Interview with Reporters – August 6, 1973, London

George found Krsna consciousness movement as genuine

Reporter: You're just over here for a visit, are you? Or are you staying here? Do you intend to stay here?

Prabhupada: If you allow me.

Reporter: Well, is there any problem about that, then?

Prabhupada: Yes, because your immigration department is very strict nowadays.

Reporter: So they only allow you a visitor's permit, then.

Prabhupada: Yes, I am a visitor. Although I am proprietor of so many temples…

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: ...still I am a visitor in my temple.

Reporter: So you're just a visitor, but you want to stay here?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Reporter: You want to stay here?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Permanently?

Prabhupada: Can you help me?

Reporter: Oh, I don't know. I'm just a newspaperman.

Prabhupada: Then why are you asking me?

Reporter: Well, because I'm interested. I wanted to know whether you would be here…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: …just for a visit…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: …or whether you were here...

Prabhupada: England…

Reporter: …permanently.

Prabhupada: England, especially London, is the most important city in the world, so there are many nice people here. I very much like to talk with them. So if I am allowed to stay here, I can stay and make friendship with nice people here. That's all.

Reporter: Yes. When did you arrive? When did you arrive in England?

Prabhupada: [to Hamsadūta] You can reply.

Hamsadūta: Umm, about couple of weeks ago. Just before Ratha-yatra. Seventh of July?

Prabhupada: Seventh?

Hamsadūta: Seventh of July.

Reporter: Seventh of July. From India. From India.

Hamsadūta: From Calcutta.

Reporter: And you've had this, uh, this house since May. Is that right?

Hamsadūta: Since May. Yes

Reporter: And George Harrison of the Beatles bought this house for you.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: How did you get to know George Harrison?

Prabhupada: Well, I am a mendicant. I travel all over the world.

Reporter: You're a what?

Hamsadūta: Mendicant.

Prabhupada: Mendicant.

Reporter: Yeah. Yeah.

Prabhupada: So people come to me. That is my profession.

Reporter: Well, where did you meet Harrison, then?

Prabhupada: In here. I first met him here.

Reporter: In London?

Prabhupada: Here in London, 1968.

Reporter: 'Cause he had another juru [sic] didn't he? He had, um, what was his name? The Maharishi. The, the old gentleman with the beard.

Prabhupada: Yes, he is a good boy. He is searching after some spiritual enlightenment. That's very good idea.

Reporter: Yeah, but he used to…

Prabhupada: And he found Krsna consciousness movement as genuine.

Reporter: [to devotees] So, uh, I'm sorry. When did he say he met George Harrison? In 196..?

Devotees: '68. In London.

Reporter: 1968. But..., but George Harrison went to India, and he was, uh, he met there the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Prabhupada: I do not know that. But I have heard it.

Reporter: You've heard it, yeah. He's the gentleman with the big beard.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yeah. How is it that he got… I mean, if he had one Maharishi juru [sic], guru, whatever you call yourselves, if he had one, why does he need two?

Prabhupada: Well, guru we can make many, for learning many things.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: But he can stick to one.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Just like in the Western countries, the girls, they meet many boys. At last she selects one. [chuckling]

Reporter: Yeah. Did he give this house to you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Do you pay anything for it at all?

Prabhupada: Uh?

Reporter: Do you pay him anything for it at all?

Prabhupada: Well, where is money I shall pay?

Reporter: Sorry?

Prabhupada: Where is money I shall pay?

Reporter: When you get it, you'll pay for it, will you?

Prabhupada: No, no.

Bhajahari: Where is the money? He says he hasn't any.

Prabhupada: You asked me…

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: …whether I paid anything.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: But where is my money?

Reporter: Haven't you got any?

Srutakirti: Doesn't have any money.

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: No.

Prabhupada: I am a mendicant.

Reporter: So you live here. This is a…, is it right, fifty-five rooms in this place? Fifty-five?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: And what are you going to do with them all?

Prabhupada: Oh, you are welcome. Come and live with us.

Reporter: How many people live here now?

Prabhupada: About fifty people. Not less than.

Reporter: Fifty people living here.

Hamsadūta: At least.

Reporter: That's ladies and, uh...

Hamsadūta: Ladies, yes.

Prabhupada: Ladies separately. Gentlemen separately.

Reporter: And what do they do all day?

Prabhupada: Yes, they…, they are chanting Hare Krsna mantra.

Reporter: Chanting Hare Krsna...?

Prabhupada: Yes, and eating prasadam, foodstuff offered to Krsna.

Reporter: And eating what?

Prabhupada and Devotee: Prasadam.

Hamsadūta: Prasadam. P-r-a-s-a...

Reporter: P-r-a-s-a...

Hamsadūta: ...d-a-m

Reporter: ...d-a-m

Hamsadūta: Prasadam. It is spiritual food, or food offered to Krsna.

Reporter: Well what's spirit... What, what's, what is it, spiritual food?

Hamsadūta: It is all vegetarian foodstuffs prepared and then offered to Krsna. It becomes spiritual. It is called prasadam.

Prabhupada: You can say that we don't eat meat.

Hamsadūta: Yes. We don't… We follow four principles very strictly. We, all our students, they do not eat any meat, fish or eggs. That means we don't kill animals-no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxicants-they take not even tea or cigarettes or coffee.

Reporter: Not even tea, cigarettes or coffee.

