761114R2.VRN
761114R2.VRN
761114R2-Vrindavan [80:59 Minutes]
You say 'community project'
|
Indian man: [Transl. This is, as you have said that India is the source of sages and thoughtful personalities. And it had been their culture that they always gave proper guidance to the human society. But seeing the present situation one question keeps surfacing in the minds of the householders and that is the work that a saintly person or a sannyasi can do very easily is extremely difficult for a householder. Practical life. Generally all religious scriptures instruct that treat other's wife as mother...]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No sastras said so. [chuckles] Sastra never says you treat your wife as mother.]
Indian man: [Transl. Look, in practical life who knows how many people speak lies and how many people speak truth?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No, only a madman would call wife as mother. [chuckles]]
Indian man: [Transl. To another's wife.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. To another's wife, yes.]
Indian man: [Transl. To another's wife. What I mean to say is that for a householder to come any conclusion at the present day becomes very difficult. In day to day life he cannot stay aloof from the government laws, whereas a sadhu or mahatma has to worry about himself only. Whole day he can simply study Ramayana, Mahabharata or Gita. Neither he has to bother about government laws, nor worry about business or anything else.
[Transl. But for a grhastha, as you have rightly said that speak the truth as much as possible, behave properly with everyone and so on, but for grhasthas like us, what can they do when there is so much lies, so much cheating business is going on and the government is increasing its staff members to accumulate false prestige? And you already know how bad the lawers' profession is? If he gets a case in hand, whether the party has committed the murder or not, he would assure that don't worry I will relieve you of the charge. It is his profession to make you tell lies. So at the present situation how to tell the truth?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. The reason behind this is that he is not being taught the Bhagavad-gita. Everyone is ignorant about the knowledge of Bhagavad-gita. The Supreme Lord says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66] But they don't accept it. As far as grhasthas are concerned, Arjuna was a grhastha only. The Lord explained to him. He was a military man. He was neither a Vedantist nor a brahmana. He was a ksatriya warrior, a grhastha.
[Transl. He was present in the battlefield in order to bring back the kingdom which was taken away from him. He had all these problems. This you will agree. How he heard from the Supreme Lord and the Lord the Lord gave him certificate, bhakto'si [Bg 4.3], priyo'si me [Bg 18.65]. Answer? He was not a sadhu, not a sannyasi, not a Vedantist, not a brahmana, none of this. Before the battle he was a grhastha, politician, ksatriya and a warrior, and after the battle he did not renounce everything and take sannyasa?
[Transl. He remained the same. He continued to remain a ksatriya, a warrior, a politician. How then he became a devotee? Tell me? The Supreme Lord Himself is giving him a certificate bhakto'si, priyo'si me. This means we don't even know how to become a real devotee despite being a grhastha nor do we accept it. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. We want that we remain fools. Therefore this is the difficulty. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said while He was discussing with Ramananda Raya, Ramananda Raya was the Governor of Madras.
[Transl. And by caste he belonged to karana family whom we call as kayastha. He too was not a brahmana. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes from a high class brahmana family. He was a sannyasi, a learned scholar and everything. So He was inquiring things from Ramananda Raya. He placed Ramananda Raya in the post of a guru and put Himself in the position of a student. So Ramananda Raya was feeling embarrassed that "I am a grhastha, I don't belong any higher caste, I am a Governor, a politician. But the Lord is asking me. This is not proper. Rather I should be asking questions and get answers from the Lord. So when he was thus feeling embarrassed Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in order to encourage him, said "Look, don't feel embarrassed. The conclusion is kiba sudra kiba vipra, nyasi, kene naya yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya. [Cc Madhya 8.128]
[Transl. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's clear instruction. Whether one is a sannyasi, or a brahmana, or a sudra, or a grhastha or anything it does not make any difference. yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya. One who knows the truth of Krsna, the science of Krsna, he is a guru. There is no difficulty in understanding the science of Krsna. In the Bhagavad-gita the Supreme Personality of Godhead has revealed about Himself and Arjuna has heard everything. The Supreme Lord has given him the certificate also, bhakto'si priyo'si me. So if we follow him, not imitate him but follow him that how Arjuna was able to secure a certificate from Him.
