Room Conversation about New York Court Case – November 2, 1976, Vṛndāvana

If we work sincerely then we'll come out successful

Gopala Krsna: So a lot of these parents are saying that we should all be..., we should be investigated. Now they are saying that we are not Hindus, and they are saying that by chanting Hare Krsna, the thinking of the brain stops.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Gopala Krsna: So in New York the press is against us. But in Los Angeles it is going in our favor, he said [referring to report by Ramesvara]. In Los Angeles they had kidnapped the best girl distributor. Now she has come back, but, ah...

Prabhupada: So these things will happen.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: They are, as soon as we become very important, our enemies, they will try to suppress us.

Gopala Krsna: This is what they are doing.

Prabhupada: So that is natural. Even Krsna was suppressed. Krsna could not be suppressed, but the attempt was there, Kamsa. So these things go on, still we have to work.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: If we work sincerely then we'll come out successful.

Gopala Krsna: So there are a few things...

Prabhupada: We should not be afraid. Yuddhyasva mam anusmara [Bg 8.7]. Krsna advised Arjuna that "You fight," not that we shall not fight. We shall fight to the best capacity. And this is good, they are feeling the pressure of this movement. Otherwise, why they are going to take step?

Gopala Krsna: But they, what they do... These parents, what they want to do, they want this to be declared illegal. Now they...

Prabhupada: Illegal... They can, the children can also, those who are our children they can form an association.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: But they cannot control us, our independence.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: They should form. How the...?

Gopala Krsna: But of course, we want to defeat them...

Prabhupada: The parents, the parents cannot control their sons and daughters who is above eighteen.

Gopala Krsna: We want to defeat these people legally, because now it's a very big case and every paper in America is covering it. Every paper.

Prabhupada: That means they're feeling pressure. They're feeling pressure. Now we should take proper steps, that's all.

Gopala Krsna: They had a big press conference in which Professor Shukla spoke up...

Prabhupada: Hmm. He has spoken very nicely.

Gopala Krsna: Ramesvara said that he got up and he said, "How can... You are insulting our religion, saying we are not..."

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, better that the Indians should combine and they should bring a case against these people.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: And then it will be all right. That "This is, Krsna consciousness movement, is genuine, and these people are trying to insult us." Bring a defamation case against these persons.

Gopala Krsna: I think the best thing is to mobilize all the Indians in America, because every country...

Prabhupada: Yes, that I have already suggested, that they should take signature from all Indians that "this is genuine Indian cultural movement, and it a great fortune for Indians. They were bereft of their own culture and now we have got this culture again. The Ratha-yatra is going on, we are so much enlivened." In this way they should file petition.

Gopala Krsna: Just like in England they would not let you do the Ratha-yatra, the Indians...

Prabhupada: Ah. This is discrimination against sect...

Gopala Krsna: Against minority.

Prabhupada: Yes. Against minority.

Gopala Krsna: And no government in the world wants to do that.

Prabhupada: It is against American constitution. So they should file immediately a case.

Gopala Krsna: And America is very sensitive to...

Prabhupada: So you note down. You are simply hearing. Note down and inform them. Yes. Ah, it is being recorded, that's all right. So give them this direction. Combine the Indian community. In Toronto and in..., there are many thousands of Indians, New York, Canada, London. These are very important places.

Gopala Krsna: Yes, we can do that.

Prabhupada: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that "This Krsna is our God. In every Indian home we observe Krsna Janmastami." Even though one does not follow Krsna cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmastami. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Krsna cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gita, which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion..., any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. Or little more than that. But this Krsna cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the Introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years-beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough..., yes, and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize. Give them hint, this.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know about God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not know how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. We simply challenge, like that. When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now, and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat"? The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage-girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate... So many things. They should be exposed.

And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistri, just like so many mistris, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him? I could not construct this temple. I have to call some low class, Abdulla and company, they constructed. Does it meant he is higher in intelligence than me? They are giving credit, "Oh, now they have constructed skyscraper building. They have constructed motorcar, horseless carriage." They are taking credit on this. But this is not civilization. Canakya Panḍita has given the formula of civilization, three words: matrvat para-daresu. Where is that civilization, to consider every woman as mother? Except one's own married wife, all women, mother. Where is that civilization? That should be; otherwise there cannot be social regulation. Matrvat para-dravyesu para-dravyesu lostravat: others' property is just like garbage in the street. Nobody touches the garbage. That is civilization. So Mr. Pillai... [break]

Gopala Krsna: ...got to do. He wants members of parliament to give...