Hamsadūta: No tea, coffee, cigarettes. Nothing. No intoxication. And they are…, no illicit sex life.

Reporter: Yeah.

Hamsadūta: And they don't gamble. No gambling. These are our four restrictions.

Reporter: Now you are, your..., some of your younger men are getting the hall ready for a temple. Is that right? I just saw them.

Hamsadūta: They are preparing the hall downstairs for a temple.

Prabhupada: Yes, that will be used for temple.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: Wherever we stay, that is a temple.

Reporter: Yes. Yeah.

Prabhupada: We have got so many temples. This is the picture of our Los Angeles temple.

Reporter: Yeah.

Hamsadūta: In Los Angeles.

Reporter: Yeah.

Hamsadūta: On the..., on the twenty-first of this month, twenty-first and twenty-second, there will be a big ceremony, an installation, a Deity installation ceremony. I think it mentions in, in your...

Reporter: Yeah, yeah. But apart from eating and chanting, what else do you do here? You sleep in the afternoons, do you?

Prabhupada: No. We have got so many books. There is class. We have got… Show him the books.

Reporter: But you sleep in the afternoon, do you? You've just…, I'm told you've just woken up. Is that right?

Prabhupada: Yes. I don't sleep at night. I sleep some time in daytime.

Reporter: What do you do at night, then?

Prabhupada: I write books.

Hamsadūta: He writes these books. Prabhupada has written more than fifteen big books like this. You can look at them.

Prabhupada: He can note down my books. They are selling [indistinct].

Hamsadūta: Like to have a look at them.

Reporter: Yeah. And do your people go up to the West End chanting and collecting money? Do they? Do they go from here? Are they the people one sees in the West End?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Collecting money by selling books.

Reporter: Yeah, but these are the people that one sees in Oxford Street.

Hamsadūta: Oh, yes.

Reporter: They come from here.

Bhajahari: We also have a center there, in the West End.

Reporter: Yeah. But what I, you know, you've got fifty people here. How many… What sort of…, are they...

Prabhupada: They go with books outside, and they chant, and anyone likes, he can purchase our books. Our main source of income is by selling books. All over the world we are selling books, about $300 per day.

Reporter: Yeah.

Hamsadūta: In our center here.

Prabhupada: All center.

Reporter: How much do you need to keep this place going? I mean, how do you live here? How much money do you need a week to keep this...?

Prabhupada: That I don't keep account. He knows. What…, what must…, how much we want.

Bhajahari: At least a hundred pounds each week.

Prabhupada: Hundred pounds each week.

Reporter: You can get a hundred pounds each week?

Bhajahari: Yes.

Reporter: Where from?

Bhajahari: We have…, just like our spiritual master was saying about selling books.

Reporter: You get a hundred pounds a week selling books, do you?

Bhajahari: Well, some people make donations also.

Reporter: Yeah.

Bhajahari: We have programs. Raise money.

Prabhupada: We have no fixed source of income. We have no fixed source of income, but we depend on Krsna.

Reporter: You're not as rich as the Divine Light Church, or the little guru, the little...?

Bhajahari: Guru Maharaj-ji.

Hamsadūta: [to Prabhupada] He wants to know if we are as rich as Guru Maharaj-ji.

Prabhupada: I do not know about..., much about Guru Maharaj-ji. [laughing]

Bhajahari: We don't...

Prabhupada: Do you know anything about him?

Reporter: Well, I know he has a very expensive motorcar, and uh… Do you have a very expensive motorcar?

Hamsadūta: No.

Prabhupada: No. Just see our expenditure is sit down on the floor, just lie down on this floor. [laughter] You are experiencing how we are luxuriously living. We cannot offer even a chair. This is our position.

Reporter: But that's because you don't want chairs, though, isn't it?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Reporter: That's because you don't want to have chairs, not because you can't afford chairs.

Prabhupada: No. If you offer me chair, I can sit down.

Reporter: Yes, but you don't really…, be happier sitting there, not in a chair.

Hamsadūta: Here's a chair.

Prabhupada: There is a chair. [laughter]

Reporter: Why, uh, why do you need a fifty-five-room mansion to carry out your work?

Prabhupada: Because George has given.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupada: Otherwise we can lie down on the street. We don't deny. If you offer me another house, I can accept also.

Reporter: How often do you see George?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsadūta: How often do you see George? How often he comes here?

Prabhupada: Since I have come here, he has come here twice, thrice.

Reporter: Twice.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Just twice?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: He arrived… You arrived here July, didn't he?

Devotee: Yeah.

Reporter: July the seventh, did we say?

Hamsadūta: Mm-hm.

Prabhupada: He comes along with his friends.

Reporter: What is he do?

Prabhupada: He sings.

Reporter: He what?

Prabhupada: He is a musician; he sings, that's all. He glorifies Krsna. His recent record, he has glorified Krsna, by Krsna's grace.

Reporter: What do you think of him as a sitar player?

Prabhupada: We are not very much concerned with sitar players.

Reporter: Yeah. No, no.

Prabhupada: We are concerned with the devotees.

Reporter: I didn't mean that frivolously. I meant what do you think of him as a sitar player? I understand he does play the sitar.

Hamsadūta: He does play the sitar. He wants to…

Prabhupada: He has not played anything before me, but I know that he is a good musician, that's all.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: But he has not played anything before me. When he comes, he talks with me, that's all.