[Transl. Bhakto'si priyo'si, how we will become dear to the Supreme Lord and how we will receive an opportunity to become devotee. One has to know this science. We don't know the science. And that science is present here-Bhagavad-gita. We neither study it nor behave accordingly. Therefore there is difficulty, otherwise to become a devotee or to make a connection with the Supreme Lord it does not depend on becoming a sannyasi, grhastha or sudra.
[Transl. He will attain supreme destination. Actually we have rejected it. The Supreme Lord has personally come to teach us, but we don't accept His teachings. That is why we are puzzled. You accept the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and follow them properly. There is no discrimination whether one is a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, grhastha, vanaprastha. No discrimination. You must know the science. Even now if someone is a doctor or an engineer nobody bothers to ask him what caste he belongs to. If he is an engineer he is an engineer.
[Transl. In the same way, you simply understand the science of Krsna it doesn't matter you remain a grhastha or a sannyasi, it is all right. We neglect that science. We make that mistake. Two plus two equals to four, that we don't accept. Two plus two equals to three some say, and some say it is five. This is rascaldom. Therefore we are failure. Two plus two equals four. If you take instruction of Bhagavad-gita, and if you apply in your life, then you're perfect. Never mind whether you are grhastha or sannyasa.
Prabhupada: [Transl. Okay. Go to that side as we have got place to stay.] [break]
Prabhupada: Hmm.
"Because of the impact on the ground of the legs of the demons and demigods and the wheels of the chariots, particles of dust flew violently into the sky and made a dust cloud that covered all directions of outer space, as far as the sun. But when the particles of dust were followed by drops of blood being sprinkled all over space, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky."
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Hari-sauri: Purport: "The cloud of dust covered the entire horizon, but when drops of blood sprayed up as far as the sun, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky. A point to be observed here is that although the blood is stated to have reached the sun, it is not said to have reached the moon. Apparently, therefore, as stated elsewhere in Srimad-Bhagavatam, the sun, and not the moon, is the planet nearest the earth. We have already discussed this point in many places. The sun is first, then the moon, then Mars, Jupiter and so on. The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles an hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible." [laughs]
Prabhupada: [chuckles] So my reason is all right?
Prabhupada: [Transl. To challenge the modern scientists has always been my… ]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What have they gained? Now they stopped trying. That's all.] Whatever Mars going? Finished.
Guest: [Transl. They tried for a few times to go to the moon, but which way? Such a huge moon, but no place there.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Where did they go in the first place? They couldn't go there. Its like] grapes are sour. Full of sand. [Transl. Where from the sand came? How can there be sand without water? Where there is river there is sand. Nobody questions like this. Sand is produced from the ocean. In the ocean there is salt and by some process it is transformed into sand. This is scientific. If there is sand there must be water.]
Guest: [Transl. certainly.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. And they say, no water. It means their deceit is being exposed.]
[break]
Alex Kulik [devotee businessman from Laguna Beach]: [describing plans for new San Diego temple] ...thirty-six thousand students, so it's in a very, very nice area, just for the type of people we'd like to reach, you know, intelligent. And also it's a... Actually, what it is, it's a motel that's had its, you know, it has no business there. It's surrounded by other more expensive...
Prabhupada: So there is one building within the land?
Alex Kulik: No, it's like...
Prabhupada: What is this?
Alex Kulik: Okay, here's a diagram here, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: This is the street right here, and you enter here, and there's buildings here, you know, for a restaurant.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Alex Kulik: Right here. We're going to make a...
Prabhupada: That is already there.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: And here you have the offices, where you can make an apartment, and here we have thirty units, small, about the same size as the rooms upstairs...
Prabhupada: Ah.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Alex Kulik: It's not luxurious, it's just small rooms. And here we have a small swimming pool.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Alex Kulik: It's not too big. And all these are fully grown trees with..., there's some palm trees here. And then in the back...
Prabhupada: Pictures for the trees are here.
