Room Conversation – September 5, 1976, Vṛndāvana

A sannyasi must not stay anywhere more than three days

Prabhupada: [indistinct] ...No, that is wrong. [indistinct]. Sannyasi should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vrndavana, in Radha-Damodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vrndavana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Krsna asked me. I thought that "I must go. Guru Maharaja wanted it, Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Let me try." So if I had not gone, then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahat-vicalanam. Mahatma, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle. No staying. I am this old age, I cannot move... My... I... So many... Still I am traveling all over the world. I am simply interested that whatever I have done, it may not be vanquished in my absence. Let me go and encourage them. Otherwise, I have no capacity to move now. But still I am moving, only for this purpose. Grhinam dina-cetasam. So a sannyasi must move. A sannyasi must not stay anywhere more than three days. That is the principle. So he was moving, but his moving is creating disturbances here. Therefore I have stopped. And besides that, a temple is nirguna. A sannyasi is forbidden to stay anywhere else, but in a temple he can stay for more than three days, provided there is business. Otherwise, there is no necessity. So this is the exclusion[?].

Gopala Krsna: That solves all the problems.

Prabhupada: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution... If we do not become very simple servant of Krsna, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Krsna, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyabhilasita-sūnyam [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11].

No other purpose than to serve Krsna. This is only purpose. Anukūlyena krsnanusilanam [Cc Madhya 19.167]. So our only business is how to satisfy Krsna. So Krsna in His original status as Krsna, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahaprabhu nor Krsna has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Krsna has never said. That is not Krsna's, neither Caitanya Mahaprabhu's business. That is not required. Baḍa baḍa vanarera baḍa baḍa peta lahka ḍihgote matha kare hehta "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vrndavana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission all over the world-melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching. That is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?

Hamsadūta: Yes. Then I want to do that, but there are some problems which I'm experiencing.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Hamsadūta: Well, for instance, Gopala Krsna has the habit of deporting my men to different centers, even against their will.

Gopala Krsna: I don't have that habit.

Hamsadūta: Then the men... I explained the other night...

Prabhupada: Let him explain, don't...

Hamsadūta: When we come to a center, naturally there are certain men who want to go traveling. Not all men want to go traveling, but there are definitely some who want to go traveling. And if they come to me, what should I do? Tell them, "No, I'm sorry"?

Prabhupada: No, no, traveling, if somebody wants to travel, what he is? First of all you must know. A brahmacari, a sannyasi, they are meant for preaching. Not grhasthas.

Hamsadūta: No, not grhasthas. I'm not taking any grhasthas.

Prabhupada: So if a brahmacari, grhastha, yes, if he wants to travel, so there is no objection.

Hamsadūta: But what is happening is that, for instance, someone will join me, then Gopala will catch up with him and send the man to Delhi or to Hyderabad. The man will run away and come back again, and again he will be forced to go away. This is what I object to.

Gopala Krsna: No, this is wrong. I'll tell you what the facts are. In every temple there are certain key positions for some devotee. In no temple we are trying to keep more men than necessary. Sometimes they come and he preaches to them and he gives them money. If he is the temple president... Like in Bombay Hamsadūta came, he had a fight with Giriraja. Giriraja was ready to write such a strong letter to you. He gave money to few devotees...

Prabhupada: The temple establishment, that has to be maintained.

Hamsadūta: That I understand. Prabhupada, I understand that.

Prabhupada: So why, why the...? Besides that, if you want to take someone or if anyone is willing to go with you, the president of the local temple, he should be requested. Or the man who wants to go, that "I want to go with him," so if the president thinks that he can be spared, then he can go. But if he thinks that his presence is necessary, why he should go?

Gopala Krsna: This is one of the GBC resolutions. No devotee can go without the temple president's permission.

Hamsadūta: I understand...

Prabhupada: I cannot hear two. Let him... When I ask him...

Hamsadūta: In this particular instance, and practically always, I do that. But Giriraja was so unreasonable about the matter that the boy actually ran away.