Prabhupada: Hmm. That we have already suggested. Immediately. Not only member of... If Mr....

Gopala Krsna: Krishna Modi.

Prabhupada: ...Brahmananda...

Gopala Krsna: Reddy.

Prabhupada: ...he suggested that this movement should be spread all over the world. Let him write.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. He won't give it in writing.

Prabhupada: No. That is his insincerity.

Gopala Krsna: Frankly, Srila Prabhupada, no member of parliament will give it either. I know it, because even when Tejiyas was applying for his citizenship, Krishna Modi would not even give a letter of recommendation because he said this is a Congress Party policy.

Prabhupada: Then what can be done? Everything is nasty.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. So this is what we'll do. We'll be starting a...

Prabhupada: You can give the names. There are so many members.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. We are starting a petition here also.

Prabhupada: Not only petition. You can give the... Ask what is this [indistinct] this Krsna consciousness.

Gopala Krsna: And also...

Prabhupada: If there is... Now Brahmananda has at least given this order that they should be given two..., that they be allowed to stay two years. That letter is there.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. I have that letter. That letter says they have come to study Vedic literature.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gopala Krsna: That letter is there. Also we have a lot of other letters from great...

Prabhupada: The Indians should send a petition to the government, that "We want this movement here. We are separated from our culture. A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought this..."

Gopala Krsna: They say mobilizing the Indians in America...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gopala Krsna: ...and that's most important thing because...

Prabhupada: Yes. That is a most important thing, that you cannot discriminate minority communities. That is against American constitution.

Hamsadūta: Prabhupada, when this..., when we had a similar situation in Germany, what we wanted to do is have all our centers in important cities in foreign countries all over the world make a letter and a delegation to visit the United States Embassy in all these places. This will have an effect, because if it's brought, if it comes in this way, international reaction...

Prabhupada: Yes, arrange like this.

Gopala Krsna: We're going to send... Ramesvara suggested we send a big petition of telegrams to the American Consulate. Because then American Consulate will transmit these telegrams to the State Department in Washington. We said that if our... We would pay for it, but our Life Members will all sign if we send a telegram to the American...

Prabhupada: Hmm, Dr. Shaligram taken a leading part?

Gopala Krsna: Who?

Hari-sauri: Dr. Shaligram Shukla.

Prabhupada: Shaligram Shukla.

Gopala Krsna: In America? Yes.

Prabhupada: He is a learned scholar, and he is influential man in educational circles. There are many Indians you'll find, they are...

Gopala Krsna: So we can mobilize all the Indians. That's the best process.

Prabhupada: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion to. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar, if the member of parliament know. Respectable Indian businessmen, they should say that "This Krsna cult is very, very old, genuine, and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud," like that.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. We want to do that.

Prabhupada: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvamis here, influential, that "This is genuine." Prove there, that it is genuine movement.

Gopala Krsna: And we have letters from Swami Cinmayananda and all these and all these letters from Bombay. I'm shipping all these to Ramesvara.

Prabhupada: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously, and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.

Gopala Krsna: Actually, I have... One boy in Delhi went to the British Embassy High Commission and bought a British paper, and even in the British paper the American court case was covered. Headline was "Hare Krsna..." I have the paper. Even in the British paper it had a prominent display. Normally you would expect...

Hamsadūta: Probably be in German papers too...

Gopala Krsna: Yes. In fact you would probably expect that...

Prabhupada: British paper. What does it say?

Gopala Krsna: They were covering this court case. They had a nice prominent...

Prabhupada: No, no. They have taken it. Now, they are after intelligent person. They are... That has been expressed by this gentleman, that "It is going like epidemic." They must expect. That is their feeling, that "Krsna consciousness movement is spreading so fast, like epidemic, we must take some step." That is already, they have expressed their feeling. And you said that in Australia, there one man said...

Hari-sauri: Yes, psychiatrist.