Alex Kulik: Yeah, did you see the tree? Okay. In the back here, this is, we have fruit trees, different types of fruit trees like a...
Prabhupada: Oh, very, very good.
Alex Kulik: ...pomegranate, you know, and some peaches and plums.
Prabhupada: Pomegranate is a very nice fruit.
Alex Kulik: Yes. And this area right here is more or less empty and available for... These are small bushes here. These are small bushes. So we are proposing to construct a temple right about in here, then use the rest of the land for farming and growing flowers for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. You are destroying these trees.
Alex Kulik: Well, see these trees, they're not real tall all the way, there's...
Prabhupada: Oh, this is green also.
Alex Kulik: Yeah, this is greenery around here, and occasionally there's a big tree, and then along the back here's...
Prabhupada: Big trees are this side.
Alex Kulik: Yeah, exactly, and also in here around this area and around in here. And in the back here we have like a small desert garden with cactus and different things.
Prabhupada: It is desert?
Alex Kulik: No, it's not a desert, but that's the way this rear portion has been landscaped, you know.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Alex Kulik: It's made to look like a desert, but it's actually very lush, and it looks a lot bigger than two acres.
Prabhupada: Where things you cannot grow, you can keep cows. Eh?
Alex Kulik: I'm not sure if we can keep cows in there, because it's inside of the city, and sometimes they don't allow the cow within a certain zoning. And now the only problem we might run into with this is that it's not zoned right now for a church or a temple, but...
Prabhupada: Don't say "temple."
Alex Kulik: Excuse me?
Prabhupada: You say "community project."
Alex Kulik: Community project?
Prabhupada: Community project.
Alex Kulik: Oh, community project. Well...
Prabhupada: Don't say church.
Alex Kulik: Okay. But the thing is if... The first thing that it can be rezoned for is a church and a temple.
Prabhupada: There is no need of rezoning, because we are Krsna, Hare Krsna community. So wherever we live, we worship Krsna. It is not a public show; it is our own private worshiping Deity. I can keep Deity in my home, just like Christian deity, Mary, Jesus Christ, in the room. There is no objection.
Alex Kulik: I don't think there's any objection to that, but according to Gunagrahi... See, they had a similar problem in San Diego, like the government there doesn't approve too much of them, and each time they try to buy a nice piece of land, you know, somehow or other...
Prabhupada: That's why I say, "Don't call it temple."
Alex Kulik: Don't call it temple.
Prabhupada: No. "Community project."
Alex Kulik: Community project.
Prabhupada: Project. That's all.
Alex Kulik: Okay. I can tell them that. But he says...
Prabhupada: We are just establishing a community project. But because we are Hare Krsnas, so wherever we live, we worship Krsna, that's all. Don't say temple.
Alex Kulik: Don't say temple.
Prabhupada: No.
Jagadisa: A problem may come if they say, "But you invite people to come."
Prabhupada: Friends I must invite, for feast. This is our community project.
Hari-sauri: Once you're in there, then it's... In Melbourne we told them that it's just strictly private-it was going to be like a monastery, there was just going to be a few monks who were going to do our worship, like that. And then when we were in, we just had the Sunday Feast and everything, and everything was fine.
Alex Kulik: Well, actually, the way...
Prabhupada: Sathe sathyam samacaret That is that if the other is cheat, you become cheat. Why you should be honest? Sathe sathyam samacaret.
Alex Kulik: Well, in this case, actually I don't think there will even be a problem if we said temple. Because...
Prabhupada: That is your... I say, "Don't declare it a temple." It is our community, living quarters, residence, that's all. We live like this; our style of living is this. How you can...?
Indian guest: Just like the usual person was doing something at home.
Prabhupada: Yes. Don't say it is temple. That's all. [chuckles] Kill law by law. [Aiene phaṅki] ...and safest position is that you don't say it is a temple.
Alex Kulik: Well actually we're not coming on to them like we are, you know, Hare Krsnas or anything like that. We are going in karmi clothes.
Alex Kulik: According to the escrow we say that we want to build like some sort of a church. Now in the zoning laws for that particular area... Now if you want to rezone, the only thing that's allowed to rezone for is for churches and temples. They have it written.