Prabhupada: No, no, that, that, there are so many people... If you do not satisfy his senses, everyone is free to run away. That you cannot check. You cannot say, accuse somebody or somebody. Because here everyone is giving voluntary service. Nobody is servant. So if he doesn't like something, at any moment he can go away. At any moment. Just like yesterday the Sastri came. So he went away. And somebody, they are coming, going. So you cannot check them, because they are not our paid servants. If they are very kind that they have come here, cooperating with us. But still there is some decency, if one is engaged in some work, all of a sudden he should go away, all of a sudden... That is not very good. That is not very good. Decently, that "I used to go, and now in preaching work, so there will be no difficulty," this is the arrangement. Something must be done. All of a sudden, if somebody goes, that isn't very good. Tamala also, if he did so, that is not good. Because I want some men, I cannot kidnap from any place. That is not good. We must see that the management is going on, the management may not suffer. But the president should allow to go if there is extra men.

Hamsadūta: Yes. Another point in this connection, Prabhupada, the men who come with me, they don't stay with me forever. They will stay a few months some of them, and then they go. In this way...

Prabhupada: Then that is the habit...

Hamsadūta: For instance, in this temple, there are so many men which are on our party who are...

Prabhupada: So many men. We don't want so many men. Now we are going to minimize. We don't want so many men. That if..., now we have to estimate how many men absolutely required. So many men we shall keep. Others, they must go to the preaching party. They must go to the preaching.

Gopala Krsna: They can all go on the buses, the extra men.

Prabhupada: No, they should be distributed. They may go to other centers.

Gopala Krsna: Hyderabad needs men.

Prabhupada: Here, unnecessarily increasing men and increasing expenditure, twenty thousand, twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand. Why? Unnecessary. Only minimum men should be kept who are actually useful. There is no need of keeping extra men. What is that?

Harikesa: When you originally were speaking about Vrndavana, you mentioned that Vrndavana would be a place for those people who have become a little disturbed in Krsna consciousness, or burned out, we call it, from so much activity, that he comes here and gets rejuvenated here. Is that still...

Prabhupada: That is a fact, but provided he is devotee. If he's not a devotee then he will go away, here and there, here and there. That is the habit. And a devotee is satisfied anywhere. A devotee is not that "I'll go to Vrndavana, then I'll be satisfied." Narayana-paraḥ sarve na kutascana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. I did not go to your country taking Vrndavana with me. I had to stay in places where in the refrigerator there is meat. And I was cooking. When opened it I saw, "Here is meat. All right, what can be done? Hare Krsna." That's all.

Aksayananda: But actually you did take Vrndavana with you.

Prabhupada: So if I would have stuck to Vrndavana, "No, no, I cannot go anywhere, leaving Vrndavana..." No, we can go to hell if there is Krsna's service.

Harikesa: So is there some time that maybe somebody could stay here when he comes in that frame of consciousness?

Prabhupada: No, no, it is... Not that. It should be now restricted. Not that anyone comes and whimsically goes away. This should be restricted.

Gopala Krsna: These devotees just create a disturbance, Srila Prabhupada. They don't want to be engaged, and everybody copies them and the whole atmosphere gets...

Prabhupada: No, no.

Aksayananda: A lot of devotees think... They come here... "Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vrndavana is nice." That's wrong.

Prabhupada: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing.

Aksayananda: We have one kitchen, as you said...

Prabhupada: I can maintain them, provided they are actually serious about making progress in Krsna consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vrndavana, Krsna-candra has become very much obliged to him. Krsna-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.

Harikesa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.

Prabhupada: Is there a guesthouse? Stay. There is no harm. There is guesthouse, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make..., manage it. That's all.

Gopala Krsna: Very good.

Prabhupada: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised. Twenty-five... [Transl. Twenty -five thousand.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. It's too much. Twenty-five thousand is more.]

Aksayananda: It's much more. Sometimes thirty.

Prabhupada: So this must be stopped immediately. We cannot pay more than five thousand. You stop. We cannot pay.

