750412R1.HYD

Prabhupada: ...nanyat. Na anyat. [Bg 7.7] So this is going on. And where is surrender? If you don't believe in Krsna, don't surrender to Krsna, then what is the meaning of this surrender? This is going on. Our..., one Swamiji, is there in Bombay, Chinmayananda. He is a big speaker in Bhagavad-gita, and he has constructed temple-Siva-liṅga, the genital of Lord Siva. Just see.

Mahamsa: He said he has translated... His interpretation of Krsna is that this "Krsna means black. Black is ignorance. So Krsna is ignorance."

Prabhupada: Just see.

Indian man (1): I think one of the best persons in Madras who is translating the Prita-Gita [?], isn't it? Chinmayananda Swami.

Indian man (2): Chinmayananda?

Indian man (1): Yes. I have heard it.

Indian man (2): Ramana Maharshi has the...

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi was a great man.

Prabhupada: Ramanuja bhasya is a fact.

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi?

Prabhupada: Ramana Maharshi? No, he did not.

Indian man (1): The Ramana Maharshi is actually a... Read Bhagavad-gita. He requested you, "You should always read it."

Prabhupada: "Always read it," but he never preached about Krsna.

Indian man (1): Eh?

Prabhupada: But he never preached about Krsna. He may be always reading, but he did not know what is Krsna. He never spoke that "Krsna is the Supreme Lord." Never spoke. So what is the use of reading?

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi?

Prabhupada: Ramana Maharshi, yes, I am speaking of Ramana Maharshi. He never preached about Krsna's superexcellent position, never preached. This is going on. Everyone is taking advantage of Bhagavad-gita and he's preaching in his own way, foolish way. "Own way" means foolish way. This is going on. You cannot... Suppose you have got your philosophy, but you cannot take my book and preach your philosophy. If you have got philosophy, you write your philosophy. Why do you take advantage of my book and misinterpret? This is cheating. Because my book is very popular, you take advantage of my book and preach your own nonsense philosophy. This is going on. If you want to smoke ganja: hemp, you smoke in your own hand. [example from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's "Upakhyane Upadesa"] Why you capture my hand and smoke? What is this? So the ganja-smelling will be in my hand, not in your hand. This is going on..

Why do they take advantage of Bhagavad-gita and preach their nonsense philosophy? That is our protest. You preach your nonsense philosophy-we have no objection-but don't touch Bhagavad-gita. This is our Krsna consciousness movement. What is the... Do you think it is honesty that you want to preach something of your own philosophy and you take advantage of my book and mislead others? Is that very good, honest business? This is going on. This is going on, very dangerous position. In our country, and what to speak of other countries, all these svamis, yogis and politicians and scholars, they are doing like this. Very dangerous position. Why should you touch Bhagavad-gita? You speak, you preach your own philosophy. There are so many philosophies. But our only objection is that "Why should you preach your nonsense philosophy through Bhagavad-gita?" Do you think it is right?

Indian man (1): It's not right.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (1): It's not right.

Prabhupada: Yes. That you should understand.

Indian man (2): To not believe Krsna and preaching Bhagavad-gita...

Indian man (1): The thing is, Ramana Maharshi did preach Bhagavad-gita. He was advised so he kept quiet.

Prabhupada: Why should he kept quiet if he has read Bhagavad-gita?

Indian man (3): No. But, say, it's like this. Man who has understood philosophy of Bhagavad-gita probably will not attach much importance later whether it's Krsna, Siva or somebody else, once he has reached the supreme state.

Prabhupada: No, if Krsna... Krsna says that "I am the supreme..."

Indian man (3): Yes, He says...

Prabhupada: So if you read Bhagavad-gita, then you must accept Krsna as the Supreme. Otherwise, what is the use of...?

Indian man (3): The thing is nobody is denying that Krsna is not Supreme. Just because somebody doesn't pronounce the name of Krsna, that doesn't mean that...

Prabhupada: That means he does not accept Krsna as Supreme. Therefore he does not pronounce. That is the... If he understands that Krsna is Supreme, he should... Just like we have understood. We are chanting always, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna... This is understanding, not, not... If you... Krsna says, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg 9.14]. That is Krsna. Satatam kirtayanto mam: "Always chanting about Me."

Indian man (3): Yeah, but the thing is...

Prabhupada: There is no "but." This is the instruction of Krsna. You have to accept it. Otherwise, you don't read Bhagavad-gita. That's all.

