Room Conversation with Film Producer about Kṛṣṇa Lila – January 22, 1977, Bhubaneswar
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770122R1.BHU
770122R1-Bhubaneswar [47:23 Minutes]
Sir. Excuse us. We have done wrong. So please deliver us. We are most sinful
Indian man (1): We have recorded songs, thirty-four songs, written by the ancient poets and Jayadeva.
Indian man (2): Vaisnavas.
Indian man (1): All Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: People misunderstand this Krsna's behavior with Radharani and the gopis as ordinary woman-hunters.
Indian man (2): No, no.
Prabhupada: You say no, but they take it like that. Even a person like Vivekananda, he said long ago that "This Vaisnavism is sex religion." They misunderstand. So just try to understand. This lila is kept in the Srimad-Bhagavatam in the Tenth Canto, and middle of Tenth Canto, Thirty-fourth, Thirty-fifth Chapter. So one has to understand Krsna first of all. So it is not for ordinary men. So we discourage these things to be discussed or presented even for ordinary men. This is our preaching. It cannot be taken as ordinary film show.
Indian man (2): No, sir, he was taking it in different angle, that Krsna as by these Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: That's all right...
Prabhupada: Rasa..., that is not for ordinary persons. It is most confidential. So this has deteriorated. Otherwise, so many gentlemen come here, and India, they are asking, "What is God?" This is the question. "Why God was killed?" Yesterday this was the question.
Indian man (2): We also came. We were also there. And Mr. Karana was asking nice questions. Yesterday evening he was here.
Prabhupada: So in India... You are born in India, where God comes as Lord Ramacandra, as Lord Krsna, as Lord Caitanya, and you are asking, "What is God?" So how much deteriorated you have become, just imagine. So we are trying to reform all this nonsense business, and how I can associate?
Indian man (2): No, no, we don't ask your association. We want your blessing.
Prabhupada: How can I give my blessing? It is... I protest, rather. I protest, rather. You should not present this.
Prabhupada: No, no, you said Jayadeva's.
Indian man (1): We have taken some merely some lyrics of songs of Jayadeva.
Prabhupada: That's all right. That is also dealing with the gopis. Dehi pada-pallavam udaram. So these things are not ordinary things. You should understand that. If you make, propagate, then the people... I have seen one book one rascal Bhattacarya has written. And the United Nation or something like that supported, gave him, them, money. And in the cover of the book he has given a picture of Radharani sitting naked. This is going on.
Indian man (1): No, sir, you have the pictures you were having, this rasa-lila, this is also these very things. We have seen those pictures.
Prabhupada: No, but... No, that's all right. That picture is in the book. That book is... We are translating Srimad-Bhagavatam. And what...
Prabhupada: That is not presented in that way. So we do not say... But these warnings that... It is... We must understand it is very confidential thing. It is not for ordinary men. If we present as ordinary thing, that is distortion.
Indian man (1): Sir, our literature...
Prabhupada: Our... I have got stricture that we don't present...
Indian man (2): [showing picture] This is our... Here. You made this. This is...
Prabhupada: No, no. Why don't you present...? Krsna has so many lilas. Just like... Where is our Krsna book? You have got?
Prabhupada: Yes. There is...
Prabhupada: Not final.
Indian man: No, no. starting, balya-lila.
Prabhupada: So why don't you present Krsna's fighting in the...?
Indian man (2): We will.
Prabhupada: Just like Kuruksetra.
Indian man (2): Dvaraka.
Indian man (1): That is Mahabharata. That is the part also.
Prabhupada: That is also krsna-lila.
Indian man (1): For sure. So we have now produced three parts, and two more parts are there to be produced. [break]
Prabhupada: Take prasada.
[pause]
Generally... Of course, I do not know what you have done. Generally they present rasa-lila, they describe rasa-lila. These professional Bhagavata means they immediately begin to recite rasa-lila. Bhagavata reading recitation means rasa-lila. And people take in a different way, that "Krsna was woman-hunter. He married sixteen thousand wives, and He had three hundred thousand gopis, and He was enjoying with woman. Just see." I saw one doctor. He was a debauch. He was Muhammadan. So his friend came. So... In Calcutta. So he was addressing, ki baba Krsna! [sarcastically. Hey you Krsna!] Just see. Krsna means debauch.
