Audio
Indian man: Putrika
Gargamuni: Two of our men tried to go to Manipur from Shillong. And they... Do you know Prabhavisnu?
Gargamuni: But they could not... You have to get special license for foreigners.
Prabhupada: We shall get it. He will arrange. Yes.
[long pause]
Prabhupada: [Transl. So they are going to receive six persons?]
Prabhupada: So you can arrange it. We shall go.
Prabhupada: Yes, let us cooperate.
Prabhupada: Let us cooperate. The Manipur is already... For the last five thousand years at least, their name is in the Bhagavatam-Manipur. And still they are Vaisnavas. They have got temple in Navadvipa, in Vrndavana. So Manipur have cele...
Gargamuni: The chief minister also came, in the past. Singh. Karan Singh?
Prabhupada: The governor of Punjab is Manipuri. He's so kind, he came to see me with his full staff. That governor is so respectful to me. So he came to see me. You know?
Pradyumna: Yes. At Chandigarh.
Prabhupada: Chandigarh, yes. In his state way-aide-de-camp, secretary, everything-he came to offer me respect. So Manipuri people are very nice. So why not organize, rejuvenate them? So you are the Manipur's son. Now you are a perfect Vaisnava. Let us make Manipur a Vaisnava ksatriya center, very nice. Then make relation with Nepal. Nepal, they are ksatriyas also.
Prabhupada: There is marriage.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are ksatriyas. Manipur, they are ksatriyas, and Nepal is also ksatriya. Bhopal?
Prabhupada: Bhopal is also? They are ksatriyas?
Prabhupada: Bhutan. Bhutan, yes. Not Bhopal. Bhopal is in... In Bhutan.
Prabhupada: So make Manipur a strong center and preach. The other side, Manipur, next is Burma?
Gargamuni: Burma.
Prabhupada: Still?
Prabhupada: Fighting between king and king, there is always. But what is the cause of fight? Vaisnava should fight with the non-Vaisnava. So I have already written you?
Prabhupada: So you can arrange when it will be suitable to go there.
Prabhupada: Then it is not so good.
Prabhupada: So...
Gargamuni: We should go after Mayapur.
Prabhupada: You came directly here by plane?
Svarupa Damodara: No. I came to Calcutta. [Transl. I was thinking you are in Bombay.] So I was planning to go to Bombay. Then I went to the temple. Last night I came, and I called the temple, but there was nobody, so I didn't know where Prabhupada is. So I was trying to go to Bombay today. Then I learned from the temple that Prabhupada is here, so I was planning to go by..., to come by train. Then I found out there is an airplane also available, so I came by plane.
Prabhupada: Yes, from Calcutta to Bhubaneswar there is plane.
Prabhupada: Bhubaneswar, Jagannatha Puri, they are important places. So give him prasada first, [Transl. Take your Prasad.]
Prabhupada: Ah, ah.
Prabhupada: Yes. [to other devotees:] We have started one institute. Bhaktivedanta Institute?
Prabhupada: They are publishing one paper, Sa-vijnanam. How do you like this name? Sa-vijnanam. This is picked up from...
Gargamuni: Daily?
Prabhupada: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemical combination. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree[?]. He can also join.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Gargamuni: So if I can show him this letter I can make arrangements now, so that after Mayapur we can go.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Gargamuni: I can give them the names and our passport numbers.
Gargamuni: All right.
Prabhupada: So you arrange it.
Gargamuni: Yes. 'Cause he will give this letter of recommendation for us to go.
Prabhupada: Who is he?
[break]
Gargamuni: He's our member. [break] ...three times to our temple in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Gargamuni: And through another member, Mr. Mahesvari, he became one of our members. [break]
Indian man: [Transl. Who would have accepted?]
Prabhupada: So? What other pictures?
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gita-a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology and from sociology. So it was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and the other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.
Prabhupada: Balavanta was in Manipur?
