Room Conversation – February 14, 1977, Māyāpur

Tamala Krsna: It seems like it will be a long court case.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Tamala Krsna: But they have no case.

Prabhupada: They have no case.

Tamala Krsna: They're simply creating some, you know, problems, making propaganda against our society.

Prabhupada: Yes. That will advertise us.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Indirect profit.

Tamala Krsna: So many people now are being forced to take our side and defend us. So many... All the intelligent people of the country, they are supporting us.

Prabhupada: That is our profit.

Brahmananda: Recently there was a big conference of all the lawyers, and they were all indirectly supporting our position. They just wanted to advertise this big controversy. They say that this controversy is the most important issue of the 1970s. Just like in the 1960s, the Vietnam War was a big issue. So it's becoming very important.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna movement.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: So we have got very good certification by the psychiatrist of Calcutta University. You have seen it?

Brahmananda: Not yet.

Tamala Krsna: I don't think I've seen that yet.

Satsvarupa: Dhira Krsna got a statement from the Brain Research Institute and said the chanting of Hare Krsna is very good for the brain.

Hari-sauri: Brainwashing.

Prabhupada: You have got that?

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Actually it is brainwash, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12], but it is for the good. People are suffering with these dirty things within the brain. We are washing them. That is brainwash actually.

Satsvarupa: "Indian Brain Research Association, Department of Biochemistry, University of Calcutta. Gentlemen, The Hare Krsna kirtana mantra used in meditation, or chanting of Radha-Krsna, has been practiced not only by the Vaisnavas of India, but by most of the Hindus as a regular religious and social practice in Hindu families. Millions of Hindus practice with sublime devotion the Hare Krsna mantra. We are not aware of any case where such practice has resulted in any detrimental effect to the health or mind of anyone. We can submit that the worshiping of Radha-Krsna as being practiced in West Bengal, India, does not differ from that of the Hare Krsna mantra chanting of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. And as such, either of them cannot do any harm to the devotee or to the observer. Further, we can add that the rhythmic dance and musical svare in Hare Krsna kirtana mantra may have profound beneficial effect on a distorted human mind. These practices do not have any relation with brainwashing, although the word seems to carry no scientific meaning at all. Statement by Professor Ajit K. Mytee. Yours faithfully, J. J. Ghosh, President, on behalf of the Indian Brain Research Association."

Prabhupada: It is good certificate.

Tamala Krsna: Very good.

Prabhupada: And University of Calcutta. So you publish this.

Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada sent letters to Ramesvara and Adi-kesava to put it in the newspaper.

Tamala Krsna: Adi-kesa is here in India.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Tamala Krsna: He'll be coming here in about three days, he and Tripurari Maharaja.

Prabhupada: So who will come by the 747?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, there's still about three hundred devotees coming on that flight.

Prabhupada: Oh. It is already fixed?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: When they are coming?

Tamala Krsna: They're coming on the 24th, morning.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Tamala Krsna: There's three hundred devotees from America, England and South America. And then, of course, there's still Australia devotees and some devotees from Africa. There are more. So I think at least between three and four hundred devotees.

Prabhupada: And here we can accommodate.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: How many rooms?

Satsvarupa: 165 on one floor and 135 on another.

Tamala Krsna: Three hundrd rooms.

Prabhupada: Two persons very comfortably can live in one room.

Tamala Krsna: That's nice.

Prabhupada: So we have got about three hundred rooms. We can accommodate six hundred men.

Tamala Krsna: More than sufficient.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now arrange for big festival. There is a program, Manipur. I want to start in that small state varnasrama idea. That is my dream. Small state it can be done, brahmana, ksatri... So when you arrived in the airport?

Tamala Krsna: Well, we first... The airplane that we came on landed in Delhi, and we went down to Bombay yesterday morning. So we stayed the day in Bombay.

Prabhupada: You have seen the progress?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Going on all right?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, but I don't think it will be finished by... They say Dasera, but I have my doubts.

Prabhupada: Then what can be done?

Tamala Krsna: What is your opinion?

Brahmananda: Not the finishing work. There is so much marble finishing work.

Prabhupada: The marbles, they are working or not?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. They're working. I think there must be at least one hundred workers going full time.

Prabhupada: Marble.

Tamala Krsna: Marble and otherwise also-woodworking, so many things. But I mean it's a very big project, so I think certainly they'll be done by next March. They could open on October, but it won't be finished completely.