Bhagatji: [Transl. That's what I also say. Yah addakhana hain kya? Is this a free hotel?] My Guru Maharaja used to say, [Transl. Khaoya daoyara addakhana. A free hotel for eating and sleeping.] "Joint mess." This is not possible, that we have to maintain a big bundle of burden. What is this?

Aksayananda: But still, we have to welcome anyone who comes.

Prabhupada: Twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand per month? What is this? Where is that temple in Vrndavana who is spending twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand? Can you say any temple?

Bhagatji: Not more than five thousand.

Prabhupada: That's it. So we cannot pay more than five thousand.

Aksayananda: For eating?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Aksayananda: Then clothing is more? Clothing is more? Maintenance?

Prabhupada: No, everything. Hundred rupees per head. You do not require to collect. I shall pay five thousand.

Harikesa: Then there should be a budget here.

Prabhupada: Budget is there. Hundred rupees per head. Fifty men if you keep, it is five thousand.

Gopala Krsna: We can keep less. We don't want fifty.

Prabhupada: That's all right. It will be less. But I'm prepared to pay you five thousand rupees for fifty men. Not more than that. That I can pay. You do not require to collect. You sit down, but work hard here. Not that eating, sleeping. No. That cannot be. That cannot be done. They must be engaged twenty-four hours. That is wanted. It is not a lazy, a free hotel. Anyone lives, he must be engaged twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ . If he has no work, chant Hare Krsna here. That should be done.

Aksayananda: Srila Prabhupada? We have the twenty-four hour kirtana. I've requested everyone who comes to do at least one hour per day.

Prabhupada: There is no question. This is the condition.

Aksayananda: Yes, I've made it a rule.

Prabhupada: If you agree, then stay here. Otherwise, you go to Radha-kunḍa.

Aksayananda: Also visiting devotees should do that too. Anyone who comes here should do that.

Gopala Krsna: Everyone.

Prabhupada: You must make a rule.

Aksayananda: At least one hour in the temple.

Prabhupada: Why one hour? Four hours. Four hours. Four times. Morning, evening, night, morning again.

Aksayananda: Already the rule is made...

Prabhupada: No, no, already rules are... Just like to continue kirtana there must be four batches.

Aksayananda: Yes, four men I have...

Prabhupada: Four batches. That means six hours, four. Three hours. Three hours, not four hours. So one batch four hours. From morning six to nine. Another batch from nine to twelve. Another batch twelve to three. Another batch three to six. Again the morning batch six to...

Aksayananda: Eight different batches, that makes a total of thirty-two.

Prabhupada: That's all. Not..., why thirty-two? Twice one batch. One batch attending once in the morning, once in the evening.

Bhagatji: Sixteen. [Transl. Four men batch attending twice that's sixteen men.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Total sixteen. Four batch.] So then if there is fifty men, we cannot spare sixteen men?

Bhagatji: Two times. Two shifts.

Aksayananda: Very nice.

Prabhupada: Everything is nice. Only to be managed.

Aksayananda: Yes, it has to be done.

Prabhupada: Only to be managed. So I am prepared, I'll pay you. Even if you have no money I'll pay you five thousand. Keep fifty men.

Aksayananda: I don't think it's necessary for you to pay.

Prabhupada: So if necessary, I'm prepared. That's all right.

Aksayananda: No, it's not necessary.

Prabhupada: Then thank you. That is another thing. But fifty men you can keep. Fifty men you can keep. And there is collection in the box. There is collection by prasadam, so many other things.

Bhagatji: By selling prasadam. Donations in the altars.

Prabhupada: So that should be engaged fully in Deity worship. Not extravagant. That I shall see. I shall remain here, how things are going on. I shall manage myself. I shall see how things are going on. So anyway, fifty men, five thousand. No more twenty-five thousand. Forget. No more twenty-five.

Harikesa: That's three rupees a day.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Gopala Krsna: Three point thirty-three.

Hamsadūta: If it's three rupees, thirty paisa a day for eating, soap and toothpaste...