Reporter: What about?

Prabhupada: About this Krsna.

Reporter: Yeah. You say you don't smoke cigarettes. Do you smoke anything else?

Hamsadūta: Nothing. No.

Reporter: No, no. No pot or anything?

Hamsadūta: We don't even drink Pepsi-Cola.

Bhajahari: No intoxication.

Reporter: Why is that?

Hamsadūta: Because we don't take anything which is not necessary for maintaining the body and soul together. We simply take what's required.

Prabhupada: We want to live very plain and simple life.

Reporter: You don't take anything that what? That doesn't require what?

Bhajahari: That isn't required to keep body and soul together.

Hamsadūta: We want to live very simple. Plain living, high thinking.

Prabhupada: Well I…, I, I am surprised. So why you don't ask anything about our philosophy? You are asking ordinary things.

Reporter: Well I'm coming to that, I'm coming to that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: I'm coming to that, you see.

Prabhupada: That is most important thing.

Reporter: It's just that, take…, take…, we want to take things as we get to them, you know.

Prabhupada: These are ordinary things. Either you sit on a chair or on the floor, it doesn't matter.

Reporter: Umm. It can be uncomfortable sitting on the floor, if you're not used to sitting on the floor.

Prabhupada: No, we are very comfortable. Just see.

Reporter: Oh, I can go into, in London, into a Japanese restaurant. They say, "Please would you sit on the floor?" and I'll say, "No, I'm…, don't want to sit on the floor. I'm very uncomfortable having my meal and sitting here for two hours." So I go to a…

Prabhupada: Those who are uncomfortable, we offer him chair. Yes.

Reporter: I go to a part of the restaurant where they have chairs, and I'm comfortable, you see.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. You must sit comfortably.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupada: So we ask gentleman who comes here, "If you want chair?" If he says, "Yes, that will be nice," we give him chair.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So if you want chair, I can give you.

Reporter: Oh, no. I'm moving around all the time, you see.

Reporter: It said… It says on this little thing-I don't know who wrote it, uh, what's his, uh..?

Hamsadūta: Syamasundara.

Srutakirti: Syamasundara.

Reporter: Syamasundara. It says here that George comes twice a week. Is that right? Or twice. Has he only been here twice? Twice a week, or does he come twice?

Prabhupada: He has come twice. Sometimes twice a...

Srutakirti: He sees Syamasundara many times a week.

Prabhupada: Oh, he sees Syamasundara many times, here.

Srutakirti: Syamasundara saw him last few days. Saw him today, yesterday.

Reporter: What about...

Prabhupada: Actually Syamasundara, that Syamasundara has induced George to take some interest in our Society. He is friend. So he… George may come and see him twice in a week.

Reporter: But… So you could live… You talk about wanting to live simply. You could live simply in an ordinary house, not…, you don't necessarily need a fifty-five-bedroom house?

Prabhupada: No. If you offer, why shall I deny it?

Reporter: Why should you...?

Prabhupada: If you, you, just like George has...

Devotee: Deny it.

Prabhupada: …given us this house...

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: ...similarly, if you give us a house, 155 rooms, we shall accept. Immediately.

Reporter: Hmm.

Prabhupada: And we shall utilize it properly.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Not that we are neglecting. We are keeping. Just see, we are keeping this room very nicely, neat and clean. People come and sit down.

Reporter: Were you surprised when he bought it for you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Had he met you...?

Prabhupada: He has paid £200,000 for this house.

Bhajahari: 220,000.

Reporter: He has paid £220,000?

Bhajahari: Yes.

Prabhupada: [aside to devotee:] [indistinct]?

Srutakirti: 220,000.

Prabhupada: 220,000.

Devotees: That's right, yeah.

Reporter: When did you know that he'd bought it? Did he write to you in India and tell you, or how did you know?

Prabhupada: No, Syamasundara talked with him.

Srutakirti: Syamasundara is George's close friend, so that was arranged between Syamasundara and George.

Reporter: Yeah, and then, and then they told the, uh….

Srutakirti: Then they told Srila Prabhupada they'd done it.

Reporter: Yeah, and then this is why he came over to..., to England, because he had this center?

Prabhupada: You have seen our London center?

Reporter: No, I haven't. No.

Prabhupada: That is very, very small house, although it is five-story. That was not suitable.

Reporter: Where was that?

Prabhupada: 7 Bury Place.

Srutakirti: 7 Bury Place.

Prabhupada: 7 Bury Place.

Bhajahari: B-u-r-y

Prabhupada: Bloomsbury.

Bhajahari: B-u-r-y

Hamsadūta: Right behind the British Museum.

Reporter: Why… That, that…, that only had how many rooms?

Prabhupada: How many rooms?

Bhajahari: Maybe had fifteen.

Prabhupada: Fifteen? No. Not so many.

Srutakirti: Two rooms a floor.

Prabhupada: Not more than ten rooms.

Hamsadūta: Ten rooms, but very small rooms.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: So that wasn't very suitable?

Prabhupada: Not suitable. We were about more than fifty devotees.

Srutakirti: Sixty-seven devotees.

Prabhupada: Sixty-seven devotees. So we wanted a bigger place. So Syamasundara told George that if he can give us a…, give us some money, we can purchase. So he has purchased without taking any of our money.

Reporter: Without taking any...?

