Room Conversation – June 17, 1975, Honolulu

New York was going to be spoiled. I do not wish to revive the memory

Prabhupada: Dispatching is not possible.

Govinda dasi: It breaks.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: If it were dispatched, it would break.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is very much fragile. You can make on the spot and keep it.

Govinda dasi: So we have to use some hard material that will dispatch nicely.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Govinda dasi: The original… These Deities, the original one I made with a framework like that, and then with clay, the original one I made. And then I met Vrsni-he was going to the university at that time-and he made a mold for it out of plaster. And then we experimented with hydrostone; it didn't work too good. And then we made the Deities from the molds, out of the mache, paper mache. The original one was clay.

Vrsni: They're having trouble with the paper mache?

Prabhupada: Ah?

Vrsni: There is some trouble with the paper mache, with the Deities?

Prabhupada: Yes, some moth attacked them. I was informed by Gurukrpa.

Govinda dasi: I don't think they actually know if it is attacking or if maybe it is just living in there.

Prabhupada: Ah?

Vrsni: If you have some idea, speak.

Govinda dasi: Well there is some idea that maybe the roaches were eating this hard stuff. I don't know how it could eat it. They may just be living in there.

Vrsni: The roaches, or…?

Govinda dasi: The roaches? I don't know. The roaches or moths or something. So I don't know. Could you examine them and tell?

Vrsni: I suppose, if there were some holes or something.

Govinda dasi: It's not certain whether they're actually being attacked or eaten. It's not certain. It's just that they're present there; the bugs are present there. But whether they're actually eating is not for certain. I suspect it's not certain.

Vrsni: But the…

Govinda dasi: I don't believe that it's certain.

Vrsni: The bugs will be there no matter what they're made out of, unless something is done to keep the bugs away.

Govinda dasi: That's what I told them.

Vrsni: They just like to live underneath things, that's all.

Govinda dasi: In such an instance, should they exterminate? I know they spray to kill these bugs weekly. In such an instance in a temple, should the bugs be killed?

Prabhupada: I do not know. I heard…

Vrsni: What kind of…, what kind of material and finish would you prefer them to be made of?

Prabhupada: Hmm? What kind?

Vrsni: What kind of material would you prefer the Deities to be constructed out of?

Prabhupada: He said marble powder?

Vrsni: It is impossible right now.

Govinda dasi: It would be nice if we could do it.

Prabhupada: Or cement?

Vrsni: Cement is possible.

Govinda dasi: Something very hard and sturdy, something comparable to cement that we could… [break]

Prabhupada: ...experience right here. On Gaurasundara's point and on Sudamas point. So that is big. But these things have happened only here, not any other place. New York was going to be spoiled. I do not wish to revive the memory. It is useless. They made their own program, manufacture some concocted ideas, and set fire to the standard-fallen. This is the difficulty. As soon as we deteriorate our standard, then everything will be spoiled. Therefore I am so much strict about the standard. And our these Western boys, they are always manufacturing ideas. Always. Just like this boy, asking, "Can I make silk?" He is being asked for making dolls, and he's asking to manufacture silk. Just see. They're simply concocting how to make, these things spoil. I have to deal with them. Their ideas are how to spoil the standard, that's all. Restless. He was asking for manufacturing silk. Who asked him to manufacture silk?

Govinda dasi: His wife?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Govinda dasi: Perhaps his wife wanted to do it.

Prabhupada: Why? For silk they are not dying.

Govinda dasi: She is into weaving wool. She takes raw wool and weaves it. And so she likes to do that.

Prabhupada: Wool, wool?

Govinda dasi: Wool.

Prabhupada: But he's…, he's saying silk.

Govinda dasi: But now she wants to do silk. So maybe that's why. They bought one loom.

Prabhupada: Wool, wool is… Wool means this earth.

Siddha-svarupa: Wool is from sheep.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Siddha-svarupa: They don't kill them.

Prabhupada: I know that. And why not make cotton wool?

Govinda dasi: Cotton wool?

Prabhupada: Cotton wool is available from the tree. You know that?

Govinda dasi: Yes, cotton's from…

Prabhupada: Cotton wool.

Siddha-svarupa: Cotton grows well in Hawaii.