Indian man (2): No.
Prabhupada: No, no, you don't mean, but people have taken like that. Anyone who is woman-hunter, he is Krsna. This is going on.
Indian man (2): Therefore, Guruji, we have started...
Indian man (1): This is the spiritual way we have started.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: No, no. Why you start from this? Why not start Krsna's birth, Krsna's playing with cowherd boys, Krsna's...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (2): Then here Krsna... The spring has come, and this is... You have got here the Govardhana-puja, and Krsna's along with these cowherd boys, and they're going on. That is rejoicing for the… In the spring they are going out... Here, in Orissa also, in Bengal also. On the full moon day of Phalguna we get that gostha, where all the cows meet together, and we get this. From that function we started. We have established that...
Prabhupada: On the whole, my point is: it is a very difficult subject matter. So unless we very carefully deal, people will misunderstand.
Indian man (2): We have carefully dealt with...
Indian man (2): It is not a question of sex. It is super divine power.
Prabhupada: You say like that.
Indian man (2): No, no. We are presenting. I am presenting this way. That is superpower.
Indian man (2): All the universes moving about.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Indian man (2): We have taken that aspect, that He's a superpower.
Indian man (1): When he is thinking He's man, He's not the man. He's the superman.
Indian man (2): Also we have seen that...
Indian man (1): And all the universes inside revolving.
Indian man (2): That is our message. Krsna is not ordinary. Superpower.
Prabhupada: He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Indian man (2): He's the supreme power.
Indian man (2): Not from the sex. That aspect... [break]
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes. Find it.
Hari-sauri: Says, "There is a distinction between Lord Krsna's dancing with the gopis and the ordinary dancing of living entities within the material world. In order to clear up further misconceptions about the rasa dance and the affairs of Krsna and the gopis, Maharaja Pariksit, the hearer of Srimad-Bhagavatam, told Sukadeva Gosvami: 'Krsna appeared on the earth to establish the regulative principles of religion and to curb the predominance of irreligion. But the behavior of Krsna and the gopis might encourage irreligious principles in the material world. I am simply surprised that He would act in such a way and join the company of others' wives in the dead of night.' "
Prabhupada: Just see.
Hari-sauri: "This statement of Pariksit Maharaja's was very much appreciated by Sukadeva Gosvami. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Mayavadi impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Krsna and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Krsna's appreciation of the gopis appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Maharaja Pariksit understood the total situation from Sukadeva Gosvami, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Krsna and the gopis in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise. This is very important in order to check the unrestricted association with women by the prakrta-sahajiya. In his statement, Maharaja Pariksit has used several important..."
Indian man (2): That is Radha.
Prabhupada: "Radha." This rascaldom is going on.
Indian man (1): Others are gopis. It was also at Orissa also previously.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Indian man (2): That is wrong. That is wrong.
Hari-sauri: "In his statement, Maharaja Pariksit has used several important words which require clarification. The first word, jugupsitam, means 'abominable.' The first doubt of Pariksit Maharaja was as follows: Lord Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has advented Himself to establish religious principles. Why then did He mix with others' wives in the dead of night and enjoy dancing, embracing and kissing? According to Vedic injunctions this is not allowed. Also, when the gopis first came to Him, He gave instructions to them to return to their homes. To call the wives of other persons or young girls and enjoy dancing with them is certainly abominable according to the Vedas. And why should Krsna have done this? Another word used here is aptakama. Some may take it for granted that Krsna was very lusty amongst young girls, but Pariksit Maharaja said that this was not possible. He could not be lusty. First of all, from the material calculation He was only eight years old. At that age a boy cannot be lusty. Aptakama means that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is self-satisfied. Even if He were lusty, He does not need to take help from others to satisfy His lusty desires. The next point is that although not lusty Himself, He might have been induced by the lusty desires of the gopis. But Maharaja Pariksit then used another word, yadupati, which indicates that Krsna is the most exalted personality in the dynasty of the Yadus. The kings in the dynasty of Yadu were considered to be the most pious, and their descendants were also like that."