Prabhupada: No soap. Take this Radha-kunḍa's... Why soap? You are so devotee of Radha-kunḍa, why you require soap? This is nonsense. You take earth from the Radha-kunḍa or Vrndavana. Vrndavana-dhūli dust. Why you require soap?

Bhagatji: [Transl. Prabhupada, it has been fifteen years I haven't use any soap.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are going to Radha-kunḍ and they need soap!]

Bhagatji: I don't use soap.

Prabhupada: [Transl. I am saying you are going to Radha-kunḍ and you want soap? Just see! Are such fools really going to Radha-kunḍ? They are going to naraka-kunḍ [hellish kunḍ]. Those who go to hellish kunḍ they require soap. Those who want to go to Radha-kunḍ, they don't need soap.]

Nim dantana? I was doing nim dantana until the teeth fell down. You will know that I was collecting nim. But now it is impossible. That also I have manufactured my own toothpaste. I purchase only the brush, and I made my toothpaste at home. I never used any toothpaste. Even in my young days, I never used. You have seen it practically. Not only that now I have become sannyasi. When I was grhastha I never used. When I was grhastha I was using that nim dantana regularly.

Aksayananda: So we'll do, definitely.

Prabhupada: And I can give you the paste.

Aksayananda: The recipe.

Prabhupada: So if you cannot use nim dantana, you can use this paste. Very simple.

Bhagatji: [Transl. Tell me the recipe.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why should I disclose? I will tell. That's my secret. Now stop all this and that. Just take the formula whatever you are able to manage. That's all.]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Everything will be all right. Definitely. Now everything will be okay. We will reduce the number of devotees. Then all these…We won't allow outsiders to live here, many outsiders come but they don't do any service. Now it will be okay.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who comes from outside?]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Devotees come, visitors come and they don't do any work. They roam around here and there. We will tell them to chant and do some service, otherwise you stay in the guest house and pay. Those who live in the brahmacari asrama they have to….]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who is outsider?]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. Devotees, those who come for visiting…]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Many devotees come.]

Aksayananda: One problem is that these devotees who are not serious, we say they cannot stay here. Yet, because they are still attracted to Vrndavana, many times they go and find a place outside the temple in Vrndavana, and they make a bad example. This problem we cannot solve. Or they go to Radha-kunḍa and live. We say, "You cannot stay here because you won't help in some way." Therefore they...

Prabhupada: No, cannot stay... You can allow three days free.

Gopala Krsna: Three days. Okay.

Prabhupada: You can receive guest for three days. Not permanently. And they can... That is very reasonable. If they have come, spending so much to Vrndavana, they cannot pay?

Gopala Krsna: They usually have money. Everyone who comes from America, Europe, has some money.

Prabhupada: Then? What is the difficulty? What is the difficulty if they have got money?

Bhagatji: See the shop here. See all the shop, whether they have got money or not. You have opened a canteen here, and you can note from there who has got money.

Prabhupada: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming, provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sadhu's asrama, especially grhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows, "The sadhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience, that "I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something." But not that... That should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. [Transl. Manage things nicely.] I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise.

Bhagatji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, it must be so that] per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that. Even..., how many devotees are here now?]

Aksayananda: We have sixty. About sixty.

Gopala Krsna: More than that.

Aksayananda: Sixty, sixty-three. There are many women over there. Usually there's about sixty. Normally there has been about...

Prabhupada: Up to fifty I take charge. I shall pay hundred rupees per head.

Gopala Krsna: We don't need more than fifty, Srila Prabhupada, because Hyderabad needs devotees.

Prabhupada: If there are more, they can go to other centers.

Gopala Krsna: Now we have the farm in Hyderabad. Mahamsa's asking for men for the farm, for the temple. They can give...

Prabhupada: Yes, we have got the biggest farm.

Gopala Krsna: Six-hundred-acre farm.