Prabhupada: Our money.

Srutakirti: Of our money.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: We have no money.

Reporter: How many people belong to your sect in…, in Britain? I mean, not just the fifty here. Are there others?

Prabhupada: Yes, we have got other centers-in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Birmingham, Dublin and… What other places?

Bhajahari: Notting Hill Gate in London north.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: So how many followers do you have?

Prabhupada: Many followers. At least fifty men, not less than twenty-five, in each center.

Reporter: Well that could be… My arithmetic is not very good. How many…, how many centers have you got?

Prabhupada: About half a dozen.

Devotee: Six.

Prabhupada: Six.

Reporter: So six centers of fifty men in each.

Bhajahari: No. Not less than twenty-five.

Reporter: Not less than twenty-five. So six fives are thirty, two sixes are twelve. That's 150.

Bhajahari: Approximately.

Reporter: About 150 members of your sect...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: ...in Britain, so far.

Prabhupada: No. We have got... Just like George does not live with us, but he is also our…, one of the members.

Reporter: Oh, I see. Yeah. These are the people that live with you...

Prabhupada: Living.

Reporter: There are...

Prabhupada: But there are many others who are living outside.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: You can take photograph of our temple. Down.

Reporter: Oh, that's not the temple I've… You are preparing, you mean. Downstairs?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupada: From the twenty-second August it will be regular temple room.

Reporter: Have you applied to the Home Office to stay here?

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: Have you applied for permission to stay?

Prabhupada: No. I am going day after tomorrow to Paris.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Then I will come back again, during the ceremony.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: In this way I am coming, going. I have got so many centers. I have to visit and see how things are going on.

Reporter: But you're going st... This'll be your headquarters, will it?

Prabhupada: Yes. In Europe it will be my headquarters. Just like in America I have got my headquarter, Los Angeles.

Reporter: In Los Angeles?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: In India I have got my headquarters, Mayapur.

Reporter: Yeah. This, uh, letter, we had talks about people like Peter Sellers, Donovan, Allen Ginsberg, "aging seeker..."

Prabhupada: Allen Ginsberg came here. He comes to see me.

Reporter: What about Peter Sellers?

Prabhupada: He sees...

Bhajahari: He's coming tomorrow.

Prabhupada: He's coming tomorrow. He sees Syamasundara.

Srutakirti: He's seeing Syamasundara. He was staying with some of our devotees in Mexico for the last two weeks.

Prabhupada: Lord Brockway came to see me the other day. Lord Fenner Brockway. Sir Alisty…

Bhajahari: Alistair Hardy.

Prabhupada: …Hardy, he likes our movement.

Reporter: Who? Lord Brockway came to see you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotees: Yeah.

Prabhupada: And what is this? That Professor, Sir Alistair...

Hamsadūta: Sir Alister Hardy from Oxford University.

Prabhupada: He also came. And that editor. Many gentlemen come.

Bhajahari: John Papworth.

Reporter: Who?

Bhajahari: John Papworth, from Resurgence.

Reporter: Then, well, what about people like Graham Hill?

Bhajahari: Yes. He was here about ten days ago.

Reporter: Well what do these people do?

Prabhupada: They talk about our philosophy. Therefore I was asking why don't you talk about philosophy.

Reporter: Graham Hill came, uh… So all these-Sir Alister Hardy, the Bishops of Kingston and Southwark. Have you seen them?

Bhajahari: They're to come in the future.

Reporter: Oh, they're coming in the future?

Bhajahari: After. After Srila Prabhupada returns from Paris.

Reporter: But Dr. Ramsey, the Archbishop, is he coming?

Bhajahari: After Paris.

Reporter: Dr. Arnold...

Hamsadūta: [to Prabhupada] In Paris, in Paris they have a…, the Assistant Mayor will give you an official reception to the city in City Hall when you come there on the tenth…, on the ninth, rather.

Reporter: What about Dr. Arnold Toynbee? Has he been here?

Prabhupada: Yes. No, I saw him.

Bhajahari: Mr. Toynbee is very… He can't move around very much, so Prabhupada went to visit him.

Reporter: Yeah. How did they get to know about your movement? How do these people-Graham Hill and Peter Sellers and-how do they, how do you think they get to know about you?

Prabhupada: [to devotee] How do you want to…

Bhajahari: We are propagating. All the devotees here are propagating...

Prabhupada: You see, any movement, if it is approved by the leading men of the society, it gets the standard. Our movement is very scientific. Therefore we want the leading men. Just like you are a journalist, we wish that you also try to understand how important this movement is. And if you think that it is actually it is important, you should help us in propagation. That is our motive.

Reporter: Yeah. So the Bishops of Southwark have gotta come; they, they're coming. Dr. Ramsey's coming. Have you, have you had any… Do you write to Dr. Ramsey, the Archbishop of Canterbury, or…?

Prabhupada: No. I don't write. My assistant, they arrange meetings.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupada: I am...

Reporter: He's gonna come to see you?

Bhajahari: He's coming, yeah.

Reporter: How do you know that?

Bhajahari: Well, one boy is arranging all these meetings.

Reporter: Oh, he's, yeah. I see. Now apart from eating and chanting, you must meditate, too. Do you here? Do you spend your time meditating?

Prabhupada: Meditate… Do you know what is meditation?

Reporter: Well, it's deep thought, isn't it?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So we are always in meditation...

