Conversation, Incl. SB 1.2.2–34 Recitation & Purport — April 1, 1969, San Francisco

690401R1-San Francisco [53:00 Minutes]

My dear boy, where you are going?

Prabhupada: "So we want to see him [her] naked in this assembly." So she prayed Krsna. Mahabharata story is very nice, how Krsna, protecting His devotee.

Devotee: Swamiji? Didn't Karna request Arjuna not to fight when he was lifting the chariot? Didn't Karna request Arjuna not to kill him?

Prabhupada: Yes. Requested. But Krsna said, "No. You kill him. I say." Arjuna said, "That's all right. [laughter] When You order me, 'Fight,' [chuckles] I don't care for any morality or discipline. Your order is 'Fight.'"

Devotee: Can you chant for us loudly? Can you chant from the Bhagavata?

Prabhupada: Yes, I'll chant. Hare Krsna. Oh, thank you very much. All should be offered there, Jagannatha. The etiquette is nice. Everything should be offered to the..., through the spiritual master. That is the etiquette. No direct.

[Prabhupada chants the second chapter of First Canto]

[02:02]

[08:52]

One chapter. Just play it.

[break] ...heard the sound only. [laughs]

The explanation... I shall give you little explanation.

Devotee: Isn't the sound, always good as the explanation?

Prabhupada: Yes. Hearing is always good.

Devotee: Although we don't know what it means, but just the sound.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Sound will act. Just like "Krsna," "Hare Krsna," is acting, similarly.

Devotee: What chapter is this, Swamiji?

Prabhupada: This is Second Chapter, First Canto. Sūta Gosvami, before speaking to the audience, he is offering his respect to the spiritual master. To offer respect to anyone means to remember his qualification. Just like we sing... Just like you offer respect to your spiritual master. What is the meaning?

Yes. "I offer my respectful obeisances to Swami Bhaktivedanta, who is very dear to Krsna, and has come before us to deliver." This is the meaning. So his qualification is described.

Similarly, here also Sūta Gosvami is offering respect to his spiritual master, Sukadeva Gosvami, and he is repeating the history of Sukadeva Gosvami. Sukadeva Gosvami, just after taking birth from the mother's womb, immediately he started, without staying for a moment. Just see the brahmacari. The... Father, they are naturally affectionate. So father saw that "This man, child, immediately after birth is going away? How is that? My dear boy, where you are going? Where you are going?" [laughter] [laughs] So that is being ex...

The Sukadeva Gosvami, who was going without any ceremonial function... Because after birth there is ceremony, there is nama-karana, so many things to be done. But he didn't care for anything, any rituals. He immediately started. So it is specifically mentioned that he began to start without observing any formality, any rituals. Immediately started. Yam pravrajantam anupetam apeta-krtyam [SB 1.2.2]. Krtyam means things which have to be done. Just like you are initiated, there are so many things to be done. So he didn't care for anything.

Dvaipayano ciraha-katara ajuhava. Dvaipayana is father's name, Dvaipayana Vyasa. Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasa, his father's name. So viraha-katara, too much affected: "The son born and immediately he's going?" Just see how much he is... "My dear boy, where you are going?" Ajuhava. He didn't care whether father or mother is cut. Putreti tan-mayataya taravo 'bhinedus.

And there was vibration. He was passing through the jungle, and the trees as he vibrated... He was asking, "My dear son, my dear son," and the vibration, "My dear son, my dear son." Like that. Tam sarva-bhūta-hrdayam munim anato 'smi [SB 1.2.2]. So, "I am offering my respect to that saintly person." That means his qualification described and offered respect.

And then next qualification, what is that?

And his other qualification is that he presented the gist, essence, substance, of Vedic knowledge for the persons who are eager to get out of the darkness of this material existence. Atititirsatam tamo 'ndham samsarinam karunayaha [SB 1.2.3]. And purana guhyam. This Srimad-Bhagavatam is called the maha-purana, I mean to say, "the greatest history." Purana means history, old history; guhyam, very confidential.

He explained this great, confidential history for the people who are suffering the repeated birth and death. For their purpose he is so kind that he explained. Samsarinam karunaya. Karunaya means out of compassionate..., compassion for the persons who are suffering continually birth and death. Tam vyasa-sūnam upayami gurum muninam. So "I offer my respect to that son of Vyasa, who is spiritual master of many other saintly persons."

Now after... This is the process. He... First of all, he offered his respect to his spiritual master, then Narayana. Yes. Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not first to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but first to the spiritual master, and then Narayana. Yes. Just like he was asking.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupada: Through. Narayanam namaskrtya naram caiva narottamam [SB 1.2.4]. Yes.

Gargamuni: Oh, that's his master.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. Naram caiva narottamam devim sarasvatim. Sarasvati, the goddess of learning. And vyasam, and then Vyasadeva, who is the master of Vedic literature. One after another. This is... Vyasam tato jayam udirayet.

