Room Conversation about Bullock Cart SKP – September 12, 1976, Vṛndāvana

That will be helpful if you chant

Prabhupada: I have seen, Gandhi wanted to organize a village program, and the village...

[break] ...in the field, that this program for constructing toilet in the village, they have spent so much. You know that?

Lokanatha: Yes.

Prabhupada: The first business was toilet. To restrict them to pass stool here and there, they must have. Now in constructing that toilet paraphernalia, [aside:] [Transl. On the desk. Take it away.], they... Therefore it failed, village organization. Not for that purpose. There were many purpose. Because they had no engagement, so why they should remain in the village? There are so many attraction in the city, and they get money. The factory-wallas, they're inviting, "Come here. You shall get twenty rupees per day." Why shall he remain in the village? So if you can organize in the villages, they are interested in chanting Hare Krsna mantra and getting nice prasadam, then... One must have some attachment. In the city there are so many artificial attachments. So on what ground they'll remain in the village? Mind..., always remember this. Unless you have got some attachment, there is no possibility. Gandhi's program was very nice, village organize so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village. But where is that satisfaction? That is the failure.

Lokanatha: If they add the holy name to their lives, they will...

Prabhupada: Yes. If they could understand that "That will be helpful if you chant." Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's statement will never be false. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12]. If they chant Hare Krsna mantra, then gradually the dirty things accumulated within the heart will be cleansed. And if he comes to the understanding, clear idea, that "I want to eat something, and my necessities... So if I get my necessities, primary necessities of life, and satisfaction of mind, then why shall I go to the city?" That they can have very easily. If they follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gita, that "Your first necessity is food..." So produce food here. Krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam [Bg 18.44]. And you'll find here so much land is lying vacant, because they have gone to the city for twenty rupees daily to manufacture Goodyear tire. And who will work here? Now I have seen in Delhi, the government is advertising, "Go back to the village."

Lokanatha: Yes, I read that. Not imitating in the village.

Prabhupada: Rascal, you are manufacturing wine and keeping them engaged whole day in the work. So after tired, being tired, he requires some wine. And why he'll go? And no spiritual education, no cleanliness. Simply inviting, "Go to the village," they will go?

Lokanatha: Just a propaganda.

Prabhupada: No, they're thinking that "So many people are coming to the cities; how we shall provide them?" That's a problem. After all, government has to supply them rations. Where is so much foodstuff? And if they are not supplied, then there will be resentment. That's a fact. What they are doing in the city, so many scooter [makes motor sound], going here and there. Actually no engagement. The girls are loitering in the street by dressing. It will become more and more problems, city life. So this is the solution, that they must go back to the village. But they are trained up to enjoy the facilities, so-called facilities, of the city. They are not going to village. But if we can introduce this hari-sahkirtana, and if they have little taste, that is success. It's a great program. And that taste will come-ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12].

If he simply becomes little sober, that "I want to eat, I have to sleep, I want some sense enjoyment and defense. So if I can get easily in the village, why shall I go three hundred miles away?" Just keep in mind the psychology. So that simple life will be possible if one is bhakta. Bhaktiḥ paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42]. Only by devotion; not by otherwise. Not by artificial means, by manufacturing toilet. Only bhakti. If they get little attachment for Krsna, these questions will be solved automatically, and they will be happy. Undoubtedly. That is the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's first instruction: ceto-darpana.

Lokanatha: I come from village, and I'm happy now, as I have taken to holy name and prasada. So more, other villagers... Half of these boys are from villages. [referring to other members of the bullock cart party]

Prabhupada: Yes, they are villagers.

Lokanatha: They're chanting and they're so happy, and they're going back to village.

Prabhupada: Very good life. Very good life, the village life-provided he has got proper engagement. Otherwise his mind will be disturbed, and he'll seek after wine, after women, after this, after that. Devil's workshop.

Ravi: Srila Prabhupada? Because there's no sacrifice, because people aren't performing sacrifices now, is it more difficult to live off the land? It is more difficult to grow vegetables in Kali-yuga where there's no sacrifice?

Prabhupada: What is that sacrifice?

Ravi: Chanting. Chanting the holy name. Doesn't that make it more difficult to live? The weather's..., everything's so disturbed?

Prabhupada: Whether you're not eating?

Lokanatha: He says there is no yajna, sacrifice. People are not performing. That is why they are into the trouble.

Prabhupada: This is yajna. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Su-medhasaḥ. Those who have got brain substance, they perform this sahkirtana-yajna. Those who have cow dung, they cannot. [laughter] One who has got brain substance. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. And alpa-medhasa. The two words.

Svayambhūr: Visvambhara is having fever, but he'll go to Koshi now. Visvambhara is having fever, so he'll go...

