SPD01-03 The Ācārya Part 3
SPD01-03
The Acarya Part 3
The Acarya Part 3
[00:12] For a dedicated follower of the Vaisnava religious tradition, Vrndavana, India, is the most sacred place on earth.
[00:19] In 1965, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada left the holy city of Vrndavana
[00:27] to deliver the message of Krsna consciousness to the Western countries.
[00:31] At the request of his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada gave up his peaceful and contemplative life there
[00:37] in order to preach the most profound wisdom of ancient India to the rest of the world.
[00:41] No one could have imagined that in a few short years, Srila Prabhupada would have created a revolution
[00:48] in spiritual consciousness and become the acarya, the spiritual teacher, to so many people.
[00:54] He had founded the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, a worldwide confederation
[01:00] of over one hundred asramas, schools, temples and farm communities,
[01:05] and had made the chanting of Hare Krsna familiar to millions of people.
[01:10] And, he had written and published over eighty volumes of translation and commentary on self-realization,
[01:16] which are now standard in universities and libraries around the world.
[01:21] Srila Prabhupada circled the globe eleven times between 1966 and 1977, and he met
[01:28] countless political, social and religious leaders in scores of countries on every continent.
[01:33] He would speak at great length, and often with considerable intensity, on various subjects.
[01:40] During these discourses, Srila Prabhupada would turn the profound Vedic philosophy
[01:44] into a practical cutting edge that penetrated every sphere of life and thought.
[01:52] Srila Prabhupada taught that there can be no real peace or brotherhood in human society
[01:56] as long as we are murdering our brothers the animals.
[02:00] Nature's laws of karma, action and reaction, ensure that violence is repaid with violence.
[02:07] In other words, "As you sow, so shall you reap."
[02:12] Srila Prabhupada's views were always persuasive, because they rested on systematic logic
[02:17] and sound philosophy. He once said, "Philosophy without religion is mental speculation,
[02:24] and religion without philosophy is sentimentality."
Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou, August 9, 1973, Paris
[02:33] [Cardinal Danielou:] For example, it is necessary, for the food of man, to eat, to eat (animals).
[02:45] [Prabhupada:] Man can eat grains, food grains, fruits, milk, sugar, wheat.
[02:55] [Cardinal Danielou:] Not [French]. No flesh?
[03:00] [Prabhupada:] No. Why?
[03:04] Just like the fruits. The fruits are meant for human being.
[03:10] The tiger does not come to eat your fruits.
[03:14] So tiger's food is another animal. Man's food is fruit, food grains, milk products.
[03:24] [Cardinal Danielou:] But why? Because grain and plants are also living beings.
[03:34] [Prabhupada:] That's all right. That we also understand.
[03:39] But if you can live, just like, generally, if I can live on fruits and grains and milk,
[03:52] why should I kill another animal?
[03:57] Another thing is that how can you support that animal killing is not sin?
[04:09] [Yogesvara translating, in French:] How do you justify that killing animals is not a sin? How do you justify it?
[04:20] [Cardinal Danielou:] Because we thought that there is a difference of nature between life of man,
[04:36] life of spirit, and biological life. And we think that all the creation of animal and of plant is given by God to the man to help the man in order to be [indistinct]. You said..., Your Grace said,
[05:04] that only the spirit is real beings, and the remain is appearance, and not really exists.
[05:19] We think so. We think that animals, plant are not real beings,
[05:25] are world of appearance, and that the human person only is real being.
[05:32] And that in this sense, the material world is without importance.
[05:38] [Prabhupada:] Now, I follow. Suppose you are living in this house.
[05:46] So, you are not this house. That's a fact.
[05:54] But if I come and break your house, is it not inconvenience for you?
[05:59] [Cardinal Danielou:] Yes, surely. Surely it is inconvenient.
[06:02] [Prabhupada:] So if I cause inconvenience unto you, is it not criminal?
[06:09] [Cardinal Danielou:] It is inconvenient to me, but…
[06:12] [Prabhupada:] No. If I cause some inconvenience to you, is it not criminal? Is it not sinful?
[06:25] [Cardinal Danielou:] I think if there is a serious reason, it is not the destruction of the spiritual man itself.
[06:43] By example, it is perfectly possible to use of the reality of the material world, of the natural world,
[07:02] to the valuable finality of human vocation.
[07:11] We think that the question is a question of motivation.
[07:18] It could exist bad reason to kill an animal.
[07:28] But if the killing of animal is to give food to children, men, women who are hungry, it is legitimate.
