Room Conversation About Making Deities-- June 16, 1975, Honolulu

Prabhupada: This cow you have made?

Vrsni: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Srila Prabhupada, Vrsni made the Deities along with me. He's a very excellent sculptor. He is the boy who is responsible for most of the work on the Deities. And so I called, you know, so far as making more Deities...

Prabhupada: Yes. Why don't you make Deity of cement or plaster of Paris? Your wife worked a lot on this Deity?

Vrsni: She did a great deal of the sanding.

Devotee: On that?

Vrsni: She does a lot of the sanding, and she helped on the Deities that were made.

Prabhupada: How long are you married?

Vrsni: Two and a half years.

Prabhupada: No children?

Vrsni: No, not yet.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: So you live the other island?

Govinda dasi: Yes. He lives on the same island I live.

Prabhupada: When I went there, you were present?

Vrsni: Yes.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: So what is this, earth?

Vrsni: Excuse me?

Prabhupada: What is made of? Earth?

Vrsni: Yeah, ceramic, clay.

Prabhupada: You have not done it? No.

Vrsni: Did I make that?

Prabhupada: No, you have made it?

Vrsni: Yes.

Prabhupada: And wherefrom the flowers collected?

Vrsni: Oh, they were purchased.

Prabhupada: Purchased?

Vrsni: Yes.

Prabhupada: You do not grow flower?

Vrsni: We just planted some flowers in the front of our house.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Vrsni: They're about this big right now.

[long pause; sounds of birds and japa]

Prabhupada: So, what is next?

Vrsni: Do you have, uh...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Vrsni: For making the Deities, do you have specifications, or...?

Prabhupada: Hmm? Govinda dasi has them.

Vrsni: Same size, or does it matter so much?

Prabhupada: Gaura-Nitai, or Panca-tattva. Better Gaura-Nitai first time.

Govinda dasi: There was other materials that I was thinking of-liquid marble, resin or hydrostone. All of these are eq…, as hard as cement. [aside:] Aren't they?

Vrsni: Uh-huh.

Govinda dasi: I've heard liquid marble is very beautiful. Costs a lot, but very beautiful.

Vrsni: [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: They have this marble powder mixed with plaster or hydrostone, this harder stuff, mixed together, and you pour it and it looks just like marble, the finish...

Prabhupada: Whether...?

Govinda dasi: ...looks like marble...

Prabhupada: Whether...?

Govinda dasi: ...but very hard. So I was thinking this might be nicer...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: ...you know, and, and then there's this hydrostone, which is real fine. We tried that once before, remember? But we couldn't get the mold to work.

Prabhupada: Marble powder and?

Govinda dasi: It's marble powder. There's a way that they pour marble nowadays. They make it look like marble, but it's somehow poured.

Vrsni: You can do that with cement, too.

Govinda dasi: It's got cement mixed with it?

Vrsni: You can do it with cement. You can mix it with it.

Govinda dasi: Yeah. And then there's this other substance called resin, which is very hard, but you don't want to work with resin; it stinks, that's the only thing.

Prabhupada: Resin is [indistinct]?

Vrsni: It's very poisonous.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Vrsni: If you work with it, you will get very sick.

Prabhupada: Resin?

Vrsni: Yeah. But then it...

Prabhupada: Oh.

Govinda dasi: Once it's dry it's not, but working with it, it has a poisoned smell.

Vrsni: Even when it's dry you have to sand it, and the dust will give you pneumonia.

Govinda dasi: So liquid marble maybe.

Prabhupada: Marble powder is very nice. That will be nice.

Govinda dasi: Maybe it can be tinted, too, golden color. Lord Nityananda should also be the same golden color.

Prabhupada: Oh?

Govinda dasi: They should both be this golden color. You're satisfied with this coloring?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Govinda dasi: Are you satisfied with this, the coloring of the deities?

Prabhupada: Coloring, no. If it is marble-looking it doesn't require coloring. Simply eyes and mouth, color. Otherwise, it doesn't require color.

Vrsni: Do you want that They should be the same size, or smaller or...?

Prabhupada: Little smaller can be also.

Govinda dasi: You said about three feet the other day, you were saying.

Prabhupada: What is the size of this?

Vrsni: Four feet.

Govinda dasi: Four feet?

Vrsni: Yes, four feet.

Prabhupada: Forty inches.

Vrsni: This is, uh, almost forty-eight, I think. Isn't it?