Prabhupada: ...that if the people take to this movement, then where you stand? He has also expressed. What is that?

Hari-sauri: There's a psychiatrist, after the Sydney City Council are trying to have us banned from the city altogether, and they took us to court, and we didn't contest the case and they lost. And then afterwards they..., it worked out they spent $10,000 and so much manpower to try to get rid of us, and it didn't work. And then one newspaper man went to a psychiatrist and he asked him, "Can you explain why this huge reaction against just a few people singing and dancing in the street?" So he said basically it's because the city-dwellers feel very threatened by our simple lifestyle.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just see. So this whole Western civilization is threatened.

Gopala Krsna: They are afraid of the Krsna conscious movement.

Prabhupada: Yes. Their whole economic structure will fail. Theoretically, take it for granted that if people give up meat-eating...

Gopala Krsna: No smoking, no drinking.

Prabhupada: ...then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said... Not only that, one Sir Valentine Chirol, I think, Sir Valentine Chirol, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement, is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation. So Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked in that time that if one percent Indian people non-cooperate, then we are..., our British Empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that "This movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished."

Gopala Krsna: What they're doing now, these parents are getting..., contacting devotees who have blooped, and they're getting these devotees to make statements against us.

Prabhupada: Just see. They are living peacefully in a village in Paris so happily that, ah... Some..., one French gentleman came to see me, "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating. This cannot be done in this country; then we will starve." I said, "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." [laughs] So they are thinking like that.

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: And the most dangerous point is that young men are taking part.

Gopala Krsna: The future of the country.

Prabhupada: Yes. That means it will continue. Young men, they take anything very seriously. So this movement is threatening the-what is called?-foundation of material civilization in the Western countries. That's a fact. The foundation is threatened. Their whole foundation is this: meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication. They have no other formula. Lord Zetland, when he was asking one of my Godbrothers that "Can you make me brahmana?" So "Yes, why not? You follow." He said, "It is impossible for us. It is impossible for us. Then we are nowhere." That's a fact. If some percentage of the population, European and American population, take it seriously, then it will be dangerous for their government, their economic situation, that's a fact. That, our Sudama Vipra is showing that, theatrical...

Gopala Krsna: Sudama Swami is in New York.

Hari-sauri: Sudama Maharaja.

Prabhupada: Hah! And whole situation is threatened, Caitanya Mahaprabhu movement. Have you seen that?

Hari-sauri: That play.

Prabhupada: Play?

Hari-sauri: Kali. Age of Kali.

Prabhupada: Yes. The purport of the play is that this Hare Krsna movement is threatening to all the associates of papa. [break]

Gopala Krsna: He, Ramesvara told me last night, is completely against these so-called religious movements like our, and he has written personal letters to the parents of all the people who have joined, all those who would write to him, that these types of movements should be stopped.

Prabhupada: The young men should form another party, all the American young men.

Hamsadūta: Visnu party.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Visnu party. Yes. Now they should take in politics.

Hamsadūta: You wrote in your Eighth Canto, there are always two parties: the Visnu party and the demons' party.

Prabhupada: Yes. If they're forming demons' party, let them...

Hamsadūta: Form a Visnu party.

Prabhupada: That, ah, the fight between the Visnu party and the demon party is always going on.

Gopala Krsna: Well they could never stop it, I mean. They could just make some difficulty, that's all.

Prabhupada: No. It is in the hands of the young men. It is not possible for them to stop it. If it had been a sentiment of some retired, just like other thing, that Vivekananda's, all these old fools and rascals, they assemble and meditate. It is not that. They are active. It is not so-called meditation, and snoring, [makes snoring sound] meditating. It is not that. I have seen, all these rascals go, yogis, they prescribe meditation, and meditation means sleeping and snoring, that's all. It is not that movement. We are sending, enthusing, "Go, sell books." It is no question of meditation. Cheating himself and cheating others. What he will meditate? And he requires so many primary rules and regulations before meditating, not that... In the Bhagavad-gita, for meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes. As soon as you close the eyes and meditate, you will sleep. Immediately. It is... They should be half closed, and concentrate your eyesight on the top of the nose. That is meditation. Not that closing and snoring and "huh." Anyway, these rascals, they are going on. Who cares for the genuine thing? Nobody cares.

