Room Conversation with Lalita Bose – August 21, 1975, Bombay

That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge

Prabhupada: [Transl. ...What they say is correct. Alone how much can I preach? So many things are accomplished by them. And we are practically showing. Therefore this mission should be supported, and if she understands this then whole India will be benefitted and the whole world will be benefitted. That is sure. It is not something bogus. It is] exactly what Krsna has said. Our mission... [Transl. We have no other mission. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said,] Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc Madhya 7.128]. That's all. If you speak what Krsna has instructed, you become guru. But if you make your own concoction, own invention, then... [Transl. you will fail. Whatever success we have achieved is because of that.] I don't speak any nonsense; except the instruction given in the Bhagavad-gita. That is my credit. That's all. People say that I have done wonderful, but I do not know any magic. The wonderful thing I have done is that I don't speak any nonsense thing. [Transl. This much I can say with confidence.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose's niece] What you see, you act according to that.

Prabhupada: No, what I learn from Krsna I say. I don't see independently. That is not my business. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction. [break] How? Amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa [Cc Madhya 7.128]. You deliver your village people and become a guru. Everyone is not going to be so big that he can go all over the world. But everyone can teach within his limit-within his family, within his community, within his village, within his town, within his district. As he is capable, he can increase. But everyone can become a guru and deliver the local people. How? Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa. Then you are guru. As soon as you manufacture anything nonsense, then it is spoiled. That is going on. So many gurus are there; they are manufacturing. They are becoming Krsna.

Lalita Bose: We are God.

Prabhupada: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. You cannot become Krsna. Īsvaraḥ sarva-bhūtanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg 18.61]. [Transl. The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart.] [break] Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God. This one instance: isvaraḥ sarva-bhūtanam hrdese 'rjuna tisthati. He is anḍantara-stham-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs 5.35]. He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be isvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within your heart..., er, everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are isvara? Practical. Īsvaraḥ sarva-bhūtanam. Īsvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisthaḥ [Bg 15.15]. [Transl. So these things are to be learned and understood. Actually if we mold our lives on the basis of Bhagavad-gita and people also mold their lives like that then the whole humanity will be happy.] And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. [Transl. This should be conveyed to her.] That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. [Transl. We never say...One book...Where is that book? One book has been published that gurus...] [aside:] Again he has to go? [Transl. They have written about me also and others also. It costs 40 rupees! And they are selling! That includes others' life sketches like when they took birth there was an illumination outside and light within the womb and so on. They did so many miracles, like that. And about me they wrote that I am holding the palm of a boy and teaching him how to write A, A. [The first two alphabets of Bengali language.] This is about me! They didn't write anything like when I was born there was an effulgence, and this had happened, that had happened.] So far as I am concerned, these things are not there. About me, I am... In Dallas I am taking one child's hand and I am teaching them how to write a, a. [Transl. There is no use of showing miracles. Magic, miracles will not do.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Don't last for many days.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Those are nothing! Simply nothing! Knowledge, they have no concrete knowledge. They cannot write books. What will they write? They don't know anything. Can write only if they know things! We have written fifty books! Still writing, here is the Dictaphone! And those who are reading...] Where is that professors...?

Brahmananda: Professor...

Prabhupada: No, all these professors. Those who are purchasing our books.

Brahmananda: Oh, the recommendations?

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Accepting with great respect!] University professors, learned scholars. [Transl. They are saying that this message we never heard. We never had anything like this from India. Otherwise, how we are selling books worth twenty lakh rupees?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Well, Maharaja, one thing they were saying that your publishing work.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. ...if that can be done here in India. That will be very easy. And your world market...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But as soon as I take a quotation here in India they will charge three times more!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Why? That they say ISKCON publishers...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Publishing...Where do we have that kind of machines now? Now the way they are printing, they will print twenty thousand books in a single day. Where are those machines? Still we are...] We have equipped our composing... We compose and send to the press. You know something about our Los Angeles arrangement?

Harikesa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: What is the worth of all those machines?

Harikesa: Oh, the composer itself is worth about seventy-five thousand dollars.

Prabhupada: [Transl. We have purchased machine worth seventy-five thousand dollars.] Seventy-five thousand dollars.

Harikesa: That's just one machine. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There is an article published here about our new Vrndavana project. In November last year. They wrote very nicely about us. And the heading reads "New Vrndavana in America where the Yamuna of spirituality and the rivers of milk and yogurt flow." That's what we are doing! You know Hindi, I believe.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I can read but can't speak.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They have written elaborately about it with photographs. And it was published on the Editorial page. People of America are praising our efforts very much. Their priests are also praising. [aside:] Give me.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Do you have a copy of this book?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Oh, you don't have. Because, when I take them to see the prime minister I will show her that your other gurudeva's remarks about their remarks. And of his...]

Gopala Krsna: August 24th and 31st issue of Nava Bharata Times.

Prabhupada: [Transl. And this is about me.] "Srila Prabhupada instructs a young American student in Sanskrit at the Gurukula." [Transl. First of all I saw the heading. This is what is written about me. I am holding the hand of a small boy and teaching how to write Sanskrit. This is my miracle.]

Lalita Bose: You are changing, absolutely, transforming.

Prabhupada: [Transl. And these people are showing miracles. This Rajneesh is dancing naked!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Rajneesh.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. And he is a guru! They are gurus!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Saibaba is also here I see.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. We don't bluff people like that. We actually teach. And our this...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I must tell you one thing that try here also from village to village. That's what I always tell Bhavananda Maharaja that at least myself, let me start preaching village to village.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Because I have got some source, Guru Maharaja. I am also a devotee of Krsna, a vaisnava. I can do a lot of things from outside.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I heard that your grandmother was a vaisnava. She used to come to our Gauḍiya Matha.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Staunch.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I know.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. My grandmother. There was a temple in Cuttack you know?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. There is a story about my birth. She told my mother that all of your grand daughters will become materialistic, but when I was in the womb, she had a special car as she has to go to the temple, take the prasada, serve to... When I was born, I don't know how I looked like, like Radhaor Lalitasakhi, she named me Lalitasakhi.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh. Your grandmother gave you this name.]

