Room Conversation – January 8, 1977, Bombay

Liberated means no more material anxiety

Prabhupada: ...Headquarters in Vrndavana. And try to organize this Gurukula as their world attraction. That will be your success. Simply teach them nicely English and Sanskrit. And our books are there. And regular habits: going to the Yamuna in procession, timely get up early in the morning, attending class, clean dress, clean bedding, clean room. Sikha-sutra. That Vamanadeva gave this description. Where is that book?

Jagadisa: I don't know. Pradyumna may have taken it.

Prabhupada: There are two books.

[pause] Woman... Girls should be taught how to become faithful wife, how to learn nice cooking, cleansing, dressing. Simple method. There is no objection of their becoming scholar, but that is not necessary. They have got natural inclination to give service by cooking, cleansing, dressing. Cleanliness is the first necessity. That is hygienic, spiritual and calm, quiet. India has got special facility to remain clean. Only in this country you can take thrice bathing. In other countries... It is easy there. In your country there is hot water. There is no difficulty if one practices. I think our men have such practice. But this cleanness is this taking bathing at least twice. That keeps a man very clean.

Jagadisa: Yes. Since I've been taking two baths a day, unless I have two baths I don't feel clean. Sometimes I am very busy and don't get to bathe twice, and then I feel very dirty.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: I don't feel clean if I don't have three.

Prabhupada: Also. He also. He also takes. So if it is practiced, it keeps health very nice. I was taking all along. Since I was attacked, heart, they said you should be careful from catching cold.

Hari-sauri: You wanted that description of Vamanadeva as the dwarf brahmacari? It says, "Mother Earth gave Him a deerskin, and the demigod of the moon, who is the king of the forest, gave Him a brahma-danda, the rod of a brahmacari. His mother, Aditi, gave Him a cloth for underwear, and the deity presiding over the heavenly kingdom offered Him an umbrella. O King, Lord Brahma offered a waterpot to the inexhaustible Supreme Personality of Godhead. The seven sages offered Him kusa grass, and mother Sarasvati gave Him a string of rudraksa beads. When Vamanadeva had thus been given the sacred thread, Kuvera, the king of the Yaksas, gave Him a pot for begging alms."

Prabhupada: In Kanpur there is a brahmacari asrama. Sometimes grhasthas, they invite the brahmacaris, to feed them, and when a brahmacari is initiated, they give them this pot. So that brahmacari asrama, the man who is maintaining, he occasionally collects these pots, so, and he sells all these pots to a brass merchant. People give sacred thread, a pot. As they give in charity to the brahmanas, they give in charity to the brahmacaris.

Hari-sauri: It says, "Kuvera, the king of the Yaksas, gave Him a..."

Prabhupada: Another system is: during the initiation time, somebody becomes godmother of the brahmacari and gives some money.

Hari-sauri: Yeah, that's described here. It's described here. It says, "Kuvera gave Him a pot for begging alms, and mother Bhagavati, the wife of Lord Siva and most chaste mother of the entire universe, gave Him His first alms."

Prabhupada: Bhiksa-mata. Bhiksa means giving alms. At least every woman becomes a bhiksa-mata, alms-giving mother. This is system. My mother was bhiksa-mata to one brahmana. He is the son of our priest. Family priest, family guru, bhiksa-mata, still in Hindu family the system is still going on-brahmana visiting daily, informing, "Today is this tithi. The duty is this, the sunrise at this time is..." This is brahmana's duty, to go to the neighboring householders, and whatever they give, take. That is brahmana's art. At the same time, they keep some medicine. Every house there is some ailments, they'll give some medicine. Still. Now it is not so... In our childhood every day some brahmana visitor would come.

[pause] So I will take massage like yesterday, early.

Hari-sauri: Right here?

Prabhupada: Hmm, hmm. I want to show again.

Hari-sauri: Yes. Palika's in there now.

Prabhupada: So why Palika is not helping her to get the beads?

Hari-sauri: She's already got it on. I don't know why she didn't come out.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. Your tilaka is not proper.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Yes, tilaka is not correct.]

Prabhupada: Call Palika.

[to Palika:] Just teach her... Take her in the kitchen and teach her how to make tilaka.

Palika: How to make tilaka, yes.

Prabhupada: Tilaka, dvadasa-tilaka. You just go and learn.

[break] What is that?

[break] Otherwise there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. Actually there is no death. This forgetfulness is death. We have forgotten who was our father, who was our mother, where I was born. That is death. And otherwise I am the soul, continuing. Just like in childhood so many things we did, but we have forgotten. The forgetfulness is death. The more one forgets, the more one is dead. Otherwise there is no death. Na jayate na mriyate va [Bg 2.20]: "Never takes birth, never dies." Then what is death? Death is forgetfulness.

[pause] So you can begin now.

[break] ...big, big buildings, the same spirit as karmis are doing. But this desire to construct very big building, when transferred for Krsna, that is bhakti. So we have got this tendency, everyone, to possess money, to have very big buildings and so on, so on. You do it for Krsna; then it will be bhakti. Otherwise karma. And karma means to be bound up by the laws of nature. So? What is... [break]

Gopala Krsna: ...parayanah sudurlabhah prasantatma kotisv api maha-mune [SB 6.14.5]: "O great sage, out of many millions of materially liberated people who are free from ignorance, and out of many millions of siddhas who have merely attained perfection, there's hardly one pure devotee of Narayana. Only such a devotee is actually completely satisfied and peaceful." [break]

Prabhupada: This is devotee. It is not so easy. But we are giving chance to everyone to come to that position. This is our Krsna consciousness. But otherwise it is very, very difficult. Muktanam. It begins from the mukta, liberated. Liberated means no more material anxiety.

Gopala Krsna: That stage is little far for us.

Prabhupada: But if you follow the vow...

Gopala Krsna: The principle...

Prabhupada: ...then it will be possible.

Gopala Krsna: I find that as a grhastha only sometime it's a little difficult, because a grhastha has to worry about taking care of his...

Prabhupada: Family.

Gopala Krsna: ...family's needs, clothing, this, that. It becomes a problem, where to get the money from. But otherwise...

Prabhupada: And that is also different standard. People are not satisfied with simple living.

Gopala Krsna: So they want...

Prabhupada: Therefore there is certain age, that "At this age no more such ambition, material. Lead simple life and advance." That is after fiftieth year. This is our Vedic system. In the beginning it is not possible, but by practicing... So if one lives for hundred years, fifty years' extravagancy, "Now stop. Now be regulated and try to be mukta." This is the system. But they don't want even up to the point of death, even men like Gandhi and others. They do not want. This morning Indira Gandhi said that "I am for the mass of people." And Vivekananda, "My country." The same feeling as a person, individual person thinking of his family, these people are thinking of his country, a big family, not for the whole living entities, jiva. That is Krsna consciousness. Nobody is interested in the sastric injunction. They've lost them all. Temporary. This is an institution to elevate people gradually.

[break] If we follow our own authorized... [indistinct; microphone moving]

Gopala Krsna: It is not very difficult. I don't find it very...

Prabhupada: Not at all.

Gopala Krsna: But I used to work in New York outside all the time, but I didn't find it so difficult.

Prabhupada: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have charted, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopala Krsna: If one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupada: [sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off] No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopala Krsna: Stop the fan? Srila Prabhupada, I may not be going to the Kumbha-mela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: That's all right. There is Gurudasa and there others.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupada: No, you stay here.

Gopala Krsna: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation, but not sell it. They are such... Tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two..., one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.

Prabhupada: So you want to keep there? [end]