Dharma-dhvaji, that "I am your guru, I have followers," dharma principle, but he does not know anything. This is going on. Neither the rascal guru knows, neither his disciple knows. This is the position. Everywhere this is going on. All bluff. This very word used, a dharma-dhvaji. Get a flag, that "I am religious." That's all. And hang it, that's all, and do nothing, that's all. "I do not know nothing, but I have the flag," that's all. All these gurus, all these celas are doing that. This Anandamayi, Sai Baba, this, that, so many. What do they know?

Gopala Krsna: That is why these leaders are getting confused, so many bogus people are there.

Prabhupada: Yes. That should..., action should be taken. If we come out successful in this, how you say, messing, and that will be very good. It is called that, messing?

Hari-sauri: Mixing.

Hamsadūta: Mixing.

Prabhupada: Not mixing.

Hari-sauri: Punching[?] together.

Prabhupada: Messing, that what is called? Calūni? What is called?

Devotee: Sifting?

Prabhupada: Sifting, yes. [coughing] It is called not messing also? Hmm. Sifting high grains from the small.

Devotees: Yes. Hmm. Hmm.

Prabhupada: The smaller grains, they fall down.

Hamsadūta: Oh, straining.

Prabhupada: Straining, yes. Straining, yes, straining. If the straining process, no, that's nice.

Gopala Krsna: Yes, they can get rid of all the bad ones just like in the rice field. The good ones [indistinct]. Every newspaper in America is covering us, Ramesvara said.

Prabhupada: Good advertisement. I was seeing that. And every page Krsna, there is Krsna. Every page there is Krsna. Similarly, that happened in Germany. I told them, "It is very good that Hare Krsna." Begin with Hare Krsna. [laughing] We are known as Krsnas. They call us Krsnas. You put yourselves "Krsnians." They are Christians and we are Krsnians. And actually from Krsnian, the "Christian" has come. Yes. Krsna, ah, Christo, there is a word, Greek word, and Christo is broken spelling of Krsna. In India we say one is..., one name say is Krsna, at least in Bengali we say Krsta. Krsta. This Krsta word is from Krsna. And from Krsta, Christ has come. This is original root, Krsna. So we have to fight. Here is a chance for fighting, so why they're afraid?

Gopala Krsna: No, we just have to work hard on getting everything coordinated.

Prabhupada: You have to fight, keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mam anusmara [Bg 8.7]. We should not be afraid to fight. And it is..., there are Indians... It is not the Indians cooperating. Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Krsna. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement? Other so-called yogis, svamis, they may be rascal, but this is not the rascaldom. It is...

Gopala Krsna: They are saying... They are saying we are not Hindus.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Gopala Krsna: They are saying this is not Hinduism.

Prabhupada: Hindus..., we are Krsnian. It they, if...

Hamsadūta: Krsnans.

Prabhupada: Krsna, in the dictionary it is said that Hindu God, but we are claiming, that Krsnian, Krsna, Krsna conscious. Krsna conscious means "Broader than the Hindu." When you say we are not Hindu, that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Krsna says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community? Krsna says sarva yonisu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why He should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty-four million..., eighty, eighty, 8,400,000s, all forms. Krsna is for all of them. We therefore, why Krsna should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included, but Krsna is not restricted to Hindus. Krsna's picture, that Bala Gopala, He's embracing the calves. Krsna does not embrace only the gopis, He's embracing the calves also. That is Krsna. He's equal to everyone. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ papa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32].

Papa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivamso ji... [Bg 15.7]. Quote this: Krsna is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Muhammadans, they..., we embrace everyone. And actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus? That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to Western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Krsna is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming all our fallen brothers to become Krsna conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahaprabhu: prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama .

This is our movement. Why you should be restricted to the India, and amongst the Hindus? Our Gods[?], They asked that "Go, go," bharata bhūmite: you have taken birth in India, that's all right, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakara. Janma sarthaka kori koro para-upakara. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission. And the best men of your country they are recommending. All the learned circle, they are coming. How can you defy us? If you have got brain.... You are trying to brainwash. Actually you have no brain to that how important it is, this movement. You are trying to brainwash. We are not brainwashing. We are giving you good brain. That is our mission, that you are so dull-headed we have come to give you good brain. Su-medhasaḥ. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. We have come to make you intelligent. Receive us well, for your benefit. Tell them like that. Bring one court case, and I shall sit..., go and speak there, and expose them, item by item. I know my case is strong.

