Room Conversation – December 15, 1970, Indore

701215R1-INDORE [29:06 Minutes]

We were born in a demonic family, and naturally inclined for material enjoyment

Prabhupada: So Mr. Agarwal, he shall stay with us, 'til night?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: He will remain here?

Mr. Agarwal: I will go home and come back.

Prabhupada: Come back?

Mr. Agarwal: Yes.

Prabhupada: Then I have some important talks with you.

Mr. Agarwal: I see. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. And the first thing is that we have been promised Life Membership by about fourteen, fifteen men. Out of that, we have collected about less than half.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] Yesterday I phoned...

Prabhupada: Ah.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: What is the name of your brother-in-law? That grain merchant.

Indian lady: [indistinct reply] [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: So has he paid something?

Mr. Agarwal: No, he is out of station.

Prabhupada: Oh, he promised.

Mr. Agarwal: He said... No, no, I have talked with him at present. He said, "I don't want to become a member [indistinct]."

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hamsadūta: He says he doesn't want to become a member but he will [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Just see.

Indian man: [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: So let him make some member [indistinct] like that.

Indian man: Yes, [indistinct]. [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: So one thing, now there are so many promises. So is it possible to collect from them?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: No, no. [indistinct conversation with Indian men]

Prabhupada: Hmm. So now the question is that do you think that to collect all this promised money, you will, be able?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] and phoned to make an appointment. Now this, eh [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say whether they are hopeless.

Mr. Agarwal: I see.

Prabhupada: Then...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] and then we were not informed [indistinct]. What else can you do those to you who have promised Life Membership of this [indistinct] become either a subscriber member or a donor member, if not Life Member [indistinct]. Something has to be sorted [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So for this purpose is it necessary that he should remain? Or...?

Mr. Agarwal: Remain.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right.

Mr. Agarwal: I have contacted [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Oh, then give him the addresses.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: Yes, they... They can...

Mr. Agarwal: They can pay something to you directly.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] I'd like to make this person [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm. So for the time being give him our Bombay address.

Mr. Agarwal: Bombay [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. That will do. Now this morning I wanted to see that land, and I want to take you there. So in my absence...

[aside:] You can do it.

Another thing that, ah, Sarmistha, Queen Sarmistha, Halkar, so she also promised some help, but there is no... We can contact her? By phone?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Now the... Is it possible to see her today?

Mr. Agarwal: We can try.

Prabhupada: So why not try for that? If both of them, both the husband and wife promised that "I shall consider." I requested them to purchase a house for us. That... What is that?

Mr. Agarwal: Samarji.

Prabhupada: Samarji. Of course, I don't think that..

Mr. Agarwal: Samarji [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Not here.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So whatever he gives, we can accept. Something is better than...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes, we saw them. There was kirtana.

Mr. Agarwal: Two nights ago [indistinct] I phoned...

Prabhupada: Ah.

Mr. Agarwal: ...to take an appointment to see [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Today?

Mr. Agarwal: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes, why not?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] appointment [indistinct] phoned [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm... But do they...

Mr. Agarwal: And it would mean that this man [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Marwari, yes. So he's not coming?

Mr. Agarwal: I told him. I have seen his place.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Mr. Agarwal: I have known him. He was [indistinct] last year.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: So he's not [indistinct].

Prabhupada: But he's not personally presenting.

Mr. Agarwal: He's not, yes. [laughs] He's a monies man [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Monies man, oh.

Mr. Agarwal: He wants to develop abroad [indistinct] and central India [indistinct] district [indistinct] and to make some money.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is... That was his purpose.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] from here. I'm going [indistinct] that is the purpose and [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Accha. [Hindi]

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] some one thousand people [indistinct] at his temple [indistinct] then he will call my name to come [indistinct] we can come [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Ah.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] so he became more and more materialistic and [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm. If people go there for some material benefits... Nobody goes...

Mr. Agarwal: Nobody goes for God.

Prabhupada: You see?

Mr. Agarwal: The president also [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That's all. Therefore people...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Therefore people are becoming atheist. Suppose you go somewhere for some material benefit, and if you do not get it, naturally you become faithless, "Ah, what is this nonsense?" Therefore bhakti is anyabhilasita-sūnyam [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11]. One should approach God without any material desires, anyabhilasita-sūnyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam. Simply one has to approach God, anukūlyena krsnanu-silanam: [indistinct], without any cause. That is bhakti. This is not bhakti; this is business.

