701107R1.BOM

Prabhupada: These are also done within these five years.

Guest (1): And that, too, in the foreign countries, to establish that, it is...

Guest (2): Yes, it's a wonderful thing. I was all the while imagining, imagining...

Prabhupada: So I went in USA without any sponsor. No, I... That is the... One gentleman sponsored for one month. One month only. Not even one month; I remained there only three weeks, and then I chalked out my plan. He was my friend's son, and my friend wrote him that "You sponsor Swamiji for one month."

Guest (1): Some American gentleman?

Prabhupada: No, Indian. One gentleman from Agra. So his son immediately sent me, sponsoring. But still, the government objected that "We cannot allow you to go there, because you are sponsored by an individual person." But I wanted to see chief controller of... what is called, foreign exchange, Mr. Rao. So he kindly accepted: "Yes, Swamiji, you can go." He fought. [indistinct].

Guest (2): That time it was very difficult. Passport I have got already.

Prabhupada: Passport, visa.

Guest (2): Now, the difficulty is about visa only. Passport I have secured. It's cleared it for three years. The original passport. Now it is easy to get a passport. I do possess. After getting the passport I wrote and corresponded with your...

Prabhupada: So there was no money with me, and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking wine, and intoxication and gambling-these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Krsna... Everything became...

Guest (1): May I ask one thing? How you chose this America to be your first...?

Prabhupada: My Guru Maharaja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English-speaking public, and specially in the Western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London. But I had no money. So I got the opportunity of going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?

Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your first...

Prabhupada: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.

Guest (1): I see. There are number of Indians in New York. In New York, Indians are...

Prabhupada: No. In London there are many Indians.

Guest (1): In London, they say, there are about twelve lakhs of Indians in London.

Prabhupada: Yes. There are many Indians. In the street you will find it is just like ordinary Indian city. [Transl. Please come in. Sit down together.]

Guest (3): He's my friend.

Guest (1): Sit here. He is Mr. Pranlal. He's my old friend.

Guest (4): We both are coming from [National] Herald today Delhi. We will go back to Delhi after this Friday. We are interested in this Gita-jayanti Mahotsava, and we shall be more interested in you also. You are coming...

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Guest (4): So this is Mr. Sudhir Kumar Sharma. He's an..., a learned man. He has brought this tape recorder. He has come to tape your interview. Last night we met Mr. Jha. Sunil Jha. That Babaji?

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Guest (4): And he has permitted us to take your interview for our paper. So if you don't mind, we shall ask some questions.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (4): And we'll finish before you go there.

Prabhupada: That's all right. No, my men will go. Even if I am a little late, it doesn't matter. [to devotees:] So you go there and join at night. Then I will come in.

Guest (4): Babaji asked me to talk about how Svami A.C. Bhaktivedanta went to America and you went to America from the last five, six years back and incorporated this Krsna conscious movement there. That means to say that it is Krsna alone, it is bhakti of Krsna alone through which you can have God realization, and Krsna alone... [indistinct]... servant of Lord Krsna and...

Prabhupada: Krsna is God. People are searching after "Where is God?"-but they are missing Krsna. That is the dilemma of the present society.

Guest (4): You have written number of books also and there you speak of [indistinct] volumes are there. It is not only appealing to your eyes but to your heart and to your soul. By the very look of the book, our heart is..., rather, our soul is elated, and we come into that state of mind. Huh? So after reading this, we don't know what stage will come. See how beautiful... I will try to increase my love for these books. At least I should look through.

Guest (5): [indistinct] Will they be answering in Hindi or English?

Prabhupada: Which one?

Guest (5): This gentleman. You'll be answering in Hindi or English?

Prabhupada: As you like.

Guest (5): They know Hindi.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Guest (6): [Transl. They know but can't speak. They know little bit.]

Guest (7): No, no. If you want to put questions in English, Swamiji will reply in English. If you want to put in Hindi, I hope... Yesterday I heard him in Hindi, I had the good fortune, and I can say with my understanding that he is equally passed Masters in Hindi, although... [laughter] Yesterday we had the good occasion and the good fortune of hearing him in Hindi as well. [Transl. But disciples…Disciples can speak in English.]

Guest (8): Disciples will speak English only.

Prabhupada: Yes, they do not speak.

Guest (8): They probably don't know Hindi.

Prabhupada: No.

Guest (7): And I will also give you one song, you see, so that you may have that collection of prayer as a memory for me of my great swami, for whom I was always thinking for the last more than six months.

