Evening Darśana – January 23, 1977, Bhubaneswar

No, I don't want. I'll drink this Ganges water

Prabhupada: He started this rajya hope: "We must have our own land." So he was a very big man, barrister. So one, his friend, he was also brahmana, he felt ill, and he was taking it daily, ganga-snana. So this, his friend, Mr. Bannerjee, he came to see him, that "You bring one doctors." He refused: "No, I don't want. I'll drink this Ganges water." So he never took any help from the brahmanas. But simply drinking Ganges water-cured. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam also it is stated, nartasya cagadam udanvati majjato nauḥ, tavad vibho tanu-bhrtam tvad-upeksitanam [SB 7.9.19]. A doctor medicine is not actually cure. Unless... If somebody is neglected, denounced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, any amount of medicine or good physician will not be able to cure. Father, mother is not the shelter of the children. The things are described in the Bhagavatam.

Indian man (1): Bhagavad-gita also mentions that the mantram ausadham also is Lord Krsna Himself...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): ...in some slokas. Somewhere I…

Prabhupada: In another place, Bhagavatam, it is said, bhavausadhi. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhi chrotra-mano-'bhiramat [SB 10.1.4]. So this Hare Krsna mantra is bhavausadhi, that one must have faith rigidly. Otherwise... Krsna is the protector. In Bengali it is said, rakhe krsna mare ke mare krsna rakhe ke: "If Krsna wants to kill somebody, who can give him protection?" That faith we are losing at the present moment. We are, in India especially, we are born in a country where God descends as Lord Ramacandra, Lord Krsna, Lord Buddha, Caitanya. Now they are asking, "What is God?" So the old culture has to be revived. And this is an attempt, humble attempt, to revive our old culture, Krsna consciousness. We should join together.

Indian man (1): We should.

Prabhupada: To this purpose we are attempting to open a center here. And Mr. Pandiya, how long you are here in...?

Mr. Pandiya: I'm here for the last six months, sir.

Prabhupada: Oh. Before that, where you...?

Mr. Pandiya: Before that, I was at Berhampur.

Prabhupada: So my guessture was right. By seeing your face I asked you as some member of...

Mr. Pandiya: That's a terrific guess.

Indian man (1): That's it.

Prabhupada: Bharati Maharaja may be now about forty years? No. Little more.

Mr. Pandiya: Little more. I am now forty-nine, so he would be about four years younger.

Prabhupada: Four years younger. Yes.

Mr. Pandiya: Forty-five.

Prabhupada: But his health is nice. He looks younger. [pause] So in this book the whole incident is described.

Indian man (1): Whole chapter is described with purports and comments.

Prabhupada: I have given everything in the commentary.

Indian man (2): Sir, everything is described. Only the thing is that we should get the sense and do in our action. That is the whole thing. Our roots are India...

Indian man (1): [interrupting] Sir, how to bathe also it is mentioned.

Indian man (2): [to other guest:] Just a minute. Also India, in our country, in the recent history of our country, we had many cultured peoples like Gandhi and Patel. But how these two men became great, not others? Because only by their actions.

Prabhupada: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.

Indian man (1): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics. We're not after politics so much.

Prabhupada: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brahmanas were the guide: teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brahmanas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the ksatriyas, and the ksatriyas would administer. Brahmanas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Maharaja Prthu. Not that the ksatriyas were irresponsible. No. They were taking guidance from the learned brahmanas, saintly person, and they were ruling over. Maharaja Yudhisthira was doing that. Maharaja Pariksit was doing that. Lord Ramacandra also.

Indian man (3): During the present day, sir, to whom we will treat as brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya and sūdra?

Prabhupada: That I was explaining. According to the symptom.

Indian man (2): Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ [Bg 4.13].

Prabhupada: So actual...

Mr. Pandiya: Vrttam eva tu karanam.

Prabhupada: Yes. Unfortunately, at the present moment there is no brahmana. Kalau sūdra-sambhavaḥ.

Indian man (4): During Prataparudra's time, his raja-guru was Kavidindima Jivadevacarya.

Prabhupada: Yes. Every king.

Indian man (4): And he was his preceptor and minister.

Prabhupada: The Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya also was.