Mr. Agarwal: Yes [indistinct].

Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. When Prahlada Maharaja was offered benediction, so he said these very words, that "Am I a mercantile man, vaniya, banik, that I have to ask from You something by giving You service? So don't allure me Sir, in this way."

This is suddha-bhakta. Yes. "We were born in a demonic family, and naturally inclined for material enjoyment, and Your Lordship can give me anything, I know, if I ask. So naturally I will be allured to ask from You..."

Mr. Agarwal: I was [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Mr. Agarwal: Suppose I am going to Indore...

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: Or [indistinct] I asked him to give me that confidential member...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. You should not ask anything.

Mr. Agarwal: No?

Prabhupada: No.

Mr. Agarwal: This is also bhajan[?].

Prabhupada: Yes. Why should you desire [indistinct]. Eh? yad bhavyam tad bhavatu [Mukunda-mala-stotra 5]: "Whatever it has to be happen, let it happen."

Mr. Agarwal: Ramayana says [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Ramayana, means that it is Tulsi dasa's Ramayana.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] bhakti [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, bhakti is not demand. That is to put oneself in his natural position. That is not demand.

Mr. Agarwal: Oh.

Prabhupada: Oh, that is... Because...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: ...our constitutional position...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] my life [indistinct] desires, how can I get without [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: So whatever our [indistinct], suppose I get [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: That is dharma-artha-kama-moksa [SB 4.8.41]. That is catur-varga. But bhakti is above that.

Mr. Agarwal: Ah, bhakti is..

Prabhupada: Above that. A bhakta does not even desire for moksa.

Mr. Agarwal: Ah, he doesn't desire.

Prabhupada: No. He does not desire, desire even...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. That is real bhakti.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Bas, that is it. Mama janmani janmanisvare [Siksastaka 4]. I was explaining this verse...

Mr. Agarwal: Yesterday.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is bhakti.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is not demand; that is your natural position. You are eternal servant of God. Now, somehow or other, under the influence of this material existence, you are thinking otherwise. Somebody is thinking that "I am master of the [indistinct]," somebody is thinking master of community, master of... They are thinking the..., in terms of becoming master.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm. That is our material life. Krsna bhūliya jiva bhoga-vancha kare [Prema-vivarta]. Master means enjoy. That is material life. So he has to work off that mentality. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66].

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. That is bhakti. So long we think of becoming master, that is materialist. If one thinks, "Oh, I have become spiritual master and have so many disciples, they are my servants," and that is also material. Therefore according to our Vaisnava, the address is prabhu. Even a spiritual master addresses the disciple as prabhu. This very mentality to become master is material. Because he is servant.

Mr. Agarwal: Dasa [indistinct].

Prabhupada: He is eternally servant. In the mistaken idea of becoming master he is serving maya. Just like you are master of your family, but actually you are serving. But you are thinking, "I am master of this family." And to be... By becoming a false master, your whole life you have to serve your wife, your children, your grandson, your family, your brother...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [laughs] Actually he is serving, but he is thinking...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] moham [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Janasya moho 'yam it is called. In the Bhagavata it is said, grha..., ato grha-ksetra-sutapta-vittair janasya moho 'yam [SB 5.5.8]. It is moho. That is illusion.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] Suppose if someone wants to have your darsana [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm. Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm. No, if some arrangement is made here, then I shall open a branch here, and I shall train up your...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm. So I have... I have asked them to give me a plot and a temple, and other buildings I shall collect money and do. That I have proposed.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm. So in case they do that, then I give you two or three assistants and you help. Hmm?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And this pure Krsna consciousness we shall develop. And another gentleman was proposing that "Instead of opening another center, why don't you do your activities in the Gita Bhavan?" That is not possible. It is hodgepodge.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Mr. Agarwal: Some propaganda from this platform.

Prabhupada: From which platform?

Mr. Agarwal: From Gita Bhavan.

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: [someone enters] Aiye. [Hindi] I was just thinking of you.

Indian man (2): [indistinct] the doctor [indistinct] it is not possible [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Ah. Oh.

Indian man (2): [indistinct] So I have come, because it is not possible you and Dr. Gupta would see this today [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Indian man (2): He will come some other [indistinct].

Prabhupada: What he will do at this stage? He will not forbid[?].