Prabhupada: No, why? We must finish to the point. Then we can...

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Otherwise we won't impress properly.

Brahmananda: They're making it very beautifully. So if it's done as it's completed...

Prabhupada: He has done wonderful. There is no such temple, at least in Bombay. No. And in India.

Tamala Krsna: When we took off in the jumbo..., or when we took off in the plane to Calcutta, we got a very clear vision of the whole temple complex. So if there's some sign put on the towers on the top, everyone from the plane will be able to read it: Hare Krsna Land. Very prominent from the airplane. It stands out from all the other buildings because it's so big and very beautiful. Very nice. It is all your mercy, that building, Prabhupada. If it was up to us...

Prabhupada: [laughs] My mercy or your mercy. You are all working. So anyway, this counterpropaganda is doing good to us.

Tamala Krsna: It's making... Everyone in America now knows the Hare Krsna movement. Very prominent in America.

Prabhupada: And New York temple is going nice?

Tamala Krsna: I think very nicely, yes.

Prabhupada: People are coming regular?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. We get on Sundays not less than six or seven hundred people come every Sunday. And...

Prabhupada: Indians and Americans.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. About, say, half and half.

Prabhupada: That's good.

Tamala Krsna: Good turn-out.

Prabhupada: That's good. Similarly Los Angeles, and other...

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: So by this counterpropaganda we have not lost anything.

Tamala Krsna: No. People were not so much aware of what our movement stood for. Now, with this propaganda, we're getting an opportunity to explain to them what our movement means.

Prabhupada: I wanted that all our books should be given to the court: "This is our statement. Let him read. He can..."

Brahmananda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...

Hari-sauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupada: Huh?

Hari-sauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty thousand per month. Rasa Bihari Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, My Lord, just to teach you law." [laughs] No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgment." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.

Prabhupada: "It is not brainwash. It is science. You have to know the science." And actually that is the fact. The court case is going on.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. The next... The next date for the trial is on March the 2nd, but it may be postponed until about March the 10th. So Adi-kesa Maharaja wanted to take the opportunity to come and visit.

Prabhupada: Very good. The more it is prolonged, it is good for us. Things will be discussed.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. We are relishing the opportunity.

Prabhupada: Yes. [laughs] And it will be published in the paper. It is a good opportunity.

Brahmananda: Even they had a preliminary hearing, and all the major newspaper, Time Magazine, Newsweek, they were all present. And also from the Indian government.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, the Consulate. The Indian Consulate came. Adi-kesa Maharaja has been contacting some of the important officials. He has had a lot of meetings with the Ambassador. So the Ambassador ordered that from the Consulate one person must come to give a statement that "The Indian government supports the Hare Krsna movement." So they came and made this statement.

Prabhupada: Oh, that is... [laughs]

Brahmananda: And this representative will attend every hearing.

Prabhupada: That is nice. That is very nice.

Brahmananda: As official... And he was ordered to do so by Indira.

Prabhupada: Yes, the Home Member. The Home Member said to... "We want that this movement should be spread all over the world."

Tamala Krsna: The government..., the representative said that "Our government is nonsectarian, but within our country so many people are Hindus, and this Hare Krsna movement is the religion of all these people. This is the actual religion of these people. It is authentic."

Prabhupada: Then? How they can...

Tamala Krsna: No, they... They have no case at all.

Prabhupada: [laughs] They want to speak brainwash, and here is the university psychiatrist, he says, "No, it is not brainwash." So handle very carefully.

Brahmananda: The judge that we have is very...

Prabhupada: Sober.

Brahmananda: Well, his reputation is that he is the toughest judge in the state. The DA deliberately arranged for this judge. So it will be a little difficult.

Prabhupada: So the toughest judge, does it means he will be unjust also?

Brahmananda: Well, he might be a little prejudiced against us.

Tamala Krsna: But it doesn't... It just means the case will go longer. Still they have no case.

Prabhupada: Then we can change.

Tamala Krsna: We tried, but it was not successful. We already made that motion to change the judge. It wasn't successful.

Prabhupada: No, the government says it is bona fide, India government?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Then how he can go against it?

Tamala Krsna: Actually they can't. I mean, they have absolutely no case, but still they're pushing onwards just to make some..., create some dirt.