Guest (6): [Transl. Swamiji, how did you become influenced by Indian philosophy?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In my childhood my father taught me.] I was born, Vaisnava family. My father was a great devotee. Naturally, he gave me... Oh, I am speaking in Hindi..., English. [Transl. My father taught me about this subject matter. My father gave me Radha-Krsna Deities when I was a young boy. And I used to worship Them. This is all in my childhood at my house. I used to perform Ratha-yatra. My father taught me how to play mrdaṅga. So those same things which my father taught me in my childhood that I am preaching in the whole world. In European countries, in the Western countries we are holding Ratha-yatra. San Francisco, London. You might have seen the picture also. About twenty-five to thirty thousand people attend that. Many foreigners also join. We offer them food, prasada. We have Radha-Govinda Deities. We have got 40 to 45 temples. We have Radha-Krsna temples everywhere. These are my disciples. They duly follow the Vedic rules and regulations and proper code of conduct. They always do kirtan. I have given them books. About 12 to 15 big books like this I have given them. They study those day and night. The same principles which my father and my Guru Maharaja taught me, I am preaching in the west. And I am seeing how the foreigners are accepting and appreciating these spiritual literatures.]

Guest (6): [Transl. So by your preaching they are being attracted to Hindu dharma.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. These literatures do not promote Hindu dharma. They glorify kirtana-dharma. They have their Chirstian dharma, Jew dharma.] They are not attracted to the Hindu dharma.

Guest (6): Then why they attracted to Hare Rama, Hare Krsna?

Prabhupada: They are attracted to Krsna. These people, they are [Transl. attracted to Krsna. They are not attracted to Hindu dharma. In the western countries they think Hindu dharma means many god worshipers. They were told like that. Previously many Swamis have preached that Bhagavan is formless, so you can imagine any form. This philosophy was preached. God is formless.]

Guest: [Transl. But sir, you cannot separate Bhagavan from dharma.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please listen. They have this conception that Hindu philosophy accepts many Gods. People naturally have this impression. Just like in Gita Bhavan, if any foreigner goes there he will see so many Gods. Bajraṅgaji is there, Sivaji is there, and others…All are Bhagavan. This kind of Hindu dharma they are not attracted to. They were given Krsna and they are attracted to Him.] But you are taking Krsna as Hindu. That is your mistake. Krsna is... [Transl. Not Hindu.] He is God. He is God. [Transl. God is not Hindu, not Mussulman, not Christian, not Parsi.] God is God. [Transl. That's why they are so much attracted. I am presenting God as it is. I don't preach that there are so many Gods, you are God, he is God. Many svamis have previously gone there and preached like that. I don't preach like that. Therefore they are not attracted to Hindu dharma. Try to understand. They are attracted to Krsna.] And I am also not interested to preach Hindu dharma. [Transl. What is the use of it? Suppose one man was Mussulman and he was converted to Hindu, so what difference does it make? His mentality remains the same. So what is the use of rubber stamping him as Hindu? Will it help him in anyway just by rubber stamping? We mean dharma as] Krsna dharma. Krsna consciousness, that is the only dharma.

Guest: [Transl. Will you then be able to initiate Mussulmans into this Hare Krsna?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We already have many initiated Mussulmans in our society. Many Mussulmans.]

Guest: [Transl. Are those Mussulmans from India or foreign?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. From foreign.]

Guest: [Transl. Any example?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In England, in Germany.]

Guest: [Transl. They were Mussulman.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, Mussulman.]

Guest: [Transl. They have joined Hare Krsna movement.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In other countries also. We have got Christians, Jews, all kinds of people we have got. Just see them. So they are attracted to Krsna only. Whatever literatures we have got those are] Krsna literature. It is not a Hindu dharma literature. [Transl. Hindu dharma is too much expansive, thousands] So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Siva, or... [Transl. They are all demigods. But Bhagavad-gita as it is which is spoken by Bhagavan, He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. [Bg 18.66] That we preach. What the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna says that abandon all religions and surrender unto Me, that means this alone is real religion. All others are not dharmas if you strictly take this version of Bhagavad-gita.] Otherwise why Bhagavan says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My lotus feet?" That means to take shelter of Krsna's lotus feet is the only religion. [Transl. Kindly try to understand. Bhagavan says that dharma samsthapanarthaya, [Bg 4.8] to re-establish the principles of religion I incarnate Myself. And at the end He declares, sarva-dharman parityajya. So which dharma did Krsna come to establish? That is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]

Guest: [Transl. Respected Svamiji, when you preach the holy name in the west how faithfully do they accept it? Just like Vivekananda went from India and preached our Hindu dharma-sanatana dharma and set a prestigious image of India. Similarly what have you accomplished?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. He didn't do anything like that. Vivekananda. Where did Vivekananda set a high image of India?]