Then he is... He was questioned by the audience that "What is the most important religion in this age?" That was their question. "There are many types of religious principle, so what is the best one for this age?" So he is replying that question. Munayaḥ sadhu prsto 'ham bhavadbhir loka-mangalam [SB 1.2.5].

"You have put very nice question, because you have put the question that 'What is the best religion for the people of this age?' " Yat-krtaḥ krsna-samprasno yenatma suprasidati. "And you have..., you are very much anxious to understand the activities of Lord Krsna. It is very nice. By this discussion everyone will become actually peaceful and satisfied."

So the answer, "What is the best religious principle?" he is answering. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6] "My dear brahmanas..." in that meeting all the audience were great learned sages and brahmanas. So he is addressing them. "That is the best form of religion which, performing, one becomes elevated to devotional service of the Lord." Not religious formalities. One has to test by the result. Phalena pariciyate.

You are Christian, I am Hindu, or he is Muhammadan. That's all right. You are very good, I am very good, he is very good. But what is the result of your following religion? Have you attained love of God? Simply I go to church, I go to temple, and I do all kinds of nonsense; I have no love for God, I have love for my maya, and I go simply...," that is useless.

Religious principle means... It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu or Christian or Muslim or anything. It doesn't matter. Just see Bhagavata. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6]. "That sort of religion is nice, best, by which you can develop love of Godhead." It doesn't mention that "This religion is best," "That religion is best." That religion is best which helps someone, the religionist, to develop love of God, Godhead.

Just see. If you put to test all kinds of religion in this formula of Srimad-Bhagavatam, you'll understand which religion is best. You haven't got to ask anybody. Simply by testing how much one has developed love of Godhead, how much one has learned to love Krsna, or God. If, following any type of religion, if you get this result, then you have performed your religious principle very nicely. This is the answer.

And what kind of love? Ahaituki: without any cause. "Oh, I love God because I want something from Him." Generally, as they love God, distress, they want something. "My dear Lord, I am very unhappy. Please help me." That is also good. That is not bad. That is accepted in Bhagavad-gita. But that is not pure love. Pure love means there is no reason. "Why I am loving Krsna? Oh, there is no reason. I love Krsna. I want Krsna." This is love.

Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says... You have got this translation in my first book, that..., that Advaita has quoted that sloka in his sermon[?], that "Whatever You do, You are my Lord. I don't mind whether You put me into distress or You put me into happiness, or if You don't help me in realizing You. It doesn't matter. Still I love You. Whether I am going to hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. But I love You." Just like Cowper said, "England, with all thy fault, I love you." This is love. This is material, crude.

Ahaituki apratihata. Apratihata means that business, "I love Krsna," cannot be stopped. "I could not love Krsna because I was busy in doing this thing or that thing, or because..." So many reason we can put forward. No. Love of Krsna cannot be stopped by any material reason. That is love. Nobody can say that "For this reason I could not love Krsna." There is no reason. There is no impediment for anyone. Any circumstances.

So any religious principle which helps a person to love Krsna and God, in that way, without any reason, without any impediment... Just like flow of the river. There is no impediment in this world which can stop the flow of the river or the waves of the Pacific Ocean. There is no power in the material world which can stop the waves going on, going on, going on. You see? Similarly, that is the best type of religion.

Now just see how Bhagavata is liberal in the description of religion. Religion... You are religious, you are very pious man-how it will be tested? How much you have developed love of God. That's all. Without any reason, without any impediment. This is test of best religion.

Vasudeve... [aside:] Guru dasa, you can hear? Yes.

Now, what is the purpose of religion? Why human society...? In human society, why there is some sort of religion? The animals, they have got no religion. Therefore if human society gives up the process of religion... Doesn't matter what religion he professes. It doesn't matter. If he doesn't care for religion, that society is no better than animals. That is animal society. Because animals, they have got no religion.

So human society, if they have no religion... Must have some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything, a human being must follow. That is civilized. That is the behavior of civilized world. At the present moment they are neglecting. But in every country, either there may be temples or churches or mosque, people were very religious-minded before this age.

I was very much satisfied when I came to New York... No, not only New York. First of all, I went to Pittsburgh, Butler. In that Butler County there were at least one dozen churches, very nice churches. That's a small county. So I was very much satisfied: "Oh, the American people are very religious. They have got these churches." And I saw on Sunday people were attending churches. And in New York also I saw. They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me?

So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiah. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Krsna, or anyone you take, nobody says that "You make adjustment here and live peacefully." No. Nobody says. You know that. So religious principle means to know that this is not the place to live happily. This is the principal aim of teaching religion. We are trying to live here, making things nicely adjusted, peace and prosperity. That will never be possible. This is foolishness.