Hari-sauri: It's the strongest.

Prabhupada: [laughing] Yes. I will speak. If you cannot speak, I shall go and speak.

Gopala Krsna: There are a few Indians, I was just thinking, in America who are right at the top of the American scientific research. There is one Dr. Khorana, he won the Nobel Prize, and there are a few others who are right at the top of the...

Prabhupada: Where he is? Where he is?

Gopala Krsna: All in America. They're at the top of the US space program. I think we should also approach these people who are...

Prabhupada: Khorana Punjabis.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. He won the Nobel Prize, you know. But I just remembered that there are few other Indians who are at the top of the US space program, so if we approach them...

Prabhupada: Now our this Svarūpa Damodara and others, they can also come.

Gopala Krsna: We should approach all these people and get them to take part in the petition.

Prabhupada: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Krsna. Everyone, all over the world. God... "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians-everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirvisesa-sūnyavadi. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero: "There is no God." The zero-vadis, they are little frank, but these rascals, nirvisesavadis, "God has no head, no tail," they are dangerous. Zero-vadis, they call Him zero, that's all right. That is..., we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero..., nirvisesavadis, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hand, He has no leg." Then what He has? They are greatest cheater, more dangerous than the sūnyavadis. That is the version of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika, vedasraye nastikyavada bauddhake adhika. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction, we can understand. But these Sankarites, they take shelter of the Vedas and they say, "There is no form of God." And that is being followed, the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirvisesvadi.

Gopala Krsna: Impersonalists.

Prabhupada: All impersonal.

Jagadisa: That's why there may be a problem in getting Indian people to support our movement.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jagadisa: If there is any trouble in getting Indians...

Prabhupada: No, we don't care for Indians and Europeans. We care for Krsna, that's all. I didn't care for anyone. I simply care for Krsna, that's all. And my Guru Maharaja, that's all. I went to your country not supported by Indians and Europeans. I went on the order of my Guru Maharaja and under the shelter of Krsna's protection, that's all. That is wanted. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc Madhya 19.151]. We want two favors: one from guru, one from Krsna. That's all. We don't want anyone's favor. So you have to fight. You cannot fight immaterious. Krsna never said, "Arjuna, oh, you are My devotee, you sit down and sleep, I shall take care of..." He never said that. [laughs] So if you take that position, "We are devotees, nonviolent, and let us sleep," that is not... Fight, with all the resources that we have got. That is wanted. That you cannot stop.

[loud voices of Indian people in background]

They are coming, going, how you can stop? People, public, they are coming, going here.

Gopala Krsna: They all want to come and have a look at the guesthouse.

Prabhupada: That's all right. So prepare for fight. Don't be afraid. Arjuna, they were five brothers, and the other party, one hundred brothers. Therefore Dhrtarastra was confident, that "What are these five brothers without any help? We have ruined them. They were in the forest for thirteen years, lost all connection, no kingdom. I have got government in hand, and my sons are..., hundred sons, and we are well equipped. How...?" Therefore the... Bring that Bhagavad-gita, drstva tu panḍavanikam [Bg 1.2].

Jagadisa: Drstva tu panḍavanikam vyūḍham duryodhanas tada.

Prabhupada: If someone wants to come, let him come.

Aksayananda: Acaryam...

Prabhupada: Why you have refused him? Let him come.

Aksayananda: Acaryam upasahgamya raja vacanam abravit [Bg 1.2].

Prabhupada: Yes. What is the translation?

Aksayananda: "Sanjaya said, 'O King, after looking over the army gathered by the sons of Panḍu, King Duryodhana went to his teacher and began to speak the following words.' "

Prabhupada: Aiye, aiye. [guests arrive]

[break] Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is to preach. So you join us. Why should you be limited within Vrndavana? The people are taking this, and there is... Now they are feeling the strength. The whole world is now combining against this movement. That means they are feeling the strength. Certainly it is not credit.

Indian man: Certainly.