Lalita Bose: [[Transl. Yes. So my mother told me to tell Maharajaji [you] this story. She was in Puri and we used to visit her. Have you ever lived in Puri Gauḍiya Matha or in Cuttack?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Er...I was in Cuttack.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You were in Cuttack. That means you might have seen my grandfather.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, I knew your grandfather very well. Kartik Bose...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. He is our relative.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Your grandfather used to come to Kartik Bose...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. ...to examine his eyes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So at that time, I know Janaki Bose, Kartik Bose were of the same family. I was manager in Kartik Bose's laboratory. I was manager there. I used to treat him like my father. He was a good friend of my father, Kartik Bose. That means your grandfather and my father were of the same age. You are of my daughter's age. So your grandfather was of my father's age. I knew he used to come to Kartik Bose and he was in Cuttack he used to come to our Gauḍiya Matha with your grandmother. I know all that history.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I always seek your blessings. What a sight I saw in Mayapur, wonderful! And your Vrndavana temple is so crowded that there is no space to sit down or stand! Here also the judges and their wives told me that we went and saw with our own eyes that the worship done in Hare Krsna mandir is the best.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Everyone says that. They say that it seems the Deity is directly speaking! Everyone says that.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So I request Guru Maharajaji that let this type of temple be built all over the world. It is possible if we collect funds together. There is no reason why it cannot be done.] They are so impressed, the way they are putting the sankha: conchshell and then, you know, arati. [Transl. Actually the people of north India perform pūja in a little different way. The Bengali system of offering pūja is very artistic.] The same time the door opens and the same time the sankha.

Prabhupada: [Transl. I taught them all that.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Wonderful! They say they have never seen this type of mandir before.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All our temples in America and Europe follow this same system.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You kindly bless me. Actually Indiraji's wish is that you do this in the villages. The village development. The government will extend all financial support.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We are ready right now.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. All we need is sincere, sincere devotee.]

Prabhupada: Sincere devotees. [Transl. I also want that. I need some facility only. If these people are driven out again and again then how the work will go on?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Listen, I met Brahmananda Reddy and told him everything that Guru Maharajaji came to me and I submitted all the these reports to him. And I have started a mission called "Netaji Mission." The aim of...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My only request is that at least let hundred men live here. They will not take a single paisa from India. I will show you the account that they are living here with the money they bring from abroad. Moreover, they don't care about the politics. What have they done that they have to get out? Why? What is this? Is it correct? They won't take a paisa from India rather they will give. Not a single paisa from India they will take.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Let me tell you Maharajaji, how they should work...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Have they come with me here to eat?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. No.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Or have they come to copy how Indians are manufacturing bycycles and sewing machines? Do they lack industries? What do they lack? They have come to learn devotional service to the Supreme Lord. And India will drive them away, is it a good behavior?] They have nothing to do with the politics. [Transl. We are trying to invite everyone from the whole world on the platform of Krsna consciousness. We are creating real United Nation! More than twenty or twenty-five years they are working! What have they accomplished? They are simply distributing prizes, while wars are going on between Pakistan, Hindustan, Vietnam, this and that. What progress have they made? It cannot be.] Panḍitaḥ sama-darsinaḥ [Bg 5.18]. [Transl. Until one becomes a Panḍit, until one has full knowledge how can they see everyone equally?] Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannatma na socati na kahksati, samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu [Bg 18.54]. [Transl. Only when one is in brahma-bhuta platform can he see treat everyone equally. Will they ever unite on this present platform? Remaining in the darkness of ignorance and hating each other with a competitive mentality how can there be unity? Such a huge organization is being run in the whole world and if India government drive out those who are assisting me, it that good conduct?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. She made a mistake. That's what I told her the projects will be failure.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You try to explain this to her that if you continue to do that it will not be a good attitude. At least give me this much concession! And if she cooprates with me regarding villege organization I will prove her how to do it! I will show miracle! Just like this is one miracle they are watching that people of the whole world are chanting the holy name "Hare Krsna," similarly in India also, I will show miracle how to conduct villege organization! I will show in such a manner!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You want hundred of them to stay here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's all. I don't want more. And if they touch politics, if you can show proof that they are involved in any kind diplomacy that are going on at present, immediately they will leave. But that will not happen I know! After all I trained them up personally. They consider such things as insignificant. The fighting of dogs and jackles. We don't pay any attention to such things. We care to remove the doggish mentality. If you collect some dogs and advise, "Dear child, live peacefully." Is that ever possible?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You kindly do the needful by your mercy. Start the projects and the government usually aids three fourth of each scheme and that can be used for your project.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I will do it in such a way...India has got...] I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. [Transl. I repeatedly said this.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You tell her this point.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I already said this. In America the press reporter asked me,] "What is your opinion about this most criti... Yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi?"

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Tell her about that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, it already appeared in the Newspaper! It came in the paper. I said...I said that] Indira Gandhi is spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved. [Transl. I said this about her.]

Lalita Bose: This should be taken with...

Bhavananda: A most important piece of paper.

Prabhupada: [Transl. They published a large photograph of mine. This was published in Chicago.] "Barefoot Swami draws admiring Krsna crowd." And... Read that portion. [Transl. Now in America the public takes me very...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. No, you say that but these people didn't tell me. Someone else came to me from there and he said the] most prominent person in U.S.A. is Prabhupada.

Brahmananda: "Asked about the political situation in his native India and the criticized actions of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the swami replied that 'Mrs. Gandhi is inclined to some spiritual understanding, and if she fully develops it, the situation will improve. Democracy is not much beneficial if its leaders have no spiritual values. Mahatma Gandhi was practically a dictator, but he was a man of high moral character, so people accepted him. Dictatorship can be good, provided the dictator is spiritually developed.' "

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Very good!]

Devotees: Haribol!

