Room Conversation – January 22, 1977, Bhubaneswar

They have got respect for prasadam. So you are distributing prasadam?

Prabhupada: They are appreciating in foreign countries also. Otherwise why these European, American boys would join? They are not fools and rascals. They understand that "Here is the genuine movement."

Indian man: Then, Prabhupada, let us take leave, and I'd like to prostrate at your feet if you will permit me.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Hare Krsna.

Indian man: And you bless us to have the same consciousness.

Prabhupada: Please come here, take care of the center.

Indian man: We belong to a hundred miles from this place.

Prabhupada: Oh, hundred miles? [break]

Brahmananda: ...here to Allahabad, I was coming from Bombay on the train. I was riding with some respectable people. They saw this button, and they said, "Oh, you are the disciple of Prabhupada?" And I said, "Yes." And they were very appreciative of your work. And then I had one Srimad-Bhagavatam, Eighth Canto, the story of Gajendra. And one man, he wanted to see the book. And he started reading it. And he kept the book throughout the whole journey, and he read the whole book, and he loved it. He said, "Your guru has written very nicely. Very simply, very directly, and everything is there." He wouldn't give me back the book until he finished it.

Prabhupada: [laughs] So our book-selling appreciated all over the world.

Brahmananda: Yes. And this is an Indian, he's a Hindu, so he knows Vedic culture, but still he liked your books very much. He said, "I've never read something like this."

Prabhupada: Our presentation is simplified. That is the beauty.

Brahmananda: Yes. That's what he appreciated.

Prabhupada: Yes. We do not make the things cumbersome.

Ramesvara: So that no one understands.

Prabhupada: [chuckles] Vyaghra mane sardūla. One student asked teacher, "What is the meaning of vyaghra?" He said "Sardūla." I... Vyaghra is already a difficult word, and he presented another difficult word.

Nanda-kumara: They don't actually know anything, so they have to speak with so much...

Prabhupada: All rascals. Therefore I call them as. My Guru Maharaja used to say, bokaloka. Bokaloka. So I was thinking, "Why he's..." Even Rabindranath Tagore, he's a bokaloka. So I was thinking that "Everyone is boka?" Now I can understand that everyone is a a boka, mūḍha. So enthusiastically do everything. You are the beginner of this movement, one of the pioneers. So you should be more vigorous. You should not lag behind anyone. You voluntarily joined. You first joined in the Tompkinson Square. So keep that spirit. What is the situation in Africa?

Brahmananda: Which? What...?

Prabhupada: About these Asian, African, like that.

Brahmananda: Well, it's the same. I mean everything is going... The government creates more difficulties, but still, everything is going on. No one is... I mean some are leaving, but of course many are staying.

Prabhupada: Is it necessary to leave?

Brahmananda: Well, the small men are leaving, but the big men, they're not leaving. Things are still going on.

Nanda-kumara: Last year the government said within five years every Asian would be out of Kenya.

Prabhupada: This government says like that?

Brahmananda: I don't know if the government has said it, but people talk like that just to create some atmosphere of uncertainty. These unstable governments, they like to create this kind of atmosphere.

Prabhupada: There are many Indians.

Brahmananda: Oh yes.

Prabhupada: Practically Indian. [chuckles]

Brahmananda: Yes, everything. Tamala, when he came there, he said that Mombasa was like Bombay...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: ...and Nairobi was like Delhi.

Prabhupada: Yes. And they are living nicely. Why this government disturbing them?

Brahmananda: Well, that is their policy.

Prabhupada: They cannot manage nicely. The Africans are not so qualified. The Indians, they are managing business, everything.

Brahmananda: Now Amin, in Uganda, he's now inviting so many Indians to come as teachers, doctors. He's getting them from India now.

Hari-sauri: He just kicked them all out.

Brahmananda: Now he's getting them back again.

Prabhupada: Such a rascal. They are thrown away from the established condition; so now he...

Brahmananda: He wants them back.

Prabhupada: In one sense it is right, that these rascals may not imitate him.

Brahmananda: Yes. That's one thing. Like Kenya, they are more sensible. They see what happened in Uganda. Uganda's economy is very bad.

Prabhupada: Finished.

Brahmananda: So they will not do the same thing.

Prabhupada: They must be intelligent persons. Otherwise how he can... The Britishers, they took away these Indians to organize Africa. Otherwise, they conquered, but the Indians organized.

Brahmananda: They were all the administrators.

Prabhupada: Yes. After all, Krsna is there. He'll look after. So, so far we are concerned, there is no disturbance.