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm. That's all right.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Don't be puzzled, because death..., everyone will die today or tomorrow. Try to enlighten her with Krsna consciousness. That's all.

Indian man (2): I will [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Let her chant Hare Krsna. It doesn't matter whether she dies or not. Let her chant so long she lives. That is nice. So most... We are arranging to go to Surat.

Indian man (2): Surat.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So what about this Sarmistha? Halkar?

Indian man (2): Sarmistha Halkar I can get [indistinct] because we were always [indistinct]. But if you want a bigger amount, then you will have to meet [indistinct] wait and see. Three times she sent me [indistinct] fourth [indistinct] at two o'clock [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So why don't you send...

Indian man (2): [indistinct] 1,000, 5,000 rupees [indistinct], then take money from him. [indistinct] So [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So how to contact her?

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. Both of them promised that "We shall consider."

Indian man (2): Ah? [indistinct reply] [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: [laughs] So what shall I do now? Shall I try to contact?

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] We shall phone her [indistinct] and we shall arrange it. [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: [aside:] Aiye. But... So because they promised that "We shall contribute," we shall simply ask..

Indian man (2): No, no. We told him that [indistinct] two o'clock...

Prabhupada: [aside:] Aiye.

Indian man (2): [indistinct] I told him that [indistinct] I said, "How can I say something about it?" Because [indistinct] get some money [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So then best thing is to why not call Mr. Karmita, Mr. Karmita call and ask, remind him what...

Indian man (2): Ah, [indistinct] if I have to leave I have to go [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Then I think these girls can call, because...

Indian man (2): [indistinct] Karmita [indistinct].

Prabhupada: All right. That's all right.

Indian man (2): And what about our [indistinct] mataji?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (2): The other mataji [indistinct] twelve o'clock this morning [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes, the idea is [indistinct]

Indian man (2): Eh?

Prabhupada: ...that Mathura. Muk..., muk..., Mukan. We are going... You mean to say about that house?

Indian man (2): Ah.

Prabhupada: Ah, he is asking fancy price.

Indian man (2): Ah. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is a...

Indian man (2): [indistinct] I told him [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So that is hopeless.

Indian man (2): Ah.

Prabhupada: Best thing is to remain stopped, as he told me.

Indian man (2): Ah. That is right, because [indistinct].

Prabhupada: And he has no customer.

Indian man (2): No, no. Customer is impossible to find. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So then we stop for the time.

Indian man (2): [indistinct] customer [indistinct] government [indistinct] because the government [indistinct]. So now [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter. You attempt; you ask, induce her to chant Hare Krsna.

Indian man (2): Ah.

Prabhupada: Take this flower, give her. So if you are very anxious, you can go.

Indian man (2): And if you [indistinct] you will send a message to [indistinct].

Prabhupada: All right.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Oh, thank you. That's all right.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: All right.

Indian man (2): Ah. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: It is very good that she knows you very well.

Indian man (2): [indistinct] she knows that I was to go, six months back. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. All right. Jaya. Hare Krsna.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Take your dhoti in [laughs]. It is very kind of you, you have come.

Indian man (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So now we have got permission to contact them. That's all.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] desire is for [indistinct] some big agenda [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes I saw, it is very...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And he's very much impressed with our activities. Hmm.

Mr. Agarwal: You can make an appointment and then come there. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] temple [indistinct].

Prabhupada: It is authorized and pure. That is shall try to understand, that this is not a bogus movement.

Mr. Agarwal: No, no.

Prabhupada: Yes. It is authorized and pure.

Mr. Agarwal: I have become a member [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes, [laughs] but I cannot. It is very kind of you. There is no other motive. It is pure bhakti, anyabhilasita-sūnyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc Madhya 19.167].

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct conversation in the background]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Accha.

Mr. Agarwal: Yesterday... Because our this yesterday program was to take [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Accha.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No... [break] that you construct the room, that is desire for you so long you live. And after your death, it becomes to this ashram.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] within one year [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] One Mr. Vikram Singh. He has house in the city, he has at least forty, fifty cows.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] a man. He, has got cars and everything is there.

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: He has faithful sons. It was a sport for the boys.

Mr. Agarwal: Eh?

Prabhupada: Yes, the little boys, they go with the calves, in a different way. And the elderly boys, they take the cows. And...

Mr. Agarwal: [indistinct] [break] [Hindi] [end]