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You stay here in India for some more time.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I will stay provided I get your cooperation.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You take it like this. I have even told them that if we have to go to jail, we are prepared.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, why have to go to jail? We are devotees of the Supreme Lord. All we will say is, don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Krsna. That's all we will preach.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I told Brahmananda Reddy that even if you send them to jail you will see the holy names of Krsna will be preached there also! And that is not harmful! He said, no, no, no...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is a very important movement. And if intelligent ladies like you help me then I will stay here. I won't go.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Stay here for a while now for your movement, because unless we get your guidance...We have to ask you everything before we do. They are saying that you take the benefit of Indira's imposing of Emergency. So many things can be accomplished now and that's what people want. I will guide and advice in such a way that the whole India will be benefitted provided she follows my words.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You tell her that you are like my daughter. I know about you. You can say this, nothing to fear. You are a devotee of Krsna and you have nothing to to do with her policies. Tell her you read what I wrote about you. If you do things being spiritually conscious, everything will be like Vinobha.] But if it is the nasty things, the nasty and...

Prabhupada: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Even yesterday I spoke to someone and he said that] she is eager to meet him, so he should talk high level. [Transl. This much you kindly inform her that my students have left everything and that are coming to help develop India!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. So please extend little support as to create that situation.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes. You do that much only. But Maharaja, there is some problem in issuing tourist visa.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why tourist visa?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You want entry visa.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I want that another visa called missionary.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Oh, missionary...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They can live permanently. They have given there also] because I am missionary. They have given me permanent resident in America. I don't require any visa, passport anything.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You must tell her that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. They gave to me only.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes, if that government can give...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It takes a great deal of hassle to secure a permanent residence for an Indian in America. One quick way is to marry a girl of that country and they will give at once. Apart from that they allow a certain percentage of people from other countries, but for that you will have to wait for six years. They have become benefitted by me!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You are doing so much improvement.] Bhavananda Maharaja, we have to note down the point "missionary movement," and what will be the subject. You have to submit one letter. [Transl. Like daughterly. Just like I call her Didi: elder sister, and not Prime Minister. Similarly, you say that "You are my daughter."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, I don't think I should directly say that now because after all she is the Prime Minister. But if she suggests that I should call her my daughter, I will do that.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Well, if she wishes then...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. She is of the same age of my daughter. My eldest daughter was born in 1921. When were you born?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Mine '29.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. '29. So you are much younger. And Indira's birth?]

Lalita Bose: She is now fifty-seven.

Prabhupada: Fifty-seven.

Devotee (2): 19...

Prabhupada: Eighteen?

Devotee (1): I think 18 or 19.

Prabhupada: 18-19. [Transl. She is two years younger than my daughter.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. If you promise here that...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I am prepared to cooperate in every way. For India's spiritual improvement I am ready to do everything. Juta selai theke canḍipatha: from mending shoes to offer prayers to goddess Canḍi. From cobbler to brahmana, anything!]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Another question they had was... She will most probably ask you this question. She is discussing about what she is going to ask you. She will ask Guru Maharaja one question and that is how could you help about foreign exchange, for the development of India? In that context she wants to say that spirituality will remain intact but work on progress must also be there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Foreign exchange I am already bringing. All my property here I have brought from abroad. Nothing from here. Whatever money I require for my mission here I am bringing from America. I am bringing millions of rupees. We have got bank accounts, you can see.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I told her that everything is open.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All money is in the bank.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. She wonders wherefrom the money comes!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The amount is huge! How it is... "Can you prove?" And I said, yes. You can send immediately. Everything is in open.]

Gopala Krsna: I have all the receipts with me from the bank transfers.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Everything is through bank. Even one paisa is accounted for.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. If you agree to at least give a month to settle them down. Those who are going let them go. But to others, kindly issue entry visa, and also the missionary visa which you were talking about a little while ago...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I told Brahmananda Reddy and I am telling you also that do something about it so that I will be somewhat in peace, otherwise how will I manage such big, big institutions which I have created! The whole thing will be spoiled. I feel so bad about that.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. What you are doing is just wonderful! Besides, for us it will take some time to do as thay are doing. The kind of hardship they are undergoing. ]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are hearing and following seriously, that's all! I hurriedly came here because our science...] This is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gita, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,

Rajarsayo. It is meant for the rajarsis. So Indira is in the position of raja. If she becomes a rsi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That you kindly explain to her.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Certainly I will tell. That's why I have come running.] "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a rsi.

Lalita Bose: No, she is full of humility... [Transl. That much I can tell you, Maharaja. She has sufficient humility.]

Prabhupada: Then not only the people of India will be benefited but also the whole world will be benefited. And you have got that sampatti: treasury, Bhagavad-gita guidance. I will not manufacture anything. That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge, without any experience. We are not that type of...

Lalita Bose: [Transl. We must not forget to bring that book with us.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, we will.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That book will...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. See, how we are feeding people!]

Lalita Bose: Yes. These things... You know, Bhavananda Maharaja, we have to set everything. When I phone, we should be ready.

Prabhupada: You make a file. Whatever she says, make a file and keep that.

Lalita Bose: Good to be have to, yes.

Prabhupada: [Transl. See, so many people we are feeding daily. Two thousand people. Not just in one centre but in all of our centres. But we don't take any credit for that.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. One thing, do you have any objection if government gives you any scheme.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Objection I have because government doesn't know any scheme.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. No, no. They will give you some funds in your credit...Just like they give money to Ramakrsna Mission but we know it is being utilised. If ISKCON does something like that...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We will give account for each and every paisa.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. If ISKCON does a similar thing then we can name it "India Organization." And they can admit for the Organization.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, they will do very nicely. They are expert! And whatever money you give we will give you account for each paisa. If asked we will provide account for each paisa. You just give us facility. Even if you do not extend any monitary help we will beg from abroad and bring. Only give us the facility to do our work.]

Lalita Bose: [aside:] We have to note down what he is saying. That's why I told... That will be written in short letter from Guru Maharaja to Prime Minister. And it is to be...

Prabhupada: Anyone can? You can read Hindi?

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Read it.

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Although...]

Prabhupada: You can go on, go on reading.