Prabhupada: United States.
Prabhupada: So what these big, big scientists said?
Svarupa Damodara: The chairman gave me a nice letter saying that this is the first type of seminar that he has ever heard in his life. [Prabhupada chuckles] We made the presentation sound very scientific. We had the slide projection on one side, and this overhead projection on the other side. So it made a good presentation so that people can be attracted. It was quite effective. In fact, it was the most effective so far we have seen, because it was very colorful, the pictures, and we were comparing the fundamental concept of the Absolute Truth as it is understood by modern science and the defects of it, and then what is the alternative, the alternative view. We call it the other alternative scientific view. That is from... We speak about the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita, about the nature of life, about the nature of the self. We've taken that it's nonchemical and nonphysical. Then we try to explain it in terms of scientific terminologies and scientific language.
Prabhupada: The..., that verse, that "It does not burn, it does not..."
Prabhupada: That is...
Prabhupada: Nainam chindanti. That is the nonphysical.
Prabhupada: We are presenting sastriya's version in modern scientific symbolic representative. So the chairman said that he never...?
Prabhupada: [reading chart] "Two alternative views of the laws of nature. These laws exist, but they are inconceivable to the human mind. The view of modern science-yes. They exist invariantly throughout space-yes. They do not change with time-yes. They control all manifestation-no." What that is, mean?
Svarupa Damodara: Modern science. On Bhagavad-gita... On the right column is from Bhagavad-gita, the right-hand side, the alternative... We do not call Bhagavad-gita directly, but we say "the alternative view," so that they do not immediately be offended. We call "alternative scientific view." [break]
Prabhupada: Now some tussles...
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, some of these mathematical equations. And so if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this-those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile... Oh. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from Nile..., from South Africa, in Scientific American just a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...
Prabhupada: They come out from egg?
Prabhupada: Oh. How big it is?
Prabhupada: Not very big.
Pradyumna: Not very big. Because they have baby crocodiles at home. In the United States it used to be the fashion to get a baby crocodile and keep him in a tub. Then he would get too big, so they would flush it down the toilet. And then in the sewers in New York, many crocodiles.
Pradyumna: If one goes in the sewers it's very dangerous, because crocodiles have grown up and they are in the sewers. So they get them small size and they keep them at home.
Prabhupada: And when it is bigger it is thrown into commode?
Pradyumna: Thrown in the commode. And it goes to the sewer. And in the sewer in New York are big underground, big, big tunnels, and in there big, big crocodiles. The men who work in the sewers..., very dangerous for them because there're all big things there, crocodiles, snake, big cats.
Prabhupada: Big cats?
Pradyumna: And big rats.
Prabhupada: So the crocodile, they do not eat the rats?
Pradyumna: There are all kinds of many living entities there in the sewers of New York. In all sewers in big Western cities. There's once... There's a very famous French novel, and it describes how a prisoner was escaping from troops, so he went in the sewer. And in the sewer there was all kinds of so many things. Once an article about New York sewers...
Prabhupada: They can live in that nasty water?
Prabhupada: And what they eat?
Pradyumna: London sewers also.
Svarupa Damodara: The idea behind this is that the jaws of this crocodile is so big and so powerful that they can crush, they say, the femur of a buffalo, the thigh, a big..., all at once, they can crush it immediately. But in the case of the egg, he has this loving tendency, tender care, so that the little one is not hurt-the feeling, their conscious feeling.
Prabhupada: Affectionate.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. How that can come about by this..., those pushes and pulls? That is our question. We inquire how can this be explained just in terms of atoms and molecules. If we assume that life is nothing but a manifestation of these pushes and pulls of these molecular interactions, then science has no explanation. Then we take example from Darwin himself, his own words.
Hari-sauri: Did you read this caption, Srila Prabhupada, for this crocodile? 'Cause it explains how the male crocodile, he takes the egg underneath his tongue and he rolls it backwards and forwards very gently until the young crocodile hatches, and then he leaves his mouth open, and the little crocodile jumps out and swims ashore.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Prabhupada: How it is... How would that..., eggs?