[07:49] It is difficult to me to admit that in India the cows, it is not permitted
[07:59] to kill a cow to give to children who are hungry.
[08:11] [Prabhupada:] But from any other consideration, cow's milk we drink; therefore she is mother. Is it not?
[08:27] [Cardinal Danielou:] [French] Yes, surely, surely, but the...
[08:32] [Prabhupada:] According to Vedic version we have got seven mothers:
[08:42] adau mata, the original mother; guru-patni, wife of the master, spiritual master.
[aside by Yogesvara: "Can you understand?" (translates)]
[09:00] Adau mata, guru-patni, brahmani, the wife of the priest; raja-patnika, the wife of king, the queen.
[09:19] Four. Adau mata, guru-patni, brahmani, raja-patnika, dhenu. Dhenu means cow.
[09:27] Dhenu, dhatri. Dhatri means nurse. Tatha prthvi. Prthvi means earth.
[09:34] These are seven mothers.
[09:40] So cow is mother because we drink milk, cow's milk. How can I deny that she is not mother?
[09:52] So how we can support killing of mother?
[09:57] [Cardinal Danielou:] Yes, it is a motive. But we think that…
[10:04] [Prabhupada:] Therefore, in India, those who are meat-eaters, they are advised-that is also under restriction-
[10:16] advised to kill some lower animals, like goats, even up to buffalo.
[10:30] But cow killing is the greatest sin.
[10:32] [Cardinal Danielou:] Yes, yes, yes. I know this. I know this. This is for us a difficulty.
[10:43] [Prabhupada:] Yes, because the cow is mother. You take the milk from the mother,
[10:50] and when she is old, she cannot give you milk, therefore she should be killed.
[10:59] Is that a very good proposal?
[11:01] [Yogesvara:] [translates, and Cardinal answers] He says, "Yes, it is a good proposition."
[11:11] [Cardinal Danielou:] If, if the men are hungry, it is the life of men is more important than the life of cow.
[11:20] [Prabhupada:] Therefore, because we are propagating this Krsna consciousness,
[11:26] we ask people to not to eat meat, any kind. But if under certain circumstances
[11:39] you are obliged to eat meat, eat the flesh of some lower animals.
[11:48] Don't kill cows. That is the greatest sin. And so long one will be sinful,
[11:58] he will not be able to understand what is God.
[12:03] But human beings' main business is to understand God and to love Him.
[12:12] But if he remains sinful, neither he can understand God, and what is the question of loving Him?
[12:22] Therefore, at least from the human society, this cruel maintenance of slaughterhouses must be stopped. [Yogesvara translates]
[12:52] [Cardinal Danielou:] I think that perhaps this is not an essential point.
[12:58] I think that in this realm, the users of various religions can be good.
[13:09] The important is to love God, but the commitment practical can be various.
[13:18] [Prabhupada:] Just like God, if God says that "You can do this," that is not sin.
[13:29] But if God says that you cannot do, then it is sin.
Room Conversation, May 1975, Melbourne
[13:40] [Prabhupada:] That is our philosophy, isavasyam idam sarvam . Everything belongs to God. That's a fact.
[13:54] Under the influence of maya we are thinking that "This is my property."
[14:08] Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come?
[14:17] Has anybody produced the wood? Who has produced?
[14:27] It is God's property. Is it not?
[14:33] You are a barrister. You can judge better. [laughter]
[14:38] [Wally Strobes:] That was the argument that he used.
[14:40] [Raymond Lopez:] No, it wasn't quite like that. [laughter]
[14:44] [Prabhupada:] Originally, everything belongs to God. So why we are claiming, "It is my property"?
[14:52] The son must know, "The property is father's."
[14:59] That is the real knowledge.
[15:03] Now, "Whatever father has given me, I will use it. Why shall I encroach upon others', my other brother, which he has got from the father?"
[15:17] This is good sense. "Why shall I fight with my other brother?
[15:24] My father has given him this property to him,
[15:27] so let him use that, and whatever he has given me, let me use it.
[15:33] Why shall I encroach upon his property?"
[15:38] This is good sense.
[15:40] [Raymond Lopez:] I can understand when you say don't encroach on other people's property,
[15:47] and I think, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that
[15:50] if you have something, your father has given you something, and someone
[15:53] else wants to use it, well, let him.
[15:57] I can understand that. But don't you can get to the stage, or can't
[15:59] you get to the stage at times
[16:03] that for some reason or other, you don't want him to use it.