Prabhupada: Don't say "certainly." You must come forward to fight. If you simply sit down in Vrndavana, then Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is not being carried. He says, prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama , that is His mission. So this attempt has been made in Krsna consciousness movement, so why other parties, they should sit down and simply...? I am a tiny person; single-handed we shall fight. Why you should see the fun and do not fight? That I am asking you. I shall fight, and you shall see the fun.

Indian man: No, no.

Prabhupada: What is this? Now, you appear to be educated gentlemen, you combine, all the Gauḍiya Vaisnava gosvamis, and come with me to fight, because there is a world fight now. They are threatened. Their whole civilization is threatened by this movement. That is the position now. Whole Europe and America, they are combining. They are intelligent person, they see that this movement is spreading like epidemic. They have admitted, some of their party, "If this movement is allowed to advance, then some day they will take our government." They have expressed that feeling. And now they are preparing to fight out. These..., all these fathers of these young men, they are combining together to charge me that I am kidnapping their boys. So it is a serious situation. You should not see simply the fun and claim to belong to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Now you should come out to fight. Am I wrong or right?

Indian man: You are right.

Prabhupada: Then do that. Hold a meeting of the Gauḍiya Vaisnavas here, and I will explain the position. Now we should combine together and fight. As soon as you introduce something strong, there will be fight. There will be fight. Even Krsna had to see the fight, Kuruksetra. Dharmaksetre kuruksetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ [Bg 1.1]. The fight must be there, yuyutsavaḥ. So if you belong to Caitanya Mahaprabhu's party, then you should come out to fight. Whatever done is done, and it is done single-handed. Nobody has helped me, even not my Godbrothers. These American boys, they have helped me. They understood the philosophy and they helped me. Rather, they are criticizing that I am making these American boys sannyasi and giving them sacred thread. They are criticizing. What is your opinion?

Indian man: I don't think it's a subject of criticism. If he initiates….They are wrong.

Prabhupada: They criticize me. They do not recognize this temple as a Vaisnava temple. They say angrej temple. [laughter]

Indian man: [laughs] Something very fun. The living entities are eternal servants of Krsna. And whoever is integrated towards Krsna he is supposed…..

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Jivera 'svarūpa' haya nitya krs... [Cc Madhya 20.108-109]. Why they criticize? We are trying that. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ papa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32]. Why the papa-yonis should be neglected? So this thing have been done single-handed, now you should come forward, all, combine together. [Transl. You consider this very carefully and combine together. Come forward and join us.] There is a great fight. We are just planning how to fight. Simply [Transl. becoming a professional reciter what is the use? You can earn your livelihood only. But there will be no real benefit.] Now when there is fight, it requires real strength. Now their fight is confronting us because they are feeling the strength. Their whole civilization is threatened. We are recommending no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling and no meat-eating. But this is the basic principle of modern civilization. So the foundation is threatened. Theoretically they are taking that "If these four things are stopped, then where is our civilization? Where we stand?" Meat-eating, they have all over the world millions of slaughterhouse. So if these millions of slaughterhouse is stopped, then where they stand? They are threatened like that.

Indian man: Their whole set-up, their whole economy is being threatened.

Prabhupada: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so..., cigarette factories. So theoretically, if this movement is successful, then whole civilization is failure. So they are now looking... Because these young men have taken seriously, so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that against this Krsna consciousness movement they are framing a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their threatening. I am not kidnapping. I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. [Transl. So this is the position. You are in Vrndavana. All the gosvamis are here. You help me little.]

The gosvamis, they are sri-caitanya-krpa-bharau. Now prove. They are descendants. Now prove-come forward. Sri-caitanya-krpa-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityananda-vamsa. What is Nityananda-vamsa? Nityananda went forward before Jagai-Madhai and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityananda-vamsa? Fight between Jagai-Madhai and Nityananda... That is Nityananda-vamsa, simply taking advantage of coming from Nityananda-vamsa, "I have become guru. Give me your money," and sit down. "Let me enjoy life with my wife and children." That kind of Nityananda-vamsa will not help. Come forward to fight. With this fighting is now here.