Indian man (3): The question is...

Prabhupada: It is, it... There is no question of "but." Krsna says that man-mana bhava mad bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. If you do not do that, then what is the use of your reading Bhagavad-gita? Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam saranam vraja, [Bg 18.66] mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. [Bg 7.14] If you do not follow these instructions of Krsna, then where do you..., why do you waste your time reading Bhagavad-gita, and mislead others? That is our protest. All these misleaders... Perhaps, throughout the whole world, it is the first time-we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. We are the only institution in the world that we are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is, and people are liking it. Before that, for the last two hundred years, so many svamis, yogis and..., they tried to preach Hindu philosophy, Vaisnavism, not a single person was a devotee of Krsna, not a single person. Now you see so many young men. Why? Why this difference? Because we did not present Bhagavad-gita adulterated. Presented as it is, that's all.

What is the use of preaching adulterated things? Everyone wants that appeals as it is. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gita as it is. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. We are preaching the same thing-"Always think of Krsna. Chant Hare Krsna. You remember Krsna always." This is the simplest process. You see all these young boys, they are chanting Hare Krsna. And they are becoming purified from the mode of our life. And these svamis and yogis preached so many years, not a single person was purified. They were drinking; they were having sex. How they can be purified? And in India even, these things are going on, the land of Bhagavad-gita, the land of Krsna. If you want to read Bhagavad-gita, you take it. You follow it. Then everything will be done. Ksipram bhavati dharmatma sasvac-chantim nigacchati [Bg 9.31].

Api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak [Bg 9.30]. These things are there. You may be fallen, downtrodden, but if you take to Krsna's instructions, then ksipram bhavati dharmatma, very soon you'll become... Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg 9.31]. These things are there. And nobody is serious to take to Krsna consciousness. They'll talk all nonsense, but he'll not take to Krsna consciousness. This is going on.

So our task is very difficult, and especially all these prohibitive rules: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or chewing pan. So who will accept this philosophy? It is very difficult. Nobody can. Unless he is very serious about Krsna, nobody will take. They have not taken. These principles are our Indian principle. Striyas-suna-pana dyutah yatra papas catur vidhah. [SB. 1.17.38] But who is taking this? Now they are becoming expert in intoxication, drinking wine. You see. This is India's position. In Europe, America, they do that, because there was no such philosophy. But India... Here it is said, yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya karmanam [Bg 7.28].

That, nobody's interested. Everyone is doing all sorts of sinful activities. And Krsna says, yesam tu anta-gatam papam-he can understand Krsna. But nobody is prepared to give up sinful activities. And how he'll understand Krsna? Krsna is not very easy to be understood. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg 7.3]. One who is siddha, perfect, yatatam api siddhanam... [Bg 7.3]. Out of many millions of siddhas, one can understand Krsna. This is... These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gita. But nobody cares for that. He lives in his own way, and he has become a big authority, that's all. This rascaldom is going on. Only these few European and American boys, they have taken my words seriously. And therefore, with their help, Krsna consciousness is moving. Otherwise, where is Indian? You are young men. If I say, "You come and join us," you won't do it. But they have done it.

Indian man (3): I have got lot of...

Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone has got lot of responsibility. I know. But Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam saranam vraja. That is Krsna's demand. Everyone has got a lot of responsibility.

Indian man (3): I don't say responsibility.

Prabhupada: Then?

Indian man (3): I say they have got a lot of bhakti towards Krsna, because in the house, all of us are...

Prabhupada: Then preach Krsna's philosophy. That is Krsna's order.

Guest (3): Daily we celebrate that Radha-kalyana. [the divine wedding ceremony of Krsna and Radha]

Prabhupada: Why you play Radha-kalyana? Preach Krsna's philosophy. Why do you go to Radha? First of all try to understand Krsna. Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita has never said about Radha. That is very confidential. So why do you jump to Radha? Has Krsna said anything about Radharani in the Bhagavad-gita?

Indian man (3): Even in the Bhagavatam you don't see the name of...

Prabhupada: No, Radha... There, Bhagavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhagavata there is no Radharani." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna has never said about His vrndavana-lila. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Krsna. That is Bhagavad-gita. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politician, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Krsna's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Radharani? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Krsna, and you want to understand Krsna's dealings with Radharani. That is very confidential. Radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini-saktir asmat . You have to understand Krsna, then His pleasure potency, hladini-sakti.