Guest: [Transl. Every Indian is proud of his achievement. He is honoured like that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Nothing like that. Vivekananda actually went to preach Vedanta. And the speech he delivered in Chicago had practically nothing to do with Vedanta. You can study that speech, I don't want to say much about it.] Practically that was against Hindu conception. [Transl. Another thing is Vivekananda went and others also went. Vivekananda went there in 1893 and from 1893 till today is about 80 years. Their mission is going on since 80 years and they have like four or five centres. There are two in New York, one in Los Angeles and other places also. So in 80 years they opened four or five centres. But within three years we have opened about thirty centres. Besides, in their centres, actual American dedicated souls are very meagre. But, in each of our centres, about twenty-five to fifty devotees live. Here is the example in front of you. So now you consider yourself whether by preaching Vedanta people were more benefitted or by preaching krsna-kirtan and Bhagavad-gita as it is people are more benefitted.]

Guest: [Transl. Simply by krsna-kirtan the foreigners became attracted to you?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Otherwise why they would have come?]

Guest: [Transl. Your definition and demonsration of krsna-kirtan convinced them?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. They gave up everything and live with me. Had they been fools why would they…]

Guest: [Transl. Don't you have any grhastha followers?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There are grhasthas. These are grhasthas.]

Guest: [Transl. But they have renounced their life.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Renounced means for the sake of Krsna. They gave up their sense gratificatory lifestyle. The karmis in the world want to enjoy everything of the world. This is the struggle everywhere. That's all. And our philosophy is there is nothing to enjoy because nothing belongs to us. This is called renouncement.

Bhagavan says,

They are My property. Why are you claiming another's property as yours? Bhagavan says, whatever you see in front of your eyes, what are they? They are earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. The whole world is made of this. So all these objectes, Bhagavan says, are Mine. My prakrti. So where have you got these things from? Then how can you enjoy? If you steal others property then you are a thief. It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita that one who enjoys things without offering them to Bhagavan he is a thief. Stena eva sah ucyate. [Bg 3.12] So those who do not believe in Bhagavan and refuse to acknowledge Bhagavan's property they are all thieves. Stena eva sah ucyate. So how can you expect peace in the society of thieves? Answer?]

Guest: [Transl. Impossible.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Impossible. According to Bhagavad-gita they are all thieves simply because they are claiming Bhagavan's property as their property. Aren't they be called thief or not? Suppose this photo is mine and you take it away then are you not a thief? Similarly whatever ingredients you have got…Suppose you build a house, what are these? You have mixed earth, water, fire, air etc and constructed the house. But the ingredients you could not create. They belong to Bhagavan. This earth you haven't manufactured.]

Guest: [Transl. One question I have is if those who have no faith in Bhagavan or Krsna Consciousness then how can they attain Bhagavan's shelter?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If they didn't have faith in Bhagavan then how will they attain Bhagavan?]

Guest: [Transl. What I mean…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. First of all answer this. If one has no faith in God then how can he attain God?]

Guest: [Transl. Krsna's name or…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. First you answer this that if a person has no faith in God then how will he achieve God?]

Gueat: [Transl. No, faith is there but...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Just now you said he has no faith.]

Guest: [Transl. But the holy name they chant in Krsna Consciousness, they have faith in God all right, but if they have no faith in God's name then how…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is foolishness. That is foolishness that one has faith in God but no faith in God's name. That is utterly foolishness.]

Guest (2): [Transl. Svamiji, in your eyes all scientists are useless.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is the benefit? The atom bomb has been created to kill people. That's all.]

Guest: [Transl. They go beyond that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is there. But being a scientist you cannot bada: [surpass God]]

Guest: [Transl. Why there is no need to bada?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. There is no question of fear. We are not talking of dar.] We are talking of Love. Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God [Transl. Afraid, those who are enemies of God they will be afraid. Just like Prahlada…]. [break] [Transl. ...he was not afraid of seeing the Lord's fearful form. He was peaceful. A devotee of the Supreme Lord is never afraid of the Lord. He climbs upon the Lord's shoulder.]