Prabhupada: As we have organized New Vrindavan farm and Philadelphia farm, so the farm was also to be organized by you. That was the contemplation. So six hundred acres of land. Very nice land. Very nice land. Six hundreds, and it is not with gravel like Vrndavana, but very fertile land.

Harikesa: It can produce enough food to feed the whole society.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Bhagatji: Irrigation system?

Prabhupada: Irrigation?

Hamsadūta: Prabhupada? Do you want me to take care of that scheme still?

Gopala Krsna: That would be best.

Prabhupada: Why not?

Hamsadūta: The thing is, the money that I had put aside for that farm I gave to Mahamsa, so he should give it back.

Prabhupada: You should be very much encouraged.

Hamsadūta: No, the money that I put aside to start that farm, to buy some irrigation equipment and so forth-initial investment-I gave it to Mahamsa on your order, one lakh of rupees.

Prabhupada: One lakh?

Hamsadūta: I gave him one lakh.

Gopala Krsna: This is for construction, and he's going to give it back.

Prabhupada: No, that is for construction. That is not for the farm.

Harikesa: No, no, that money, I intended to use for the farm. But it took so long to get that farm. So when... You said that he should pay it back.

Prabhupada: No, that can be... That I guaranteed. That I guaranteed one lakh, that if he does not pay, I shall do it. That guarantee still.

Hamsadūta: Should I develop that scheme there?

Prabhupada: Yes, let us have the farm first of all. I do not know what is the position now.

Gopala Krsna: It's coming soon, Mahamsa said. So he can develop the farm.

Prabhupada: So your main business should be mahad-vicalanamm. Calanam vicalanam. [SB 10.8.4]

Hamsadūta: It's just that in this one particular problem it would be better, that's all. He has already sent them away. He has already sent a number of men away.

Gopala Krsna: Who? And they are all the temple devotees. What I'm saying is don't rob men from these temples have to be supported. They're taking away men from the temples, and the temples...

Hamsadūta: I don't want to make a fuss, but right now there are six or seven first-class men who are working in your temple who are on this party.

Gopala Krsna: Take them all, but still the temple will go on.

Prabhupada: He can take them.

Gopala Krsna: Take them out.

Hamsadūta: That's what I'm afraid, that he's going to...

Prabhupada: No, no, no. Your men you take.

Gopala Krsna: I am only requesting you to return the temple devotees which you have stolen. That's all. I don't want men from this party. We will manage it. Just return the temple devotees.

Hamsadūta: There are other men who are... [talking back and forth to Gopala Krsna-indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yesterday I told him that temple painting is going on... Who is painting? I never saw.

Bhagatji: [Transl. They are here from 9 AM to 5 PM. 8 hours. They start at 9 o clock and work till 5 o clock.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How do they paint the roof?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. They have already finished upstairs. They use a ladders, tie bamboos in front of the temple up and down and make stairs.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And at the bottom?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. The other side.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The other side?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. That side. Back side.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where in the back side?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. The place where prasadam is sold.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Really?]

Aksayananda: So we should have one kitchen only. One kitchen? As we had discussed last night. Now we have a Deity kitchen and a devotee kitchen. We also have a guesthouse kitchen.

Prabhupada: Why three?

Bhagatji: You have nothing to do with guest house kitchen.

Gopala Krsna: Guest house kitchen is separate.

Aksayananda: So the devotee kitchen and Deity kitchen could be made into one.

Gopala Krsna: That's decided.

Aksayananda: Yes. So I'll give you a list of the preparations we'll offer, for your approval. It means we'll be offering less to the Deity.

Prabhupada: What is difficulty?

Bhagatji: [Transl. Prabhupada, their expenditure is separate. Only garland and flowers cost 1600 rupees per month. Previously it was 2000 rupees. I cut down 500 rupees and made it to 1500 rupees.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. 1600 rupees of flowers?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Flowers, garlands everything per month. 50 rupees per day.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is cheating!]