Hari-sauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Krsna have been induced even by the gopis? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Krsna to do anything abominable. But Maharaja Pariksit was in doubt as to why Krsna acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Maharaja Pariksit used when he addressed Sukadeva Gosvami is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Sukadeva Gosvami was an educated brahmacari, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacaris, and what to speak of a brahmacari like Sukadeva Gosvami. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Maharaja Pariksit inquired for clarification from Sukadeva Gosvami. Sukadeva Gosvami immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Krsna is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Sukadeva Gosvami has very clearly said, isvaranam, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Sukadeva Gosvami warns that the conditioned followers, who are not actually in control, should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller.
A Mayavadi philosopher may falsely claim to be God, or Krsna, but he cannot actually act like Krsna. He can persuade his followers to falsely imitate the rasa dance, but he is unable to lift Govardhana Hill. We have many experiences in the past of Mayavadi rascals deluding their followers by posing themselves as Krsna in order to enjoy rasa lila. In many instances they were checked by the government, arrested and punished. In Orissa, Thakura Bhaktivinoda also punished the so-called incarnation of Visnu who was imitating rasa-lila with young girls. There were many complaints against him. At that time Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a magistrate, and the government deputed him to deal with that rascal, and he punished him very severely. The rasa-lila dance cannot be imitated by anyone. Sukadeva Gosvami warns that one should not even think of imitating it. He specifically mentions that if out of foolishness one tries to imitate Krsna's rasa dance he will be killed, just like a person who wants to imitate Lord Siva's drinking of an ocean of poison. Lord Siva drank an ocean of poison and kept it within his throat. The poison made his throat turn blue, and therefore Lord Siva is called nila-kantha. But if any ordinary person tries to imitate Lord Siva by drinking poison or by smoking ganja, he is sure be vanquished and will die within a very short time. Lord Sri Krsna's dealing with the gopis was under special circumstances."
Prabhupada: It is not for public show. That is the idea.
Prabhupada: Read it.
Hari-sauri: "Most of the gopis in their previous lives were very great sages, expert in the studies of the Veda, and when Lord Krsna appeared as Lord Ramacandra they wanted to enjoy with Him. Lord Ramacandra gave them the benediction that their desires would be fulfilled when He would appear as Krsna. Therefore the desire of the gopis to enjoy the appearance of Lord Krsna was long cherished. So they approached goddess Katyayani to have Krsna as their husband. There are so many other circumstances also which testify to the supreme authority of Krsna and show that He is not bound to the rules and regulations of the material world. In special cases He acts as He likes to favor His devotees. This is only possible for Him because He is the supreme controller. People in general should follow the instructions of Lord Krsna as given in Bhagavad-gita and should not even imagine imitating Lord Krsna in the rasa dance."
Indian man (1): It's a fact. The preface of the book...
Prabhupada: That is all right. But it is meant for the liberated soul.
Indian man (2): Certainly.
Indian man (1): Guruji, I am telling you a single word.
Prabhupada: So it cannot be demonstrated to the ordinary person.
Prabhupada: No. There are many babajis. Just like I told you...
Indian man (1): No, no. He wrote a preface for that book. The preface is...
Prabhupada: ...that he's thinking himself as Krsna and others' women as the gopis. They are doing that.
Indian man (1): No, no. Same thing. It has been written. It has been advised every time, time to time. This is... Like the poison of the...
Indian man (2): Like poison of the Siva... This is in our language also.
Indian man (1): This is in our language also. This text...
Indian man (1): They will be completely devotees...
Indian man (2): You have to go to that tulasi tree and you have to worship that fruit of...
Prabhupada: My point is that for ordinary discussion, ordinary show, these things are not meant for. That is my point.
