Room Conversation – January 8, 1977, Bombay

Might is Right

Prabhupada: [indistinct] [break] India is still for monarchy, not for democracy. They would like. If they get ideal king, they'll accept it. So if you can, and if she's serious, let her become ideal. The people will worship him like God. But she must be sincere. It is a fact. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana [SB 5.18.12]. She must be a pure devotee, then everything will... Let her son become pure devotee..., become a devotee, and everything is all right. That's a fact. She has respect for our movement. And Home Member also. Otherwise so much propaganda against us, they would have taken some steps. They can take any steps they like. They are in power.

Giriraja: That's true.

Prabhupada: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb. No? A lion was drinking water this side, and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy." "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" [laughs] In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb, so it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our...

Giriraja: Bhavananda.

Prabhupada: Bhavananda. Nothing was done.

Giriraja: Yes. It's true.

Prabhupada: And Lalita says that "I know Swamiji is very exalted. I am simply afraid... He has so many American disciples. If some of them do something wrong, then that will be very bad thing for him." Lalita was telling me like that. But what can I do? I will, "Come anyone." Who is bad, who is good I do not know. But I know even bad man comes, he becomes a good man. That I know. So who will come? How can I discriminate who is bad or who is good?

Giriraja: Lord Caitanya also welcomed.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Giriraja: Lord Caitanya welcomed everyone.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Lord Caitanya's movement is papi tapi yata chilo hari-name uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Krsna, they were... Papi tapi yata chilo hari-name uddharilo . How it is possible? Tara saksi jagai madhai. You see the Jagai-Madhai, how they became Vaisnava. This is Narottama dasa Thakura's song.

[pause] So you have to ask anything?

Pradyumna: Just one thing. What does... It said in a text in just one wife-about that Jarasandha. Jarasandha. Actually, the story in Mahabharata is that one half came from one wife and another half came from another.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: So that way. And it said,

And they're joined by sandhite, by Jara. Jiva jiveti kriḍantya jarasandho 'bhavat sutaḥ. So jiva jiva? Become alive?

Prabhupada: Become alive.

Pradyumna: Become alive.

Prabhupada: Jiva. Become alive.

Pradyumna: You had here, "O living entity, just be alive"?

Prabhupada: Jiva, addressing jivete. "Be alive."

Pradyumna: And kridantya. "Playing like that"?

Prabhupada: Yes. Playing, joining. "Get..., be alive, be alive." Like that.

Hari-sauri: Is that Jarasandha?

Pradyumna: Then translation, "In the womb of two other wives, two parts were begotten from Brhadratha. The mothers, seeing such parts, rejected them. Later on, one she-demon by the name Jara joined the parts." Then sounded like "engaged"?

Prabhupada: Playfully.

Pradyumna: Playfully? "Joined the parts playfully"?

Prabhupada: Joining playfully.

Pradyumna: Then she said, jiva jiva?

Prabhupada: "Get into life! Get into life!"

Pradyumna: "And having been joined by Jara in this way..." "In this way, having been joined by Jara, the son Jarasandha was born. And by joining the parts playfully, saying, 'Get into life.' "

Prabhupada: She found two parts. Generally, just like play in our childhood some doll is broken. So we used to put the head again. [laughs]

Pradyumna: Ah.

Prabhupada: So similarly, the head is there: "Join, join! You live! You live!" Like that. You had no opportunity to play like that? Every...

Giriraja: Yes. Every child.

Prabhupada: If some dish is broken, we used to try to join it. That is child's play.

Pradyumna: And the thing about Sukadeva Gosvami, that he was actually a different... So, I want to say that chaya-suka. He was different from that other... Brahmacari Sukadeva Gosvami, speaker of Bhagavata, was different from the householder.

Prabhupada: What is the word?

Pradyumna: It said in the purport, chaya-suka. So you said that is like imitation Suka, duplicate Sukadeva.

Prabhupada: Oh, chaya-suka. Yes. Duplicate. Yes. [pause] So it is up to date?

Pradyumna: Just about. I just have one little...

Prabhupada: I am not working nowadays. Still it is not up to date?

Pradyumna: I just have to go over a few things, then I'm sending out. Just this last chapter.

Prabhupada: I'm doing very little. Anyway...

Pradyumna: No, it's just this last chapter.

Prabhupada: I am in the Twenty-second Chapter.

Pradyumna: Yes. You're in Twenty-second Chapter. Twenty-first I'm going to send out.

Prabhupada: And two chapters more will finish Ninth Canto.

Hari-sauri: Hmm. You did quite a bit last night.

Prabhupada: Yes. If people actually taking like that, then there will be a revolution in the Western countries.

Hari-sauri: I don't see how they can stop it.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hari-sauri: They can't stop it.

Prabhupada: Huge quantity selling. Either Krsna's desire... It is Krsna's desire. Otherwise a religious book which is not their religion, Bhagavatam, Indian. So somehow or other it is being distributed, and they say it is spreading like...

Giriraja: Epidemic.

Prabhupada: Epidemic. [laughs] So it is a kind of revolution.

Hari-sauri: And it's not just in one place. It's every country our men have been to.

Prabhupada: Every country. Whole Europe and America. What business they have got to purchase our books in Christmas? They actually purchase them. They have no business, but they are purchasing. Huge quantity. I never expec..., dreamed even [laughs] that my books would be sold in large quantity.