Bhagatji: [Transl. As you order it will be done.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Do they actually supply 50 rupees worth of flowers?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Yes, they do. Flowers are required.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then buy flower only for the Deities. What is the use of decorating my vyasasana with so many flowers? Just buy 5 to 7 garlands for the Deities.] How many Deities are there? Guru-Gaurahga, four; Krsna-Balarama, two; six, and...

Aksayananda: Krsna, Radha and the gopis.

Prabhupada: Ten. So...

Gopala Krsna: Then small Radha-Krsna.

Aksayananda: [Transl. And small Deity of Radha-Krsna.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So 4 Radha-Krsna, 2 Krsna-Balarama, 4 Guru-Gaurahga.]

Aksayananda: Then small Deities of Gaur-Nitai.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Small Deities small garlands. How much does a garland cost?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Garland…There are different types of garlands. I think rose garland is one rupee per garland. Another kind of rose garland is 75 paisa each. Tulsi garland 1.25 paisa each.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We neither want tulsi garland nor rose garland. We want simple garland.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Then it will be very cheap.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's what I want.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. For the Lord sevanti: Chrysanthemums, jasmine, rose garlands should be….]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sometimes we can use. Not every day.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. You tell me the budget and I will arrange the flowers. You let me know how much you want to spend on flowers. That's all. I will take care.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How much is this garland cost?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Prabhupada, this garland is very cheap.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Tell me the price.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. This is tagar: [Crape jasmine garland. Maximum 50 paisa.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. 50 paisa?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Yes. Jasmine garland will be 1 rupee.]

Prabhupada: I don't think it is problem.

Aksayananda: [Transl. This garland is 50 paisa?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Very less.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Show me the garland.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Is it 50 paisa?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. It is maximum 75 paisa. Or 60 paisa or 50 paisa. It is tagar garland Prabhupada. Tagar is not a quality flower.]

Prabhupada: What is your idea? [break]

Gopala Krsna: The devotee Mahaksa was in Indore. The CID is going to our Life Members and harassing them.

Aksayananda: "Why are you with them? How much are they paying you?"

Gopala Krsna: They are scared of becoming our members now. Even in Chandigarh, Caitya-guru told me your books were on display in one Life Member's stores-he has two stores-and CID went to him and said, "Why are you displaying these books? What's your connection? Why're you helping Hare Krsna?"

Prabhupada: So selling books is illegal?

Gopala Krsna: No, but they are just suspecting, they're so suspicious.

Prabhupada: What is that suspicious? We have got books. We are selling.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. They..., you know, because of those... Now we can defeat them, because of that meeting with Defense[?] Minister. [indistinct] But point is...

Prabhupada: [Transl. Is book selling illegal?]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Not illegal at all.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We are selling religious books.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. There is no such law.]

Aksayananda: They just harass us. They don't do any action. They just keep bothering us.

Indian man: Two CID inspectors came to my house. And they said they have got so many things in their basements. So I told, "You have come without informing me, and I was not informed them. So please come to me one day and decide what is it. You come back. You come with me." I took and I showed...

Prabhupada: [Transl. What did he say?]

Indian man: Sir, I showed everything. [Transl. Nothing is there. See everything.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are very much against us.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. Simply propaganda. He said, "you are Indians. For your help" I said, "What help? "You want to help me to go to materialism? [indistinct] They are not CIAs, they're not intelligence agencies. They are simply devotees. They have come from foreign country and they are..."]

Gopala Krsna: No, the living is simple, then they will see, yes, that's simple...

Prabhupada: And where is the car you have purchased?

Gopala Krsna: Ambassador.

Aksayananda: It's in Indore now.

Indian man: Indian car.

Prabhupada: Where it is?

Aksayananda: Madhya Pradesh. I put one brahmacari in charge of it.

Prabhupada: They are using?

Aksayananda: Yes, very well.

Gopala Krsna: They're preaching.

Aksayananda: Very good boys looking after.

Bhagatji: [Transl. Don't worry Prabhupada. I have motorcycle. To go to court, to go to Chata or Kosi. To call somebody anytime day and night.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. Its all right.]

Aksayananda: It's a very good car, Prabhupada. Jaya.