Indian man (1): No, we are just depicting the lilas.
Prabhupada: It is not that they should be forbidden altogether. No. That is meant for a certain, for a high-class devotees, not for ordinary persons.
Indian man (2): Here they say that when you get to this Mana-bhanjana or Krsna lila, they take [indistinct]... Any party. Even one Vaisnava, he was getting a troupe and making that Krsna conscious movement here. Or that some of this... The Surya Patel, he became leper. And the woman who was acting as the Radha, she also became the victim of leprosy.
Prabhupada: So why should take such risk? [laughs]
Indian man (2): No. No, no, no. What happened...
Prabhupada: It happened, and it must happen. It must happen. So why should you take that risk?
Indian man (1): This is... We are depicting the lila...
Prabhupada: Any... Anyway...
Indian man (1): You are telling, and your disciples are always telling about Krsna's different lilas. So we are your disciples, and we are telling the lila in different form. It is in vision. And we are starting from Sarva-bhumna or Sarvabhauma, Dampati...
Indian man (2): We started for keeping the traditions of the songs of the Vaisnavas.
Indian man (2): One aspect. One aspect we have taken, that supreme, the message, that essence...
Indian man (1): He's always supreme.
Indian man (1): No, we understand. We are depicting the...
Prabhupada: Begin.
Indian man: ...supreme aspect, supreme superman.
Prabhupada: Just like one learns from ABCD, not jumping over M.A. class. That is my point. Teach people from the ABCD. So this is beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam: janmady asya yatah. What Krsna? He is the original. Aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg 10.8]. Show that by film, how He is sarvasya prabhavo. That will be...
Indian man (1): So He is always supreme power.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Not... You are going to produce some film. Begin from the first chapter of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Why you jump over the Tenth Canto? That is kept very confidential. Unless one understands... By understanding nine cantos of Srimad-Bhagavatam, he has no entrance. Just like you cannot enter into the law college unless you are graduate. So Sukadeva Gosvami has arranged in such a way that one should understand what is Krsna by reading these nine cantos. Then he can enter into the Krsna's lila and Krsna's birth. What is the purpose? He could have given Krsna... Srimad-Bhagavatam is for Krsna. So we have named this, Krsna, krsna-katha. So first krsna-katha is: Krsna is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gita. Present Bhagavad-gita. Then one accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality: sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. When he comes to that stage, then Bhagavata begins. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2].
Paramo nirmatsaranam, eh? Unless one is matsara... "Oh, Krsna is doing that? Why I cannot do it?" The sahajiya babajis, they do that. That is matsarata, that "Krsna can do? I can do." So he simply imitates Krsna's rasa-lila. And Krsna can raise the Govardhana Hill-that is not possible. That is... What is called? Mythology. What he cannot do, he takes as mythology. And what he can easily imitate and go to hell, that is very good.
Prabhupada: No, no, you cannot take, but the public will take like that.
Indian man (2): Somebody is coming...
Prabhupada: No, our... Just like we are making Krsna consciousness propaganda all over... So from this...
Indian man (2): That, education, for want of education.
Prabhupada: That is wanted. What is Krsna you should understand.
Indian man (2): That is education, not propaganda.
Prabhupada: Yes. So these boys, they are advised to follow the regulative principle: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no fish, no egg, no onion. So many "no's."
Indian man (2): You see, that is also... [indistinct]
Indian man (1): No, Guruji, you cannot take these persons who are by this strictness as your disciple only.
Prabhupada: No. Yes. Yes.
Indian man (1): You should take us as your disciple even.
Prabhupada: You should follow my rules and regulations-I can take.
Indian man (2): As you have advised that a sun doesn't only act on the fouls of purity. The purity is for all, even the...
Prabhupada: But I am not that sun.
Indian man (1): We're also enlightened by your knowledge.
Indian man (2): No, no, sir. Definitely. At least light of this... Light of the Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness, you are giving it to all.