Hari-sauri: They sold over one million pounds' worth of books.

Prabhupada: Bon Maharaja published a portion of the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-eleven hundred books. Still lying for the last ten years.

Hari-sauri: Bon Maharaja.

Prabhupada: Yes. And he's the rectum of such a big institute. [laughs] He can pass stool very nice. [laughter] There was no second printing. And so many scholars, Maitra, M.A., Ph.D, DDLit and so on, so on, so on. Our Dr. Kapoor wrote some book. It was given to some Benarsi Dasa. [Book publisher in Delhi]. They first of all took it, then they refused, "No. We cannot publish." So far I know.

Hari-sauri: They won't publish his books.

Prabhupada: Who will take it? A philosophical textbook? There's nobody interested. Actually, there is no customer for philosophy nowadays.

Giriraja: No.

Hari-sauri: They can't... None of these men, they just don't seem to have any realized knowledge. They write things, but it's so dry that no one wants to read it; it's so distasteful. But when you read one of your books it's so full of life. I mean, it's just to the point. It exactly describes how everybody's living, how they're thinking, what the troubles and tribulations they're going through, how they can...

Prabhupada: Somehow or other it is interesting.

Hari-sauri: Yes. It's so full of...

Prabhupada: [laughs] Otherwise why people take it? When I was..., I thought that "I am giving my imagination. Who will take it? It is my imagination." Of course, with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.

Hari-sauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men, when they speak, it just comes out... It's just not practical, or they don't know how to translate it into action.

Prabhupada: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kamam vavarsa parjanyaḥ [SB 1.10.4]. I've touched all the points in the modern...

Pradyumna: It has a very nice purport.

Prabhupada: Find out that. Kamam vavarsa parjanyaḥ [SB 1.10.4]. Parjanyaḥ...

Hari-sauri: Oh, I know it.

Prabhupada: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel...

Hari-sauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It's so... It's an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.

Prabhupada: They were my beginning speeches in your country..., in America. I was daily speaking in the evening. So Hayagriva has edited. Hmm. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The basic principle of economic development is centered on land and cows."

Prabhupada: That idea I'm still maintaining. Yes.

Pradyumna: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Maharaja Yudhisthira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and the fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality."

Prabhupada: Now Kirtanananda has sent so nice sweets.

Hari-sauri: And ghee.

Prabhupada: You have given something all other devotees?

Hari-sauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Give him some.

Hari-sauri: Palika hid them somewhere. I don't know where they are. Palika hid them away so no one would take them. [laughs]

Prabhupada: All right then. Preparing first class.

Hari-sauri: Kuladri has a box.

Prabhupada: First class. And they have got enough milk. When I went there, all nice milk preparation. Ghee, sweet rice, these sweets. Ample. All of variety. And they have ghee, then prepare kachori, samosa. Such nice thing. And how friendly the cows-just like family members. And they're giving more milk economically. That's practical. More milk. Then?

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the war field and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the war field.

Prabhupada: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are there? Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindavan. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They will appreciate. One day will come they will appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Hari-sauri: Yes. That's becoming more organized now. They have a Parents for Krishna group now.

Prabhupada: Any sane man will appreciate. Why this father, mother, came to congratulate me, "Swamiji, you have done so much"? So it is Krsna's desire that everyone be happy by taking Krsna consciousness. Then?

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Maharaja Pariksit, grandson of Maharaja Yudhisthira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Maharaja Yudhisthira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man."

Prabhupada: That's all. [laughing] We have said.

[pause] You can do one thing. We have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Take... I think you have got nim leaf dried?

Hari-sauri: Not since we've been in India. We've been using fresh nim leaves.

Prabhupada: You have got stock?

Hari-sauri: No. Not at the moment.

Prabhupada: That nim, if not in bara form, if you make some tablet, round. Something sticky.

Hari-sauri: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Then I can take two pills in the morning. That will help. This nim, [indistinct], and bara is very good. But you people say that... [laughs]

Hari-sauri: The ghee's not...

Prabhupada: Ghee's not good, that I can understand. But without little ghee, we cannot eat at all.

Hari-sauri: There's no harm for a small amount. There's not much harm for...

Prabhupada: Whatever it is… we put very little.

Hari-sauri: Wouldn't it be better just to take some fresh leaf?

Prabhupada: Fresh leaf, how can I chew it?

Hari-sauri: Too bitter. Hmm. I'll get some dried. I can dry some on the roof tomorrow.

Prabhupada: Not dry. You have to take fresh leaf. But you have to make...

Hari-sauri: Just mash it. I can just mash it and make it, roll. That would be all right.

Prabhupada: Or if you make two or three baras with nim, that is easy to take, and palatable. With chick pea flour, fresh nim leaf paste and equal quantity of chick pea flour. Just fry it.

Hari-sauri: Oh. Like those spinach pakoras.

Prabhupada: Yes. Arundhati was doing that in Vrndavana.

Hari-sauri: With nim leaf?

Prabhupada: Yes. She was doing nice.

Hari-sauri: You would like those for breakfast?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is good for me. So if Arundhati makes, she can come and tomorrow make one or two baras in the morning.

Pradyumna: Morning time. For your breakfast.

Prabhupada: So you are keeping your health all right?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: All right.

Hari-sauri: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [end]