Gargamuni: After all, they are man-eaters. They would immediately eat.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gargamuni: But he is not eating.
Prabhupada: No, that the other day we saw, the lions.There were four, baby lions-not baby, very big-but there is no attack. There is no attack. The feelings of affection is there in the animal, ferocious animal. So what is the scientists' reply?
Prabhupada: So you are attacking them like this. Choke. [laughs] [laughter] That is good.
Prabhupada: [reading] "I remember well the time when the thought of the eye made..." What is that? "...eye made me cold, when the eye made me cold all over, but I have got over this stage of the complaint, and now a small trifling, particulars of structure often make me very uncomfortable. The sight of a feather in a peacock's tail, whenever I crease[?] at the neck..."
Prabhupada: "Make me sick." What does he mean by this?
Svarupa Damodara: He says... See, his theory of evolution cannot explain how these eyes are evolved, our eyes. So he felt very uncomfortable just seeing in the beginning these eyes, our eyes. But he says that now that stage he has overcome to some extent. But still, one particular phenomenon is bothering him very much, that is the eye in the peacock's tail. It is the delicate, nice design with is colorful structure.
Prabhupada: How it evolved.
Pradyumna: It's the opposite of the devotee.
Prabhupada: [chuckles] Rascal. Artificially, how long you'll stand?
Svarupa Damodara: Actually he has... He has remarked many important things for us also, especially in his autobiography. We are quoting some of his words saying that when he was young, in his childhood, he was very fascinated by works of art, like reading literature, like works of Shakespeare and poets like Byron, Keats and Shelley. He said he was very fascinated in his childhood, in his...
Prabhupada: No, he was a thoughtful man, undoubtedly.
Svarupa Damodara: But when he finished his book, The Theory of Evolution, in his old age, he said he lost all the taste. He said whenever he starts to remember his youthful days, he said, he's almost at the point of nauseation, almost vomiting. Whenever he remembers Shakespeare, Byron and all these things, he says he just begins to vomit.
Prabhupada: He became too much prosaic. He became prosaic. He could not appreciate poetic.
Prabhupada: He regrets.
Prabhupada: He was a scientist?
Svarupa Damodara: He was called naturalist. Yes, he was... He had some background in biology. And to counteract his statement we have also another statement from... This is from Einstein, but another, from Pasteur. This is very suitable for our purpose. [pause] Einstein was against the..., what they call the laws of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is the most advanced stage of modern physics or modern chemistry. But they are..., says that there must be chance. They must introduce a concept of chance in order to explain the nature of the Absolute Truth. In other words, these physical laws, the laws of nature...
Prabhupada: The Absolute Truth is also chance?
Svarupa Damodara: In order to write down in the form of mathematical formulas or equations in quantum mechanics this-they call probability-the theory of probability, or chance, should be introduced. But Einstein was against that. That's what he's saying. It says, "The Heisenberg all-tranquilizing philosophy or religion is so delicately contrived that for the time being it provides a gentle pillow for the true believer from which he cannot very easily be aroused. So let him lie there." In other words, those who believe in chance... The main concept in quantum mechanics or quantum physics is mainly from this Heisenberg and Bohr. They are well-known physicists. And there is a chapter called "Copenhagen Interpretation." There was a great meeting in Copenhagen about this concept of quantum mechanics, and so they call it "Copenhagen Interpretation." And there the names which were..., this Heisenberg and Bohr. And they were saying that "Yes, we must accept that there must be chance." So the argument was put forward by these people, but Einstein is against to that idea. So he's saying that "Those who believe, let them lie there, because the philosophy made by these people serves as a very gentle pillow, very soft. So once people lie there, they cannot be very easily aroused." That's the idea. "But," he said, "that is not a fact."