Govinda dasi: Well… Yes.

Prabhupada: Then utilize that. Make thread, make cloth. Which is available naturally, utilize it. Don't bother very much.

Govinda dasi: It's so easy to get such things, though.

Prabhupada: Ah?

Govinda dasi: It's so easy to get such things. They're… To buy them cheaply.

Prabhupada: Cotton, he said there are many trees.

Siddha-svarupa: Well, there are not…, ah… They're… In some places there are.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Siddha-svarupa: But if somebody wanted to grow it, they could grow it very easily.

Prabhupada: Grow it. Yes. As far as possible, grow. You have got enough land-grow. This practice will save your time. You are loitering here and there. Try to be self-sufficient in a place, for the needs. Don't create needs. Whatever is available, meet your needs from that.

Siddha-svarupa: Even our food.

Prabhupada: Everything.

Siddha-svarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Our first necessity is food and clothing. So that can be done anywhere: you grow your food and grow your cloth, the material necessities. And you can have a small cottage. We should always remember that we are not materialists. We are not going to pompous show that "I have got this material possession." That is not our business. But because we have got this body, that is the basic principle of Vedic civilization. We need something to eat, to sleep, so finish this business as simply as possible, and save time for spiritual advancement. Just see. Vyasadeva has given unique literature, Srimad-Bhagavatam. Not only Srimad-Bhagavatam-there is Mahabharata, Puranas, Upanisads. There is no such literature throughout the world-you can say throughout the universe. But at least you cannot find such duplicate literature any part of the world. And the Gosvamis, they were in cottage. They were not after this so-called material life. That is simply a waste of time. These rascals, they…, they spending so much energy for devising this skyscraper building. One man is devising; another man…, another man is devising another way. In this way, they are spoiling the valuable time of life. That is the defect of this. And they have no time to grow natural food; their energy is being misused for standing in skyscraper building. And therefore to make shortcut of their eating, kill the animal. Just like uncivilized man in the primitive age, they did not how to produce food. Kill one animal and eat.

So these rascals, they're still barbarian because they have diverted their energy in making machine, motorcar and this skyscraper building. So no growing, no food, so the same primitive… They used to kill one animal; that is going on. They remain the barbarian. Simply they have learned some craftsmanship, that's all. But the mentality is barbarian. The uncivilized man, in the primitive… Uncivilized man is still there; it is not Darwin's theory, that now uncivilized. That chapter is always there. But civilized man, they have turned their attention in some ludicrous activities and keeping themselves in the same barbarian stage-kill some animal, kill some bird-to make shortcut. They did not know how to get fruits, flowers, grains, and how to cook them nicely and offer to the Deity and then chant, dance and take prasadam. The uncivilized man did not know that. So they're remaining still the same uncivilized barbarians. They do not know the civilized way of life. And their intelligence is being utilized in technology so much. Now they're finding difficulty in educational system: the boys are going hell. They have to conduct education with guns and police.

Siddha-svarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Now the result is coming. The whole society is in chaos. And they are coming to that.

Siddha-svarupa: They will have to be very repressive.

Prabhupada: Everything will be. There will be atomic war. The Communists, the capitalists, the children spoilt, hippies, and whole thing is hell. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: when there is varna-saṅkara, the world will become hellish. Varna-saṅkara means not civilized man, but topsy-turvy. Nobody knows who is brahmana, who is ksatriya-all mixed up, conglomeration. This is called varna-saṅkara. The hippies are typical example. So they're coming to that stage. Then the whole world will be hell. You haven't got to go to hell-Yamaraja-you create hell here, and live. It is already there-not so much manifest, but it will be manifest very… I'll cut your throat; you'll cut my throat. [pause]

Vedic civilization is to develop brains how to understand God, not develop brain for technology. These things are being done by the demons: big, big palaces, wonderful aeroplane, like that. They're interested in… The demons, they're not interested in God; rather, they have got good brain, they utilize. So modern civilization is demonic because their brain is being utilized for things which are done by the demons. Just like Ravana, he was very much advanced in material opulence, but still he has been designated as raksasa. He has not been given any credit. Raksasa. Hmm.

Siddha-svarupa: Thank you very much. [devotees offer obeisances] [end]