Indian man (2): All right.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (2): When you are giving a darsana... Yesterday we came to see you. That, these people had to go to Bombay yesterday. But when a certain uttered that you have come here, we were astonished. They ran to my office, told me that "Guruji has come." "No, you are wrong." "No, you see. It is from our local newspaper." So he came from... He's from Bengal. So he came for us and told me they would let us go and see. By five o'clock they had told him... "Let us go." We came here, and there's some people here that center that I was talking to him. That engineer... When Guruji tells that there is no rain, he was searching for the water, and the ground water survey... He is engineer of the ground water survey. So I was telling him that way. So Guruji, when you are giving the light, wisdom, or making blessing that you become filled the superness. You surrender yourself.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our propaganda.
Indian man (2): The surrender to... So similarly, suppose I am a drunkard.
Prabhupada: No, it is no disqualification.
Indian man (2): Guruji, my argument is this.
Indian man (2): We are associated with the sadhus.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man (2): All associated with the sadhu. That will clean us. As you have told us in this book, that becomes more cleaner.
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Caitanya Mahaprabhu... No. We are prepared to take you also. Why not? It is not difficult. That Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when accepted Jagai-Madhai, so Narottama dasa Thakura sings, papi tapi yata chila, hari-name uddharila tara saksi jagai madhai. So the evidence is not that by words, but evidence, action.
Indian man (2): By action.
Prabhupada: So how? How He accepted? When Jagai-Madhai, after injuring Nityananda, so Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very angry, that "I shall kill them!" So at that time Nityananda begged, "Sir, You have promised not to take weapon in this avatara. So excuse them." So as soon Nityananda Prabhu said like that, both the brothers fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu: "Sir. Excuse us. We have done wrong. So please deliver us. We are most sinful." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "You are sinful. That is not disqualification. But if you want My asraya, then you stop. No more. Whatever you have done, that's all right; I excuse you. But no more." So they said, ara nare bapa: "Bas, whatever we have done." So this is wanted. But if we continue to take shelter of Caitanya Mahaprabhu or His representative, at the same time continue our sinful activities, that is not desirable.
Indian man (2): That is not possible.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Indian man (1): Guruji, we are taking your life as our own way. We are taking it.
Prabhupada: No, you cannot take in your way. That is not possible, no.
Indian man (1): But you are spreading it all through the world.
Indian man (2): Guruji, my soul, when I surrender, becomes the...
Prabhupada: That is the first condition. You must surrender.
Indian man (2): That is surrender, the only thing.
Indian man (1): But there are some ways. Even I am influenced by your ideas. That is some other thing. Somebody's influenced by your appearance. Somebody's influenced by your dialects.
Prabhupada: No, there is no question of amendment.
Indian man (2): No amendment.
Indian man (1): We are not surrendered, but we read your literatures…
Indian man (2): No conditional. Conditional means that we have hidden here an enemy to fight over his property.
Prabhupada: If I would have compromised, then many millions of students I would have got. Anyone comes to me-"First surrender."
Prabhupada: That's nice, but...
Indian man (2): But if I have got the concentration, I can find you in me.
Prabhupada: That is special case.
Indian man (2): That is special case. That is devotion. That is surrender, actually a complete surrender.
Prabhupada: Still, you know... Surrender... Surrender, but he did not do it properly. Therefore Dronacarya did not like.
Indian man (2): But he has got the devotion. He has complete surrendered to Dronacarya.
Prabhupada: You know that Ekalavya? He asked that "You do that."
Indian man (2): Oh, yes. In the interest of the Kauravas and Pandavas.
Prabhupada: Anyway, that means he did not like.
Indian man (1): But the superpower.
Indian man (2): I don't know. But what you think that actually Drona, er, Ekalavya is the disciple of...?
Prabhupada: The general process we have to accept: adau sraddha. If you think that "This line of action is very nice, Krsna consciousness," this is called sraddha. And sraddha is explained by Kaviraja Gosvami, sraddha sabde visvasa surila niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva karma krta haya. This is sraddha. When one is firmly convinced. Firmly. Sudrdha visvasa.