Prabhupada: You can take help from Detroit. He knows very well. That was rezoned. You did it.
Jagadisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. He knows everything. That was a residential quarter. Now we have made it a temple.
Alex Kulik: So we...
Prabhupada: What is the process?
Jagadisa: Well, we had..., because we were dealing with Ford, the grandson of Henry Ford, because he was wealthy, he had a lawyer friend who had a connection in the zoning board, so...
Prabhupada: He influenced?
Jagadisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: But what was the law point? You cannot influence by...
Jagadisa: No, we... The point was that that particular property was secluded. By making it a multi-residential dwelling with a public worship facility there was no inconvenience to the neighbors. That was the main thing. We went around to all the neighbors in the neighborhood. We got them to sign a petition saying they had no objection to our holding meetings there and having multi-residential, and that was our strongest..., besides our connection with this lawyer, having the neighborhood support was our strongest weapon. And the neighbors all were very warm.
Prabhupada: The black people, they are simple. They are not so crooked. If they are satisfied...
Alex Kulik: Actually the neighbors around here, all along here are businesses on either side.
Prabhupada: Then they'll suffer?
Alex Kulik: Then there's no... Actually, even if we ask for rezoning, they cannot refuse us because according to their laws the only thing that this particular land can be rezoned for, number one on the list, is churches and temples. But...
Prabhupada: No, you do it, but if there is doubt you can say, "No temple."
Alex Kulik: Right, right.
Prabhupada: Don't take the name of a temple.
Alex Kulik: Right. This is a minor problem in this case. It used to be a major, but it's minor now.
Prabhupada: Community project. That's all. We are Hare Krsna community; it is our project. We live together, that's all.
Prabhupada: I think I went to San Diego.
Alex Kulik: Yes, about two years ago.
Prabhupada: Hmm. So...
Alex Kulik: You see...
Prabhupada: There is a big park, San Diego.
Alex Kulik: Balboa Park. You had one lecture there.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. So how far it is from the park?
Alex Kulik: About ten or fifteen miles. You see it is more in, away from the ocean, and it's located right in the middle of this college community where most of the residents are students of the university, and the university has 36,000...
Prabhupada: So you can get the chance of attracting students.
Alex Kulik: Oh, yes, yes, of course. This is..., a main thing there of the location is in being around the student community.
Prabhupada: San Diego seaside, I went. There are so many swimming clubs.
Alex Kulik: In La Jolla?
Prabhupada: The underneath, under, within water they're swimming.
Alex Kulik: Skin-diving, underneath the water.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian guest: [Transl. What is the name of the place?]
Prabhupada: San Diego.
Indian guest: San Diego. [indistinct]
Prabhupada: What is this?
Jagadisa: It's in California. San Diego, California.
Prabhupada: No, what's...
Alex Kulik: See, at the present moment the San Diego temple, they used to have two buildings, and they have been more or less evicted from the main building and they had to move the Deities to the residential quarters, and they had to move all the brahmacarinis out to another building.
Prabhupada: Oh, they have left that building?
Alex Kulik: Yeah, they left that building, the main building, and now the Deities are in the one over, the, which used to be the residential quarters, and it's just in a small room and it's very...
Prabhupada: Inconvenient.
Alex Kulik: Very inconvenient.
Prabhupada: So start this temple.
Alex Kulik: So this is in escrow now. It's already started. And it will take ninety days, and it all depends on the rezoning.
Jagadisa: The zoning has been applied for?
Alex Kulik: Yes, it's been applied for, and the chances of them refusing us is very slim.
Jagadisa: When is their next meeting?
Alex Kulik: I really couldn't say. I don't know, but it will be soon. There's one boy who's working on it. I forgot what his name is. I have a bad memory for names. But anyways, I and some friends of mine would like to construct a temple right here.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Alex Kulik: Right there, just...
Prabhupada: Do, according to your choice.
Alex Kulik: And we were thinking about a design like a large dome.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: You know, and then on each corner, kind of like... What do you call those?
Jagadisa: Cornice?