[aside:] You can show the newspaper clipping. [Transl. There is a] ...big arrangement to fight this. First of all they thought that so many svamis and yogis come, all rascals, they stay for some time and go away. Even Vivekananda. [laughter] So this is not a bogus movement; it is taking stand. So now they are threatened and they are combining together, especially the Christian... [Transl. See how many accusitions in the papers.] But in each heading there is "Krsna." [break] ...bring various charges against our...

Devotee: Mind control, brainwashing.

Prabhupada: You should go to see Visvambhara Goswami also.

Aksayananda: [Transl. I will go to take cow urine.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In panca-gavya the cow urine is given. That is given more prominence. And milk is one of them but that is not. They ignored the other cow products. This system is going on. Other cow products are rejected and only urine is taken. It has urine taste. This is going on. So there is a big fight on. You all come forward and support. If those of you who actually want to go to the battlefield we will take you there. But you be prepared to fight.]

Indian man: [Transl. Surely we are ready.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is not that we have no capacity to bear the expenses. No. We will take care of that. But all of you stalwarts be ready.] This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration. Now combine together all Vrndavana gosvamis. Krsna cult is for everyone, either Gauḍiya or Ramanuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. [Transl. Hold a meeting that Krsna Consciousness movement is facing such and such problems. They are combining together to cut down the movement. Do you want that we go there and return defeated?]

Indian man: [Transl. No.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So all of you help.] They are concerned with the Krsna cult. Krsna cult means all the acaryas, all the acaryas, either Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka or anyone, they should combine together. [Transl. Simply sitting at home idly won't help. My Guru Maharaja criticized it. He wrote a song. [Vaisnava ke?] Mana tumi kisera vaisnava?] You understand Bengali?

Indian man: [Transl. Yes, I understand.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mana tumi kisera vaisnava? Pratisthara tare nirjanera ghare tava harinama kevala kaitava.]

Indian man: [Transl. That is kaitava.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. "I am a vaisnava. I don't go out anywhere. I sit at home and imitate Haridasa 'Thakura." Caitanya Mahaprabhu…]

[aside: Why you are talking? It is not very important? It is for him? It is a very bad habit.]

Prabhupada: So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaisnavas of different sampradayas, especially Gauḍiya sampradaya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight. Krsna never said that "Don't fight." Never said, Arjuna, that "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." Never said that. Kutas tva kasmalam idam visame samu... [Bg 2.2] Visame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anarya-justam, "like non-Aryan?" [Transl. So the fight is on. Right in front of you.]

Indian man: [Transl. It's a big fight.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So all of you come. I am alone.] This fight is another good news, that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many svamis and yogis come, come and go. But now they are feeling the strength, they charging that their young men are being kidnapped. It is strong party. And these boys, they have taken to Vaisnava principles, their parents have tried to take them back and induce them to eat meat and according.... They deny. This is also tried. I have got many disciples, they are coming out very rich family, rich father. So one of the fathers called his son that "I am old man. The business is dwindling. You come and take..." So I told him that "You go. Why not take your father's business and use it for Krsna?" So he went, on my order. The father wanted him to eat meat. So he denied, that "I cannot do that. I can help in your business, but I cannot accept your way of life. That is not possible." Then the father saw, "Then he is lost, useless. If he's not adopting our life..." So there, that one father; now the all fathers have combined, that "Our children are now lost. They do not come home, what to speak of adopting again our way of life." They cannot accept the way of life, meat-eating and... That is not possible. That they're finding dangerous. And other movement they join and they come back. They remain what they are. Simply they say that "I belong to this grouping." But our is different. Not only he belongs to Krsna consciousness movement, but a different type of life. [reads something] Hmm. Give it. They have taken all young men. There are many, many groups like that.

Hari-sauri: This is New York.

Prabhupada: Chanting in the street. [Transl. So do something about it.]

Indian man: [Transl. Certainly. Certainly.]

Prabhupada: What do you want to do? Propose. Hold a meeting of all the gosvamis. You take the leading part. Go to Visvanatha Goswami. If you like, he can go with you to see others: "This is the position. You come and join." What do they say?

Indian man: I plan to contact them, call a meeting.

Prabhupada: Yes. Immediately.

Indian man: How long you are staying here?