Guest: [Transl. Arjuna also asked the Lord in the Bhagavad-gita to change His ghastly form.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Because, Arjuna was Lord's intimate friend. He was not familiar with the universal form which was displayed to him. He said, I don't want to see this form. A devotee wants to see the Lord's original form-two handed flute player Krsna. That form he loves.]

Guest (2): [Transl. Svamiji, what steps have you taken to popularise Krsna's name?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Krsna's name is Krsna only. Krsna's name. We are trying in different ways to canvass Krsna's name everywhere that you all chant Krsna's name. This is the alternative. What else can be done? Just like a rascal is flattered to get some job done out of him, that same thing we are doing. Dante nidhaya trnakam padayor nipatya [Sri Caitanya Candramrtam 90] I fall at your feet, I flatter you with folded hands kindly hear my humble submission. This is what I have done. What else? Did I frighten them? I simply requested them to please come and hear what I have to say. And by hearing, hearing they became devotees! This is the only way. Somehow or other call them and make them hear with attention. Let them hear and take prasadam of the Lord. And let them dance. What is the difficulty? It is very easy process.] You come, sing, dance, and take prasadam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasadam, so what can be the more convenient way? [Transl. This is exactly what we do.]

Guest: [Transl. Apart from chanting Krsna's name can't we do anything else?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What else can we do? In Kali-yuga the living entities are so fallen that they cannot practice anything else.]

Guest: [Transl. That's right.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They cannot meditate. They cannot practice breathing exercise. They cannot understand Vedanta. Nor can they perform ritualistic sacrifices, nothing. He is already in distress. And to perform lavish and extensive sacrifice he hasn't got money. You yourself can understand it that though you want to do many things,] you are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. [Transl. If this is the situation of you then what to speak of the fools who don't know anything, what can they do? In the muscle of Kali-yuga there is no strength to anything else. Therefore this scriptural injunction that harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva has to be followed. By this process alone everything will be successful. There is no expenditure, no difficulty and this is the only means of deliverance given in the sastra.]

Guest: [Transl. Some learned persons say that you must work first for food because without food you cannot survive so…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are not learned, they are fools.]

Guest: [Transl. Just by chanting Rama Rama, will Rama supply my…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The answer is that he is not learned, he is fool number one. He doesn't know what is name. And he is commenting on the holy name.] He has no right because he does not know what is name. Nama-cintamani-krsnas caitanya-rasa-vigrahah. [Transl. You call him learned! Had he been a learned he would have understood the sastra.

[Transl. The holy name of Krsna and Krsna Himself are non-different. He doesn't know it then how is he a learned! He is a fool. He does not even know what is holy name. Did you understand or not? You were saying learned. A learned person supposed to know everything. He does not know what is holy name then how he is learned? He is a fool. So what will you gain by a fool's words? Vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam. The real learned is Vyasadeva who compiled the satvata-samhita-Srimad Bhagavatam. Lokasya ajanato vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam [SB 1.7.6] He alone is vidvan-Vyasadeva.]

Guest: [Transl. Only Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita teach dharma?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There are many types of dharma. Sattvika-dharma, rajasika-dharma, tamasika-dharma.]

Guest: [Transl. Just like other dharmas have their literatures and they teach good principles…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All right. That's all right. I accept that every dharma has certain principles. Just like Mussulmans have got their dharma, Christians have their dharma and there is Vedic dharma. So according to these qualities of sattva, rajah, and tamah of this world there are different dharmas. All are not on the same level. Some people are in the mode of darkness, some are in the mode of goodness and some are in the mode of passion. Therefore there is tamasika-dharma, rajasika-dharma and sattvika-dharma. Just like to worship goddess Kali and sacrifice got before her is also there in our Vedas. It is also dharma.]

Guest: [Transl. But then how to follow the injunction of the sastra? Those who cannot give up.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Follow…These are recommended for those who want to eat meat.]

Guest: [Transl. Basically eating meat is prohibited?]

Prabhupada: Yes. Because you will be responsible, if you cut throat of a goat, then you'll be responsible. Just like in your jurist[?] law, if you commit murder-you are lawyer-you have to be hanged. So, [Transl. Why don't you understand that even in the ordinary state law the judgement is] "life for life." So I am killing one life. I shall not be liable to repay by my life.

Guest (4): But then why the Vedas allow us to eat the meat of goat and other animals?

Prabhupada: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession. But they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle."

Guest: [Transl. Svamiji, why don't you arrange some programs in the schools and colleges. Will you please allow me?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Schools and colleges, but you first help the teachers of the schools and colleges. Schools and colleges are filled with children. So arrange something for the teachers.]