Alex Kulik: You know, with a little thing. And then right in the middle of the dome, we want to put like a big gold-not real gold, but you know, gold-colored-thing with flags.
Prabhupada: Flags.
Alex Kulik: Put flags on the top. Right. Exactly. This was our initial idea.
Prabhupada: So why don't you make a temple like this? You see?
Devotees: [indistinct-devotess talking together] ...attractive point.
Prabhupada: But then you cannot deny that it is not a temple.
Alex Kulik: Yeah, that's true. Actually...
Prabhupada: Best thing is this type temple.
Alex Kulik: Like here. With three domes. Well, see, it all depends on the cost. I have some cost estimates here that... We figured out it's somewhere between thirty and forty dollars per square foot to build.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: Now if we build a temple that's 6,500 square feet, which is quite a large size, that would come out to $260,000, and on down to 3,600 square feet, which would be about $144,000. I've collected about $100,000 on my own, and I have another person who promised somewhere between fifteen and twenty-five. And by the time that three or four months is up... Actually, we couldn't build until about six or seven months anyways, so by this time...
Prabhupada: That Krsna will give. Don't worry; He will give money.
Alex Kulik: Also another thing, this is... You may remember when you were in Los Angeles last time, Krsna-kanti and Mangalananda asked you if they could do this contemporary-style music with Krsna lyrics. So this is the very first copy. Actually, there's not much to see; it's just like any other album. This is the first test pressing.
Prabhupada: Yes, I can listen. Play it.
Alex Kulik: You would like to hear something?
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Prabhupada: Mm.
Prabhupada: Why don't you keep one record player?
Prabhupada: No, this time anyone comes, ask them to bring one record player. Japanese record player is very cheap.
Alex Kulik: Yeah, I think that's a good idea to have, because all these albums are coming out now.
Prabhupada: Between fifteen dollars, sixteen dollars.
Alex Kulik: Actually, cassette is more practical.
Prabhupada: All right.
Alex Kulik: Okay, this is... Actually, they're probably sent by [indistinct]. This is quite nice, too.
[Change of Heart" starts to play]
[indistinct discussion in background]
Prabhupada: Yes. Now if this album is played... [indistinct-album playing at same time] [break] Yes.
[background discussion about name of devotee]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Halva, puri, subji, two types of sweets, samosas and other things we distributed.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Then it must be a good feast.]
Bhagatji: [Transl. And whatever was left over we brought it back for all the devotees.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Really?] The epidemic is not going to stop. [laughs]
Alex Kulik: No. Prabhupada, I've been given a cow, in America.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: One of her cows, Premadhana. She's given it to us. We've had it now for five or six months, and we have built a nice area for her. We have ten acres of land for her to roam around on. She's very happy, very happy.
Prabhupada: So take your country in your[?] hand, Krsna conscious. Then surely we shall get the government. This is the prediction of a politician: "Krsna conscious, the Hare Krsna movement is spreading like epidemic. That I'm afraid within ten years they'll get the government."
Alex Kulik: I know.
Prabhupada: If the young men joins-immediately.
Prabhupada: Why you should not be? It must have. Hare Krsna party. They have got Democratic Party, Republican Party-another party, Hare Krsnas. Bas.
Prabhupada: No, Hare Krsnas. That will be nice. At least they will criticize Hare Krsna and chant Hare Krsna. [laughter] That's all. We want. helaya sraddhaya. It is said that, helaya sraddhaya. If we respect chanting, it is very good; even by neglecting chant, that is also good. Just like Ajamila, he chanted. He never meant "Narayana." He meant his son, but he got result. Ante narayana smrtih [SB 2.1.6]. He never meant that he's calling for Narayana. He forgot bhakti. But Narayana took care of it that "Now anyway he's chanting 'Narayana.' He must come to Vaikuntha."
Alex Kulik: This is what [indistinct] in San Diego.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Sixth Canto. Hmm?
Jagadisa: I think that's Sixth. [devotees discuss whether Fifth or Sixth]
Prabhupada: First part.
Devotee: [enters] [indistinct] Retired inspector of the schools, wants to do translation, Hindi. He wants to stay here. He wants to be...