Brahmananda: Oh, no. No.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Then develop. We are getting good place without any monetary difficulty.

Brahmananda: Then Mombasa, the leader of the community there, he has pledged to collect all the money for buying this big house, and the house is very nicely situated right in the Asian area. And he's a big contractor. Also they will do all the alterations. So this is another good opportunity.

Prabhupada: If I go, they will have objection?

Brahmananda: No, I don't think so. You mean the immigration? I don't know.

Prabhupada: No, no. Last time... Not last time. Before that.

Brahmananda: Before that there was. Nava-yogendra Maharaja, he has now gotten his... He got a work permit. He got for one year.

Prabhupada: Oh. He's intelligent. Doing nice?

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Brahmananda: So the only difficulty there is that we cannot make devotees from the local population.

Prabhupada: Either Indian or African.

Brahmananda: Yes, either one. So unless we get men from overseas, then for us to expand is very difficult. Just like for this Mombasa. We get this big house. Unless we have men to maintain it, then why should we take it?

Prabhupada: But overseas, we have got enough men.

Brahmananda: Well, we only have twelve devotees there, and two temples. It's very less.

Prabhupada: You cannot export from America?

Ramesvara: Yes, we have to. We have to.

Prabhupada: It is your missionary activities, American.

Brahmananda: So far for the Africans, we're giving them prasadam and kirtana. But anything more than that, we cannot expect. If we give them that, they are satisfied.

Prabhupada: They're hearing kirtana?

Brahmananda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Then it is all right. One day they'll come. That will cure them.

Nanda-kumara: On the street, almost any African you say "Hare Krsna," he'll say "Hare Krsna."

Prabhupada: That is nice.

Ramesvara: Hrdayananda Maharaja is becoming interested also in Africa, because it's very close to Brazil. He will also be able to send men as a demonstration of his interest.

Prabhupada: Then do it. Some way or other, manage. It is Krsna's business.

Ramesvara: I think we'll discuss this at the Mayapur meeting.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. You are so many GBCs. You can discuss now even.

Ramesvara: But the ones who are going to send the men aren't here.

Prabhupada: How many GBCs you are, present now?

Hari-sauri: Gurukrpa Maharaja...

Ramesvara: Four. And Gargamuni. Five.

Prabhupada: So what happened in Puri?

Ramesvara: [aside:] Where's Gargamuni? Is he next door?

Prabhupada: You also went. You also went.

Ramesvara: Yes, but he did the talk... He and Tejiyas did most of the talking in the local language.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Ramesvara: But we...

Satsvarūpa: The owners are in Calcutta. It finally traced out.

Ramesvara: Well, we found out that the government has now taken an interest in buying this property, all the properties on the beach. The government is looking for different excuses-maybe someone violates his lease or he doesn't keep the property according to the lease. Somehow or other, the government wants to develop the land for hotel. So our idea is that there's two properties which are good for us. One of them, the government is already committed to buying, and the other one the government is interested in buying but has not yet purchased. So for the first one we can approach the government officials directly.

Prabhupada: No, then this Pattanayaka can help.

Ramesvara: Yes. And their main interest is foreign exchange from the tourists. So if we offer them U.S. dollars to purchase the property, they may think, "Why should we waste our time developing when they will give us lakhs in U.S. dollars, and let them develop?"

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: So they may sell it to us on that basis.

Prabhupada: Yes. We shall develop. [break]

Gargamuni: ...talking about in Puri, that there's a class of men who are preaching that because of Caitanya's movement, Islam was spreading because the king became somewhat weakened, they have said. So I met one such man there also at the Puri Hotel. He said, "What is this Hare Krsna? By this Caitanya cult the Islam has spread," he was saying. So I told him what you said, that "We do not get any information historically. In fact it was the reverse, that this Hussain, the Nawab Hussain Shah, he became a great follower." He said, "No, that is not written anywhere." I said, "No, it is in Caitanya-caritamrta." He did not accept Caitanya-caritamrta as historic fact. He was a crazy man.

Prabhupada: Demon.

Gargamuni: He was crazy also.

Ramesvara: You also blasted him. What did you say?

Hari-sauri: Tell him about those men who came to support you.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Then he was saying, "Our Vivekananda, he never did this Hare Krsna. He's never done this." I said, "Well, actually..."

Prabhupada: "What benefit you have got from Vivekananda?" You did not ask? What bene...?