Prabhupada: So why the scientists die?
Prabhupada: Yes. Why do not make some arrangement so they'll not die?
Prabhupada: Same thing. All the scientists, past, present-everyone is dying.
Indian guest or devotee: They will not die, then they will make themself to suicide, you know.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: It's a long one. "I have been looking for spontaneous generation for twenty years without discovering it. Now I do not judge it impossible, but what allows you to make it 'the origin of life'? You place matter before life, and you decide that matter has existed for all eternity. How do you know that the incessant progress of science will not compel scientists to consider that life has existed during eternity and not matter? You pass from matter to life because your intelligence of today cannot conceive things otherwise. How do you know that in ten thousand years one will not consider it more likely that matter has emerged from life?"
Pradyumna: Who's it from?
Prabhupada: Yes, matter has come from life.
Prabhupada: So we first of all protested that matter comes from life, not life comes from matter. So when you concluded, they were silent.
Prabhupada: So our triumph is ahead.
Prabhupada: Who?
Prabhupada: Organize...
Prabhupada: No, you can..., you have the right to speak. You are qualified scientist, all doctor. They must agree to hear you, cannot deny.
Prabhupada: So he's a mathematician and another physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.'s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, [laughs] I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first-or anybody-that life come from life, not from matter?
Gargamuni: I think we should make maybe a few plates just like they have shown the scientists, but a few plates of yourself with some quotations challenging these men.
Prabhupada: Our another challenge is they have never gone to moon planet. [laughs]
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, that's a problem now, Srila Prabhupada. [laughter] See, sometimes when we give lectures... Some time ago we gave in Gainesville. We were talking about life and matter. Then some people came, and they said..., they asked that question about the moon thing. So we said we were working on it. And...
Prabhupada: Another my challenge is that moon is beyond the sun. First planet is sun, and then moon. So if the sun is 93,000,000 miles and moon is above the sun 1,600,000, then how they can go to the moon planet in four days? It requires seven and a half months. That is my challenge.
Gargamuni: You mention also that "Sunday, Monday."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gargamuni: Sunday is first. It is the sun. Then Moonday, moon.
Prabhupada: In arcana also the...
Prabhupada: That's...
Prabhupada: So let us do something, [laughs] Krsna consciousness movement. We can meet the any scientist also.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: Actually we started looking some on this astronomy thing, on first about this Surya-siddhanta. Sadaputa is especially interested because he's a mathematician. So normally astronomy is subject of mathematics. So he found this copy in Princeton just recently, last month or so. And there we found that the idea is very similar to modern science in the Surya-siddhanta. But we heard that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada translated Surya-siddhanta, but we are not getting a copy of it. So he asked me to look in Calcutta, and some astrologers.
Prabhupada: He had some disciples, some astronomer. His name can be had from Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Ah! Mohini Sastri. Mohini Sastri. He was his disciple.
Pradyumna: I went to try... He's dead now.
Prabhupada: He is also.
Prabhupada: Mohini Sastri's son?
Pradyumna: His son. Samba...
Prabhupada: Who translated?
Prabhupada: He was also astronomer?
Svarupa Damodara: I think he was from Germany. He knew something about Sanskrit, but translation was just like to criticize those Indian, old Indian astronomers. Something like, very..., not even using even respectful words, but something very offensive sometimes, so we didn't bother to go through those books.
Prabhupada: It must be very old paper.
Pradyumna: Yes, very old.
Prabhupada: To copy in hand, how long it takes? Very big book?
Pradyumna: No. Not so big. And they also have that pandita who used to live with Bhaktivinoda? They had that toll, Sarasvati, that Sarasvati Catuspathi ... Bhaktisiddhanta... His name was... His books are also there, two, three books. They have published jointly Saras…"Bhakti Bhavan." Bhaktivinoda Thakura's house and reading room.
Prabhupada: So the scientists could not say anything.
