SPD04-05 Lecture at St. Pascal's Franciscan Seminary, June 28, 1974, Melbourne

[12:21 minutes]

[02:34] [Prabhupada:] Indriya means senses. We cannot understand what is Krsna, or God-His name,

[02:44] His form, His attributes, His pastimes. We cannot understand by these blunt material senses.

[02:55] Then how it is to be understood? After all, this human life is meant for understanding God.

[03:03] That is the only business of human life.

[03:08] The nature, material nature, gives us this opportunity to have this human form of life.

[03:22] The facility of this life, of this form of life, is given to us just to understand God.

[03:36] Other forms of life-cats and dogs, trees and so many other things; there are 8,400,000 forms

[03:346] of life-so in other forms of life it is not possible to understand what is God.

[03:57] If we call all the dogs of your country, "Come here. We shall talk about God,"

[04:07] no, there is no possibility of understanding. But in the human form of life

[04:15] there is possibility. It doesn't matter whether it is in India or America or Australia.

[04:23] Any human being, if he tries and if he reads the scriptures-never mind, Bible,

[04:33] Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavata-then he will understand God.

[04:39] The beginning of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, janmady asya yataḥ, "Absolute Truth is that

[04:49] from whom everything has come into existence." Now, what is the nature of the Absolute Truth?

[05:01] "Everything" means... There are two things: matter and spirit. Two things.

[05:10] Just like this table is matter. We living entities, we are spirit, spirit soul.

[05:23] This material body is my covering. Just like dress. Every one of us is dressed,

[05:32] covered by some kind of dress. Similarly, all living beings, they are dressed by the material covering.

[05:46] The gross dress of coat and the subtle dress... The gross dress is made of

[05:55] five material elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether,

[06:02] and the subtle dress is mind, intelligence and ego.

[06:07] So we, the spirit soul, part and parcel of God,

[06:14] at the present moment we are covered by two kinds of dresses-

[06:20] the subtle dress: mind, intelligence and ego; and the gross covering.

[06:27] Subtle means we know there is this thing, but we cannot see.

[06:34] Just like you know I have got mind; I know you have got mind,

[06:38] but I don't see your mind, you don't see my mind.

[06:42] I know you have got intelligence, you know I have got intelligence,

[06:46] but we don't see what is that intelligence. Similarly, identification.

[06:54] I am this consciousness, that also you have got consciousness, I have got consciousness.

[07:02] But we don't see. So things which are not visible to these material eyes, that is called subtle.

[07:13] And spirit soul is still subtler.

[07:21] So human life is meant for understanding that spirit soul and the Supreme Soul. [break]

[07:34] [Guest:] Your devotees say that you aim to get beyond the disease of material existence.

[07:41] I didn't quite pick up what your process was for doing this, and could you tell me

[07:47] what the end result is, once you do get beyond this disease?

[07:54] [Prabhupada:] What is that?

[07:58] [Madhudvisa:] In Krsna consciousness, the process is to get beyond the disease of material existence.

[08:05] The first part of his question, "How to do this?" The second part of his question,

[08:09] "What is the end result after taking to the process?"

[08:14] [Prabhupada:] The process is to transfer yourself from material energy to spiritual energy.

[08:28] We are under energy. The God has got two energies-material energy and spiritual energy.

[08:38] We are also energy. We are marginal energy. So marginal energy means we can

[08:48] remain under the material energy or on the spiritual energy, as we make our choice.

[08:57] Marginal... Just like on the beach you find sometimes on the border of the water,

[09:08] the water is covering the land, and sometimes the land is open.

[09:15] This is called marginal position. Similarly, we are marginal energy of God, living entities.

[09:27] So we can remain under the water, means the material energy,

[09:33] or we can remain open also, in spiritual energy. [break]

[09:39] [Madhudvisa:] What is our view of Lord Jesus Christ?

[09:44] [Prabhupada:] Jesus Christ, Lord Jesus Christ, is... He is son of God, the best son of God.

[09:50] We have all respect for him. Yes.

[09:56] Anyone who is teaching people about God consciousness, he is respectful to us.

[10:06] It does not matter in which country, in which atmosphere he was preaching.

[10:11] It doesn't matter.

[10:22] [Madhudvisa:] Yes, sir?

[10:24] [Guest 2:] St. Francis of Assisi founded our [indistinct] rather than utilizing material for God,

[10:30] and St. Francis used to talk about "brother dog" and "sister cat" and "sister water" and "brother wind."

[10:38] And what does His Grace think of St. Francis's approach to this theory?

[10:44] [Madhudvisa:] St. Francis, the founder of this particular order which we have been invited to speak to,

[10:53] found God in the material world. And he used to address the aspects of the material world

[11:00] as "brother" and "sister." "Brother tree," "sister water," like that. What is your view upon this?

[11:08] [Prabhupada:] This is the real God consciousness. This is real God consciousness, yes, not that

[11:15] "I am God conscious, and I kill the animals." That is not God conscious.

[11:26] To accept the trees, plants, lower animals, insignificant ants even, as brother...

[11:37] Samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gita,

[11:43] brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannatma na socati na kahksati, samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu [Bg. 18.54].

[11:50] Samaḥ. Samaḥ means equal to all living entities; to see the spirit soul.

[11:57] So if St. Francis was thinking like that, that is higher standard of spiritual understanding.