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Although by talking with you over the telephone we received informations about New Vrndavana, but here the densely forest areas are so aloof that only after a great deal of difficulty we could reach there. This place is so remote that the nearest villege which has a post office is Mounsville and even after inquiring from a few local people there we could not ascertain which was the right way? After passing about one and half to two miles of the hilly road we reached here. After arriving here we understood that we have reached the asrama of the western devotees of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The Matajis were wearing sari and blouse and constantly chanting Hare Krsna mantra on bead bags. By behaviour, dealings and the process those ladies were following with devotion it appeared they were personified Miras. [aside:] Mirabai. Many of them were engaged in cooking in the kitchen varieties of milk and sweet based foodstuffs for the residents of the asrama the guests. Usually the residents of America cannot stay without travelling here and there on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore on Sundays, despite travalling hundreds of miles by car, they visit tourist places in large numbers for enjoying life. The same thing happens in New Vrndavana also but here the atmosphere is spiritually surcharged unlike other places.]

Prabhupada: Go on. Go on reading.

Gopala Krsna: [continues reading Hindi.] [Transl. In other tourist places the visitors have to pay five to ten dollars for food and a bottle of water, but in New Vrndavana they welcome and serve ten to twelve nourishing love feast preparations for the guests.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Means ten to fifteen types of varieties. And not a single paisa is charged. That is what they want to say. If they go to a hotel they will charge you ten dollar. On the other hand they serve you many nice foodstuffs.]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Fruit juices, dry fruits, milk sweets, as well as varieties of items made with milk instantly reminds one of Mathura and Vrndavana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Luci: puri, kachori, rabri [condensed milk], sandesa [sweet made from curd], rasagulla, peḍa, in abundant quantities.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Will such a thing ever happen here in India, you tell me?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Milk we get daily, 1,000 pound, Vrndavana. Who will drink and how much? Only two hundred people! These press reporters of Nava Bharata Times, who went from here, saw with their own eyes and wrote this huge article, it is no false propaganda!]

Gopala Krsna: Now, from this August 24th till 31st, "Dharmiyant" is bringing up two big articles on us on Janmastami, to do a series. August 24th issue and August 31st, two very nice articles on us are appearing.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Those very people who ate beef are now doing goraksya: protecting cows!] Krsi-goraksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma-svabhava-jam [Bg 18.44]. [Transl. In the Bhagavad-gita this is mentioned. I am teaching all these things. Why it cannot happen in India? Why?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Why it cannot happen. We have got the ingredients, all we need is a guide!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Things are ours! People are being misguided only. You come again. You are very influential. You stay well and I also stay well.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. No, I surrender unto your lotus feet completely. That's all. Only my mother is little...She quite elderly. And you know how the daughter-in-laws do not take much care nowadays. But she is very devoted! She said, tell your Guru Maharajaji...It is your duty. He is not here, so they are all your brothers!] "You go away." My mother told that "You leave me. Krsna will look after me."

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is her age?]

Lalita Bose: Seventy-six.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Your father was... Subhashbabu was older.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. My father was the third brother. Yes, he was the eldest.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The youngest one?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. The second last.] My mother is very spiritual. [Transl. "Guru Maharajaji is not here now, you must go and tell Indira."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I think one of your uncles live in Bombay.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes. He wants to...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He came here.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes. He lost his vision after his eye operation.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Your uncle and aunt came here to meet me.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. He told me to inform him when Guru Maharajaji comes to Bombay. In whichever way you would like me to work, because yesterday her secretary told me that you might be tired after your journey. So Lalita should phone us after Guru Maharajaji comes. Suppose suddenly if you give time today in a hurry, therefore if I phone him now...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Time we have to fix, no?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. For that he said according to. If Prime Minister thinks that she should meet you alone in her house, that's up to her. I told him that wherever she prefers to meet. Now we cannot choose a place. You are a vaisnava!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I just need a little bit of time to talk.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I told her 10 minutes. Nowadays for a Prime Minister to spare 10 minutes is too much. If she allows you 10 minutes and if she happens to like you then there will be no time limit!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's all.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I think Maharajaji, if we stick to our endeavour and during emergency this much I can understand that the file is running very quick. And in Calcutta the letter Tarunbabu had written, from that it seems he is very interested about Narayani and her husband. If they leave...That's why I went to Tarunbabu, but his room was filled with MLAs as lot of politics was going on. He immediately said, Lalita has come, All of you get out now. I know you are a vaisnava, but you have to...] I have written to Brahmananda Reddy and copied it, because I am going to Prime Minister. [Transl. I will have to show them that Tarunbabu also... But he said I can go but your relationship with her is more close.] You go personally. And I will also carry your letter. So he was also...

Prabhupada: [Transl. Is he older than you or what?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Not older than me. His wife is close friend and we used to do kirtana together.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. His wife's father was my class friend.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Tarunbabu repeatedly told me that bring Maharajaji him anyhow. Because if he is here now then we can together do something...Besides, everybody knows you are American guru.] Yesterday somebody came to me when I am... [Transl. Just imagine how Central Intelligence is working! To know where I am! They asked, whose house is that? I said, Mr. Badiraja house. [Transl. Guru Maharajaji is Indian or American?] Thrice they phoned from the Prime Minister's office. [Transl. We are are telling them, he is a Bangali: Bengali after all! From where? I said from there, Calcutta, West Bengal!] And I know, my grandfather knows him, and I told this. [Transl. They are thinking that you are some American Guru.] And again and again they are phoning. I said, "No, no." [Transl. Therefore she will meet you with lot of interest. I will keep asking her to grant more and more facilities in a very dignified way. I will tell her that he is an important person and so kindly give her some more time. Maharajaji wants to talk to you. One thing you should know for sure that if she is impressed then she will not look back or front.] What she will feel? She has got that power.

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why I know that she is spiritually inclined, therefore I said it to that reporter.] "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." [Transl. I said that. I don't treat her as other people do.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I also know her so closely that I understand her nature very well. Otherwise none can take such a stunned attitude.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. His father Jawaharlal Nehru. I had a shop in Allahabad, pharmacy. Prayag pharmacy. Very big shop. And he was my customer. We had very cordial relationship. Of course he was older than me, still we were very familiar.] By 1928 when Motilal Nehru became Congress President... [Transl. In Calcutta...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes, in 1928.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You remember? At that time I wrote to Panditji,] "Dear Panditji, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." [laughs] In reply he said, he then and there gave VT "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are already...