Guest: [Transl. Should I do it?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They think, this is not for us.] [indistinct discussion among guests about how to take Prabhupada for program.] The bhakti is all-inclusive. [Transl. And in the knowledge of Bhagavan, Brahma-jnana and Paramatma-jnana, are included. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Brahma, Paramatma and Bhagavan is advaya-jnana: the nondual substance, the absolute truth.]

[Transl. Jnana. First Brahma-jnana, then Paramama-jnana, then comes Bhagavad-jnana: the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That means one who possesses Bhagavad-jnana, he automatically knows Brahma-jnana and Paramatma-jnana. You understand? But one who has Brahma-jnana he does not have Bhagavad-jnana. Similarly one who has Paramama-jnana he too does not have Bhagavad-jnana.]

Guest: [Transl. What is Brahma-jnana?]

Prabhupada: Brahma-jnana means... Just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The brahma-jnana has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupada: It is these things that... This is the... Just like ordinary... [Transl. You know sunlight is huge, vast. But the source from which the sunlight is emanating is small.]

Prabhupada:

[Indistinct discussion among guests about Bhagavad-gita etc.]

Guest: [Transl. Correct. The origin is…] Brahma niskalam anantam... [Transl. The limitless effulgence is called nonvariegated Brahma. And the origin of this is Bhagavan. What is jnana?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Jnana, Brahma-jnana…]

Guest: [Transl. Brahma-jnana then Bhagavad-jnana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Brahma-jnana then Paramatma-jnana. Paramatma-jnana is meant for the yogis and Brahma-jnana is for the jnanis and Bhagavad-jnana is for the bhaktas.]

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupada: Different features. Different features. Just like Suryaloka and Suryadeva and Surya-rasmi: light. [Transl. Sunshine is Brahma-jnana, Sun globe is Paramatma-jnana and Sun god is Bhagavad-jnana.]

Guest (9): I see.

Prabhupada: [Transl. All three are one. All are one, but different stages. So the first stage is Brahma-jnana, Brahma-bhuta. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. [Bg 18.54] He is embarrassed by the sufferings of this material world. But when he realises I am brahma-spirit soul he becomes happy. Brahma-bhuta prasannatma, the living entity becomes joyful. Aham brahmasmi . Then he becomes liberated.]

Guest (9): You have to try to come in second arya[?].

Prabhupada: Then second, paramatma-jnana. Then bhagavad-jnana. [break]

Guest (9): [Transl. They are reading Bhagavad-gita but driving away Krsna. They are eliminating Bhagavan. They make Him zero.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Let them eat zero. Actually that is happening now. And here we have removed zero and worshiping Krsna. They have become happy. All zeros have been removed. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra. [SB 1.1.2] Without accepting the real dharma whatever other dharmas are passing on as dharma, they are all cheating. And in his commentary on this verse Sridhara Svami has said, atra moksa-vancha api nirasta. [break] [Transl. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo'tra, desire for liberation is also cheating. I will become liberated, I will become one with God-this mentality has been kicked out. And bhakti is jnana-karmady-anavrtam. Jnana and Karma have no jurisdiction on bhakti. It is pure.]

Guest: [Transl. No need of karma?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam anukulyena krsnanu- …, only serving Krsna favourably is pure bhakti.] That is bhakti. That is the pure bhakti. [Transl. And in Narada-bhakti-sutra it is stated anyabhilasita-sunyam …No, sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam First of all become free from all material designations. These are also designations, I am sannyasi, I am brahmana. This is also designation. I am Parsi, I am Hindu, I am Mussulman-these are also designations. When one becomes freed from all designations and completely becomes Krsna Conscious, in that state, one engages in devotional service with purified senses to the Supreme Lord who is the master of the senses. So long you are engrossed with material designations that this is my family, my family members, I belong to this country,my responsibility and so on so on, you cannot achieve liberation.]

Guest (9): It is very difficult to give up….

Prabhupada: Yes. It is difficult, but there is way.

Guest (9): …unless there is some guidance.

Prabhupada: Yes. So this is upadhi. [Transl. When I went to America to preach devotional service to the Supreme Lord if I would have preached Hindu dharma mixed with designations then none of them would have accepted it. That is mixed with upadhi.] I identify myself as Hindu. Yes. Then they would not have not accepted. They would have said, "We have got Christianity. Why should I accept your Hinduism?" [Transl. They were given Krsna unadulterated.]