Gargamuni: No. I told him that "Actually Prabhupada, he has done more work than Vivekananda in helping to spread India's dharma all over the world." I had to be very careful because there were many other people sitting around, including the manager, and I didn't want to start a fight. So I said, "Actually, Prabhupada has done greater work." He said [in shocked tone], "What have you said? You have said that your guru is greater than Vivekananda?" I said, "He has done more work." And he started, "No. You cannot say that." Then two other men who were sitting there stood up and said, "No! He has done more work." He said, "I was at the Olympic games, and I heard the whole thing was chanting, in Montreal. Last year I was at the Olympic games, and I saw them all chanting Hare Krsna. He has done more work." Two men, they came. So I just sat there and let those two men argue.

Prabhupada: [chuckling] It is Krsna's grace.

Gargamuni: Yes. He was very nice man. He was glorifying you. He said, "I have read their magazine."

Ramesvara: We were selling books and having kirtana at the Montreal Olympics.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: So he was seeing that.

Gargamuni: So he saw that personally. He said it was a great thing.

Prabhupada: At that time Hamsadūta was there.

Ramesvara: No, this is just this last year.

Prabhupada: Oh, last year.

Ramesvara: Just 1976, in the summer...

Gargamuni: Last summer.

Ramesvara: ...end of summer. From our temple in Toronto and in Montreal they combined to cover. Because there were hundreds of thousands of people, so it was a good opportunity to sell books.

Prabhupada: Gurudasa went there, eh? Gurudasa?

Hari-sauri: No. He went to that Habitat Conference. That was different thing.

Gargamuni: So this man, he saw he was outnumbered, so he said, "All right, let us not talk."

Prabhupada: [laughs] A bogus.

Gargamuni: He's Chatterjee. He's Calcutta demon. I think Chatterjee is brahmana name, but he is talking like demon.

Prabhupada: The Ravana was also Chatterjee. He was the son of Kasyapa, brahmana. Bankim Babu wrote one book. The name of the book was Chatterjee and Bannerjis. [pause] So they're being distributed prasadam? No. [crowd can be heard in background]

Nanda-kumara: The prasadam is there. I'll see if...

Prabhupada: No... Somebody talking?

Brahmananda: There's so many... So much noise. They must be taking.

Gargamuni: There were many foreigners we saw in Puri. One busload came, busload of foreigners.

Prabhupada: In Puri many foreigners come. It is tourist city.

Nanda-kumara: Everyone is taking prasadam. [break]

Prabhupada: They have got respect for prasadam. So you are distributing prasadam?

Brahmananda: Yes, twice a day, at noon and at evening. We've built a special pavilion on the side of the temple. See, we were making the mistake all along of trying to mix the Africans and the Asians together.

Prabhupada: That is not good.

Brahmananda: That was a bad policy. Now we have separate: the Asians on one side and the Africans on the other side, and both are happy.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Brahmananda: Before they were both unhappy. Now they're both happy.

Prabhupada: No, the Indians, they do not like to sit down...

Gargamuni: No. Indians don't like to mix, and Africans also, they like to be with their own. And we have a... The instruments we use... They make their own instruments out of different materials. They have these pieces of metal and wooden blocks. [laughs] They love it. They can make as much noise... Actually the Asians like it very much when they see the Africans doing that. So both are very happy.

Prabhupada: That's nice. All right.

Ramesvara: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break]

Prabhupada: ...calling brahmana. We are feeding so many Vaisnavas daily. All right, make that arrangement.

Ramesvara: Jaya Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: One day we shall stay, and if it is very nice, we can stay one or two days. But as Gargamuni described, it is very nice.

Gargamuni: Yes. The room is a little... It's smaller than this room.

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter.

Gargamuni: Maybe the same size. I think it's the same size. And there's bathroom and porch.

Prabhupada: Then?

Gargamuni: It's nice. It's peaceful and quiet.

Abhirama: No trucks going. Prabhupada was complaining a little bit.

Gargamuni: No. There's no... You're off the main road, very much so. Then you go at least two miles off the highway. Then you make another right turn, and you go through a village. And then you come to a big opening, and the temple is there with bathing ghata. There is also tube well where you can get very good water. And the cottage is just on the other side of the mandir.

Prabhupada: Very nice place.

Gargamuni: Yes. It's very nice. Very peaceful.

Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu stayed there, and Nityananda Prabhu stayed. Madhavendra Puri stayed. It is very important place.

Gargamuni: On our way down here we also stayed overnight. On my way down here.

Prabhupada: Very good. So what did you pay?

Gargamuni: I gave them donation of twenty-one rupees for the night. I gave for the... [end]