Morning Walk – March 21, 1976, Māyāpur

This kind of dust can be available here

Prabhupada: ...met recently our Lalita caca [uncle] You did not?

Bhavananda: Who is that?

Prabhupada: Lalita, Lalita. Lalita Thakur or...

Bhavananda: Lalita.

Pancadravida: Lalita Prasad?

Prabhupada: Huh, huh.

Bhavananda: In Birnagara, no. Jayapataka has been there, but I haven't been there in years. [break]

Prabhupada: ...moon is hot, they say, because the shade of the earth is obstructing.

Pancadravida: Yes.

Prabhupada: Is it not?

Devotees: Yes.

Trivikrama: They say that the sun is hitting like that.

Prabhupada: Eh? The sun is there, and the earth is there. How it becomes...?

Pusta Krsna: The earth is bet... The earth is between the sun and the moon. Therefore there's some...

Prabhupada: That's all right, in between.

Hamsadūta: No, no. They say that the sun's rays are striking it, only half. The other half is in shadow.

Prabhupada: What is that shadow?

Devotee (1): Night. Like nighttime on the earth.

Hamsadūta: Shadow. Like a ball. If I have a ball and shine a light on it, then...

Prabhupada: No. No, no. Shadow.

Hamsadūta: ...this side will be in shadow.

Prabhupada: Shadow... "Shadow" means earthly shadow? No.

Hamsadūta: No, no, no. Its own shadow. If this is a ball, and the light is coming from here, see, this portion will be in darkness or shadow, and the other portion will reflect light.

Pusta Krsna: That's not the modern theory.

Devotees: Yes, yes.

Prabhupada: Is that all right? Explanation?

Devotee (1): Sounds all right.

Hamsadūta: That's what they say.

Prabhupada: "They say." What you say?

Hamsadūta: We don't know anything. After meeting you, we wonder if we know anything, because we thought the moon was going around the earth.

Pusta Krsna: What shadow is that? The moon casts its own shadow.

Hamsadūta: That's what they say.

Prabhupada: They, their explanation is...

Pusta Krsna: Half the moon is in darkness.

Trivikrama: Yeah, the back side.

Prabhupada: The back side.

Trivikrama: The back side of the moon. That's what we're seeing now. The sun's here, hitting...

Prabhupada: I can understand now. That means moon..., moon is... A portion is bright.

Devotees: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Half of it is always bright.

Devotee: Yes. The part that's facing the sun.

Prthu-putra: But this is less than half.

Prabhupada: And when they go to the moon planet, they go to the dark side. Is it not?

Hamsadūta: No.

Pancadravida: No, they say they go to the light side, too.

Hamsadūta: No, they say the dark side is so cold that no one can... Because there's no sunlight, it is so cold.

Prabhupada: That means they have no experience of all the sides of the moon.

Hamsadūta: No, they don't. They only have one side, experiencing.

Prabhupada: So, so what is the cause of the brightness?

Pancadravida: The sun.

Prabhupada: They have brought some dust, but this is not bright.

Trivikrama: They say it's reflected light.

Prabhupada: That's all right. What is the material that makes it so bright so that whole universe is illuminated?

Hamsadūta: There's no comment on that point.

Prthu-putra: They don't know that.

Prabhupada: They have brought some dust, but that is not bright. They have said... The other scientists, they said, "This kind of dust can be available here." Just see. Now, how it is bright?

Pancadravida: Well, they say that from space the earth would be bright also, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: The nonsense may say anything. But our common sense, that if the..., there is some ingredient in this moon which makes it bright, so they have brought the dust, but other scientists say that this dust can be available here.

Pancadravida: So it may be cheating.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pancadravida: Actually, they have not proved anything.

Prabhupada: That is my contention.

Trivikrama: They say the moon is bright, just like if a cloud is in the sky, it appears very white and bright because the sun is hitting it. But the same cloud, if you bring it into the room, it's just mist.

Prabhupada: But cloud is not always existing. But this brightness is always existing. Cloud is sometimes appearing, sometimes disappearing. The moon brightness is regular. How you can compare with cloud? When you compare, there must be consistency. Analogy. Analogy means similar position. Otherwise, analogy has no meaning.

Hamsadūta: Here's Jayapataka.

Prabhupada: Ah! [break] Our Lalita Caca wants to do? You met him recently?

Jayapataka: Oh. So his point is...

Prabhupada: Does he want to do something or simply speculate?