Prabhupada: Who will go?

Svayambhūr: Visvambhara will go when he's better, maybe tomorrow.

Prabhupada: That's all right. There is another word: tad bhavaty alpa-medhasaḥ [Bg 7.23]. Tad bhavati... Alpa-medha and su-medhasa. These two words we get from the sastra. Those who are alpa-medhasa, they want to bring... Just like in name, gita-yajnas. There is no yajna. They are manufacturing some ideas. The other yajnas are not possible in this age. First of all, there is no yajnika-brahmana, there is no ingredients. So therefore this is the yajna. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayaiḥ. This is quotation from Bhagavata. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti he su-medhasaḥ. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni... [Cc Antya 20.12]. This yajna. Simply chant, and engage others in chanting. That is yajna, first-class yajna, recommended.

Ravi: Prabhupada? When we pass through the village, how will we keep them engaged...

Prabhupada: That he'll guide you. You do not know. He is from village, he knows. Village or no village, wherever you chant, people will come. That is a fact. Either you chant in Calcutta Maidan or in the village, they will be... India is still alive in that sense. We have seen it. We have experience. Wherever we have chanted, people have come.

Lokanatha: When you went to some place in Gujarat..., Sanand? It was reported that thousands of people will came. It was a small village...

Prabhupada: Yes. Village, if you go, ah, they will come like anything. Even in the city we have got experience. In Calcutta we did Maidan. Thirty thousand they were coming. They could not understand English, still they are coming-simply by kirtana. This Hamsadūta was performing kirtana, and all the Bengali ladies coming from outside Calcutta by train, and they're praying, "Take this." [indistinct] Still India is alive. And I was speaking in English mostly. Also in Delhi. Still ladies are sitting. [laughs] What they'll understand English? But that kirtana was so attractive, they sat down only for kirtana.

Lokanatha: Nobody outside ISKCON does this kirtana.

Prabhupada: What do they know? What they'll do? All rascals, fools.

Lokanatha: Even some religious organizations are there, but nobody...

Prabhupada: They do not know what is religion. They do not know what is religion. They have no faith in God. This is their position. All bogus. I say it, challenging, do they know what is God? [Transl. What do you say], Mr. Gupta? Do they know? People in general, do they know what is God?

Mr. Gupta: They don't know what is God. But they only respect God out of fear.

Prabhupada: That's all right. That is also good. Arto artharthi [Bg 7.16]. Artaḥ. That is good. But still they do not know what is God. They have simply heard the name of God, there is God. That is good also, than the rascals who deny the existence of God. So in comparison to them, they are very good. At least they accept there is something as God: "God is good," "God is kind," "God is..." But what is God they have no idea. That's a fact. That they do not know. Either the nonbelievers or believers, both of them, they have no idea of God. This is the first time, perhaps, in the world we are introducing, "Here is God, Krsna."

Lokanatha: You have said many times you could give complete address of Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes, we give address.

Lokanatha: And also we know the telephone number.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Lokanatha: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: This is the first time. Otherwise, they do not know what is God. Now you are coming from Christian community. Did you have any idea of God?

Dhananjaya: Just "God is great."

Prabhupada: That's all... But what is that great? What is God, you do not know. We know. Krsna says, mattaḥ parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg 7.7]. Bas. "There is no more greater principle than Me." That is great. "How You are great?" Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]: "I am the origin of all these demigods." Next "How You are great?" Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam pravartate [Bg 10.8]. This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Aham sarvasya. Vedanta says, janmady asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God," krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. Ete camsa-kalaḥ pumsaḥ [SB 1.3.28]. There are other incarnations, but krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. That's a fact.

So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first-class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful that he'll want it again. But give the pure thing. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to give Him to the people. And how to take it? Hare Krsna. He hasn't got to pay anything. God has given him the tongue. Induce him, "Chant Hare Krsna." And that is the beginning. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.234].

It begins from the jihva. So people will be surprised, "How God consciousness begins with jihva?" That they do not know. Sastra says, sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. Jihva, the tongue, is the beginning of Krsna consciousness, God consciousness. People are surprised. They think the mind, speculative mind, is the beginning. No. Sastra says tongue is the beginning. Muni, rsi, muni. Muni means speculator. So they think speculative mind is the beginning of God consciousness. But sastra says no, not the mind. Manorathenasati dhavato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. If one is speculator, he will be on the material field. Asata. Asato ma sad gamaya. "Don't remain in the asat. Come to the reality." That reality begins from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. Jihva adi, adau. So give them chance to chant Hare Krsna, and give them chance to taste prasadam. They'll be... That's all. Jihvadau. Utilize the tongue, primarily. And gradually everything will be...