Prabhupada: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvami, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the sampra... Now it is question of Krsna cult, it is not only Gauḍiya. So take gosvamis, some of you, and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately arrange. And explain the whole situation. Let us combine. And those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. "This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone, but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone; why you say it is not genuine?" That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. [Transl. You take the leading part. Visvambhara Gosvami and others who are there let us go there combinedly. We will take you with our expenditure. Let us make a big propaganda.] This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Krsna? Make this combination. [aside:] Prasada, give him prasada. Very seriously take it. And you go with him. We have got any car?

Hari-sauri: Not right now. Not at the present moment.

[aside:] Hamsadūta's van here?

Prabhupada: Where our car has gone?

Aksayananda: Bareilly. They have program in Bareilly.

Prabhupada: When?

Aksayananda: Two days ago they went.

Prabhupada: No, when the program is?

Aksayananda: Now it's going on.

Prabhupada: Going on.

Aksayananda: Mm.

Prabhupada: When they will come back?

Aksayananda: About one week, one and a half weeks.

Prabhupada: So we can ask them to come back. The car will be required to go here and there.

Aksayananda: Okay. That's easy enough. I can do it.

Prabhupada: Mm. Or any other car available?

Hari-sauri: [indistinct] Krishna Chand.

Aksayananda: No, he doesn't have one.

Prabhupada: No, Visvan..., there is always car.

Hari-sauri: We have the motorcycle.

Aksayananda: We can arrange elsewhere. It's okay.

Prabhupada: Hah. So [Transl. meet everyone]. He will go with you, immediately. [Transl. Arrange a] meeting. Thank you very much.

[pause]

Prabhupada: Combine together in Vrndavana. Fight... Without fight where is life? If there is no fighting, then what is that life? That is dead stone. Fight must be there. Krsna's whole life is fighting from the very birth. His father carried Him to Gokula where He is still living, and He fell down from the Yamuna and... Just born, fighting began. Just born. And at Yasodamayi's house, Nanda Maharaja's house, so many demons daily coming-Sakatasura, Aghasura, Bakasura, Pūtana, so on, so on, so on; ultimately Kamsa, when He was young boy. Vrndavana, so many asuras came. You have seen the pictures? Krsna is fighting with the horse demon, with the bull, big demon, fighting. If Krsna is fighting, why not Krsna consciousness the same thing? You cannot expect peaceful life. No, there must be fighting, then think, "That is Krsna's presence, His fight." So this fighting means they're feeling the presence of Krsna consciousness movement. Otherwise why they're arranging fight? Had it been an insignificant thing, there was no question of fighting. [Bengali proverb. Masa marte Kaman.] The gun, Howitzer gun? What is that? German, some gun they will go from this part of..., this side of English Channel to other. Calais, the other side Calais?

Devotees: Calais.

Hari-sauri: Calais in France.

Prabhupada: Calais in France. So from France to other side English Channel, London, that's all right.

Devotee: Artillery guns?

Prabhupada: Yes, they... Hitler invented. The gun will be fired from this side.

Hari-sauri: Big, huge gun.

Prabhupada: Yes. So this gun is required not for killing a mosquito. [laughter] Big enemy. So they are preparing this big gun, and not the mosquito and this Mahesh Yogi and this yogi. You see? They are mosquitoes. For them they don't require any gun. So for big enemy, big gun, you see. They are preparing big gun, that means Hare Krsna movement is big enemy. It is not mosquito. So you remain a big enemy; you don't become a mosquito. That is wanted. Immediately arrange this meeting here. Call all the Vaisnavas, all. [Transl. You inform your party members. Nimbarka sampradaya. That it is Krsna cult and they are fighting against it. Nimbarka sampradaya is envious of Gauḍiya sampradaya. Do you know that? You are not aware of anything.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. No. I haven't heard it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That we accept Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead they don't accept it.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. I heard Sahkara dasa babaji is envious and not others.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. They all are. They criticize the gauḍiya vaisnavas on this point. We also criticize that to call an ordinary man as God. It is not surprising. Just like we criticize Ramakrsna as they call him God. In the same manner they consider Caitanya Mahaprabhu as an ordinary human being. To call a man God, no sampradaya will accept it. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is an ordinary man! That is the thing. Although there are scriptural evidences are there that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the difference.] ...so far Krsna is concerned, everyone. Hare Krsna. [end]