Jayapataka: He says that he wants to do something, and so does some of his people.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayapataka: But he has a committee. He has a Society. One Mr. Bhattacarya, who is a lawyer, and this Sat-cit-andana, who is a clerk.

Prabhupada: But that's all right. What they want to do?

Jayapataka: But they never... We never spoke to those people.

Prabhupada: I have told him that "Whatever you want to give us, give us. If you cannot give us, give us in lease. You will remain your proprietor, but give us in lease, and we develop it." But he has never replied that. What does he want to do?

Jayapataka: Before he finalized once, he said he wanted to speak to you once more. But never was the thing actually discussed in detail with Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupada: It was discussed. And he agreed, "Yes." But his man has different idea. So if you think that he's serious, we can go today sometime. How long it takes by car?

Jayapataka: It takes about an hour.

Prabhupada: Hour.

Jayapataka: But actually it's on the route to Calcutta.

Prabhupada: Oh. So we can... But that will be very hastily. That... The road is all right?

Jayapataka: That... The road to his place is all right. There's a shortcut from Krishnanagar; if that's taken, then for a while, one kilometer, there's kahca road. After that, there's very..., there's clear road with no traffic. Otherwise, if we... We normally take that in the vans and in the jeep. We save about half an hour. But that way you have to go through one mile of kahca road. Otherwise, if you go by all paka road, then it's a good road. Just takes a...

Prabhupada: No, we shall go...

Jayapataka: ...little longer.

Prabhupada: It doesn't matter. We shall go by the paka. Kahca road may damage the car.

Pusta Krsna: Is that today or tomorrow, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: No. On the way to Calcutta, talking will not be very serious because we'll be busy to go fast.

Jayapataka: We'd be in a hurry.

Prabhupada: Hmm? Yes. Yes. [break] So what is the use of such men? Why he's keeping these men? They cannot do anything. He gets some pension. He spends that money? But they are not doing anything. So what is the meaning of this committe?

Jayapataka: He admits that many times he has told some of them to leave their family life and take up some preaching, but they don't do it.

Prabhupada: How they'll do it? They do not know how to preach, neither they are trained up. That means it is his disqualification. He could not train them how to preach. Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was training Haridasa Thakura, Nityananda, "Go there. Preach there. Do that." My Guru Maharaja was doing that. But he has no power. He cannot do it. He simply talks that he is a very confidential devotee. That's all. He cannot preach. Otherwise, Prabhupada developed this Mayapur, and he could not do anything. That means he has no power.

Jayapataka: He should have developed that place. Hardly he can maintain.

Prabhupada: Yes. He simply talks of big, big words. In the beginning, Prabhupada had no committee, nothing of the sort. That he'll not admit, that he has no power to do so. He simply thinks that he's very confidential son of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. That's his... [break] ...babaji you have seen? His chief disciple? He lives in Calcutta.

Jayapataka: Yeah, he's not actually a babaji; he's grhastha.

Prabhupada: Oh, but he lives like a babaji dress.

Jayapataka: I don't know anyone lives by babaji... He wears dhoti.

Prabhupada: What is his name?

Jayapataka: Sat-cit-ananda.

Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, Sat-cit-ananda. So he... I have seen several times. He's like babaji, but what he is?

Jayapataka: He's a clerk.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayapataka: He's a clerk.

Prabhupada: Clerk. [laughs] And he's the chief man.

Jayapataka: He's a secretary. They have lawyer also, but he is the treasurer or something. I've only met with Sat-cit-ananda. [break] He does some preaching. He goes to Bangladesh and does kirtana on village to village sometimes. [break] ...if they give us the place on lease.

Prabhupada: What is the use of talking?

Jayapataka: What is the use of talking with Lalita Prasad?

Prabhupada: Eh? No. That was the... Last talk was like that. I wanted that "You have to consider that whatever portion you can spare, give us on lease. We develop." That's all. Ninety-nine-years' lease.

Jayapataka: I don't think he clearly understood. [break] Hmm?

Pancadravida: In what way would we develop it?

Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura's birthplace? Make some nice building with some devotees, one to take care. That's all. Means making interested the local inhabitants.

Pancadravida: Start programs.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Yes. They should come and hear. The preachers, wanted.

Jayapataka: They showed me that one plot of five bighas [8000 sq. yds.] that... They were considering giving this to us if we would develop one guesthouse and one institute.

Prabhupada: No, they cannot make any condition. Whatever we shall like we shall do. There is no condition. If they give us on lease, they are concerned with the rent, that's all. Yes.