Reporter: You're always in meditation.

Prabhupada: ...because we are thinking of Krsna.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: Not that we meditate for five minutes and do nonsense twenty-four hours. Not like that.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: We meditate twenty-four hours.

Reporter: Yeah. All the time, yeah.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is our business. We don't make, "This is…, this time are for meditation and this time is for slaughtering animals." We have no such thought. We meditate twenty-four hours. That is our philosophy. Kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ .

Reporter: What about prayer? How much time do you spend in prayer?

Prabhupada: Yes. Prayer is also meditation.

Reporter: Yeah, but how much time do you spend, then?

Prabhupada: Our meditation is twenty-four hours, in varieties of occupation. We are meditating chanting; we are meditating dancing; we are meditating eating; we are meditating preaching; we are meditating writing; we are meditating reading; we are meditating singing. So these so-called meditators, they close their eyes and sleep for some time-not like that. We have got our occupation, varieties, but each occupation is meditation.

Reporter: Yeah, but you get up at four-thirty, apparently. This all starts at four-thirty, doesn't it?

Prabhupada: Yes, mahgala-aratrika. Offering aratrika, reception to the Lord.

Reporter: At four-thirty.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: And all fifty of you are up at that time, are you?

Hamsadūta: Well, before that time, actually. Three-thirty, four. Ceremony is at four-thirty.

Reporter: What time do you go to bed, to sleep?

Hamsadūta: Nine-thirty, ten.

Prabhupada: Ten.

Reporter: Ten.

Prabhupada: Six hours' sleeping.

Reporter: You say you have a sort of lifestyle comparison with monks in monastery? Early rising and busy day and early to bed.

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Reporter: Similar.

Hamsadūta: Rising early is very important.

Reporter: Now what about your philosophy, then? What is your philosophy? Let's talk about philosophy.

Prabhupada: Our philosophy is this is God's creation. Everything what you see, that is God's creation. And He has created this cosmic manifestation with a purpose. As every…, everyone creates something with a purpose, not whimsically. So we living entities, we are also one of the creation of God. So our business is to understand what is God, what is our relationship with Him, and act accordingly. That is…, that is our constitutional position.

Reporter: Well what does that in fact mean in practice? How do you act accordingly in practice?

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we are acting. We are rising early in the morning, we are offering reception to God, and we are chanting His glories, we are reading about His activities. So this is our understanding what is God. And then we are trying… People have forgotten God. They have become animals. They are interested simply eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is animal life. Animal has no other business than these four types of activities-how to eat, animal...

Reporter: Sleeping…

Hamsadūta: Eating, sleeping, defending and mating.

Prabhupada: Yes. Animals eats, animal sleeps, animals have sex life, and animal also defend from enemies. So human being, at the present moment, they are also engaged in eating, how to eat; economic condition, developing how to sleep, big, big skyscraper building; and how to have sex life, freedom of boys and girls, just like hippies, to manage sex life without any restriction, like cats and dogs. So… And defending also. You might have discovered atomic bomb and other scientific method for defense-that is defense only. But these business are there in animals also. So what is the special business of human being? Can you tell me?

Reporter: So what...?

Prabhupada: These four businesses-eating, sleeping, enjoy sex life and make defense, force-so these four things are done by the animals. So you also do in a different way, in a scientific way, but the business is the same.

Reporter: So what do you do? You, you eat and sleep. So what else do you do?

Prabhupada: We… You, you have not yet marked? Our only eating, sleeping, everything is for God.

Reporter: Yeah, but what else do...

Prabhupada: That is the difference.

Reporter: Yeah, but, but that would, I mean...

Prabhupada: No, no. What else we are doing else? Nothing else. What you are doing, work, we also doing that. You are sleeping, we are sleeping; we are eating, I, we are eating.

Reporter: Yeah, that's...

Prabhupada: So our business special is: whatever we do, that is to understand God. That is the difference.

Reporter: But do you… You don't ban sex here, do you? I mean, do you ban sex here?

Prabhupada: Why? We have got; he is grhastha. This, this boy, he is writing note, he has got his wife.

Reporter: His wife is here?

Prabhupada: Yes. We have got separate department for grhastas, householders.

Reporter: Yeah, so, so sex isn't banned?

Prabhupada: Sex is allowed...

Reporter: So sex is...

Prabhupada: ...in married life, not outside.

Reporter: So the only thing then that you're not doing that man is doing is defending.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Hamsadūta: No.

Prabhupada: No, we are defense also. Suppose if you come to attack, I shall kill you, immediately.

Reporter: Well, then, I don't see that, uh...

Prabhupada: No, no. Why you are surprised? Suppose you come to kill me, or set fire in my house: I shall immediately kill you. That is defense. If you want to... We, we take a man aggressor when he comes to take my property, when he comes to set fire in my house, and he comes to kidnap my wife. Then I must defend.

Reporter: Yeah, well you… You haven't explained or you haven't understood what I'm asking. If you are eating, sleeping, you allow sex within a marriage...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: ...uh, and you'll defend yourself if I come to kill you...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: ...what are you doing different than what everybody, you know...?

Prabhupada: So that you have not still marked, you are so dull-headed. We are doing everything for God, but you are doing everything for dog. That is difference.

Reporter: How, how… Explain why people are doing it for dog.

