Meeting at University – October 6, 1972, Berkeley

721006ME-BERKELEY [25:34 Minutes]

We are therefore presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is without mal interpretation

Co-ordinator of event: Languages and literatures Professor van Buitenen. On the left Professor Jhani, Professor Staal, Professor Goldman. Mrs. Staal, Mrs Jhani, Panḍita Derbhatta.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Panḍita?

Co-ordinator of event: [laughs] Panḍita Derbhatta who is with our department this year and the Professor Judah from the Theosophical Union is also with us. We have asked the Svami to be with us this evening to discuss some of the social aspects of the International Society for Krsna consciousness.

He has favoured us with a paper with some of his commentary on the scriptures regarding the social, political and economic effects and if you would like to make some comment about this and then we would like to discuss these matters with you. We have the paper so we are prepared to ask you some questions. If that is all right with you after you have made your comments.

[pause]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] put it there.

Pradyumna: While we prepare the small sort of quotations from the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad-Bhagavatam pertaining to Krsna consciousness as the universal basis. As the basis of universal spiritual culture and the political, social and economic effects in Kali-yuga and its applications. And begin by ah, quoting and chanting these things from Bhagavad-gita and then Srila Prabhupada will explain in comment.

Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. In explaining the lifestyle of Krsna consciousness from the Bhagavad-gita text [4.13].

Everyone is invited to please join us in the chanting.

Prabhupada: That's all right. So, what is the translation?

Pradyumna: "According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable."

Prabhupada: So this material world is working under three modes of material nature. Goodness, passion, and ignorance therefore in its spiritual nature there is no such qualities. Spirit soul is pure and when the spirit soul comes in contact with matter then the spirit soul becomes influenced by three kinds of material qualities.

Actually we are part and parcel of God so qualitatively God and we are one. He is spirit we are also spirit but we are part and parcel, fragment. God is full, whole and we are fragments. So the example is just like fire and the sparks of fire. The fire is also possessing burning capacity and the small sparks they have also got the burning capacity but not as big as the whole fire.

This is our relationship with God. God has got creative power, we have also got creative power but we are satisfied by creating a sputnik flying in the sky and God has created unlimited number of planets that are floating in the sky. That is the difference between God and us. We have got the creative power we are also trying to fly our sputnik's and we are taking very much credit big, big scientists but we do not want to give any credit to who is floating millions of planets floating in the sky. This is godlessness. So this godlessness is manifested in three qualities.

Those who are in complete ignorance they have practically forgotten what is God. Those who are in the modes of passion, they have got slight information of God and those who are in goodness they can understand what is God. Therefore God says Krsna says, catur-varnyam maya srstam, according to the quality. That there must be four classes of social order the first-class in goodness brahmana, most intelligent class, brahma janati iti brahmanaḥ. Brahmana does not understand only ordinary things but he understands the Supreme the source of everything that is brahmana. The qualities are described there.

[banging sound]. What is that sound?

Devotee: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: The ksatriyas who are supposed to govern over the people they are guided by the brahmanas-that you govern. Brahmana's are not interested, just like you have heard a great politician Canakya Panḍita he was a brahmana. He was prime minister of Emperor Candragupta but he did not accept any salary.

Even say 500 years ago Sanatana Gosvamiand Rūpa Gosvami they were brahmana's but because they accepted ministerial position in the government, at least then it was Mohammadan government Hussain Shah. They were immediately I mean to say rejected from brahmana society. A brahmana cannot accept any salary, similarly ksatriyas also, similarly vaisyas also only the sūdras they can. Paricaryatmakam karma sūdrasyapi svabhava-jam [Bg 18.44].

Sūdra means he cannot live independently he has to accept some master. So these four classes of men must be there. That is our social idea, just like in your body there are four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly the whole social body should be divided into four classes of order. The brahmana class, the ksatriya class, the vaisya class and the sūdra class and education should be imparted in that state. That is our social idea. Your first question was social strive or?

Pradyumna: Lifestyle.

Prabhupada: Lifestyle. So lifestyle-generally a living entity born by father and mother he is considered a sūdra. Just like in ordinary life we send our children to school or college's for knowledge. So janmana jayate sūdraḥ, anyone who is born is ignorant-foolish, otherwise why is he sent to school or college? He is supposed to be foolish. So education means according to the qualities there must be examination by the teachers who is fit for becoming a brahmana, who is fit for becoming a ksatriya, and who is fit for becoming a vaisya like that.

Of course sūdras were not given any education or they were incapable of receiving education. Especially the brahmanas and ksatriyas were educated to guide the social welfare. That is the Vedic system and therefore Krsna says, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ. Guna and karma-not by birth, Krsna says by quality and by work. One must be qualified brahmana by the symptoms, truthfulness, controlling the mind, controlling the senses very simple simplicity of life. Arjavam, jnanam, vijnanam-full of knowledge, vijnanam-practical application is life.