Guest (9): This sort of distinction was not also clear to us, but now, after hearing you this morning...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (9): ...and your guidance has cleared it [Transl. otherwise I would also have identified as one of these and have the same consciousness.]

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Muhammadanism; we are talking on the science of God.

Guest (9): The true philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, there: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

Prabhupada: Back to Godhead.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

[conversation among Indians about BTG's]

I distributed what I got.

Prabhupada: No, I shall arrange to distribute. I am getting fifty thousand Back to Godheads. Fifty thousand. I shall distribute.

Guest: [Transl. No, no. Selling is the proper use. That is what I want.] [break]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Unadulterated Krsna. Krsna is without any designation.] We haven't got to present Krsna as Indian as Hindu. Krsna is neither of them. Krsna says, claims, that "Every living entity is My part and parcel. I am the seed-giving father." So therefore it has become successful. I never said that "You become a Hindu." "You accept Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and try to understand the philosophy." What business they have got to become Hindu? But they want to know what is God. Oh, that they have been taught.

Guest (9): They are accepting God.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. And here in India they say, why should we accept Krsna as God? This is the difficulty.] That's why they are puzzled although Krsna appeared in India.

Guest (9): We don't think that He belongs to particular place or religion.

Prabhupada: That's... They do not understand Krsna.

Guest: [Transl. That's totally wrong.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Krsna has also given a befitting reply to them. Avajananti mam mudha [Bg 9.11] Rascals and ass-like people think Krsna as an ordinary man like themselves. He clearly called them mudha.]

Guest: [Transl. Yes. Fools.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mudha means ass. So how can an ass understand Krsna? To understand Krsna one has to practice some austerity and become perfect. Yatatam api siddhanam. [Bg 7.3] One has to become perfect. Then he will understand Krsna. And that will take many lifetimes. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg 7.19] But if don't remain a fool but accept Krsna's words then you will attain Him. What is the need of waiting many lifetimes? If after many lifetimes I will have to come to Krsna then why not I grab His lotus feet now? Then your life will be successful.] Why step by step? If you have to accept Krsna, why not immediately? That is intelligence.

Guest (9): But you should be...

Prabhupada: There is no question of "should be." When Krsna says, "I'll give you protection," why "should be"? You don't believe in Krsna. He says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksa [Bg 18.66]. You are doubtful about Krsna's capacity. That means you do not know Krsna. Yes.

Guest (9): But in a part of the one form...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guest (9): But it is a part of one form [indistinct]

Prabhupada: What is that?

Guest (2): He means that is beyond his capacity to understand Him.

Prabhupada: What is the difficulty? Krsna says, "I am everything." Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to understand Krsna in your own way. Why you are becoming intentionally unable?

Guest (9): No, believe Him as you are a servant and serve Him. Or you believe that you are mother to Him. Or you believe that you are a son to Him.

Prabhupada: No, that is second. First of all surrender. Then what way you shall surrender, that is different thing, another stage, more confidential. First of all there is surrender. First of all you enter this house or this room. Then you ask, "How can I serve you?" That is different. First of all there is no surrender, or without surrender, full surrender, there is no entrance in Krsna.

Guest (9): No entry.

Prabhupada: No entry. Because those who revolted against Krsna, those who wanted to become Krsna by imitating Him, they are here in this material world. Iccha-dvesa-samutthena sarge yanti parantapa [Bg 7.27]. [Transl. The material world is] bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg 8.19] Creation, that all the living entities who have come into this created world, they have revolted. They wanted to become Krsna, to imitate Krsna. Therefore they have given the chance, "All right, you become Krsna. You do whatever you like. I will give you facility. You want to become Brahma? All right, you become Brahma. And you want to become the worm of stool? I will give you the facility."

So these living entities are rotating. Sometimes he is becoming Brahma, sometimes becoming the worm of a stool, sometimes this, sometimes that. In this way he is changing body. This is material world. And when he comes back again, back to Godhead, yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg 15.6]. Then you'll haven't got to come back. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg 4.9].

So we have to prepare for that position, how to go back to home, how to go back to Krsna, and engage ourself in His service. Then the question of either as mother or friend or... That will be considered later on. First of all let us try how to enter kingdom of God. That is condition, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg 18.66], that "You surrender unto Me fully, giving up all your other engagement. Then I take charge of you." Aham tvam moksayisyami. Moksa is there. For a krsna-bhakta is nothing, moksa, or liberation. He'll do it. He'll look after it.

Guest (9): Thank you very much.

Prabhupada: [aside:] Ready? All right. [end]