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Ok, another thing they want to know about you is...This you don't have to give her, I am going I will give her, your life history.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My life history, in my childhood...]

Lalita Bose: You born... When Guru Maharaja born? [Transl. That they want because...]

Gopala Krsna: 1896.

Lalita Bose: ...somebody has reported that he is American and this and that.

Prabhupada: No. [Transl. I was born in Calcutta.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. No what I mean is many organizations are after ISKCON. And one of them is Ramakrsna Mission. In all their administration offices many Maharajas and Sai Babas are sitting down as officers.] You know I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, you know, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending. [Transl. Only yesterday I came to learn that Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. Somebody is Ramakrsna bhakta. He is Marathi...er...South Indian.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mani. Mani is south Indian.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. But so far nothing has come to Indira Gandhi against ISKCON.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No report so far?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes.] There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But just I mention that you must fit to see her?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. If it is today it will be in a hurry. And it's not possible today anyway.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Today, it's already late. We don't know when. Maybe tomorrow morning?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I will inform her that now she has the right...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But tomorrow, not in the afternoon, because after 12 noon onThursday is barabela: inauspicious time.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So afternoon is suitable.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. Afternoon is not auspicious. You know in Bengal.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. What time barabela starts?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Don't you remember what D.L. Roy wrote? "Para ta janmiyanako brhaspatibarera barbela: if possible, do not take birth in the Thrusday afternoon."] [laughs]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Then the day after tomorrow can we meet?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why day after? Tomorrow is Thrusday.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Afternoon means between what time to what time?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Afternoon means after 12 no more. Tomorrow morning is possible. Morning is okay. Or at night possible. But not at that time.] Between twelve to end of the day. [Transl. That is not good time. At night is possible. Or tomorrow morning is okay. We do have prejudice that Thrusday afternoon is not...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So you guide me as your own daughter.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are of my daughter's age.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That's all. Whatever you instruct me.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You get an appointment first. Indira Gandhi has got a] position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. [Transl. Actually our mission is] Imam rajarsayo viduḥ. [Transl. What will the third- class, fourth-class people understand?] Third-class fourth-class people, they cannot understand Krsna consciousness. Rajarsayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand.

Lalita Bose: You must have that quality to understand Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Like that Krsna is instructing everyone, but the beginning is Imam rajarsayo viduḥ] [Bg 4.2].

Find out this verse.

Iksvaku-raja. [Transl. Iksvaku-raja was the first family descendents of Ramacandra.] ...originator of the dynasty of the Sūrya-vamsa. [Transl. There are two Ksatriya dynasties,] Sūrya-vamsa and Candra-vamsa.

Harikesa: sri bhagavan uvaca imam vivasvate yoga proktavan aham avyayam vivasvan manave praha manur iksvakave 'bravit [Bg 4.1] "The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku." Evam parampara- praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ [Bg 4.2].

Prabhupada: Imam rajarsayo viduḥ.

Harikesa: Sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastaḥ parantapa.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You see, it says here, rajarsayo viduḥ, sa kaleneha yogo nastaḥ. When the rajarsayas or saintly kings gave up, for whatever reason it might be, immediatly India's culture got lost. Now if Indira becomes a rajarsaya then] "It can be revived. Now I can help you." This is my point. [Transl. He says clearly...] sa kaleneha?

Harikesa: Kaleneha mahata yogo nastaḥ parantapa.

Prabhupada: Yogo nastaḥ paran... [Transl. When rajarsayas gave it up neglectfully and the third-class, fourth-class people began to discuss Gita immediately yoga nastaḥ parantapa, the spiritual knowledge was lost. When these third-class, fourth-class people who know nothing about spiritual science, will discuss spiritual topics then everything is finished. Actually we have a prescription that unless one is a Brahmana he cannot touch the Veda. What does it mean by brahmana? Brahmana means by qualification. Just like, we have a rule unless you are a graduate, you cannot enter into a law college. It is not a restriction.] It was the primary qualification that one must be a graduate; then he can understand what is law. Similarly, if one is actually brahmana by qualification, then he can understand what is Vedas. Similarly, Krsna was interested to speak to the rajarsis. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan. He told to the... First of all He spoke to Vivasvan, the king of the sun planet. That picture is there?

Gopala Krsna: Yes. It's in the Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that... If you take history of Bhagavad-gita, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gita. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate, because Brahma's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmano viduḥ [Bg 8.17]. So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years, and multiply by it one thousand. That is Brahma's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvan Manu's age can be calculated-at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gita is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to the Vivasvan, the sun-god." Yes, show him. [Transl. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. If Indiraji takes it seriously then a wonderful thing can be created. Everything is written. It is not that] I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gita and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gita says, annad bhavanti... Parjanyad bhavanti bhūtani [Bg 3.14].

Make this program, immediately.

Lalita Bose: The action will start.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Maharaja has done.

Prabhupada: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic and, what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.

Lalita Bose: Fear.

Prabhupada: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-mela all these Mayavadi sannyasis, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Krsna sakti vina nahe nama pracara. [Cc Antya 7.11] One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Krsna-sakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. [aside:] Have you got Caitanya-caritamrta?

Gopala Krsna: Krsna sakti vina nahe pravartana.

Prabhupada: Nama pracara.

Gopala Krsna: "Lord Krsna's energies..."

Prabhupada: And krsna bhajanate nahi jati-kuladi vicara. [Cc Antya 4.67] These are all Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... What is that?

Harikesa: Is that Madhya-lila?

Prabhupada: In the Caitanya-caritamrta. Here.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. All she needs to do is follow these things. Automatic you will be...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Automatic means...] Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. Just surrender to Krsna and follow Him. Then you are successful.

Lalita Bose: And I will tell her.

Prabhupada: Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktaḥ pranasyati [Bg 9.31]. He says, "Kaunteya, take it for granted that My devotee will never be vanquished." Then you have to disbelieve all these words or you have to believe these words. There are two things. If you believe, then you are successful. If you don't believe...