Prabhupada: The thing is... Real thing is that... That was spoken by one politician, that "It is spreading like epidemic"?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: That danger they are fighting.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. The thing is... There're now some demons in America, they are realizing that this is the most dangerous movement to their whole culture.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the real point. And if the young men, they are taking and they take it seriously, then they will take over government. Yes. That is the real point. That they want to stop it. But we cannot be stopped. Because the younger generation, they are taking it seriously, it cannot be stopped.

Tamala Krsna: As long as we stay within the law, they cannot find any fault with us. They are trying like anything, but they cannot find any fault.

Prabhupada: Yes. The poison has already entered. [laughs]

Tamala Krsna: Through your books.

Prabhupada: Now it is reacting, so they are feeling the pressure. That is our success, when there is opposition. They are not going to oppose any such movement like Transcendental Meditation. No, they don't care. But this, they are seeing that it is very venomonous poison.

Tamala Krsna: They didn't realize your intentions when you first came in 1965.

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. No illicit sex, no meat-eating. I thought that nobody would take this. But it is Krsna's mercy you have taken it seriously. So just you have got your room?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, very nicely situated.

Satsvarupa: You'll be taking prasadam.

Tamala Krsna: I've brought some medicines for you from Bombay.

Prabhupada: Hmm. What is that medicine?

Tamala Krsna: I can bring them. I don't know.

Brahmananda: Were you expecting something?

Hari-sauri: We already got one big bag full.

Tamala Krsna: Oh. There's so many more things now.

Hari-sauri: Did Karttikeya give it to you?

Tamala Krsna: I don't know who... Giriraja gave them to me.

Prabhupada: So in Bombay everything is going...

Tamala Krsna: Yes. There was very strict program. You know Giriraja is such a good devotee.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: I mean he's... Everything is just like in America in Bombay. You know, the temple program is right on time, very nicely...

Prabhupada: That is wanted. If we keep our temple program nicely and we follow the rules and regu..., then we are triumphant. There is no doubt. That is our main strength.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. That is going on very strictly in Bombay.

Prabhupada: Everywhere this should be going. Then we are safe.

Tamala Krsna: Gopala Krsna had something wrong with his foot, had some foot...

Brahmananda: He had an operation. Small, minor.

Prabhupada: Boil? Something?

Brahmananda: We don't know what it is.

Tamala Krsna: Something like a boil. So he was sitting most of the time.

Prabhupada: Now I have advised the books in the schools, colleges, our Hindi, Bengali, English. We can put in every school. I was instructing...

Devotee: Mayapur town?

Prabhupada: Everywhere, all over the world. It will be a revolution from godlessness to understanding of God. That is wanted. Otherwise the whole human society is suffering. Harav abhaktasya kuto [SB 5.18.12]. This advancement of so-called education has no value. It is very risky. They do not know how the nature's law is working. Rascals. They are taking this short duration of life, maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43], making big, big plans, forgetting they're completely under the control of nature. A very risky civilization. A living being gets the opportunity to understand all the secrets of nature's path, but he's denied the opportunity. Very dangerous. He's thinking like animal-eating, sleeping, that's all. And big, big educationist, and in... Like Professor Kotovsky, he said, "Swamiji, after this body is finished, everything is..." Just see.

Tamala Krsna: No intelligence. [break]

Prabhupada: Anyone who has understood the value of Hare Krsna, he is saved. But we should not simply keep ourselves saved. We should think for others. That is para-upakara. And that you cannot do unless you are in the safe position. Janma sarthaka kari'. If you become polluted, then you cannot do. That is the secret. If you are not polluted, then you can do. Otherwise it will be show only, no effect. This is the secret. Janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara . So things are very easy, not at all difficult. If you follow, then you can do good to others.

Tamala Krsna: This process gives one the strength to carry it forward more and more.

Prabhupada: Apani acari' prabhu jivere sikhaya. [Cc Madhya 1.22] Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He did so. The whole human civilization is on a risky platform.

Tamala Krsna: I don't see how the present civilization can stand up against our devotees if we remain strong.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. It cannot. Prahlada Maharaja... Such a gigantic demon could not do anything. He was five-years-old boy, was sticking to Krsna consciousness. That's all. Only that strength, and he faced the dangerous position of a gigantic demon like Hiranyakasipu. Even the demigods were afraid. So remain like Prahlada Maharaja, pure. Nobody can do anything. Hare Krsna. So take rest and...

Tamala Krsna: Jaya. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [end]