Jayapataka: But they were willing to give outright.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayapataka: They were going to give outright one piece of land. They just requested that... Their idea was that they hoped there would be a..., some place for studying Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books, one type of Bhaktivinoda Thakura institute or library where people could..., all of his books would be collected, and his works.

Prabhupada: Oh, that is a good idea. That we can do.

Jayapataka: And some place for staying at also.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Five bighas. That we can do. If they agree, then let them give us. We shall do.

Jayapataka: Lalita Prasad Thakura was saying that... He was feeling that one more interview with you was necessary. However, I'm reluctant to say to go today because I haven't seen him for a month or two, and I don't want a two-three hour trip to just go, maybe nothing may come of it. That's why I'm thinking on the way to Calcutta there would be more..., wouldn't be much expenditure of time, I mean, as far as traveling goes. And let's say, if something comes of it, then it's all right. If something doesn't come, it's not such a great loss.

Prabhupada: All right, we can do that. Then we shall go by the nice...

Jayapataka: Oh, yes. The nice. There's only one little bridge. Other than that, everything is all right.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayapataka: There's one bridge like we went over yesterday. That's a little... Otherwise, everywhere...

Prabhupada: No, no, bridge, it is in good condition or not? Sometimes it is... Last time we went, that injured... It made some damage.

Jayapataka: On what?

Prabhupada: The car was damaged.

Jayapataka: Oh, it won't damage the car.

Prabhupada: Oh. That is our concern. If the car is damaged, that is not good.

Jayapataka: The last journey there was some damage on the car?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pusta Krsna: No damage on our car.

Prabhupada: No, no. Last time when I went.

Pusta Krsna: Last time, when Prabhupada went.

Jayapataka: Oh, no, since then they've improved the road. Oh, that road has been paved now. Paka road.

Prabhupada: Oh. [break]

Jayapataka: ...there, Srila Prabhupada. They've got a mango orchard also. What time will you be leaving here tomorrow?

Prabhupada: Early in the morning.

Pusta Krsna: Five.

Prabhupada: Or when...? As you like. I have no... [break] They... How we see the sun is fixed up? The sun is moving, we see, so quickly. And the moon is moving, but it does not move. It is fixed up. Mean regarding the time, you can see practically, the sun is moving. And they say it is fixed up. The fixed-up article is moving quickly, and the moving article is fixed up. Why?

Pancadravida: When a train is in the station, when the train pulls out of the station, when you're in the train, it looks like that the station is moving and you're standing still.

Prabhupada: Train has got different movement. But that means it has got different movement? Your analogy is imperfect.

Pancadravida: No, but if we...

Prabhupada: You cannot compare with train because train has got different movement. But they haven't got different movement.

Pancadravida: But if this was moving at the same speed as the earth, it would appear to be fixed up. If the moon and the earth were both moving at the same speed, it would appear to be fixed up.

Prabhupada: No. We see practically. Now we are standing. We see the sun is moving. It comes. And the moon is moving, but it is fixed up. Why it is? The moving matter is stand still, and the fixed-up matter is moving.

Pancadravida: Actually, it's we who are moving. The sun is...

Prabhupada: But my speed is the same.

Pancadravida: Pardon me?

Prabhupada: My, this earthly moving, that speed is the same. Why you find different position? Just consider with brain.

Pusta Krsna: If the moon is closer than the sun, according to the scientists' philosophy...

Prabhupada: Philosophy... But we see, I mean, a distant matter is moving. We can see. And nearer, we cannot see. It is fixed up. What is this?

Pusta Krsna: If you take a bicycle wheel, a spoke...

Prabhupada: A bicycle you cannot concern. Bicycle or train, they have got different speed. You cannot compare. That analogy will not stand.

Pusta Krsna: Say you take one spoke, one...

Prabhupada: No, no, we, cannot... You cannot bring bicycles in discussion first of all. You can talk all this to the fools. Analogy cannot be accepted unless they are similar.

Pancadravida: The moon is locked up. The moon is in the same...

Prabhupada: That means you are suggesting simply. You have no clear idea. Actually the sun is moving. That is my point. Such a huge, gigantic matter, and we see, so quickly... From the sunrise, now, it is not even fifteen minutes. Just imagine how big speed is there is.

Jayapataka: But it is not so fast at midday.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayapataka: It is not so fast at midday.

Prabhupada: No. Eh? No...

Jayapataka: At midday, it is not so...

Prabhupada: Faster, fast..., it is fast also. But because on the head. The speed is the same. You cannot say...