Prabhupada: We can see. So many people, they have become servant of dog. Takes the dog in the street: the dogs pass urine, he stands, waits. You see? You have not seen this? The same care we are taking for God. That is the difference. What care you are taking for the dog, the same care we are taking for God. That is the difference.

Reporter: If I…, if I wanted to join your, your group, do I have to give up everything?

Prabhupada: No. Why? The eating, sleeping...

Reporter: No, no. Do I have to give up material things, like my job?

Prabhupada: So what material things we have given up? We are using this tape recorder.

Reporter: So what about my job? Would I have to give up my job?

Prabhupada: Yes. That you can give up. We can provide you. You can give up your this job and join with us, and we shall give you shelter, food and everything. That much we can guarantee.

Reporter: Do they have to give up? Do you, I mean, do your followers have to give up...

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: ...working?

Prabhupada: No. You do not give up. Suppose you are journalist. You report God's activities, then you are a devotee.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Then you are devotee.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: You are giving ordinary reports, but if you give daily a report what God's activities are, then you are devotee. The same business. This is our movement: that you have to do everything as you are doing, but do it for God. That's all. If you want to report God's activities, we can give you daily big, big columns of activities.

Reporter: The, uh, the arrival of fifty saffron-robed, shaven-headed people in this little village must have excited the people who live here. Did you…, had any contact with the villagers here?

Prabhupada: Well, anything new, it becomes little agitating.

Reporter: Yeah. Have you had any trouble with the villagers here?

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: No complaints about your banging cymbals or...?

Prabhupada: So how they can complain? They haven't got… They have a teeny house somewhere in the corner. We are chanting, dancing, in a big house, so they cannot hear it...

Reporter: They can't hear you?

Prabhupada: ...so how they complain? They have no opportunity.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Because they are in the corner of the village, and we are living in the seventy acre of land, so how these...

Reporter: Seventy acres? Seventeen acres.

Prabhupada: Seventeen acres. Yes. So how these poor people can be…, hear about us?

Reporter: Where do you, uh, where do you, are you… Where are you normally based in India? Calcutta?

Prabhupada: Again you are coming to the common question. I… You have begun philosophy, and I must be living somewhere, Calcutta or hell, that doesn't matter. You are concerned what I am doing now.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: What you will know, what you will gain, if I lived in Calcutta or in heaven or hell? You, you should know what I am doing, that's all. You should know our philosophy.

Reporter: How do you recruit your members, then?

Prabhupada: Yes. If you come here, you will be member.

Reporter: Yeah, but not everybody's gonna come out to, to…

Prabhupada: Just like George has become member.

Reporter: Yes, but he went to India, didn't he?

Prabhupada: So if you come also, you will become member.

Reporter: But, uh, I mean, how do people get to know about, apart from seeing your, your people in Oxford Street?

Prabhupada: My people go there. If you don't come, my people go. Just like he has written you a letter.

Reporter: But do you knock on doors and that sort of thing, or do you just parade round the streets, your members?

Prabhupada: No. If I am called, I can go anywhere. I go to deliver lectures in meetings, if I am invited. Otherwise, my students do this business.

Reporter: You're going to France to lecture, aren't you, next week?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Or tomorrow, is it?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: But who are you going to lecture to there?

Prabhupada: That they have arranged. I will go and see what.

Bhajahari: They have arranged in Paris. When he goes, he'll know.

Reporter: Oh, you don't know at the moment who you are going to lecture to.

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: No. Do you speak French?

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: I see.

Prabhupada: So you try to understand our philosophy and write in papers. That will be a great service for you.

Devotee: Chair?

Prabhupada: Give him a chair.

Devotee: Have a chair.

Reporter: No, no, no. No, no, it's all right. Thank you. These people who have come to see you, like Graham Hill and, and uh, Sir Alister Hardy, have they..., have they joined your movement, or is it, was it just a philosophical discussion that you had with them?

Prabhupada: Well, they like it, they just… [break] …that you are a reporter, you report about God's activities, then you giving service to God. That's all.

Reporter: But, but what, but, how the…, how are you initiated?

Prabhupada: That is official function, rituals.

Reporter: It's like a baptism, is it?

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Like that.

Reporter: And that takes place in your temple?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: So George has not been initiated, in fact. He's just a… He's just a follower but not a, not a member?

Prabhupada: He is good follower.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Practical. Simply by shaving hair, that is not very important thing. But if he does actually some help, that is more than a devotee.

Reporter: What's the purpose of shaving your head?

Prabhupada: Purpose is to lead very simple life, that's all. Clean. If you shave your hair, you remain clean. You don't require shampoo and soap and so many other things to keep the hairs in order. That is also economic profit. You save so much money. We are seeing…

Reporter: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: …in the Western countries, in the bathroom, there are so many bottles. Even in airplane. We don't require all these bottles. We save the money. We simply wash with water, that's all. At most little oil, that's all. Finish.

Reporter: Is there a symbol, the fact you don't completely shave but you have a small piece...?

Prabhupada: Yes, by shaving you keep your brain cooler.

Reporter: By shaving you...

Prabhupada: [aside:] Yes, what is it?

Srutakirti: A letter from Sir Alister Hardy.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Here is the questions and answers. He is a research worker in religious experience, therefore we had many talks with him.