The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardously, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jnanam me paramam guhyam yad vijnana-samanvitam. [SB 2.9.31] Yad vijnana samanvitam. Jnanam te 'ham sa-vijnanam pravaksyami anasuyave, yaj jnatva na anyaj jnatavyam mam avasisyate... [Bg 7.2].

[break] And others will support, "Yes. Whatever you think, it is all right. It is all right." And he will think, "Yes, whatever I am thinking, it is all right." You see? But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [Mundaka Upanisad 1.2.12]. If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijnana, tad vijnanam, gurum evabhigacchet: you must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty. Everyone is thinking, "I am free," although he is pulled by the ear by nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg 3.27].

"You have done like this. Come on, here. Sit down." This is going on, prakrti. Ahaṅkara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg 3.27]. The rascal, befooled by his false ego, he is thinking, "I am everything. I am independent." Those who are thinking like that, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gita, ahaṅkara vimudhatma. By false ego he is bewildered, and thinking, "What I am thinking is all right." No, you cannot think in your own way. You must think as Krsna says, then you are right. Otherwise, you are thinking under the spell of maya, that's all. Tribhir guna-mayair bhavair mohita, nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam [Bg 7.13]. Mayadhyaksena prakrti suyate sa-caracaram [Bg 9.10].

These things are there. Read Bhagavad-gita thoroughly, follow the rules and regulation, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, "This is also right, that is also right," then you are not in the right path. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not be done. What Krsna says, that is right. That should be the judgment. Otherwise you will be misled.

So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe very small number, but ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasa [Canakya Pandita]: if there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Krsna philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light. What is the use of millions of stars with no light? That is Canakya Pandita's advice: varam eka putra na ca murkha-satan api. One son, if he is learned, that is sufficient. Na ca murkha-satan api. What is the use of hundreds of sons, all fools and rascals? Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasa. One moon is sufficient to illuminate. There is no need of millions of stars. Similarly, we are not after many millions of disciples. I want to see that one disciple has understood Krsna's philosophy. That is success. That's all. Krsna says, yatatam api siddhanam, kascid vetti mam tattvatah [Bg 7.3]. So, first of all, to become siddha is very difficult job. And then, yatatam api siddhanam: there is still difficult job.

So Krsna philosophy is little difficult to understand. If they are understanding so easily, that is not understanding. It is easy; it is easy if you accept Krsna's words. It is very easy. What is the difficulty? Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakta, mad-yaji mam namaskuru: "Always think of Me." So where is the difficulty? You have seen Krsna's picture, Krsna's Deity, and if we think Krsna, where is the difficulty? After all, we have to think something. So instead of something, why not think Krsna? Where is the difficulty? But he does not take seriously. He has to think so many things except Krsna. And Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakta. There is no difficulty to take to Krsna consciousness. Not at all. But people will not take it, that is the difficulty. They will argue simply. Kutarka [fallacious logic]. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakta. Where is the argument against it? You are saying that they may not think of Krsna, they may not say about Krsna. And Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakta. This is argument, this is not philosophy. Philosophy is there, direct: "You should do like this," that's all. You do it and get the results. You go to purchase something, the price is fixed up, you pay the price and take it. That's all. Where is argument? If you are..., if you serious about that thing, you may pay price and take it.

That is the advice of Srila Rupa Gosvami: krsna-bhakti rasa-bhavita-matih kriyatam yadi kuto 'pi labhyate [Cc Madhya 8.70]. If you can purchase somewhere the thinking of Krsna, krsna-bhakti rasa-bhavita mati... That is, we have translated into "Krsna consciousness." If you can purchase this consciousness, Krsna consciousness, somewhere, immediately purchase it. Krsna-bhakti rasa-bhavita-mati, kriyatam, just purchase, yadi kuto 'pi labhyate, if it is available somewhere. And if I have to purchase, then what price? Tatra laulyam ekam mulam. Na janma-kuto 'pi labhyate. If you want what is the price, he says the price is your eagerness. And that eagerness, to obtain it takes many millions of births. Why you want Krsna? Just like the other day I said that if one has seen Krsna, he will become mad after Krsna.