Pusta Krsna: One point is there, though, Srila Prabhupada. If the moon is illuminating-it gives off its own light-then why can we only see half of the moon now?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: If the moon is illuminating, why can we only see half of the moon?

Prabhupada: They say there is half of the illuminating.

Pusta Krsna: Yes, because it's reflected from the sun.

Prabhupada: The shadow. Then there is shadow. It is being shadowed.

Pusta Krsna: If it's reflection.

Prabhupada: No, reflection we do not accept.

Pusta Krsna: It's illuminating.

Prabhupada: It is illuminating.

Pusta Krsna: Giving off light.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: So then why is it that we can only see half of the moon, then?

Pancadravida: Half moon.

Prabhupada: About these movements, my position is different. My position is... There is two movements, a sun movement and the whole planetary system movement. So according to the movement... That is explained in the Bhagavatam.

Pancadravida: Why is it sometimes there's only quarter moon, no moon, half moon, full moon?

Prabhupada: The same explanation. On the whole, we have to accept that something wonderful is going on. And that is Krsna's arrangement.

Trivikrama: Jaya.

Prabhupada: You cannot explain. You, you rascal scientists, from so much distant you have calculated, "This is thi..." This is all wrong. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakraḥ [Bs 5.52]. They are carrying order of Krsna, not your order. Yasyajnaya. "By the order of Govinda," not your order. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakraḥ. [break]

Pancadravida: "There may be a God, but all these stories..."

Prabhupada: "There may be." That is rascaldom.

Pancadravida: All these stories about Him...

Prabhupada: Anyone who says "maybe," he's not scientist; he's a rascal. Then why shall I hear him, rascal? Why shall I waste my time? I am not going to waste my time to hear a rascal. How can I? I have got value of my time. As soon as he says, "Maybe there is God," he's a rascal.

Pancadravida: Then, if he says...

Prabhupada: Now, just like if somebody says, "Maybe there is a president," he's a rascal. He does not know what is the history, what is the constitution. He does not know. So why a gentleman should waste a time with such a rascal who says, "There may be a president"? Immediately he becomes a rascal.

Pancadravida: Then he says, "There is a God, but all these stories about Him and His activities, they are just imaginations."

Prabhupada: That's right. You do not know what is God, after all. "There may be." Then who is going to hear you? You do not know. Your statement is also another story.

Pancadravida: I am not a scientist.

Prabhupada: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.

Pancadravida: They only accept...

Prabhupada: That is not scientist, that he..., "maybe," "perhaps." That is not scientist.

Pancadravida: Well, they only accept what they can confirm by experimentation.

Prabhupada: That means their experiment is not perfect. Their observation is not perfect-vague idea. So how he can become a scientist? That is no scientist.

Pancadravida: What is the position of one who accepts God, that there is God... [break]

Prabhupada: Take Krsna do not manufacture Krsna. Hare Krsna, thank you very much... Yei bhaje sei baḍa. [Cc Antya 4.67] Here is woman. Don't worry. Engaged in worshiping. All right, she is great. Yei bhaje sei baḍa. So why should we hate woman? Anyone who is engaged in service, he is big. The dress is not important; the advancement of Krsna consciousness is important. We have to see from that angular. Just like we sometimes have to dress like ordinary gentleman and sell books. Does it mean he is deviating? No. He's serving Krsna, dress or no dress. It doesn't matter. That is wanted. That is wanted. If you stick to the dress, "Oh, I have taken sannyasi, I cannot..." He cannot sell the books. Where is your service influence? You must give service first. Hare Krsna. Is that Lilavati? No. It is Lilavati? No. I was thinking that she is Lilavati dressed like a widow, because she never likes to be widow. [laughter]

Pusta Krsna: That's Hrdayananda's old wife.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Pusta Krsna: That's Hrdayananda's old wife.

Prabhupada: Oh, Dayananda's?

Pusta Krsna: Hrdayananda Swami.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Pancadraviḍa: She is widow.

Prabhupada: Nobody is widow, because Krsna is ultimate husband. Hare Krsna.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupada!

Prabhupada: Jaya!

Children: Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Jaya Prabhupada! Jaya Prabhupada!

Prabhupada: Jaya!

Children: Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Haribol!