So chant as much possible and eat prasadam. No education required, no philosophy required. But follow the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction and become guru.

If they have got little brain, then krsna-upadesa. Otherwise, Hare Krsna upadesa, that's all. Chant Hare Krsna. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction, yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc Madhya 7.128], then he's successful. No ostadi. That is not...

Lokanatha: No what?

Prabhupada: Ostadi, ostadi.

Lokanatha: Flowery language.

Prabhupada: [Transl. I have become God. This is ostadi. He is being kicked by maya's shoes and he has become God. He does not have this much sense that had I been God then why I would be beaten with shoes? Does God subject to be beaten by shoes? When Krsna came, was He beaten by shoes? Rather He beat everybody with shoes. That is God.]

That is God is great. Nobody can defeat Him. Nobody can go beyond Him. Asama-ūrdhva. Nobody is equal to Him. Asama, ūrdhva. Nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him. That is God. Nowadays there are so many Gods, everyone God. So what kind of God? If God has a competitor, then what is the God? God has no competitor. Asama-ūrdhva. Everyone is down. Asama. Not equal, not ūrdhva. Then down. Two things..., three things are there: equal, level; upper and lower. So there is no upper and there is no equal. Then all lower. Then He's the supreme controller, isvara parama. In the lower level there may be isvara. But they are not parama. Subordinate.

Lokanatha: Īsvara krsna ara saba bhrtya .

Prabhupada: Ara saba bhrtya. God is one, and all others, they are subjects. Nityo nityanam. Why these two words are used? Nityanam. Everyone is nitya, but He's the supreme nitya. Cetanas cetananam. He's not dead body, dead matter. Cetana. Nitya..., just as the Himalaya Parvata is standing forever. No. Cetana, living. So how He can be imperson? Himalaya Parvata may be very big, the sky may be big, but it is not cetana. Therefore this word is used, cetana, living. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13].

What is the difference? Eko bahūnam vidadhati kaman. That one nitya is providing, maintaining all other nityas. That is God. God is great. That is the meaning. So anyway, make your effort sincerely. The basic principle is this: induce them to chant and take prasadam, you'll be successful. Not very much ostadi.

Lokanatha: So we'll write to you, give you reports.

Prabhupada: Yes. Go to village to village. It is very noble attempt. And if you sincerely preach, Krsna will... Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te. There is no doubt.

Indian man: Lakhon guru hain jagat me par eka bhi nahi hain kama ka, sava svartha ke asraya danka bajate nama ka, Visvasa ka guru eka ho baki nahi kucha khyal de, yo khas ki pehchana de aise guru par jan de. [Transl. There are millions of gurus in the world, but not even one is good for they are guru in the name only. Faith is your greatest guru. One who recognises this special characteristic recognises a bonafide guru.]

Lokanatha: He joined us four days back. He's from Maharashtra. I'm taking him with me.

Prabhupada: He understands the philosophy. Wherefrom it is quoted?

Lokanatha: [Transl. From where you quoted?]

Indian boy: [Transl. There is one Maharajaji from Maharastra. It is from saint Tukru.]

Lokanatha: Saint Tukru.

Prabhupada: Oh, Saint Tukarama. He's a great saint. He is Mayavadi or Vaisnava?

Lokanatha: Tukarama is Vaisnava. But I don't know…

Prabhupada: Oh! Tukarama is Vaisnava.

Lokanatha: But this is different.

Indian boy: [Transl. He is Tukarama's disciple.]

Lokanatha: Tukarama met Caitanya Mahaprabhu at Pandarpur.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Then it is all right.] Tukarama is a disciple of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then it is in order. What is the verse...

Indian man: Lakhon guru hain jagat me par eka bhi nahi hain kama ka, sava svartha ke asraya danka bajate nama ka, Visvasa ka guru eka ho baki nahi kucha khyal de, yo khas ki pehchana de aise guru par jan de.

Lokanatha: It's a very nice quotation.

Indian boy: Nahi hone denge barbada yo denge sacchai ki yada woh hamare gurudeva Srila Prabhupada: [Transl. We will not let it go wasted. What he has given is the truth. That is our spiritual master Srila Prabhupada.]

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. [Transl. No, there is no difficulty for us. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said,] "By My order." That's all. That I was explaining to Mr. Gupta. If I say this bag of bead, you take it and give it to him, then where is my difficulty? There is no difficulty. This is called bead bag. You take it and give him-and you become guru. Call a spade a spade. And if you become ostada, "Kuruksetra means this body, and this means this, and this means that," then you spoil. You spoil yourself also. [Transl. Your translation is good. One or two places need correction. That…You stay here for some days…] [end]