[break] …very important man of the society to understand this, science of this philosophy. Our main business is we are also thinking deeply how the human being, human society, will be happy. That's all. As all the politicians or philosophers, scientists, they are thinking for the major benefit of the human society, we are also thinking, but we are thinking in terms of God consciousness. That is the difference.

Reporter: But this, uh...

Prabhupada: [reading] He says, "I too hope that we may meet again and have a further discussion of these vital issues."

Reporter: These are questions that you put to him personally...

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Reporter: ...what a, at a, at a meeting with him?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Did he… Did you go to Oxford, or did he come here?

Prabhupada: He came here.

Reporter: I see, yeah.

Prabhupada: You have not read this portion?

Reporter: Yes, I've read that.

Prabhupada: "I too hope we may meet again and have a further discussion on these vital..." So he has taken this movement seriously, that there is something to learn.

Reporter: Yeah. And so you wish to influence the thinking, the...

Prabhupada: Not thinking-practical. Just like these four principles: no illicit sex…

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: …no intoxication.

Reporter: No?

Prabhupada: No intoxication.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: No gambling, and no meat-eating or fish-eating. So we want to introduce these four principles in the society, because at the present moment the society is maintaining for killing poor animals big, big slaughterhouse. We can do it without. I have seen, yes, Western gentlemen, they eat meat, a little, small slice. But if they can give up that small slice, then we can save so many poor animals' life. But they will not do that. Although Christian says, "Thou shall not kill," but they are very expert in killing.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: Why? Why the, unnecessarily, poor animals should be killed? And you are responsible for the sinful activities. We are now killing innocent animals small scale, and if there is world war, then the human being will be killed in the mass scale. The…, this is the reaction. But they do not think of these things. They think, "We are free to kill the animals." But he does not know the nature will take revenge.

Reporter: This, uh, talking about animals, this, this letter here says that you've got cows, and they're even at home in the hallways. It says, "at home in the rose beds and in the hallways." Do you have cows inside the house?

Prabhupada: Yes. Not for killing.

Reporter: No, but you allow your cows to come through the house, do you?

Prabhupada: No, we take milk.

Reporter: Yeah. But do they come inside the house, downstairs?

Prabhupada: Downstairs? I don't think any cow comes here.

Reporter: Then what does that mean then, you know, "at home in the rose beds and in the hallways"?

Hamsadūta: Well, we have another house for the cow, [laughter] separate. We have a place for the cows.

Reporter: Yeah. That's a cowshed?

Hamsadūta: Oh, I guess...

Srutakirti: They've only come in once or twice, I mean. But that doesn't mean...

Hamsadūta: Sometimes they may walk in, but, because we are very friendly with the animals, we don't, uh...

Reporter: So you wouldn't mind if a cow suddenly walked in?

Hamsadūta: Well, we keep them in their place, but sometimes...

Prabhupada: And on the whole...

Reporter: I'm just understanding this…

Prabhupada: ...we don't keep them for killing. That is not wanted.

Reporter: Yeah.

Hamsadūta: The point is that we don't keep any animal for eating. A cow is here for milk.

Reporter: And you work in the fields and gardens? You're growing food, are you?

Hamsadūta: Oh, yes.

Reporter: In the, in the seventeen acres, you're growing food. And tropical greenhouses also.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: You, you use those for growing...?

Prabhupada: Produce our vegetables.

Hamsadūta: Tomatoes.

Reporter: [banging noises] What's that I hear?

Prabhupada: Fruits, flowers, vegetables.

Reporter: What's that I hear?

Devotee: They're working on the temple room.

Reporter: Oh, it's a hammer.

Reporter: I thought… It's a hammer. I thought it was…

Hamsadūta: I think we should get him a chair.

Prabhupada: No, he doesn't need. We have offered.

Reporter: Why do we have to see you-if we want to interview you-why do we have to see you in the morning or after four? What happens between times?

Prabhupada: What is that?

Hamsadūta: Wants to know why interview time is set for four o'clock, after four. Because...

Prabhupada: You want interview should go on twenty-four hours?

Reporter: Yeah, I see. You need a rest, do you?

Prabhupada: So we have got our scheduled time. We generally take our meals by two o'clock.

Reporter: Do you take them communally? Do you all sit down together and eat?

Prabhupada: No.

Reporter: No? Not like a monastery, then, where you all...

Prabhupada: No, not like that.

Reporter: Your, your married people live here in another part of the house, do they?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: With their children? Do you have children here?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Reporter: What do they get...?

Prabhupada: We are going to open a children's school. We have got already one children's school in Dallas, America.

Reporter: Yeah, but what, what happens… Have you got children here of school age? You know, ten, eleven, twelve?

Bhajahari: No. Just one boy. He's five.

Reporter: Oh, he's five. Well what, where is he going to go to school, if you don't have your school here?

Bhajahari: Well we…, we have one we're starting.

Reporter: Oh, you're going to open a school here?

Bhajahari: Yeah.

Reporter: I see.

Prabhupada: We have our teachers.

Reporter: Yeah. Will they come from India, or will they be people you've trained here?

Prabhupada: No. Local men. Why Indians? We have no such distinction.

Reporter: Have you been in England during the winter at all, ever?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Reporter: And does that...

Prabhupada: Very bad experience.

Reporter: Yes, but, uh, what...

Prabhupada: Everything becomes solidified. [laughter]

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So I went to Regents Park, and with my stick in the fountain, tung-tung.

