Room Conversation – December 16, 1976, Hyderabad

I am very safe on the lap of my mother

Prabhupada: Don't take that I am simply paying agent. Is that all right, that I shall simply go on paying?

Mahamsa: No.

Prabhupada: You have got so many trustees, and you all trustees and managing trustee and this trustee, and for payment I am responsible. Even for purchasing your utensils. What is this? I did not say at that time, but I talked this morning to them that what is this? I shall pay everything, and you are all big, big trustees? So you give me in writing that including the four lakhs already paid. Already, I am a debtor, and plus this money, whatever I shall, you shall return me within three years. Where is that letter?

Jagadisa: I can get it typed.

Prabhupada: Get it typed. Let me see it.

Jagadisa: This is, ah…

Prabhupada: No, no, I can read. You can write letter. Bank of Rajasthan. What is it?

Mahamsa: Yes, this was fixed deposit which was in Madras, and since there is nobody in Madras now, Gopala Krsna wanted to transfer that amount to BBT in Bombay. So he told me to get it done. And both the signers, Bhavabhūti and Sravanananda, are not available. So if you dictate to the bank as founder-acarya of ISKCON, then they will send the money and I will direct it to BBT.

Jagadisa: This is the amount that Gopala Krsna was mentioning in his letter that we read last night that's supposed to go to the BBT.

Prabhupada: Manager, Bank of Rajasthan, Madras. [break] You cannot avoid it. If you actually want people to be happy, if you actually want world peaceful situation, you have to take Bhagavad-gita as it is. Otherwise all your attempts will be failure. Because even Mahatma Gandhi, such a great personality, he did not take Bhagavad-gita as it is; therefore he was also failure, what to speak of us.

Indian man: Then we are going to take…, few of us are going to take it very seriously.

Prabhupada: Kindly do that. You can do that. You have got influence, you have got intelligence, you have got the mind, you have got the appreciative power. Therefore, I am asking you amongst our… It will be… Take, for example, our Indian government is secular. So who can be greater secular than our…

[break] Actually, better become Muhammadan. Therefore, so many Muhammadans. Otherwise they are not imported.

Indian man: They are not imported. They are all our Hindus.

Prabhupada: Yes. [aside:] What is that?

Devotee (3): Asraddadhanaḥ purusaḥ [Bg 9.3]?

Prabhupada: Not that. In Sixteenth Chapter there is verse, that janmani janmani.

Devotee (3): Oh. Oh. [break]

Prabhupada: And the Congress procession was organized just in front of my shop. And they are coming, sitting, and then the procession began, the civil disobedience. In 19… 30.

Indian man: 1930.

Prabhupada: When the salt protest began.

Indian man: In 1938.

Prabhupada: No. Sometimes in 1930, '30 or '31, like that.

Indian man: 1931. When are you coming back?

Prabhupada: That I do not know, but there is…

Indian man: From there?

Prabhupada: I am going to Wardha. I may be going to Bombay or Bhubaneswar. That Bhubaneswar man came yesterday. I am thinking of constructing a temple there.

Indian man: When you go to Bhubaneswar? After you go to Delhi?

Prabhupada: Delhi, I have no immediate program.

Indian man: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: There is no fixed program now.

Indian man: I would like to help to Delhi. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Immediately I am engaged in so many things. If you like, you can talk only.

Indian man: How many go to Delhi [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: It is stated in this Bhagavad-gita that Krsna says, imam rajarsayo viduḥ-saintly kings understood. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ [Bg 4.2]. So this is not meant for the loafer class of men. Rajarsi. He must be head of the government, at the same time a saintly person. Then he can understand.

Indian man: vaisistya.

Prabhupada: vaisistya. Yes. I have given the Bhagavad-gita is only understood by parampara. So our rajarsi is… Practically there is no rajarsi. Raja-rsi. He is called rajarsi. It is not for loafer class of men. Then people will be benefited. If the head of the state understands that this is essential, then people will be… Yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg 3.21].

Etaro janaḥ. Those who are in the subordinate grade, they follow the leaders. So the leaders have given up this science. So how the subordinate class, they will understand? They must understand the spirit of Bhagavad-gita, how it is essential, how people will be happy by following the instruction. Unless rajarsi understands, how the people? So actually if she wants blessing, the blessing is already there: Bhagavad-gita. And if she gives some time, we can make her convinced that this is essential. Without this, there is no question of peace and prosperity. There is no question. I think that these contents are essential. All these contents are explained with reference to Bhagavad-gita, no other.