Prabhupada: Haribol! So where is the artist for painting?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Both of them?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hare Krsna. [break] Make the bullock cart an international. They'll be surprised. Hare Krsna. Bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya [Cc Madhya 22.62]. We must be always convinced that if we simply take up the knowledge given by Krsna, then you are perfect. That's all. If little success is there for me than other svamis and yogis, it is due to my conviction on this point. I never compromised with anything which is not spoken by Krsna. Did you mark it or not?

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Devotee: One time you told us, Srila Prabhupada, to meet every man at his door and ask him to give up everything he knows and chant Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is simple. "You rascal, you give up whatever you have learned, you chant Hare Krsna." Don't say "rascal," but indirectly [laughter], that "Whatever you have learned, it is all nonsense." Sakalam eva vihaya dūrat [Caitanya-candramrta 90], "You give up everything, kicked out, and simply become adherent to Caitanya." This is our preaching. And what Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc Madhya 7.128], that's all. Because ultimately He is Krsna.

Pancadraviḍa: Can you repeat why you said you have been successful where others have not?

Prabhupada: Because I stick to Krsna's word. I, therefore, present Bhagavad-gita as it is. We do not make any amendment nor accept any amendment. And, therefore, we decry everything-Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Aurobindo, this, that-all rascals, because they tried to amend it. That is admitted by the French professor. They have all tried to make it modernized, but I have not done. Here is the spiritual master in the disciplic succession, so we remain indebted to him to understand the original traditional knowledge.

Devotee: Also that professor from Mexico City, he appreciated.

Prabhupada: Yes, everyone who is after truth will accept. If he's a bogus, if you want to be cheated and cheat others, that will not. Ninety-nine per cent, they are cheaters and cheated. This is the position. All these cheaters, they are cheating, and they accept to be cheated. If I am very clever that I don't want to be cheated, then nobody can cheat me. But these rascals, they want to be cheated. If you say, "No, no, what is the wrong in illicit sex?" That means you want to be cheated. And if you say, "and he will praise you, "this svami is very conservative." This is the position. We want cheap things because we want to be cheated. And there are so many cheaters, they will take advantage and cheat you. This is going on.

Pancadraviḍa: Allen Ginsberg, he said that, that you were very conservative.

Prabhupada: Yes, because he wants to be cheated. And he cheats others. Some followers, he is cheating.

Pancadraviḍa: Yata mata tata patha [as many opinions as many ways.]

Prabhupada: Yata mata tata patha. Yes, this is going on. This business, cheaters and cheated. We preach to one, the innocent persons who are being cheated, and we don't want to cheat anybody, but what Krsna says. Our business is very simple.

Devotee: So we should expose these bogus...

Prabhupada: Yes, we are exposing, that is our business.

Devotee: Actually, by making such wonders they are exposing themselves.

Prabhupada: That is fact.

Devotee: Just like Guru Maharaj-ji.

Prabhupada: Anyone. Why Guru Maharaj-ji? Any Maharaja. Any man who will speak something which is not in the instruction of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Krsna, he is cheating. Hare Krsna.

Pusta Krsna: But if we take that we are the only way, then people call us fanatics.

Prabhupada: They may say. They are themselves fanatics. Who cares for them? If a madman says you are madman, I have to accept? No. He must be a sane man. Then there is some meaning. He is calling me madman, but he is a... If I am blind and if another man, he is blind, he says you are blind, so what is the use?

Pusta Krsna: So is the principle to first prove that they are insane and then afterwards that we're sane, or first to prove that we're sane and then...

Prabhupada: Our proof is that we are following the sane man's instruction, or sane being, the Supreme Being. There cannot be any mistake. Therefore, we are sane.

Devotee: They say they are also following.

Prabhupada: No. Therefore, why they are changing? We don't change, millions of years. What Krsna said, we are following the same. But they change every year.

Pancadraviḍa: That Vairagi Baba, he showed up in Hong Kong, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pancadraviḍa: You know that person who gives us the mandir in Vrndavana and... What's his name? We stay at that Fogla Ashram every year? Vairagi Baba?

Prabhupada: Vairagi Baba.

Pancadraviḍa: He showed up in Hong Kong. He said that "There are two great influences in my life: one Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who taught me service..., who taught me devotion," and he said, "Ramakrishna, who taught us service to man." He also showed up with one woman sannyasini or something.

Devotee: Service to man. [laughter]

Prabhupada: Especially woman. [laughter]

Pancadraviḍa: And wearing saffron too. You gave him an offer he could travel and become..., and take part in our movement if he was willing to preach Bhagavad-gita as it is.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pancadraviḍa: He did not accept.

Prabhupada: That means he wants to cheat. [loud kirtana] [end]