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Let your meeting be a spiritual one.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Of course spiritual! We have nothing to do with politics.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. You tell her all this. I will tell her that I requested Guru Maharajaji that you have done so much in the Western countries now kindly you stay in India for some time. And he has especially come to you leaving aside everything else] to cooperate with you to establish a good life.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is actually my intention. Otherwise I have cancelled a very big, big...

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes. I know that very well. She told me actually "Can he cancel it?" Who can come from Canada immediately? So she is eager to meet you.]

Prabhupada: No, I am not dependent on anyone. I can cancel, accept anything. [laughter]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So Maharajaji, this one thing...] When he is meeting, only one, small, as a spiritual guide. You know. And...

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. If she asks I can meet her alone also.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. It will be better if I am with you, Maharaja.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You too can be there. And one or two others.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Later on, only one person as they said, the photographer, with permission of the prime minister. I wish she meets you alone and have a photograph together-three of us. Write the names of the two presons.]

Jayapataka: The photographer can stay outside in the waiting room, and if they give permission, then we can enter.

Prabhupada: They can go, but when I meet, I'll take two, two secretaries.

Lalita Bose: I have to tell precisely. "He is accompanied, two secretaries."

Prabhupada: Two secretaries, that's all.

Lalita Bose: And allow them with camera.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Lalita Bose: Allow the camera.

Brahmananda: The camera can be afterwards.

Lalita Bose: Oh, after.

Brahmananda: Because Prabhupada will be preaching, and he doesn't like photos taken while he is preaching. Also, it may be possible to record the...

Prabhupada: No, you can take. What is there? You can take photograph. You? Or you?

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: So these two persons will be...

Jayapataka: Bhargava is also there, if they allow him after it's over to come...

Prabhupada: After that, yes.

Brahmananda: What about tape record? We could tape record the session also.

Lalita Bose: They don't want that.

Prabhupada: No, that's all right.

Lalita Bose: They said no.

Prabhupada: No, she has got political situation, so that's all right. We should not record. We shall talk, and photo can be taken. That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Then you tell her one point...You are giving her a letter, you have to give her a letter. And the meeting will be based on that. You are the head.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Letter...] Where is my, that letter, I wrote one?

Brahmananda: To Indira Gandhi?

Prabhupada: Yes. I wrote one letter. When this trouble was there, so it came to my mind that "Why there is trouble? All the leaders can follow Bhagavad-gita, and then things will be all right." So I sent that letter, Indira Gandhi letter. Here. What did I write?

Brahmananda: "Your Excellency Srimati Indira Gandhi." This is dated July 1st, 1975, from Evanston, Illinois.

Prabhupada: Wherefrom I wrote it?

Brahmananda: From Chicago.

Prabhupada: Chicago.

Brahmananda: "May it please Your Excellency, enclosed please find one copy of my letter addressed to Sri Jaya Prakash Narayanji. I wish that both of you may sit together and agree to join together to work on the basis of the instructions given in the Bhagavad-gita. It is practical and good for India as well as for the whole world situation. The whole world is expecting to receive something from Indian culture. Why not push this movement and solve the complete problems of India? I hope you will take this suggestion seriously and do the needful without delay. Thanking you in anticipation. I beg to remain..."

Prabhupada: So letter is already there.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Now Jaya Prakash Narayan's situation is different, you understand. You cannot give this letter now. You left everything and came here and she is also waiting. So if both of you together meet...For that they are asking a letter. You may speak to her verbally, but verbal speech will not work. Suppose someone else comes to meet her and she forgets everything about your talk. Now her mental condition is very bad after Mujib's [Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. Former president of Bangladesh] incident. She is very unbalanced now. What I mean to say is that the matter you are going to discuss with her if that is given in the written form then on that basis ISKCON's work can be accomplished.]

Prabhupada: So now what shall I write?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Those same points you were just explaining.] Wonderful points. [Transl. That I have left everything and come to you, the world...] You know what... "He was busy for the world organiza..., but he has left everything."

Prabhupada: So shall I refer to your name?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes. That she arranged the meeting and I want stay here and help you in this situation by cooperating to establish.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So take dictation.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Then on that basis the work will start. Otherwise only meeting, many people will come, then the talk will remain in the air only.]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Simply talking will not yield anything.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. It won't work. It floates in the air only. Acarya's words carry weight.]

Prabhupada: So "Your Excellency, Srimati Indira Devi..." Indira Gandhi or Indira Devi?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Say as Indira Devi.]

Prabhupada: "Indira Devi Gandhi, when I was in Canada, in..." Montreal?

Brahmananda: Toronto.

Prabhupada: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Srimati Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation..."

Brahmananda: Sent me...?

Prabhupada: "One intimation that you wanted to see me."

Lalita Bose: No, I approached her. [Transl. Here you write that I approached her.]

Prabhupada: "She approached you for meeting with me..., with you for a meeting"?

Gopala Krsna: "For me."

Prabhupada: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Krsna consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Krsna's instruction in the Bhagavad-gita. Actually, this Krsna consciousness movement is called sahkirtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Krsna movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Krsna. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Krsna consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."

Lalita Bose: [Transl. One more point you add here.] "And for the development of this country I can bring foreign exchange for..."

Prabhupada: No, why this?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. If you don't say that...That will be very helpful.]

Prabhupada: "So we have already about six branches in India..."

Jayapataka: Eight.

Prabhupada: "Eight. And all the development is being done by foreign exchange. So it can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection."

Lalita Bose: "I need your advices for this development." [Transl. She has got some ideas regarding development. Oh yes! Guru Maharajaji, here you mention that Gandhian villege program we are already doing and we will expand it] with the help of government in villages.

Gopala Krsna: I... I just had one point. In my speaking to Ministers also, even when we tell them we are bringing huge amounts of foreign exchange from abroad, they at once say, "But how do you get this money abroad?"

Prabhupada: We sell our books.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. So I was thinking maybe we could add a line or two on your books, that the foreign exchange is obtained.

Prabhupada: Yes. "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages on Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasamrta- sindhu, and these books are very popular in the foreign countries, Europe and America."

Lalita Bose: Is a biggest seller, I think. [Transl. There is highest demand for this. Let that be mentioned here.]