Indian man: Arjuna is the real [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. So vijnana, the knowledge is given by Krsna. And how Arjuna has taken it? If we compare these two things and take it, then it is real success. And if we imagine which is not confirmed by Arjuna or Krsna, then that is concoction; it will never help you. That is going on. Everyone is imagining some way of thinking, and that will not help.

Indian man: She needs your blessings.

Prabhupada: Ah?

Indian man: She needs your blessings. Mrs. Gandhi needs your blessings in her life[?]. A person like you should bless her; she needs...

Prabhupada: Personally I welcome this Emergency. I welcome. This autocracy we welcome. But the autocrat must be rajarsi. Then we can have full faith. If this… Just like this child. The child sleeps very calmly on the lap of the mother because the child knows that "I am very safe on the lap of my mother." Is it not? The same child in another's lap, he will cry, because he thinks that "I am not safe." Similarly, this autocracy, or this Emergency, whatever you call, one man's, what is that, is good provided people think, "Now we are safe." Otherwise it is very serious[?].

Indian man: People have a feeling that they are safe.

Prabhupada: No. I say the people have faith. But to create that faith, one must be very ideal.

Indian man: One thing about her, what she is doing is really wonderful but there is lots of corruption. What she can do alone? Discipline has come.

Prabhupada: No, this can be done provided she understands Bhagavad-gita and introduces the method. Then there will be no more.

Indian man: That is why I think a meeting, both of you, and you bless her and advise her [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Blessing is already there, Bhagavad-gita-authorized. Even big, big politicians before her... I think Jawaharlal Nehru also commented, Discovery of India, Bhagavad-gita. And Gandhi accepted, Tilak[?] accepted. They have written something; therefore they accepted. So why not accept it seriously? Why she is not serious? That is my point. If you accept Bhagavad-gita is authority, why not take it seriously? And so far these untouchables, Bhagavad-gita never says untouchables. Bhagavad-gita says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ papa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32].

Papa-yonis are untouchable. Te 'pi yanti param gatim. So why not... There is no question of untouchable. "Anyone who comes to Me, actually, seriously," te 'pi yanti param gatim. Param gatim, highest perfection of life, if one goes, then where is papa-yoni? Not only that, in the Bhagavat, Sukadeva Gosvami says the canḍalas, kirata-hūnandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha, and then, sudhyanti, they can be purified by Krsna consciousness. So in the sastra there is sanction. Narada Muni says in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that yasya yal laksanam proktam pumso varnabhivyanjakam [SB 7.11.35].

To designate a person to which varna he belongs, there is symptom. Guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ [Bg 4.13]. Not that birth. Never says. That these symptoms, Narada Muni says, if they are found, anyatra. Suppose the symptoms of a brahmana is found in a canḍala. That canḍala is no more canḍala. Tat tenaiva vinirdiset. Because he has acquired the qualification of a brahmana, he should not be called any more canḍala; he should be called brahmana. Similarly, a brahmana, although he is born of a high family, but because he has associated with the qualities of a canḍala, he should be called canḍala. This is sastric injunction. Sastra never says by birth, stated like that. And that is practically being accepted. One man's qualification is concerned, not that in which family he is born. There are many instances-Satyakama-Javala

Indian man: Just [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, I am doing practically.

Indian man: [indistinct] you should come into the place. People should read about. Like Christians do that. Because this will go a long way, go a long way, that one person has spoke the truth, as it is, as you say-not manufactured. One person, one svami, Prabhupada, spoke the truth. What he explains how I should act that this is qualification of the person. Brahmana could be a canḍala, canḍala could be a brahmana. That is why this practicing untouchability is a sin, a crime. Don't make…

Prabhupada: There is one verse in which it is said, karmana vaisyatam gataḥ [SB 9.2.23]: by his work he became a vaisya. Definitely it is said. Like Visvamitra. He was ksatriya, he became brahmana. Maharaja Rsabhadeva, He had one hundred sons, ksatriyas. His eighty-one sons, they became ksatriyas, and all others, they became brahmanas. Navayogendra. There are many instances. And they were the king also. There is injuction to the brahmana that in time of difficulty, the brahmanas, you can accept the position of a ksatriya, you can accept the position of a vaisya, but never accept the position of a sūdra. These are the injunctions.