Prabhupada: Surrender means full faith, that "Whatever Krsna said is all right. I'll not do anything, and I shall simply surrender to Krsna." That is surrender, not that one may be attracted by this, one may be attracted by this, one may...
Indian man (1): No, we read literature, and we are surrendered.
Prabhupada: Simply I am attracted with the words of Krsna. That's all. No compromise.
Indian man (2): No compromise. No compromise. There is no question of compromise.
Prabhupada: That is not surrender.
Indian man (1): Guruji, we must get your blessing definitely. In future we are...
Prabhupada: Then, if you make conditional blessing...
Indian man (2): No, no. No condition. Let us work. Kindly bless us. Bless us. We will go ahead with full devotion, full surrender...
Indian man (2): So eleven or twelve days' time... We have posted the letter on seventh, and yesterday this gentleman from here rang me that "You were searching for the Guruji, and he is at..." "Nonsense." Really simply..., when I am busy giving some dictation to my steno. "He is humbug." So he came forward, and from there we came here.
Prabhupada: Thank you. Hare Krsna. So if you want to give education, take it from the very beginning, ABCD, and present nicely so that people may..., can take advantage.
Prabhupada: Balya-lila also will not be understood. They will think, "What is this?" That is stated in the Srimad... Ittham brahma-sukhanubhutya dasyam gatanam para-daivatena, mayasritanam nara-darakena . Mayasritanam. They'll not.... They'll: "What is this nonsense? A boy is playing, and they are worshiping Him?"
Indian man (2): But when they see it...
Prabhupada: That's it. These people will take like that, that "What is that? A boy is playing with some cows and calves, and these foolish persons are worshiping." They will take it.
Indian man (2): It is said also there. When Yasoda tries to beat Him, oh, He shows the universe.
Prabhupada: So who will understand that?
Indian man (2): No, no, no, no. All understand it. If you show all will understand, sir.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. I know that.
Indian man (2): Still they are living if you go to a village.
Prabhupada: But your grandmother did it, all right, but now you are asking, "What is God?" This is your position. Your position is that you are asking, "What is God?" That means you do not believe what is Krsna. Otherwise why you are asking, "What is God?"
Indian man (2): I tell you...
Prabhupada: Now first of all, you answer this. Yesterday the question was "What is God?"
Indian man (2): The gentleman asked.
Prabhupada: Yes. You say the Orissa is whole krsna-bhakta, and he's asking, "What is God?" This is your position.
Indian man (1): He's asking to get a word from you, perhaps.
Indian man (2): No, no, we're not defending.
Prabhupada: If you know God, why should you ask, "What is God?"
Indian man (2): Unless he knows God, why he's not come here?
Prabhupada: No, you are very proud that "Our Orissa is very advanced in knowing Krsna."
Indian man (2): No, no...
Prabhupada: You just now told. And your Orissa man says, "What is God?" Just try to understand your position. You are advertising that you know Krsna very well, and again you are asking, "What is God?"
Indian man (2): No, devotees.
Indian man (1): Krsna... I mean to say that Krsna devotees.
Prabhupada: No, no, Krsna devotee... You are saying that your Orissa is very much great advanced in understanding Krsna, and your Orissa man is asking, "What is God?" This is contradictory. He does not know what is Krsna. Otherwise there was no question to ask, "What is God?" Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. He should have known. But you have forgotten. Admit this.
Indian man (1): Oh, definitely.
Prabhupada: Yes. So therefore you have to learn from the very beginning. In foreign countries, Indian students, they say, "Oh, Swamiji, what will be done by this Krsna, Hare Krsna? We require technology." They say like that.
Indian man (2): Indian students.
Prabhupada: We have rejected. Otherwise why there was so much talk, yata mata tata path? Why yata mata tata path? The Supreme Lord Krsna is saying mam ekam. And yata mat? What is this nonsense? Admit that you have forgotten Krsna, or you do not know what is Krsna. Otherwise why bring this all question-"What is God?" "Yata mata tata path," "Why Krsna was killed?" Krsna can be killed?