Gopala Krsna: Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. There must be utsaha.]

Bhagatji: [Transl. utsaha and dhairya.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. When I went there I was not successful in one day only. Great deal of patience. I was loitering in the streets for one and half years. And the visa department would renew for ten dollars.]

Gopala Krsna: In Canada you had problem. I remember when you came to Montreal in '68.

Prabhupada: Oh, you did not know. Canada, I had very little problem. US, it was always problem. Rather, Canada helped me.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. Immigration you got.

Prabhupada: Canada, I immediately I got immigration in Canada. Then I got some standing, that "Never mind, I have got now immigration in Canada. It will be easier from Canada to go to USA." Then again I tried for USA. And it was obtained within three months, and spending only within hundred dollars. And there, in America, they were spending each time $150, the lawyer was taking. He was phoning, "Will you please send $150 for this expense?" And how many times he has taken I do not know. They were paying. Rayarama was at that time chief man. He immediately... This was going on. Then when I came to Canada... First of all, I made my position secure, that "Let me have Canadian immigration."

Gopala Krsna: Yes. I remember that.

Prabhupada: So Canadian immigration I got very soon. I think within two months. Then I applied for USA immigration. So US immigration I got within three months. And I paid, I think, within hundred dollars. So... You know. When I came to Montreal?

Harikesa: Very easy.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. You went for the interview with the US Consulate in Montreal before you got your green card for America.

Prabhupada: No, no. In Montreal went...

Gopala Krsna: Yes, you came from Vancouver... From Seattle.

Harikesa: You came from Vancouver. You had an interview with one gentleman.

Gopala Krsna: With Shasti-mani[?].

Prabhupada: Yes. So there was hard struggle. It is not that so easy for... In 1965 to '66, 66, 67, regular hard struggle.

Hamsadūta: Yes, I know that's a crisis.

Prabhupada: But who know that? Hard struggle. So Krsna gave us some facilities. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we... Sato vrtteḥ sadhu-sahge. That is Rūpa Gosvami's line. We should be very honest and live with sadhu, those who are devotees. Tahdera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvamis.

You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahaprabhu...

That should be our prayer. "When Rūpa Gosvami, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet?" And that is... Narottama dasa Thakura prays, tahdera carana-sebi. Tahdera means the six Gosvamis. Ei chaya gosani yahra tahra mui dasa. "I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvamis." And we pray to our Guru Maharaja, rūpanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta-harine. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rūpa Gosvami, reject him. Rūpanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta. This is our process. Ei chay gosai yahr.

Who will understand Radha-Krsna's loving affairs unless one has gone really through the instruction of Rūpa Gosvami? Radha-Krsna loving affairs is not so easy. Radha-kunḍa is not so easy that by force I go to Radha-kunḍa, I become a candidate.

Narottama dasa Thakura is hankering, "When I shall understand about Radha-kunḍa, Radha-Krsna's prema?" Such liberated great devotees, acaryas, they are hankering. Rūpa-raghunatha-pade haibe akuti, kabe hama bujhaba. "When I shall understand?" And they have understood immediately everything.[Sab janta Lawrence.] [Transl. All-knowing Mr. Lawrence.] That is natural. Not so easy. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given us the facility.

That is the special verse. It is not very easy thing. Bahūnam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg 7.19]. Don't take things very easily. Things are very serious. Therefore we have to go step by step. That is, Narottama dasa Thakura said, tahdera sahge. Aim should be how to serve Rūpa-Raghunatha, Rūpa-Raghunatha. And bhakta-sane basa, pure devotee, to stay with pure devotee who has no other intention. Anyabhilasita-sūnyam [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11]. This is the process. So do it carefully. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

[break] In the morning we shall go to take my milk from the booth. I'll go early so that I may take the first. Then come back, then take my bath early in the morning. I did not take hot water. Cold water. Even in severe winter. Hm, then?

Harikesa: And one boy called Radha-Damodara dasa from New... Did I mention this, or... [break] [end]