Prabhupada: There is no record in the whole world. That religious books are selling twenty lakhs now, it is no record.

Gopala Krsna: Back to Godhead alone has done that.

Prabhupada: So...

Lalita Bose: You make...

Prabhupada: That's all right. "And by the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange here." So I came here that she wants to see me, then why you are getting from me in writing?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Now what really happened? I have to place the real fact. I don't know what they have told you on the phone.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who are they?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I came from Delhi when I received a letter from them. So I first said, Hare Krsna Society. She then asked, who is Guru Maharajaji? I actually came to talk for them. But then I had to change things upside down.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then will it be proper to write all these things?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Yes, otherwise, next time your meeting...In this, you have only mentioned spiritual subjects.]

Prabhupada: Read it. Read it, what I have said.

Brahmananda: "Your Excellency Srimati Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Srimati Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with you for myself. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Krsna consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad-gita. Actually this Krsna consciousness movement is called the sahkirtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Krsna movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world."

Prabhupada: Everyone in India.

Brahmananda: "In India everyone should become a guru."

Prabhupada: No, no. Not in Indi... "Everyone should become a guru."

Brahmananda: "His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Krsna. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Krsna consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages, such as Srimad-Bhagavatam..."

Prabhupada: "Four hundred pages each."

Brahmananda: "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti- rasamrta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries, Europe and America. By sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange."

Prabhupada: That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I approached you. You didn't come running. I approached you that meet with Guru Maharajaji then our development in India will be fruitful. On that basis, you understand?]

Prabhupada: So you can give this letter to Lalita.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Type it first. Then I say] I think I will go to P.M's office and give it to [T.N.] Seshan and make an appointment.

Gopala Krsna: You want to give the letter?

Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?

Lalita Bose: I don't want that he should do. [Transl. I want that you will meet only. The letter I will personally hand over to Shesan, her secretary and take an appointment. Isn't that better? Why should you go personally to deliver the letter and get an appointment? And on that record ISKCON's work will continue.]

Prabhupada: That's all. Read again, if there is to be corrected. Just hear, everyone. [Transl. You too hear it.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Me too...] [laughs]

Brahmananda: "Your Excellency Srimati Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Srimati Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with myself."

Prabhupada: "With me. "

Lalita Bose: "With me."

Prabhupada: "A meeting with me and you."

Gopala Krsna: Should we state "Miss Lalita Bose" or just "Miss Lalita"?

Lalita Bose: No, Lalita is written, that's all. She knows me.

Brahmananda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Srimati Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with me and you, and I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Krsna consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Krsna's instruction in Bhagavad-gita. Actually this Krsna consciousness movement is called the sahkirtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Krsna movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Krsna. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Krsna consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely"?

Prabhupada: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?

Lalita Bose: "Well-wisher."

Prabhupada: "Your well-wisher."

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Oh you! If she gets your little touch...I mean she has the capacity.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why I came! She has it in her. Only she needs to be guided. You help a little. If she correctly follows. These are not my words. These are Bhagavad-gita's words. All one needs is to understand correctly. Then it will be successful. It is not that I have manufactured something new. No.] Word is already there. Sadhu sastra guru vakya, tinete kariya aikya. [Prema-bhakti-candrika. 2.6]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So now you take some rest. You must be tired. Guru Maharaja, another thing is that with two of us this person can also go...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. All of them can go. Then when I go to meet her at that time one or two persons can go in with me.] So immediately type it and give it to her.

Jayapataka: Where it says that "I am bringing foreign exchange" in the end, "by selling my books I am bringing foreign exchange," it's for India's development work?

Prabhupada: For developing my scheme here.

Jayapataka: And Gopala Krsna mentioned the point that... We're bringing the foreign exchange. Whether there should be any word that also signifies that we have local support also?

Prabhupada: Local support, that is understood.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. It would be better if you mention you have got local support. Because here also people are receiving you well.]

Prabhupada: So our "books popular in foreign countries as well as in India." We are getting money also by these books. [Transl. Otherwise here no one is giving us much.]

Brahmananda: We have quotations from professors in America and also India.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And which, we will take this one. [Transl. And the one from that Professor about his books.] You will give one Gita in your writing to... You will present Gita. And you lead your life according to these teachings. [Transl. That's all. Keep this as base] She is full of bhakti. But she needs good guidance. Anandamayi Ma is doing, but she can't come to her. [Transl. But if she receives your guidance that will be very practical guidance.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If they agree to take my guidance then] I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gita, her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. [Transl. That I cannot mention here. That I can do if they agree. Because I want...Our point is] Imam rajarsayo viduḥ [Bg 4.2]. I wanted a rajarsi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rajarsi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, His movement became very successful when Maharaja Prataparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Asoka, Maharaja Asoka, took it. It requires. And Krsna says, rajarsayo viduḥ.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. I think Guru Maharaja, she has already received some information about you. From that interview what is going on everywhere through] Central Intelligence. [Transl. When she will understand that you have got so much power and influence abroad, she is very clever.] She is very cunning.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Very clever otherwise...]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. The moment she will understand that you can be of great help to her, and she is expert in utilising others talent. She is not that kind of person as people talk about her. She has devotional attitude.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That I know otherwise why should I talk about her in the press interview?] She is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these four American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment, and all the svamis and yogis who went there simply exploited them. Because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Krsna. That is their defect. That is their defect.

Lalita Bose: They have become Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. So therefore they could not give any...

Lalita Bose: Everybody is Bhagavan.

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Lalita Bose: If you go anywhere, he is Bhagavan.

Prabhupada: He is Bhagavan.

Lalita Bose: Now full Kali. [Transl. Now Kali-yuga is in full flow.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And because of them our Indian culture has been lost.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Let me give you another news that I go everywhere. And wherever I went I saw your organization and I felt so happy!] Everybody is busy with their duties.

Prabhupada: Ah, they are engaged.

Lalita Bose: No time to talk.

Prabhupada: I don't allow them to sit down.

Lalita Bose: At other asramas you go and see... I go every asramas. So I reported that now you catch all the sadhus.