Prabhupada: Anyway, you are meeting big, big scientists.
Prabhupada: That is our basic principle of knowledge, that every one of us is defective, so you cannot give us complete knowledge; it is not possible. We must receive knowledge from the perfect without defects.
Prabhupada: Defective, yes.
Prabhupada: So they do not challenge you, that "How your knowledge is perfect?" They do not challenge that?
Prabhupada: They can challenge like that, that "If our knowledge is imperfect, how your knowledge is perfect?" If they challenge like that, what you will answer?
[break]
Prabhupada: ...child is imperfect, but when the child says, "This is spectacle," and if we ask the child, "How do you know?" "Father told me," then it is perfect. He received the knowledge from the father, that "This is spectacle," so although he is imperfect child, he speaks perfect. That is our method. That statement is not imperfect. We cannot be perfect. That's not possible. But if we receive knowledge from the perfect, then our knowledge is perfect. So all right. Take prasadam. We should talk… [break]
Prabhupada: Accha?
Prabhupada: Yes, I have received. Got the blue card?
Prabhupada: What is the reason?
Prabhupada: Because you were challenging, maybe? But one thing is-I have got experience-because you took immigration from America, it was so difficult. If you had taken immigration outside USA, then it would have been easier. That was my case. When I was trying to get immigration from America, it was practically...
Prabhupada: Oh, to get immigration?
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prabhupada: But when we tried to get immigration from Montreal, I got it within three months. Of course, the Consulate General was a black man, and he appreciated my books very nicely. He immediately accepted.
Prabhupada: What is that job?
Svarupa Damodara: My job, my work, chemist, the instrument I work. Saying that... Must be written to the Federal Government, to the Labor Department, saying that there's nobody who would be able to do my job in the United States, qualified. Then the second condition is that by being employed myself, then nobody will be displaced. Any U.S. citizen will not be displaced by my employment. So those two conditions. And it has to be written by the university sponsor.
Prabhupada: So very difficult, that.
Svarupa Damodara: But they did it. After that, I have to get from India government saying that Indian government has no objection for me to be in the United States. So I have to get from Central Government, from the Ministry of Education, and I have to get one certificate from the passport office in Calcutta, Regional Passport Office. And I have to get one from Manipur Government, saying that Manipur Government has no objection for me to be in the United States. And the Manipur Government objected, that they want me back to Manipur. So there was some difficulty at the beginning. So I told them that "No, no, don't say that. Just say that you don't need me." [laughter] So they did it, letter, and I got all those letters. And that letter has to go to Indian Embassy. First of all it has to go to Indian Consulate in San Francisco. And San Francisco has to send a letter of recommendation to Indian Embassy in Washington. And then the Embassy has to send to Federal Government to the Labor Department in Washington, State Department, saying that "Such and such has this letter."
Prabhupada: So made it very complicated.
Prabhupada: They made it so complicated.
Svarupa Damodara: It's very difficult nowadays. So Rupanuga Prabhu was telling me that... Everybody was telling me in Washington when we had meeting that I will never get it, because they know that I am in Hare Krsna. So they're against Hare Krsna, the Federal Government, at this stage. So they're thinking that just because of that, I'll never get it.
Prabhupada: So our... The opposition is very strong now?
Svarupa Damodara: Ah, yes. They're trying their best. And personally also from outside, there are some friends, outsiders, but not in the movement, but those who are slightly favorable to the movement. They also have some comments about some of the techniques that we use, some of the methods that we use in saṅkirtana, in book distribution, things like that.
Prabhupada: They do not like it?
Prabhupada: Why? We cannot invite friend to join?
Svarupa Damodara: Yeah, things like that. In fact, some Indians, they telephoned. In Atlanta there are many Bengalis. They telephone me, and they are saying that "Why do you do that? You are already well known, and you can sell as you are. You don't need to be disguised. People will appreciate that way better than going something hidden, sort of cheating propensity idea." There's some truth in it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gargamuni: No, but many groups, they are dressing in Santa Claus.