[indistinct aside comment by devotee]

Devotee: Day before yesterday.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the sign. These boys are certified in their own country by the Christian priests that "These boys are our boys. They were never coming into church, they were never interested about God, and now they are mad after God. What is this?" Because that is the price only to purchase Krsna: to mad after Him-"Where is Krsna?" He radhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-suno kutah. "Where You are? Where You are?" Sri-govardhana padapa-tale kalindi-vane kutah. "Are You under the valley of Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Yamuna? Where You are?" Ghosantav iti sarvato vraja-pure. That was their Krsna consciousness, simply wondering "Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna?" Ghosantav iti sarvato pure khedair maha-vihvalau. Madlike, vihvalau. Vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-go... [Sri Sad-gosvamy-astaka 8]

This is, this price wanted, then you can get Krsna, you can understand Krsna. It is not so cheap. Anyone can comment on Krsna whimsically, and he becomes a devotee. That is not possible. That is going on. "I can interpret in my own way." Krsna says, mam ekam. And he says... Somebody is taking Krsna is black, somebody is taking Krsna as something else. Who says Krsna is black? Who told me?

Mahamsa: Chinmayananda.

Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna means "black." Sata kanda ramayana pade sita kara baba. [Bengali proverb.] One has studied all the Ramayana, seven cantos, seven khandas, and he is asking, "Whose father is Sita?" Sita is a feminine, and the Ramayana expert is asking, "Whose father is Sita?" This is their education. They are becoming big lecturer on Bhagavad-gita, he has understood Krsna means "black," that's all. And people are following blindly. Big svamiji is speaking.

Indian man: Can we...er...His form was black or black body?

Mahamsa: Krsna means, actually in Sanskrit, one of the meanings of the word Krsna...

Indian man: That is...

Prabhupada: Krsna is all-attractive, that will not he'll not explain. In the Brahma-samhita, it is said, asitambuda-sundaraṅgam kandarpa-koti-kamaniya-visesa-sobham [Bs 5.30]. Asitam, sundaram: He is blackish, but He is so attractive, more attractive than many millions of Cupid.

Indian man: [Transl. I studied his...What is called ? That Cinmayananda. He only said that His body was black.]

Prabhupada: No, no. Why you should commit offense like that? It is a great offense to decry Krsna.

Indian man: [Transl. In some school his lecture was going on and there I heard. He did not...] ...describe Him as blackish or black.

Prabhupada: But why does he say Krsna means black?

Indian man: Krsna means black, [Transl. Even in Sanskrit...] Somebody questioned him: "What is Krsna means?" Then apart from this, Sanskrit reply he gave: "Krsna means black also."

Prabhupada: So why did he not say Krsna means all-attractive?

Indian man: As far as Krsna's features are concerned, we know it is described as black. He said that six years back when he was speaking at Vidyananda school.

Mahamsa: The last time we had come here, I had come to just see on the first day what he says. So on the first day he said that "Now we'll have a gita-jnana yajna," and he said, "We will take the slokas which are suitable, and which slokas are not suitable..."

Prabhupada: Just see.

Mahamsa: "...we'll reject those slokas."

Prabhupada: Not suitable.

Mahamsa: I heard that with my own ears. He said...

Indian man: From Bhagavad-gita?

Mahamsa: Yes. He said, "We will take the slokas which are suitable, and which are not suitable, we'll reject those slokas."

Prabhupada: Just see. He is to judge which is suitable, which is not suitable. Just see this foolishness. Chinmayananda or any ordinary person, he is to judge which sloka is suitable, which is not suitable. That means he is more than Krsna. Krsna has spoken something unsuitable-which he can judge. This is the position.

Indian man: I believe that in another sense whatever is written, we should take the sweet from the literature...

Prabhupada: There is no sweets...

Indian man: ...and if there are some...

Mahamsa: Everything is sweet in Bhagavad-gita.

Indian man: ...the other part is there, you don't adopt that other part. That meaning might be.

Prabhupada: No. Other part, there is no other part. There is only one part. Just like Krsna says that,

So there is no other part. It is direct meaning. If anyone who has not surrendered to Krsna, he is either duskrtinah, mudhah, naradhamah, mayayapahrta-jnana, asurim bhavam.

Indian man: Don't adopt the Duryodhana part. Don't adopt the part of death.

Indian man (2): Dhrtarastra and others.

Indian man: Yes. It might be...

Mahamsa: He was just going to the slokas. He said he will not accept slokas which are..., we can accept; those which we cannot accept we will...

Prabhupada: Reject.