[16:10] [Madhudvisa:] We are believing that everything belongs to God, and if someone else
[16:14] does not believe in that concept and tries to use…
[16:18] [Prabhupada:] That is wrong. That I say. That is his wrong concept.
[16:23] [Wally Strobes:] Well, how do you reconcile, or how do you work out a situation... If everything belongs to God, we have to run society.
[16:46] [Prabhupada:] You don't forget that everything belongs to God.
[16:51] Because you have to run society, it does not mean that you forget the real thing.
[16:57] [Raymond Lopez:] So I really don't object to that idea at all. But the thing is that our...,
[17:04] the system we're working within has got different concepts.
[17:10] [Prabhupada:] Then you should rectify.
[17:12] [Raymond Lopez:] It should be...? Sorry?
[17:13] [Prabhupada:] Rectified.
[17:14] [Madhudvisa:] The system should be rectified.
[17:15] [Prabhupada:] First thing is that everyone should be convinced or understand clearly that everything belongs to God.
[17:25] But they have no conception of God even. That is the difficulty.
[17:32] The whole human society at the present moment, majority, they are godless.
[17:40] Especially the Communists.
[17:44] They don't acknowledge, the scientists, the philosophers, the scholars. All godless.
[17:54] [Raymond Lopez:] But you can't say that scientists are working in a way that is opposite to God's will.
[18:00] [Prabhupada:] Yes. They say. Oh, yes, I have met many scientists.
[18:02] They say that "We shall solve everything by scientific advancement."
[18:07] "We have done already." They say like that. Just like there is big theory, chemical theory.
[18:17] One big scientist-big or small, whatever he may be-he has got a Nobel Prize.
[18:26] [Raymond Lopez:] He's medium sized. He's medium sized.
[18:29] [Prabhupada:] Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemical. By chemical combination, chemical evolution.
[18:41] Darwin's theory is also like that. This is their...
[18:46] Big, big scientists, they are so fool that "Life has come from matter." Where is the proof?
[18:56] One lecturer is in California University, and there was one student, he is my disciple,
[19:06] he challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?"
[19:14] That answer was: "That I cannot say."
[19:18] You're putting this theory that life has come from chemicals.
[19:24] So science means observation and experiment.
[19:28] Now experimentally prove: get the chemicals and produce life.
[19:37] [Raymond Lopez:] They're trying. [laughs]
[19:39] [Prabhupada:] That is another foolishness.
[19:42] When you are trying to be a lawyer, a barrister, that does not mean you are barrister.
[19:47] When you are a student of law, you cannot say that "I am barrister, or advocate."
[19:53] That you cannot say. You are trying to be; that is another thing.
[19:59] But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading.
[20:06] That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, andha yathandair upaniyamanas.
[20:13] One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men. What is the use of such leading?
[20:23] [Raymond Lopez:] But can't you have people doing good for the sake of goodness?
[20:36] [Prabhupada:] He does not know what is good. Therefore I said blind.
[20:43] [Raymond Lopez:] But there are certain things... There are certain things which intrinsically are good.
[20:47] [Prabhupada:] He does not know what is good. Real goodness is to understand God.
[20:50] That is real goodness.
[20:51] [Raymond Lopez:] But there are certain things that you don't…, that are good, that you can accept as being good,
[20:57] just by themselves. You see an old lady who gets run over by a car,
[21:03] you go and help her. Now, there are certain things that are good by themselves, I think,
[21:10] and that people will react and do the good thing,
[21:14] even though they might not have any concept of God.
[21:19] [Prabhupada:] No. Unless you have got the real platform, how you can do good?
[21:28] Just like our Madhudvisa Maharaja was obliged to you. You have done some good in legal affairs.
[21:42] But unless you are a lawyer, legal man, how can you do it?
[21:49] You have a mind to do good. But if you are not a lawyer, how can you do it?
[21:59] [Wally Strobes:] But there would be a lot of lawyers who do good without God.
[22:01] [Prabhupada:] That is another thing. I am talking of yourselves.
[22:04] If one does not know what is good, then how he will do good?
[22:13] The first business is that he must know what is good. Then he can do something good.
[22:20] Otherwise, what is the use of jumping like monkey?
[22:25] So therefore anyone who is posing himself as leader to do good to the society,
[22:33] he must know first of all what is good.
[22:36] But you should see whether you're successful. And what is the standard of success?
[22:43] The standard of success is whether you have pleased God.
[22:49] [aside to devotee:] Read this: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-srestha. Ataḥ pumbhir. Find out this verse.