Gargamuni: And people are more inclined to take your book or gift if it is Santa Claus during that time.
Prabhupada: So for selling we can take any trick.
Gargamuni: Yes, they all do it. Every... In Macy's department stores...
Prabhupada: It is a salesman's trick. That is allowed everywhere. If I can sell more books by some trick, I must take that. That is salesman's trick.
Gargamuni: They bring their own Santa Claus, and they give away small gifts just to encourage the people to buy big gifts. It's a big racket they have inside the department stores.
Svarupa Damodara: In fact, Rupanuga Prabhu abandoned completely the idea of this Santa Claus in Washington while we were having our meeting, stayed about a few days. And then he had this telephone call from distance, from outside, saying that "Tomorrow I'll shoot you. I'll kill you," things like that. They get this telephone call in the temple from outsiders, "If you come like that, in Santa Claus, we'll give you a bullet," like that. So Rupanuga completely abandoned this idea. So he said, "Tell what we are, be honest, and do as we have been doing." And in fact, devotees are doing, and they got more in the next morning, got more books sold just going as Hare Krsna, in Hare Krsna dress, instead of going as Santa Claus. So I think...
Prabhupada: So now it is stopped.
Gargamuni: That Santa Claus is only used for two weeks.
Prabhupada: So from next year we shall not do that.
Gargamuni: It came in the Calcutta newspaper, but it was not bad. It was not bad article. It was good article.
Prabhupada: And what is the...? "Do you believe that the Hare Krsnas, they are in...?"
Prabhupada: "...in Santa Claus?"
Gargamuni: I think people were more amused than they were angry.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is amusing.
Gargamuni: Yes. At least the newspaper article in the Statesman was very amusing. It did not criticize, because it mentioned that by wearing these suits we are able to distribute many literatures on God consciousness, which is the real meaning of Christmas. They wrote this in the States... So it was favorable.
Nanda-kumara: In Los Angeles there was some controversy, some trouble. So they had big signs that said "ISKCON," and they had a thing printed up that they put on the bucket that they were collecting with. It said, "Help us put the real spirit of God back into Christmas." And people appreciated that. It stated who we were and stated that...
Prabhupada: Against party, they take it.
Prabhupada: So on the whole, our temple activities are going nice?
Prabhupada: There is no hindrance on account of this counter propaganda?
Prabhupada: No, what is the position, Atlanta and Washington?
Prabhupada: John.
Prabhupada: Critical means they are taking this movement now seriously.
Gargamuni: Yes. It is coming up, because their sons and daughters are joining.
Prabhupada: Yes. Critical means our triumph.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hmm. That is nice. So that we are trying. We have got already books in the educated circles.
Prabhupada: That is... That you are. In our Institute you lecture.
Prabhupada: Able to...
Prabhupada: Yes. So when you are going to publish?
Prabhupada: And not yet finished?
Prabhupada: How many pages?
Prabhupada: How many pages it will be?
Prabhupada: Oh! [laughter]
Prabhupada: This is wanted.
Prabhupada: Three big scientists' working. [laughter]
Prabhupada: He was a student of psychology?
Pradyumna: Yes. Rupanuga was.
Prabhupada: Our Giriraja also.
Prabhupada: So Giriraja can also write one article.
Svarupa Damodara: Satsvarupa Maharaja and everybody can contribute articles, some sort of academic article, so we can reach the intellectual class with their format. But I talked about this with several Indians, the Indian scholars. They are... They think that it will be very powerful, especially our..., in Krsna consciousness movement. If we add that, then he said it's going to be very much more powerful.
Prabhupada: Yes. When we bring..., present scientific basis, it must be powerful. All right, let us...
Gargamuni: I think in America that we cannot say that the general public is against us, because the book sales are increasing. It is only when the book sales decrease...