Indian man (4): Prior to Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (4): He wrote Bhakti-bhagavata Maha-kavya, and taking the materials for Tenth Skandha of Bhagavata, the Bhagavata, he wrote a kavya called Bhakti-bhagavata Maha-kavya in thirty-two cantos, in the war field itself. When Prataparudra was on expedition to South, he wrote on the bank of the river Kaveri this Maha-kavya called Bhakti-bhagavatam, containing thirty-two cantos, each canto containing about two hundred slokas.

Prabhupada: Big work.

Indian man (4): And recently we have taken up the editing of this manuscript from our...

Prabhupada: Oh. It was in manuscript.

Indian man (4): Yes.

Prabhupada: The brahmanas were so learned at that time. Therefore brahmanas were addressed as Panḍita, Panḍitji. Still they're addressed. Brahmanas were addressed as Panḍita, ksatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaisyas were addressed as Mahajana, and sūdras were addressed as Chaudhuri.

Indian man (1): Chaudhuri.

Prabhupada: Yes, they're still. In northern India this is the etiquette.

Indian man (2): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupada: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

Indian man (1): Today somebody is a brahmana, tomorrow he's ksatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.

Prabhupada: Udaram bharata. Daksyam udaram bharata [SB 12.2.6]. Bas. Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are daksya. Daksyam udaram bharata. These symptoms are there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaram bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. [laughs] Mandaḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya .

All unfortunate. They have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least twenty-five dollars per week. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: More than that.

Prabhupada: More than that. You were in the welfare department. What is the minimum?

Satsvarūpa: It keeps going up. I think it's more like forty, fifty dollars for one person.

Prabhupada: Forty means, at the rate of nine rupees?

Indian man (2): Nine-fifty.

Prabhupada: No, not fifty. Per week, yes.

Mr. Pandiya: In Western countries they give wages in terms of weeks.

Prabhupada: Yes, weekly.

Indian man (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.

Prabhupada: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gita.

Indian man (3): But, sir, Gandhi told that "You read Gita."

Prabhupada: He did not know himself. [laughs] That is the pity. He has spoken in his Gita lecture that "My imagination of Krsna is different from Bhagavad-gita"; that Krsna is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gita?

Indian man (1): Gita-pravacana.

Prabhupada: Eh? Gita-pra..., is Vinobha.

Indian man (3): What students can do? In the topic of..., what students can do?

Prabhupada: You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. You read Bhagavad-gita as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they do not come in the parampara system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gita. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gita and give their own comment.

Mr. Pandiya: To suit their purposes.

Prabhupada: That's all. This is the dangerous... And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kuruksetra, "this body." Where is the chance of talking of "this body," the Kuruksetra? Has he not?

Indian man (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Where is the dictionary, "the body means Kuruksetra, and Kuruksetra means the body"?

Indian man (3): He has told, karma-ksetra. Kuru-karma.

Prabhupada: So you can drag some meaning. That is another thing. But Kuruksetra is there still.

Mr. Pandiya: [to other guest:] That is, sir, that Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

Indian man (2): That is interpretation.

Prabhupada: That is interpretation. Interpretation... Here is a person in the legal way. Interpretation is required when you cannot understand. Is it not?

Indian man (2): Interpretation... Yes.

Prabhupada: But when the things are understood very clearly, why interpretation?

Indian man (2): It will, rather, confuse.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (2): Suppose I will drag this meaning...

Prabhupada: This was protested by Caitanya Mahaprabhu vigorously. Why should you interpret?

Indian man (4): Yes. He told, the Srimad Bhagavatam is the akrtrim bhasya of prasthana code, Vedanta-sūtra.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, anything, if you can understand very clearly, where is the question of interpretation?

Mr. Pandiya: That's true.

Prabhupada: But it has become a fashion, that "If I can interpret in my own way, I become a big scholar." This is going on. If you have got your philosophy, you can speak. Everyone is free. Why you should take Bhagavad-gita and distort it? Krsna never meant that "In future Gandhi will come," or "Dr. Radhakrishnan will come, and he will explain My ideas." What is this nonsense? Krsna was a foolish person that He left it for Gandhi for distortion? He could not explain Himself that Kuruksetra means this body? Gandhi has to interpret? Do you think it is right?

Mr. Pandiya: Not at all.

Prabhupada: But this is going on. What right you have got to interpret? If Kuruksetra means body, Krsna would have explained that. Was He not learned? He left it for Gandhi, just see. He left it for Tilak. How harmful these interpretations are. That is going on. [end]