So religion means..., religiously trained mind means he will know that "This is not the place for me. I should [with]draw my attachment for this place, and I must know what is my necessity. I am a spirit soul. I am not this body. Therefore bodily necessities are not all my demands. I must have spiritual necessities also. So all this means that I must give up my attachment for this body and I must develop my spiritual needs." That is the purpose of religion.

So here it is stated that vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ [SB 1.2.7]. All these religious principle can be achieved immediately if you place your love unto Krsna. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ. Bhakti-yogaḥ means devotional... If you try to serve, in devotional service, Krsna, then all these principles of religions will automatically come. You will know that "I am not this body; I am a spirit soul. I have... The material attachment is useless for me. My real business is spiritual advancement of life." Everything will be clear if you simply execute devotional service of Krsna. Vasudeve bhagavati.

Dharmaḥ svanusthitaḥ pumsam visvaksena kathasu yaḥ [SB 1.2.8]. Again, it is stated, one may execute very nicely his prescribed duties according to his religion-very good boy-but if he does not develop to hear about Krsna, or God, this propensity... Just like you are sitting here to hear about Bhagavata. Why? This is very nice symptom. You are developing to hear some things about God, or Krsna. These tendencies. The temple, somebody comes to hear. Not all, because they have no development. Life is wasted.

So dharmaḥ svanustha... You may do your duty very nicely, you may be very moralist or philanthropist or so many they have manufactured. You may become everything. But if you have not that propensity to hear something about God, then all these are srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], simply laboring, laboring, laboring. That's all. That means wasting time.

Now, people are generally inclined to execute religious principles to make economic development. Just like in your Christian religion they go to church and pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." That is mean economic development. Not only here; in India also the temple go, "My dear Krsna, please keep my family well," or this or that. Economic problem. Generally, people, they become religionist...

Therefore modern politicians, they say, "Why should you..." Just like the Russians. They say, "Why should you go to church for begging, 'Give us our daily...'? Oh, you come to us. We shall give you sufficient bread." The Bolshevists, they make propaganda like this. They go to village to village and ask the village men, "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' so have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread, and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like, you take." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." [laughter]

Because they are not intelligent enough to answer, "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread, from your father's house?" [laughter] "Can you manufacture the bread in the factory, rascal? It is God's bread." But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Krsna consciousness.

So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhagavata says that for economic solution... Religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already.

Just like in the prison house, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prison house-all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God-but still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God. Everything is there.

So Bhagavata says, dharmasya hy apavargyasya nartho 'rthayopakalpate [SB 1.2.9]: don't execute religious principles for making your economic problem solved. Then? "We require some money." Yes. "What for?" Narthasya dharmaikantasya kamo labhaya hi smrtaḥ. And even if you get money, that is not for your sense gratification. Narthasya dharmaikantasya. If you are religious, really, actually a man of religiosity, then your money is not for sense gratification, as we are teaching our boys. They are working hard, they are getting money, and they are spending for Krsna. You see? Because they have understood that "My energy spent for Krsna's cause is really utilized. And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs."

So narthasya. If you get money-you must get money-but it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the..., it is meant? We have got senses. We have to satisfy it." Yes. You have to satisfy it, but not for enjoyment. As far as you require it. You require fooding? Yes, for maintaining your bod, not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all.

You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping; defending-that's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon others' property. Just like people are sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited. The sastra allows it.

If somebody comes to encroach upon your property, you kill him immediately. That is said. But not kill unnecessarily. Just like Arjuna was taught, "Kill them. They have insulted your wife, they have encroached upon your property. They must be killed." That is allowed. But you don't be aggressive. So ahara-nidra-bhaya, and sex, sex life. Yes. Just get yourself married and have sex life only for children, not for other purpose.

So kamasya nendriya-pritiḥ. Kama means we have got some demands of the body. That is called kama, or lust. So that does not mean that we have to gratify the senses. As far as necessary, we shall utilize it. Nendriya-pritiḥ. Then how to live? Now, kamasya, that satisfaction of the senses should be allowed just to keep myself fit. I must live. Even if I become Krsna consciousness, I must work. So that is allowed.

But what is my... What is your main business? Jivasya tattva-jijnasa nartho yas ceha karmabhiḥ. Your only business is to understand what you are, what God is, what is this world, what is your relationship. This is your main business. This is your main business. Not that you earn money and employ it for sense gratification, as it is going on in this materialistic way of life. Nobody is inquisitive to know what he is. How can he? Very big businessman or very rich man or so-called advancement, can you say what you are? What is your duty? Nobody can say.

So that is the main business, that jivasya tattva-jijnasa nartho yas ceha karmabhiḥ. By your... By the result of your activity... Or your main activity should be inquiring about your spiritual existence. So this should be our inquiry.