Prabhupada: No... So how many pages these are?
Prabhupada: Life From Life, we are already advertising in our BBT list.
Svarupa Damodara: We plan to have our book about five hundred pages. And we should finish it by fall. We feel it's major work. The difficult part is that establish from science, comparative study... And we have finished that. Next stage is... It's not very difficult. It's about, they call, fossil, these bones. We're going to say something about it, but that's not much. Then conclusion...
Prabhupada: So you are scientist, devotee and ksatriya. [laughing] As ksatriya you'll force: "You must believe this, or I will kill you." [laughter] And as scientist, the convincing argument. And as devotee, Krsna will help you. That's all. Yuddhyasva mam anusmara [Bg 8.7]. That is Krsna's word. "Fight! And remember Me." That's all. Combination ksatriya, devotee and scientist. Very good combination. Ksatriya does not know beyond two things-victory or death. No third thing. That is ksatriya. In a fighting, if I do not gain victory, then I must die. Two things. That is ksatriya spirit. Whenever there is fight between the two ksatriya, one must die. That is last word. No compromise. Jarasandha and Bhima, fighting for twenty-eight days, in the evening they were friends, but the fighting went on until one is dead. That is ksatriya's fighting. Where is that spirit now? I think in Europe also there was the knights.
Gargamuni: Chivalry.
Prabhupada: Hmm. One of them must die. That is ksatriya spirit. No compromise. And it will go on until one is dead. That is chivalry. Chivalry?
Prabhupada: Accha? When?
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Gargamuni: In this letter they have asked for six persons, five including yourself. I think if we send a few more by vehicle, by car, vehicles, then we can bring maybe ten or twenty more, and we can have big programs. Five men are not enough.
Prabhupada: So do that. He'll do.
Gargamuni: So I can give the names. We need at least twenty men.
Prabhupada: So immediately do it.
Gargamuni: Yes. And you can say, "Five, plus one by plane." 'Cause even if we go, we have to bring books, and you cannot bring so many books on the plane.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, no.
Gargamuni: So we can bring these by road. There is a road there.
Prabhupada: So arrange for this.
Gargamuni: From Calcutta to Imphal by road we can go.
Prabhupada: So he'll take the party. So manage tomorrow.
Gargamuni: And we can carry all the books and everything by road.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Do that. [break].
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: Our Mayapur program finishes when?
Gargamuni: The last day is the eighth. And then to Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Eighth March?
Prabhupada: So when you expect to go there?
Prabhupada: So after Vrndavana we may not go? What is the wrong there?
Gargamuni: Yes. 'Cause when does monsoon start here? In June? Starts very early.
Gargamuni: So we have to go before. That gives us...
Prabhupada: So if just after Mayapur festival, if you go to...
Gargamuni: From Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pradyumna: You're going to go to Haridaspur after that? Or no?
Prabhupada: That we can go later on. This is very important. Manipur we want to make a very strong center, because it is Vaisnava state.
Gargamuni: And ksatriyas.
Prabhupada: Ksatriyas.
Gargamuni: We can raise an army over there...
Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes.
Gargamuni: ...to protect the temples from the demons.
Prabhupada: So in March, if we go...
Prabhupada: ...by the middle?
Prabhupada: Then we can arrange.
Prabhupada: Very nice. So make that arrangement.
Gargamuni: All right. And we can go by road.
Prabhupada: Yes. You go by road, and we go by plane. Or all of us, we can go by road. Is it possible? No.
Gargamuni: Well, the roads are not so good.
Prabhupada: Five hundred per head.
Prabhupada: So make that arrangement. We shall go. Very good.
Gargamuni: And maybe from there, we can... On our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.
Prabhupada: Shillong is Assam.
Gargamuni: In Meghalaya.
Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. [break]
Prabhupada: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight, and they will kill one another. You were at that time there?
Prabhupada: So you keep this letter and do the needful. [break] [end]
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