv api [SB 2.1.4]. Everyone is asat. He'll not exist. That is statement of the... Bhagavata never said, "Here is a person or animal, fittest." That is not Bhagavata. Tesam nidhanam pramattah pasyann api na pasyati. The rascal is so mad that everything will be finished, and he is talking of "fittest." All theory; no practical. Unnecessarily spent millions and millions of dollars, that "We have gone to moon." Why? Why this bogus propaganda? What is the value? And they take pride. Now we are drawing picture how many miles away. It is impossible to find out. And why they make this bogus propaganda?

Tamala Krsna: It's totally impossible they went to the moon.

Prabhupada: No, they have not gone, but still, they are making such a big propaganda. What is the mentality?

Tamala Krsna: Cheaters.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Cheaters, sense gratifiers.

Prabhupada: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahma it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Satadhanya: To stop.

Tamala Krsna: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...

Prabhupada: That means they are rascals. They are going all wrong.

Tamala Krsna: Mahatma Gandhi.

Prabhupada: No. Nothing. Simply false pride, that's all.

Tamala Krsna: And these are the people that we are preaching to.

Prabhupada: That is our duty.

Tamala Krsna: You preach to us.

Prabhupada: In the distinction between two civilizations, they, they want to increase the bad qualifications; we want to decrease them.

Satadhanya: And yet they say we are bad.

Prabhupada: They'll say. That is natural.

Satadhanya: They say good is bad and bad is good-completely opposite.

Tamala Krsna: That's stated in the Gita-the divine and demonic.

Satadhanya: Divine and demonic natures.

Tamala Krsna: Did you take that medicine this morning?

Prabhupada: Hmm. So he has brought? No.

Tamala Krsna: He asked [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So do you think we should bring the man here?

Tamala Krsna: No, no...

Prabhupada: First of all...

Tamala Krsna: We should [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Tamala Krsna: And then, if it works, we can bring him. I'm still not fully satisfied. I think it works, but I'm not sure.

Prabhupada: Working very slowly.

Tamala Krsna: Which isn't bad. You like slow rather than suddenly.

Prabhupada: Slow and sure.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. But let us see. When it is so slow, it's not sure yet. If you want, you could take a little rest before your massage, Srila Prabhupada. You didn't get much rest outside.

Prabhupada: That's all right. [break] I think they have suffered, regularly living with rats.

Tamala Krsna: Calcutta and Delhi.

Prabhupada: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body. [laughs]

Tamala Krsna: Sounds like Hare Krsna Land, Juhu.

Prabhupada: Yes, that one palace.

Tamala Krsna: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become satisfied with Krsna consciousness. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify it, don't bother about this. Be Krsna conscious. Increase this qualification.

Tamala Krsna: We find that to increase fasting on Ekadasi day makes that newfound [indistinct] come like anything.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: You begin to realize there's nothing else beside Krsna consciousness. Can't eat... Actually it's quite a nice realization. When food goes, then you realize that the shelter is also [indistinct]. With Krsna you can go on chanting, reading Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: In Marwari community they have now degraded. Otherwise they are very nice. Now they have become, recently, in our [indistinct], hippies.

Satadhanya: Hmm. The young... This new generation, we have seen. They are copying Western.

Tamala Krsna: We must... That boy, that Dalmia's grandson, unless he comes to our gurukula, he will be spoiled for sure.

Prabhupada: Hmm, hmm. But Dalmia agreed. That means if you approach the members, you'll get students.

Tamala Krsna: And Aurora's son, he agreed. I talked to him yesterday. I said "What about your son going to gurukula now?" He said, "I will send my son there."

Prabhupada: So in this way you will get students.

Tamala Krsna: That Aurora is very qualified, very important. He was a judge in South Africa. He was an international lawyer. He graduated from Harvard, so many big schools-Oxford, Harvard. I know he wasn't lying. It's true. He held very good position.

Prabhupada: Is Aurora pleader? Is Aurora pleader, you mean?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that barrister. He said he'll send his son on to our gurukula. We have to take very good care to make the gurukula bona fide and genuine. It's really lucky you got that Dr. Sharma. Clearly he's the best. I mean, he's already been principal of big schools.

Prabhupada: Human activity should be guided toward Krsna consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress.

[indistinct-much of it faint]

The same shape, [indistinct] they are improving to make straighter, short, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. They have no knowledge. Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.

Tamala Krsna: In our temple?

Prabhupada: No, no, some public...

Tamala Krsna: No, that... And even the fact that they got married is more than most people do nowadays. They don't even get married.

Prabhupada: There is no marriage. And in Bhagavata says, "There will be no more marriage. Agreement."

Tamala Krsna: Sex agreement.

Satadhanya: And in Switzerland, in the schools, they teach small children, "You should have sex at early age." They teach in school.

Prabhupada: Switzerland.

Satadhanya: Switzerland, yeah. They say they are the most liberal.

Tamala Krsna: Therefore it's easy to see why your Guru Maharaja said that this world is not a fit place for a gentleman.

Prabhupada: As I told you many times, in the Western countries, so long I am in the temple, I am safe. And as soon as I go out of the temple, it is hell. And implica..., how they are attached. How they are doing?

Tamala Krsna: That's one thing I noticed when I came to India. I felt, only in India, it's the only place that I could go out of the temple and still I felt it wasn't so hellish. I actually felt that. You know, just like when we were living in Kamla Nagar in Delhi. There were many karmis around, but still... Most of them... Many were vegetarians. Many, I could hear puja.

Prabhupada: No, there is some practical life.

Tamala Krsna: Many devotees like to come to India to serve here in our movement because of that. The general culture still...

Satadhanya: The atmosphere is conducive towards spiritual life.

Tamala Krsna: And here in Vrndavana it is fully transcendental.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Especially this Raman Reti. Every place here is an asrama.

Prabhupada: So just try to help them. Help them, introduce them, and give everything. That is my request. As far as possible, all facilities are there. I have such a big plan. Who'll merit the ideas? We never...

Tamala Krsna: Bhaktivinoda Thakura uses the word "imbibe," that Krsna consciousness is imbibed from one pure soul to another.

Prabhupada: That is parampara.

Tamala Krsna: Disciplic succession.

Prabhupada: Krsna-Balarama is there. Guru Maharaja is present. [indistinct]

Upendra: All glories to Srila Prabhupada. [break] [very long pause] You'll take in your room, massage?

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Upendra: You want to go?

Prabhupada: All right. What is the time?

Upendra: Oh, it's half past ten.

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Upendra: You came in from the garden at nine o'clock. Then of course we were talking. [end]