I think we should stop here.

Yes.

[break] [devotees offer obeisances]

Govinda dasi? Where is Govinda dasi? You take these two fruits, offer, cutting, and distribute prasadam.

Gargamuni: Thank you for chanting Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam [SB 12.13.18]. You have got Srimad-Bhagavatam. Read very carefully. All these things are already explained there.

[aside:] Cut it into pieces and distribute.

Devotee: Swamiji? Should we read, like, one chapter a day or...

Prabhupada: It is very nice if you read one chapter Bhagavatam daily. It is very nice. You make it a point to read one chapter daily. That is very nice.

Devotee: No more?

Prabhupada: No, if you can do more, that's all right. Just like I ask everybody to chant sixteen rounds. But if you can chant sixteen hundred rounds, then who prohibits you? You can do that.

Devotee: What I meant is that...

Prabhupada: But we should make a regulation of our life, that "So many times I chant. One chapter I shall read. I shall go to the temple at this time." In this way we must have routine work. Then we'll get practiced automatically. Yes. And Gosvamins, the six Gosvamins, they were following routine work. Even they...

They were doing regularly counting, just like you are counting sixteen rounds. Not only chanting in that counting, but they were offering obeisances also by counting, that "Hundred times I shall offer my obeisances." You see? This is regular routine. Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Swamiji, can you tell me about what you said, going through the spiritual master, not directly to Krsna; through the spiritual master.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Can you just tell me something about it?

Prabhupada: Spiritual master is the representative of God, or Krsna. Just like if you work in some office, so there is one head man, representative of the proprietor of the company. You have to work under him. If you satisfy that person who is in charge of that department, that means you are satisfying the proprietor of the company. Is it clear? And he can give you direction how to work nicely because he's experienced. The boss.

So spiritual master is external manifestation of God. God is within and without. Within, He is Supersoul. He will give you... If you are sincere, He will give you good counsel, "You do like this." You'll get dictation from within. That requires advancement of spiritual life. Then you get from within dictation. So God is helping from within and without.

Within, as Paramatma, and without, as spiritual master. Both ways. As soon as you are sincere, then God will send you to somebody who is His bona fide spiritual representative. And if you take help from him, and help within and without... Just like a person going..., or a boy going to a school, he's getting training in the school as well as home, both sides. Then his chance is very good.

So we have to take both ways: from inside, from outside. You are doing some things in the service of the Lord. How you'll know that you are doing it properly or improperly? This you will know from the spiritual master. If he says, "It is all right," then it is all right. If he says, "It is not good," then it is not good. Just like the same way: the officer in charge, if he is satisfied [with] your work, that means you have satisfied the government or the supreme company, arranger, with whom you have no direct connection. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado.

Therefore it is said that if you satisfy your spiritual master, that means you have satisfied Krsna. And yasya prasadad na gatiḥ kuto 'pi: and if you have not satisfied your spiritual master, then you must know that you are, what is called, there is no certainty about your whereabouts, what you are doing. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Therefore, dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam vande guroḥ sri-caranaravindam.

So spiritual master is necessary and his direction is necessary. That is the system of disciple succession. In the Bhagavad-gita also, Arjuna is surrendering. He was Krsna's friend. Why he surrendered himself, "I am Your disciple"? You see in the Bhagavad-gita. He had no necessity. He was personal friend, talking, sitting, eating together. Still, he accepted Krsna as spiritual master.

So that is the way. There is a system to understand. It is specifically mentioned, sisyas te 'ham: "I am Your disciple now." Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg 2.7] "You kindly instruct me." And then He began teaching Bhagavad-gita. Unless one becomes a sisya, or disciple, it is prohibited, not to instruct. Not to inst... That instruction is useless. That is the system.

We are instructing in the class because there are few disciples who have taken vow to learn from me. Otherwise, I have no business to teach the public. The public may come, but actual interest is to teach my disciples. But that is secondary. For the public, secondary. But real business is to teach the disciples. Just like Srimad-Bhagavatam was meant for Pariksit Maharaja, Sukadeva Gosvami's disciple. But there were many others present; they also heard. Yes?

Gargamuni: Well, how can we begin to serve you so that you'll be pleased?

Prabhupada: [laughs] That I shall tell you later on. [laughter] Do you think I am not pleased?

Gargamuni: I don't know.

Prabhupada: Oh, you must know it. How can you say that I am not pleased? How you know it that I am not pleased?

Gargamuni: Well, we cause you so much anxiety and everything.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Gargamuni: We cause you so much anxiety due to our faults.

Prabhupada: [laughter] Therefore I am pleased with you. Why I have given up all my anxieties of the sons and daughters who is born by my body, and why I am taking anxieties for you? That means I am pleased with you. [laughter] I am... [indistinct] [end]