Prabhupada: [Transl. That will be good because bogus people are posing as sadhus and...]

Lalita Bose: I'm giving a secret letter that "All the black-marketeers with them, sitting, chatting and patting, and you catch them. Then all the smugglers you will get." [Transl. Sai Baba is the main one. He took 3 crores of rupees from a lady and asked her to stay with him. I warned her don't bring money because the moment he takes your money] He will throw you out. And he is exploiting that girl, and I have got a picture, very bad picture, with her. [Transl. That I will give to Prime Minister. Look, this is today's "Bhagavan Satya Sai Baba!"] So she is very..., she hates him. [Transl. And now our main job will be, let me tell you,] I have seen Satya Sai Baba. I know he is, what type of man he is. [Transl. If we start the village program then government will have trust on us.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are welcome. I will train you. You don't have to go anytime. If she wants to go and see then she can go to foreign countries. If she says spread Krsna consciousness to the foreign countries then it will very nice, wonderful.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That you convince her.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That I will train.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. This silly misunderstandings about us...The amount of influence I have...I know that. Besides, if they find out what personality you are!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. These people will do everything. I don't have to do.] Thousands of Americans will do that. Thousands.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. So somehow or other you have to stay in Mayapur or Vrndavana wherever your health remains good.] You just sit there and write.

Prabhupada: Oh yes! If you take my guidance I'll stay. Our guidance means on the basis of Bhagavad-gita. I don't manufacture. That is my...

Lalita Bose: [Transl. This much I can tell you Maharaja, because even at 2 AM at night I go to your Krsna Consciousness. About three years ago Indira Gandhi told me that you wait there and catch all of them at night. Why do they type at night! They are CIAs! At that time Prasad Bose was in charge. Then I explained to Prasad Bose you don't go, I will personally go wherever I have to at 2 AM at night and give you all the reports. Then at London street I had a friend, MR. K.R. Patel's wife who is a follower of Sai Baba, I told her that I will stay here you give me a car. And I have already sent all the reports to the prime minister already] This is my experience about Prabhupada's of the ISKCON. I am a layman... [Transl. I don't belong to ISKCON. I am an outsider. Then they asked me a question.] How you are writing on behalf...what you are. I am the Life Member one of. [Transl. Later on I told this to Bhavananda Maharaja that I will explain everything to Guru Maharaja. Unless you are something you cannot write. I am a member of the Advisory Council. Indiraji obviously asked me "who are you? A member?" "I am a member of that Council." "I see. I see."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That means a lot of discussions about us is going on.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Very much. I gave full report to Indira Gandhi. Even at night 2 AM, after taking bath they chant Hare Krsna. They type for writting books! Why are you bothering? Then somehow they became pacified. Tarunbabu didn't come in the picture as yet. You just started the temple and went away. That time I investigated with the police. But now the report about you, according to West Bengal Security Force, is a very good report about Hare Krsna. I Met with D.M of Nadia, SP of Nadia and got very good report.] "Please ask Prime Minister, allow them to stay."

Prabhupada: Governor...

Lalita Bose: U.P.

Prabhupada: U.P. [Transl. He treats me like his Guru.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Therefore kindly pay little attention to India now.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. I must stay in India if my mission works. They are not taking it in India. No educated...As you are eagerly coming no Indian boys and girls are coming! That's why I have to get my work done by the help of these people. Do you think they have come to me to eat? There is no one to work! Those talented boys and girls in India they should be trained! Who will work for villege organization? None is available? I will have to do it with these boys?] They must understand the philosophy. So is that all right? So make it.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That's all. Now you take rest.]

Gopala Krsna: We can go down.

Prabhupada: Give her prasada.

Jayapataka: In case they want to see what type of..., how we like to develop in the village scheme, should I keep the Mayapur program ready?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And immediately the work can...

Prabhupada: These pictures and everything.

Jayapataka: I wrote out the whole thing. Sometimes I can meet you and...

Prabhupada: That's all right. You make... Keep that... That I'll present personally, not now. Later.

Lalita Bose: When he is meeting, he will unveil. "Already we have started the schemes, and we can expand with the help of government." [break] [Transl. Afterwards I will meet Indiraji.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. About the missionary, if at least hundred people are allowed it would be very good.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Can't we mention that in the letter? There is a gulf of difference between your writing and their writing. Maybe you add that here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That I would like to ask personally.]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. But again, even if you tell personally she might forget.] [to Brahmananda:] Listen, please, Hare Krsna. One point.

Prabhupada: Where is that letter?

Brahmananda: To Indira Gandhi?

Prabhupada: So mention that I require...

Lalita Bose: Hundred...

Prabhupada: How many...

Brahmananda: When you talk about "I... So we have already eight branches in India. All development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."

Prabhupada: "And foreign assistance, about one hundred men." That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. Foreign what? Men? Foreign assistance means... Would assistance mean so?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, it would.]

Brahmananda: "Foreign assistance, numbering about one hundred."

Prabhupada: Yes. That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Transl. And missionary. That you mention.]

Prabhupada: Then what is there?

Brahmananda: "So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange and foreign assistance numbering about one hundred."

Prabhupada: "Mostly. Mostly by foreign exchange and foreign assistance. Mostly." It is not that there is no Indian. There are...

Brahmananda: Mostly.

Lalita Bose: "I want." "I want from you." [Transl. Write it clearly that if I have to carry on with my program then you have to grant missionary visas.]

Prabhupada: Yes. So, "If you..."

Brahmananda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."

Prabhupada: "By giving these foreigners missionary..." What is called? "Missionary visa"? Is that all right?

Lalita Bose: [Transl. "Missionary visa they call it, no? Citizenship also you can ask.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What if I don't mention it?]

Lalita Bose: [Transl. That's what she wants from you! Your requesting and their requesting is different.]

Prabhupada: What you have said?

Brahmananda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government..."

Prabhupada: "By allowing these foreign assistant as missionary men." That's all.

Brahmananda: "As missionaries."

Prabhupada: "As missionary men." Or "missionaries."

Lalita Bose: ["Missionaries is good enough."] So they will see in what way they can...That's all.

Prabhupada: That's all. Jaya. [end]