Astikyam-theistic view, in this way one becomes brahmana. Similarly ksatriyas qualifications are described, vaisyas qualifications are also described. The brahmanas qualifications nine, ksatriyas qualifications seven, reducing. Vaisyas qualifications three, krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam, krsi-means agriculture, go-raksya-cow protection that is vaisyas business and the ksatriyas business is to give protection to the citizens, human beings. Similarly the vaisyas business is to give protection to the cows. The cow is very important animal in the society.

Go-raksya, Sri Krsna was Himself a cowherd boy, although He is God but He is teaching us that cow protection is very important item to the society. Krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam the thread, vaisya-karma svabhava-jam. The higher three classes of men are divided like this and the next fourth class sūdras, paricaryatmakam karma sūdrasyapi svabhava-jam. They want some service that's all and according to Vedic culture because in this age there is no other distinction or orders of society therefore they say, kalau sūdra sambhava. In this age Kali-yuga everyone is a sūdra so this is the social or style of life according to our Krsna consciousness movement.

So at the present moment there is a scarcity of brahminical class of men, good brain-one who knows what is Brahma. Janmana jayate sūdraḥ, by birth everyone is a sūdra, samskarad bhaved dvijaḥ.. When we go to the University or accept a teacher, formerly they used to go to gurukula. There was no organised University with payment, no. The students used to go to a brahmana teacher, live with him, serve him and take education, no money requested.

So brahmacari would live as menial servant even if he was son of a King. He would go to the spiritual master and live there as a menial servant whatever the spiritual master, teacher would ask him. So this social order is lacking at the present moment therefore everything is not in order.

Here Krsna says or God says, when we speak of Krsna we say God that, "these four classes of men social orders must be there. It is My creation," and you cannot avoid anything created by God. Similarly you cannot avoid the social divisions, the. I mean to say-orders, meritorious orders-divisions of the society and it is the duty of the government to see that this social orders is going on nicely.

The class of brahmanas are doing their duty nicely, the ksatriyas are doing nicely-everyone should be employed. Nobody should be without any employment-according to the qualities. This is the duty of the government. So lifestyle as a conception is given in the Bhagavad-gita very clearly now you judge whether it is acceptable or not. What is it acceptable? If it was being accepted formerly why not now? So our Krsna consciousness movement is an attempt to create a few brahmanas, brain. Brahmana is considered to be the head;

Vipradayaḥ, purusasya-to accept the Supreme Lord, virat-His universal form. Take this universe as the body as a form of the Lord-virat-rūpa. The virat-rūpa was manifested before Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gita. So the form means. The body means there must be head, there must be arms, there must be belly, there must be leg then it is concluded. For without head what is the meaning of this body? If you have got nice body and your head is cut off then what is the value?

So at the present moment headless therefore there is always disorder nobody is satisfied. Even in spite of advancement of education and economic development, everything disordered because the head is lacking. Or the head has become crazy. So therefore Krsna consciousness movement is trying to rectify that brain puzzle. There is very important movement, just try to understand. That's all. [indistinct]. What do you think Dr. Staal?

Dr. Staal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So it is not my statement, I'm not manufacturing anything. It is statement of Krsna the authority, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. "The Supreme Personality of Godhead He is Krsna." And He is accepted by all the acaryas, from the old days, Vyasadeva He is accepted. Narada accepted, Asita, Devala, that means all the acaryas of India. Sahkaracarya, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, Lord Caitanya and following in their footsteps we have accepting, Krsna. This is our process, mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ [Cc Madhya 17.186].

Maha-janaḥ-great personalities what do they-follow. If we follow then our success is assured but if we manufacture idea because our senses are imperfect however intelligent I may be in the estimation of modern, or common man. After all our senses are imperfect so whatever knowledge we manufacture by our imperfect senses that is imperfect. So we have to accept knowledge from the perfect then it is all right. What is the meaning of receiving knowledge from the imperfect? Bhagavad-gita says, evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ [Bg 4.2].

Parampara-by disciplic succession, perfect knowledge. Just like a father teaches the son, "my dear son this is gold, gold ring." So the child is not perfect but he receives knowledge from the perfect father so when he says, "it is gold ring," his knowledge is perfect. Similarly one may not be perfect but if he accepts knowledge from the perfect then his knowledge is perfect. Our reception of knowledge is not by manufacturing, in Sanskrit they are called aroha-pantha and avaroha-pantha.

Aroha-pantha means one's trying to understand from down and avaroha-pantha means the knowledge is coming from above straight down. So we are therefore presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is without mal interpretation. The tendency is that I can interpret… [end]