Mahamsa: ...we will go for the next one.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Mahamsa: That was the reference. He was saying, "Now from today onwards, I will start on this chapter and we will go on to these slokas." He was referring to the slokas.

Prabhupada: Now Krsna has written Bhagavad-gita..., not written, has spoken Bhagavad-gita, and He is speaking to me, and I have to judge which is suitable? This is..., is that my position?

Indian man: Perhaps what happens here...

Prabhupada: No "perhaps." He says that "What is suitable, we accept. And not suitable, reject." Now who will judge which is suitable and which is not suitable? That is the question.

Mahamsa: He will.

Indian man: Here when he comes just for one day or ten days and he sits in the evening.

Prabhupada: No, what is your answer to this?

Indian man: That is what I'm answering.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: I was just saying that... What he does, each day he takes one sloka, and just goes on giving discourse for an hour or whatever...

Indian man (2): Expressing the meaning...

Indian man: ...forty-five minutes only he speaks after his illness. And then during the each tape is recording and all that is done then some requests come for some particular sloka or a particular canto. Then he starts speaking, and during the course… now we are sitting here, and we must have discussed, a lot amongst the followers, he just has his discussion. "Now this canto or this sloka, we will take and we will discuss."

Prabhupada: No, I have read some of his...

Indian man: ...because his Gita is there, all slokas and translations. Now they are putting in the...

Prabhupada: He has said somewhere, I don't particularly know, "The Indian priests think like that."

Tamala Krsna: In his Gita, in the verse that describes how to meditate on the formless, he states that although it says in the Bhagavad-gita that it is very difficult to understand the formless aspect, he says this is true five thousand years ago, but now it is no longer true.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Tamala Krsna: I have read in his Gita.

Indian man: Five thousand years ago it must have been true, but now it is not.

Prabhupada: No, no. There is the verse, kleso 'dhikataras tesam avyakta-sakta-cetasam [Bg 12.5]. So in explaining that sloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gita can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Krsna if it is changeable like material things? Then what is the authority of Krsna? Is it changeable?

Indian man: [Transl. Nobody can change it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But, he says, it has changed because five thousand years have passed!]

Indian man (2): [Transl. He should remove whimsical meanings.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is going on!]

Indian man: It is the interpretation of the...

Prabhupada: Why interpretation?

Indian man: [Transl. Interpretation...You have to take the correct meaning, no.]

Prabhupada: Interpretation... First thing is that why interpretation? If the meaning is straight, just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah [Bg 1.1]. And someone is interpreting, "Dharma-ksetre means this body," why this interpretation? Eh? The Dharmaksetra, Kuruksetra is still existing; the station is there. People are going as dharmaksetra. Kuruksetre dharmam acaret. [Veda] This is the Vedic instruction, that everyone should go to Kuruksetra and perform ritualistic duties. That is being done, and it is written, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg 1.1]. Why interpretation?

Indian man: [Transl. Oh, that is just showing off his learning.]

Prabhupada: That's all. [Transl. Not learning, it is his rascaldom. This is cheating! This is going on.]

Indian man: [Transl. You can say that, but for us it is difficult to challange.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Learning!] You are more than Krsna? You are so..., you have got the audacity to speak more than Krsna?

Indian man: [Transl. They interpret like the five senses are the five Pandavas...That means the whole scheme was based on the body. That's what they talk about.]

Prabhupada: The interpretation... [Transl. These things will not yield anything.]

Indian man: [Transl. And the source of all this is, India!]

Indian man (2): [Transl. I also heard a similar interpretation on the word "Dharmaksetra." But at the end the word "Mama" comes, mama dharma, dharma mama. That means no matter how much you interpret Bhagavad-gita at the end it is clearly explained what is "My dharma." This is also an interpretation! Which means there is no connection between His own words then and His words now?]

Srutakirti: Srila Prabhupada? We have to go. It's quarter to seven.

Prabhupada: We are discussing the same thing, we go or not go. [laughter]

Srutakirti: There will be several thousand. Many people.

Prabhupada: [Transl. These things you all try to understand.] You are a young man, therefore I am requesting you: don't be misled by these blind leaders. Take Bhagavad-gita as it is, and you'll be happy.

Indian man: [Transl. Apply each word on your own life and you will...]

Indian man (2): [Transl. You are intelligent.]

Indian man: [Transl. You just read it and live it.]

Prabhupada: The meaning is clear, very clear. There is no question of interpretation.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [end]