Prabhupada: Who?
Devotee: He has come.
Prabhupada: Who?
Devotee: There is one gentleman, Mr. Saxena. He is retired inspector of schools from Rajasthan.
Prabhupada: Oh, he has come?
Devotee: Yes, shall I call him?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jagadisa: He wrote me a letter. He met one of our traveling parties in India, and he heard that I was here, and he was interested to..., in our educational program. So I invited him to come here, perhaps to teach Hindi, and so he's here.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Alex Kulik: Prabhupada, this is some honey; this is from my wife. And this is from Visakha, Yadubara's wife, from Los Angeles. She asked us to [indistinct]. And this is from all the devotees in San Diego. This is ghee.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Indian guest: Cow ghee?
Alex Kulik: Yes. They heard that you were in need of some ghee, so they have...
Prabhupada: Anyway...
Alex Kulik: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: Nice.
[pause]
Prabhupada: That's all right. [Transl. Yes Saxenaji, have we seen you there?]
Mr. Saxena: [Transl. I had been there in the function.]
Prabhupada: Oh, thank you very much. [Transl. Sit down. Where do you live now?]
Mr. Saxena: [Transl. Svamiji, now I am coming from Bharatpur. Actually I am a resident of Jaipur. One of my sons is a doctor in Bharatpur, eye specialist. Msc. He's in charge of eye department.] [break]
Prabhupada: ...acari prabhu jivere sikhaimu: you cannot teach others if you are not fixed yourself. Otherwise it will be useless. It is useless. Apani acari prabhu jivere sikaimu. If you are fixed up in principles, then you can teach others that principle. That will be effective. If you smoke, and if you tell others that "Don't smoke," that is useless. That is useless. [break] ...first of all give up this habits, bad habits, then you can teach, it will be effective.
Mr. Saxena: Quality of life.
Prabhupada: [aside:] You can prepare little that daliya, that's all.
Bhagatji: [Transl. Will you eat daliya?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Little bit.] Unfortunately, they do not try to understand the science of Krsna.
Mr. Saxena: Is religion a practical knowledge?
Prabhupada: Religion means... That I was discussing. Religion means the law given by God. That is religion. They do not know it. They do not know what is God, they do not know what is the words, or order, of God. Whole world is like that. They profess some religion, but religion means the law of God. But if they do not know what is God, then how he'll understand the law of God? That means there is no religion. All cheating. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo [SB 1.1.2]. The Bhagavata rejects all kinds of so-called religious system, accusing that they're all cheating. Cheating, all cheating. If you do not know God, what is the meaning of their religion? It is simply cheating. If you have accepted a style of religion without any understanding of God, then it is simply you have been cheated. And that is going on.
Mr. Saxena: Everywhere.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. [Transl. This religion, that religion, that religion. You ask him what is religion and what is God? He cannot answer. Then what is the use?]
Mr. Saxena: I have been to all these four corners of India-Badarikasrama, Ramesvaram, Jagannatha Puri and Bhet Dvaraka-and he told me what they say, Visvavarupa Saṅkaracarya, he's in Puri Saṅkaracarya, and that was a nice asrama.
Mr. Saxena: No, in Laksmana Jhula, Svargasrama. Then there is Paramartha Niketan. Paramanandaji is the Mahamandalesvara, is his title. And about 800 rooms in that Paramartha Niketan.
Prabhupada: Eight hundred?
Mr. Saxena: Eight hundred rooms. Very big temple, and the daily income is about more than 1500 rupees per day, donation. I still get from three months. His speech is at nights, their sannyasis. But if you see that practical life, awful. You realize all this tirthas, what you call? They are no more tirthas now. All in most case use that word shopping centers, what we call. I have been to the Sivananda Ashram. Some Cidanandaji is there. Sivanandaji is no more. When I went to Yoganiketan, there is one Yogesvarananda...
Prabhupada: Cidananda.
Mr. Saxena: Cidananda is there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Mr. Saxena: He is a disciple of Swami Sivananda, Divine Life Society.
Prabhupada: He is dead now?