[23:17] [Srutakirti:] Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasaḥ, svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam .
[23:29] "O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection
[23:33] one can achieve by discharging his prescribed duties, dharma, according to caste divisions
[23:39] and order of life is to please the Lord, Hari."
[23:46] [Prabhupada:] That is it. That should be there.
[23:49] So whether by my profession, by my business, by my talent, by my capacity-
[23:56] there are different categories-whether I have pleased God? Then it is success. [break]
[24:06] India is still-if one has a very good garden and flowers-
[24:13] if somebody goes, "Sir, I want to take some flowers from your garden for worshiping God,"
[24:20] "Yes, you can take." They'll be very glad.
[24:30] [Raymond Lopez:] This man, his livelihood depends on those flowers, and I don't think he…
[24:38] His possessions were more important to him, unfortunately.
[24:44] [Wally Strobes:] It's a funny story. There's a funny follow-up to that one, and that is that the flowers were taken from two men that
[24:53] ran nurseries, and we had to go through an appeal finally, to get home. But just
[25:03] before the appeal came off, the boys needed a glasshouse because of those special plants which you've got outside here.
[25:17] And they didn't know anything about glasshouses, so they're driving around, and one says, "Well, let's go and find out something
[25:24] about glasshouses. Oh, there's a nice nursery." [laughter]
[25:31] So the car drives up, you see. The devotee comes out, and he says, "Excuse me, sir, but we're interested in
[25:40] glasshouses." He said, "Would you please get out of my land." Same nursery. [laughter]
[25:54] Out of two hundred nurseries around the area, he picked that particular one. [break]
[26:00] [Prabhupada:] Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana, sarvair gunais tatra samasate suraḥ,
[26:09] harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna, manorathenasati dhavato bahiḥ .
[26:15] The meaning is that anyone who is God conscious, a devotee, he has got all the good qualities.
[26:28] What we consider as good qualities, he has got.
[26:33] And similarly, one who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualities,
[26:41] because he will hover on the mental platform. There are different platforms.
[26:50] bodily concept of life, generally: "I am this body; therefore, my business is to satisfy the senses."
[27:02] This is bodily concept of life.
[27:07] And others, they are thinking, "I am not this body. I am mind."
[27:16] So they are going on mental speculation, like philosophers, thoughtful men.
[27:25] And above that there is intelligent class of men, practicing some yoga.
[27:37] And spiritual platform is above that.
[27:42] First, bodily concept, gross; then mental; then intellectual; then spiritual.
[27:53] So this Krsna consciousness movement is on the spiritual platform,
[28:01] above body, mind and intelligence.
[28:05] But actually, we should come to that platform, because we are spirit soul.
[28:11] We are neither this body, nor this mind, nor this intelligence.
[28:18] So one who is on the platform of spiritual consciousness,
[28:26] they have got everything: intelligence, proper use of mind, proper use of the body.
[28:39] Everything is there.
[28:40] If I say, at the same time, although he is hero, he must be generous.
[28:46] Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story.
[28:50] He arrested one thief.
[28:54] So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander,
[29:00] the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me?
[29:06] You are a great thief, I am a small thief." [laughter]
[29:12] So Alexander understood it and got him released: "Yes."
[29:19] This is generosity.
[29:21] You must agree to the principle.
[29:25] [Raymond Lopez:] Well, there's another one, the battle. Remember the big battle, where the opposition-
[29:32] what was his name?-was on the ground, and he said...
[29:35] [Madhudvisa:] Abhimanyu was surrounded by the maha-rathis. There was no mercy then.
[29:40] So now Jnana[?] was objecting...
[29:45] [Guest:] Suggesting.
[29:46] [Madhudvisa:] ...that you cannot shoot a man if he gets off his chariot.
[29:50] And Krsna said, "There was no mercy with Abhimanyu, so therefore there will be no mercy now."
[29:53] [Prabhupada:] Tit for tat.
[29:55] [Raymond Lopez:] But where was the generosity then?
[29:58] [Prabhupada:] In war that is happening, tit for tat.
[30:00] [Raymond Lopez:] Was that generosity? Where was the generosity?
[30:05] [Prabhupada:] No. That is war tactics. That is war tactics.
[30:15] [Devotee:] We're going to bring some prasadam for you guys.
[30:17] [Prabhupada:] Give some prasadam for them only.
[30:23] [Madhudvisa:] We invited everyone over to Ugrasrava's house one night. We had a big party,
[30:30] and Wally came, and Raymond came, and they became very much addicted to prasadam. [laughter]
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