Govinda dasi: I can't remember.

Vrsni: I'm not sure exactly.

Govinda dasi: But you said about three feet. That would be about this big.

Prabhupada: Yes, that much is…

Vrsni: That's [indistinct]. If you're gonna use a heavy material, that heavy material…

Govinda dasi: Yeah, that's true. Unless, of course that there's the possibility of brass even. Too hard?

Vrsni: Uh, I could make them in…, in… Could be made in brass, but it would be very, very, very expensive.

Prabhupada: No. Brass, it can be done here?

Govinda dasi: He can do brass, but it would cost a lot.

Vrsni: I would… I could make the, uh, the mold and the wax positive forms, and then there would have to be commercial casting by [indistinct], and that would be very expensive.

Prabhupada: There is a factory casting?

Vrsni: There is a person who has done it.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Vrsni: There is a person who, at least this was when I was in school about four or five years ago, who was…, who had set up a commercial foundry...

Prabhupada: Oh.

Vrsni: ...and he could…, I'm sure he could cast it. There also, another possibility is the University, Hawaii, may also be able to cast it, but I don't know about that large.

Prabhupada: Unless we get professional, we cannot.

Vrsni: Yeah.

Prabhupada: No amateur can. Those are molding such things. They can do it.

Vrsni: If there is… If, if there is a person who would professionally cast them, and, uh, it would be very simple to make the wax forms.

Prabhupada: Wax? Why wax?

Vrsni: Because to cast them into brass, first you have to make them wax, and then you put a mold around them, the, the form, and then you melt it so that the wax runs out, and then you have to pour in the molten metal inside. That is the process. So the original forms could be made in wax...

Prabhupada: Oh.

Vrsni: ...which would be very simple, because all you have to make is…, is a plaster mold. You make the first one with clay, and make a plaster mold, and from that plaster mold you can make a great many wax forms. Pour the wax in, the wax hardens, put them together, make them smooth, and then they're...

Prabhupada: Why wax?

Vrsni: Why wax?

Prabhupada: You cannot make the mold directly?

Vrsni: No.

Govinda dasi: The…, the metal burns out the wax, doesn't it?

Vrsni: Well, first you burn out the wax in…, in oven or kiln, and then you pour in the metal.

Prabhupada: That I do not know.

Govinda dasi: It's a part of the process, that, to make the brass.

Prabhupada: But in India they do not make wax.

Vrsni: Perhaps they carve it in wood and then burn out the...

Prabhupada: No.

Vrsni: I don't know how to make it.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: Metal will very costly be. Don't do it. That powder. Rather, make a wire framework inside, and then apply this marble. Just with the stone and the...

Govinda dasi: Hmm.

Prabhupada: …make inside.

Govinda dasi: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Metal wire form. That is not very difficult.

Govinda dasi: That, that's…

Prabhupada: Then apply this, and then finish.

Govinda dasi: That's how we did Kartamasayi that time.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Govinda dasi: We made a rubber mold over the original. We made a rubber mold, and then it was plaster on the outside, then poured the liquid hydrostone, then, and put the wire frame, wire frame for strength...

Prabhupada: That was practical. Very, very strong.

Govinda dasi: …and, uh, that's how we used hydrostone.

Prabhupada: The clay, you make a framework with straw and apply the clay. It becomes quickly done. If you have got a frame, then it is very easy. You just apply the clay and then finish it nicely.

Vrsni: What kind of…, what kind of clay do they use? Is it baked or...?

Prabhupada: Ordinary clay. They mix with some straw dust and cow dung. That is not permanent, but they very quickly work, one or two days they make one doll. Our Bharadvaja knows it perfectly. He is doing already, clay. They are so expert, in one day they will make one doll. And as soon as it is little dried up, then there are cracks, then they will finish it, fill up these cracks, and then at last they fix up the head. Head at last. Head is not straw; clay. Head is solid clay, but body made of straw and rope. Very quick business. One day they make the form, and the next day they cover it with clay, and the third day or fourth day, and it is dried up and finished. In this way, at most takes one week.

Govinda dasi: They let it dry in the sun?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: They let it dry in the sun?

Prabhupada: No. Just dries in the room by the air.

Govinda dasi: And it becomes hard and doesn't break easily?

Prabhupada: No. The clay mortar is there, inside, and it will rise up on account of the straw frame. It is not very… [break] [end]