Mr. Saxena: No, Sivananda is dead.
Prabhupada: Not.
Mr. Saxena: Cidananda is the in-charge of that institute, Divine Life Society. There is another, Yogesvarananda. There is Upaniketan trust. They are having three years' course for regular yoga. And there is Saṅkaracarya Nagar, Mahesh Yogi, Transcendental Meditation. How to get samadhi. I lived there for fifteen days, tried to get something out of that. Everywhere I found there is no... We are after peace. There is no peace there.
Alex Kulik: Prabhupada, you say that religion is the law of God. So that means there can only be one religion.
Prabhupada: Yes. God is one, law must be for everyone. Yes.
Alex Kulik: So all others are just contaminated.
Prabhupada: No, if they follow the rules, God, God said that "You just surrender unto Me."
Alex Kulik: So natural laws.
Prabhupada: This is the religion. God says that "You surrender unto Me." This is religion. So if one does not know what is God and where to surrender, then where is religion? Is it wrong for God to say that "You surrender unto Me"? Can you say like that?
Mr. Saxena: How? How can you say?
Prabhupada: If God is the supreme, He has the right to say like that.
Mr. Saxena: Of course. Of course.
Prabhupada: Just as the government can say that "Must obey." So if the government can say this, the head of the supreme government, if He says that "You surrender," what is wrong there?
Mr. Saxena: Nothing wrong.
Prabhupada: And that is religion. Simple-two words. Unfortunately, they want to deny God. They take the place of God, all these Mayavadis. Anandam, mostly. So that is rascaldom. How you can take the position of God?
Mr. Saxena: Nobody.
Prabhupada: But they want to take the position of God. "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God." This is they are claiming.
Mr. Saxena: Bhagavan Rajneesh.
Prabhupada: So many rascals. Why Rajneesh? There are many other.
Mr. Saxena: There are others, Satya Sai Baba, and so many others.
Prabhupada: This is going on. What? People also do not ask, that "How you become God?" That's also so foolish. They accept any rascal as God. That Rajneesh, what he is? He advertises "Bhagavan," and there are many rascals, they accept him. What he has done? [Transl. These people mislead others.]
Mr. Saxena: How to stop it, then?
Prabhupada: Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped? If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat. It is very...
Mr. Saxena: But Swamiji, mostly educated persons, Ph.D, D.Litt., M.A., postgraduates, they are the followers of this.
Prabhupada: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mayayapahrta-jnana [Bg 7.15]. They are supposed to be very learned, but actually they're fools, mayayapahrta-jnana. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.
Prabhupada: He does not know. We have got the definition of God:
Aisvaryasya samagrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth; viryasya, all strength; all faith, yasasah; all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Krsna is concerned, He showed all these things. Aisvaryasya... For example, Krsna married 16,000 wives, and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife, ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband. That is their ambition that He fulfilled, although He married 16,108 wives. This is aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya. This so-called rascal Bhagavan, who has shown this? Why shall I accept this cheap God? Show me something that you are God. Seven-years-old Krsna, He lifted the Govardhana hill. [Transl. Can anyone lift a 200 kilos of stone slab? Then why are they accepting such asses as God? They don't even know what is God. Mayayapahrta-jnana. They continue to remain fools. Ideal of God] there is, but they have no knowledge to compare with the idea of God. So far knowledge is concerned, Bhagavad-gita, left by Krsna, it is adored all over the world. Especially nowadays we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and millions of copies we are selling. Now we are advertising... Where is that picture? Million, 1.5 million.
Alex Kulik: 1.5 million copies.
Prabhupada: Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, up to date since 1970, we have sold 1.5 million.
Alex Kulik: And every day we sell more.
Prabhupada: Hah, yes. Our, these Krsna consciousness books, we are selling daily five to six lakhs of rupees. All over the world. I have estimate. That religious book [Transl. As soon as people hear religious books, immediately they hesitate. Philosophy classes are being closed.] It is full of religion and philosophy; still they are selling.
Mr. Saxena: That is an achievement.