Indian man: Why never accept the position of a sūdra? Why?

Prabhupada: Because that is most abominable.

Indian man: I see.

Prabhupada: It has been described, sūdra's position is just like dog. So you don't degrade to such position. Now if we study from that point of view Kali-yuga, everyone sūdra. Because sūdra… Yesterday some gentleman came, he is a physist-what is that?

Jagadisa: Physicist.

Prabhupada: So I said that "You are a qualified person, but if you don't get a salary, then you cannot live." That is the position of sūdra. Brahmana, they live independently. Ksatriya, they live independently. Vaisya, they live independently. A sūdra cannot live independently. That is dog's position. A dog, if he does not get a good master, it is street dog. Therefore it is forbidden: don't become a dog from brahmana.

Indian man: [indistinct] vaisya, brahmana [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Therefore I say they are sūdra or less than sūdra. Kalau sūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kali-yuga.

Indian man: [Transl. This one man drinks wine and eats beef.] He is Marwari. [Transl. At home they are strict. They don't touch. We don't eat. They eat in front of us.]

Prabhupada: I have seen on the aeroplane one Marwari-no, I shall not say gentleman-[laughter] he was eating intestine of the hog. What is this called?

Jagadisa: Sausage.

Prabhupada: Sausage. And I have heard that when this preparation is made, it emanates so bad odor because it is full of stool-they have to get out stool-and then boil it. Is that palatable?

Indian man: [Transl. There was a collegue of mine, his name is Harish Chandra Hera. Marwari from… Harish Chandra Hera. Long time from 1970. Or 67. He was a friend of Firoze Gandhi-Mrs Gandhi's husband. One day when I was in America in 1962. …via San Francisco, Chicago etc. So I asked my American friend, take us to a vegetarian reataurant…Vegetarian food is very difficult to get. I took Mr. Harish Chandra Hera. Mr. Harish Chandra Hera was a Marwari brahmana. I said "What would you like to have?" He said "What would you like to have?" I said "Look, I eat fish. I don't want anything except fish. We don't take any beef etc." He said "You don't take any non vegetarian in America? It is the most delicious." He ordered oxtail soup and other items all made from beef. I don't know their names even. Jawaharlal Nehru came one time. I invited him. [indistinct] And what this man did? He took beefsteak and whiskey! Wine is softer than whiskey. So Like that everyone has become low class. They have taught the society to eat and drink. I have understood the society. Society is educated. They are so bad people but they talk nicely. I need a bead and your blessings. When will you kindly give me?]-beefsteak and oxtail soup, whiskey]

Prabhupada: We have got four rules and regulations.

Indian man: [indistinct]

Jagadisa: We don't eat any meat, fish or eggs, no intoxication, no illicit sex life, no gambling.

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is not good to do like that. The Supreme Lord…]

[indistinct conversation in Hindi and English between Prabhupada and Indian man]

Indian man: [Transl. May be, may not be but I will always seek your blessing.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My blessings are always open to all.] I want to see that you become a Vaisnava, perfect, ideal. And your family members are very nice; they can also follow. You have fine daughters, I have seen, very nice. And you are worshiping Balaji. It is a great fortune.

Indian man: [Transl. I worship every day.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This will benefit you.] Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. [Transl. If you simply offer your obeisances to Balaji once a day you will be benefitted. Even if you cannot do anything else. The Supreme Lord Himself is saying that man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru. That's all. Just follow this and gradually everything will be all right.] I was very glad to see Balaji in your house. [Transl. You are fortunate.]

Indian man: [Transl. The children are also devoted.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I have seen. Slowly everything will be good. Take some Prasada.] So bring here.

[aside:] I do not know who has taken them.

Jagadisa: I'll ask Hari-sauri. Hari-sauri.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Krsna consciousness movement is being worldwide accepted.] Why not India? [Transl. There is no other alternative. By not following there will be no success.] What is that verse?

Jagadisa: Janmani janmani?

Prabhupada: Yes.

"Taking repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence." [end]