Indian man (2): He asked?
Prabhupada: Yes. Who asked?
Indian man (2): That gentleman yesterday was saying.
Prabhupada: Yes. "Why Krsna was killed?" Just see how rascal question this is.
Indian man (2): He was not killed. Krsna was not killed.
Prabhupada: That is the fact, but he... Why he questioned this, "How Krsna was killed?"
Indian man (1): I was not there.
Indian man (2): Yesterday we sat here. [Oriya with other guest]
Prabhupada: Ordinary question... Krsna has advised in the Bhagavad-gita, na jayate na mriyate va kadacit, na hanyate hanyamane sari... [Bg 2.20]. This is for living entity, soul. And living entity is the part and parcel of Krsna. So the part and parcel of Krsna, na jayate na mriyate. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. And "Krsna, the supreme whole, He was killed." Just see the question-fun. Means he has no common sense even-"Krsna was killed." "The part and parcel cannot be killed, but the whole can be killed." Just see his intelligence. If I say, "Not a single portion of this room can be destroyed, but the whole house was destroyed," what is this nonsense? Part and parcel... Na jayate na mriyate kadacit. Kadacit, this word, is used. "At any time." And "The whole is killed."
Indian man (1): Who can kill? Nobody.
Prabhupada: No, he asked this question.
Indian man (1): Who can kill the supreme power?
Indian man (2): Oriya Bhagavatam also it is said that no one can kill...
Prabhupada: No, the atheist class, they ask this question: "Krsna was killed; therefore He's ordinary man."
Indian man (1): It is a story.
Prabhupada: Not story. So you have to learn Krsna. That is my point. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaya... [Bg 7.3].
Indian man (1): [Oriya]
Prabhupada: You have forgotten, so that now you are asking, "What is God?" This is your position.
Indian man (1): That is what happened now.
Prabhupada: So you should know your position first of all.
Indian man (3): Gradually we are now developing, making drama, this, that. We are taking it just as if Krsna lila itself is a fact. It is a theatrical thing?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Satisfy our senses.
Indian man (1): Senses. But not that.
Prabhupada: So if you are serious, you let us combine together, learn Krsna consciousness, deliver your country, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised, that amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc Madhya 7.128]. The whole country has gone to hell. So many people come, ask me all odd question... [indistinct]
[break]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Who cares? Who cares for this fellow Rajneesh? Now in the whole world they are feeling the weight of our movement. So who listens to Rajneesh? Who knows him? That fellow is arrogant.]
Indian man (3): [Transl. Nobody knows him. Yesterday they put such a question before you after reading some articles from here and there…]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No. We have to see practically. Our this Hare Krsna Movement, there is some combined effort going on to check this Movement. So what's the reason? The reason is as they say in our Bengal, capa padle bapa bale, Now they are feeling a pressure of this. But who cares? Who pays attention to them?]
Indian man (2): Yesterday one of my colleagues asked me, "Mahanti, what is this Bauddha-dharma or Buddhism. We started preaching Buddhism to other people. And other people become concerned like the Buddhist. Why do we the parents of motherland forget about it? But Swamiji has started it not only Europe, America. It has started universal... Except India. You said that you are educated man, you go and hear lecture..."
Prabhupada: No, we are recognized by all educated circle all over the world. If you read the opinions of scholars...
Indian man (2): We have read many of your publications. And I was just telling him like dharma, that "Swamiji has done only one thing, that he has made the universe not only confined to India. He has made the whole world conscious about Krsna, to know about Krsna at least, the real Krsna, or the superpower. He has made this point."
Prabhupada: Therefore we have to progress very cautiously, very cautiously, not irresponsibly. That is our point.
Indian man (2): Recently I had been to Calcutta for the recording of this songs of Krsna lila. [Transl. They are from Telegu picture dubbed in Hindi.]
Indian man (2): Unless they go back to Krsna, nobody can help us today. All the frustration-everything, everything else.
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