Prabhupada: We have got, not only in West..., outside India; in India we have got standing order from all universities, libraries and many other places. Complete standing order value is 40,000 rupees.
Mr. Saxena: This is one aspect, of course, appreciable, but another aspect is that of teaching. That should be...
Prabhupada: Teaching is going on.
Mr. Saxena: I mean for teaching, too. As far as books...
Prabhupada: Several centers, hundred centers.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, there should be centers too, could give right interpretation to all these things. Because interpretation means..., everybody is not in contact with Sanskrit.
Prabhupada: Word-to-word meaning. You have seen our books?
Mr. Saxena: I have not seen this.
Mr. Saxena: Now you prepare us to go out.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Mr. Saxena: You prepare us and give us some inspirational power so that we may go out and teach all these things to those persons. First we should be able enough.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jagadisa: [showing book] Sanskrit, English transliteration, word for word.
Mr. Saxena: I see.
Mr. Saxena: Thank you, thank you, thank you. You must have also this missionary spirit.
Bhagatji: [Transl. Would you like to take anything else other than daliya?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That's all. Did you bring samosas?]
Bhagatji: [Transl. No I didn't bring any samosa.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Okay.]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Should I get some from the shop?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No.]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Should I prepare them?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No.]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Should I cook some salty preparation for you?]
Mr. Saxena: So I am at your disposal now.
Prabhupada: Yes. You give him one single room. So we have given word-to-word meaning, translation, purport. This book also we are selling, millions.
Mr. Saxena: I see.
Prabhupada: We have published the small book and big book, eighty-four.
Mr. Saxena: Eighty-four. In that film I saw that how those foreigners, they are working in the press and preparing all those books and sending abroad. I have seen that film. The only request is this, that you once make us away from this samsaya. Samsayatma vinasyati. There should be no samsaya, and we people who are...
"There is govindakhyam haritanum, standing in kesitirtho 'pakanthe, with flute and smiling, and with the moonshine it has become..., He has become very, very bright. So, but don't see, don't see Him." "Why?" "Provided you have the desire no more your association with so-called society, friends. If you have got desire to enjoy society, friendship and love of this world, then don't see Him." The purport is that anyone who sees Krsna actually, he loses interest in this. So therefore we must increase our interest in Krsna, then automatically.
Mr. Saxena: [Sanskrit]
Prabhupada: Ma preksisthastava yadi sakhe bandhu-saṅge 'sti raṅgah. If you want to enjoy the company of your society, friendship and love, then don't see. It will be finished. For this reason they are now bringing charges against us that we are spoiling these young men by brainwash. There is great opposition in the United States to our movement, that we are spoiling these young men by giving some speculation, controlling over their mind, and simply injecting some ideas in their brain-brainwash.
Mr. Saxena: [Transl. There is a poem in which it says "There is only one mind. Keep it engaged. Engage it in devotional service of Hari and thereby decrease its absorption in sense gratification." So we have got to divert our mind from there.] "If by worshiping stone one achieves Hari then I will worship the hill." Is your quote belongs to the writer of this?
Prabhupada: Who said this?
Mr. Saxena: I don't remember.
Prabhupada: Then it is very popular phrase.
Mr. Saxena: [Transl. If by worshiping stone one achieves Hari… I think there is another line to it. Perhaps there he reflected something else.]
Prabhupada: No. The thing is anyone who may accept, that means he did not believe in the Deity worship. That is a fact. So how a real devotee can condemn Deity worship?
Mr. Saxena: Yes.
Mr. Saxena: Naraki.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Mr. Saxena: I think now you require rest. I hope I've not strained...
Devotee: [indistinct] requires rest.
Mr. Saxena: [indistinct] unjustice to put into so much strain during your rest hours. Thank you Svamiji. I will know the timetable?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jagadisa: I will give you.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, you will give me. So I'll keep this one for my room.
Prabhupada: No, you cannot keep. This is a sample.
Mr. Saxena: Accha.
Prabhupada: Pictures you can get, not...
Mr. Saxena: Ah, yes, yes, it makes no difference. Your preachings are more than pictures.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Devotee: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Jaya.
[indistinct]
|