Reporter: So how, you know, you…, and yet you're gonna live here. I mean you're, you're an old man to be coming to a cold climate like this, aren't you?

Prabhupada: No. We have no objection. But because we come from India, this winter is little troublesome for us.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Otherwise I have, in winter, I have gone to Germany also. Russia it was not winter; it was June. So we are prepared to go anywhere. It doesn't matter. In Boston, I was there in a regular snowfall. Regular snowfall, storm snowfall. Still I was going on morning walk, on the snow.

Reporter: How do you… If you travel all over the world like that, who pays for your traveling? How do you find the money for that?

Prabhupada: There are many person. These, my disciples, they pay.

Reporter: I see that you are registered as a charity, it says here. Charity number 259649.

Prabhupada: Yes, we accept charity.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: We are allowed. The other day… Where is that letter, that one gentleman sent hundred dollars?

Hamsadūta: He said, "Thank you very much…"

Prabhupada: Yes, "That you are preaching God consciousness."

Hamsadūta: "…you're…, you have given us knowledge of God. Please accept my donation."

Prabhupada: In this way we are getting charity. There are many nice men in the world. They appreciate very much that in this godless society, we are the only person, our only business is to preach God consciousness. We are simply..., we are practically the only society who is insisting, "Don't take intoxication. Don't have illicit sex. Don't eat meat. Don't take part in gambling." Perhaps we are the only society.

Reporter: You're the only religious society to do that, even religious society?

Prabhupada: No, apart from religious or political, we are advocating these four principles…

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: ...to accept. Perhaps we are the only society who is doing that.

Reporter: Yeah. This...

Prabhupada: We consider these are the four pillars of sinful life.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: So if you remain sinful, you cannot become happy. That is nature's way. Why should we kill animals if we have got sufficient food otherwise? We can prepare many thousands of nice preparation from milk. After all, meat-eating means eating the flesh and blood of cow. But if you take the milk, and if you can prepare from milk, you'll get the same benefit, material benefit, from casein, from milk preparation, from condensed milk-so many things-from ghee.

This is more sensible. Milk is also blood, another transformation, so why you should slaughter and take blood directly? Why not take indirectly, by nature's way? You'll take the same benefit, and the poor animal is not killed. And I am surprised. I have not any satisfactory answer, whenever I ask any gentleman that if the Christian principle is first, "Thou shall not kill..."

Reporter: Do you… Do you regard yourself as human?

Prabhupada: What do you think?

Reporter: Well, your followers seem to regard you as being superhuman.

Prabhupada: Yes. Superhuman means I am not acting as ordinary human being.

Reporter: That's right. Do you regard yourself...

Prabhupada: I, yes, you can regard also, because we are engaged simply on God's business.

Reporter: Yeah, but you personally, you...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: …do, do you regard...

Prabhupada: We are personally, personally engaged. What is my business? My business is that "You stop your sinful life. Try to understand God." If you take it as superhuman, it is superhuman. But my business is nothing to show you anything miracle. I talk only that "You do not indulge in these four principles of sinful life, and try to understand God." You can do also. Is it very difficult task?

Reporter: But, but your followers seem to regard you as being, uh, some sort of holy…, holy man.

Prabhupada: Because I am holy.

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Because I am not committing any sinful life, and I am preaching of God. That is I am holy. So everyone, my disciples, they are also holy. They are following me. They are doing the same thing. And if you do that, you will become holy.

Reporter: Are you married?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yes. Have you got children?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Where are they? Are they in India?

Prabhupada: In India. Calcutta.

Reporter: You've got just one wife, have you?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Reporter: Only one wife. How many children have you got?

Prabhupada: I have…, I have got two sons and two daughters.

Reporter: Are they members of your sect?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Reporter: Are they, have they been initiated into your...?

Prabhupada: Yes. But because I am a sannyasi, I cannot live with them.

Reporter: Because you're a…?

Prabhupada: Sannyasi. Sannyasi means renounced family connection.

Reporter: You've renounced family connections.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is sannyasa. We have got four division: brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. First of all a man is trained how to become brahmacari, celibate life. Then he is allowed to marry. Then after some days he gives up the connection of family and travels in holy pilgrimages.

Reporter: In holy...?

Devotee: Pilgrimage.

Prabhupada: Holy places. And then he takes sannyasa, renounce. This is our Vedic principle. So at the end of life… Suppose you live for a hundred years-nobody is living for a hundred years-anyway, the injunction is when one is fifty years old he should give up family connection and simply live for God's sake, for God's business. This is Vedic civilization.

Reporter: How long have you been a member of the Society for Krsna Consciousness then?

Prabhupada: Just… It is started by me.

Reporter: Started by you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: How long ago?

Prabhupada: In 1966.

Reporter: '66. But how long have you been, uhhh…?

Hamsadūta: Devotee of Krsna.

Reporter: Krsna, yes, the devotee of Krsna?

Prabhupada: That is lifelong, from my birth.

Reporter: From your birth. Yeah.

Prabhupada: Because my father was also devotee. He trained me.

Reporter: Yeah. Started in 1966.

Prabhupada: Our whole family was devotee of Krsna. [reporter getting details from Hamsadūta in background] But this movement was started by me, in New York in 1966.

Reporter: Apart from George Harrison, have you ever met any of the other three Beatles? Uh, Paul, John...

Prabhupada: Yes, I… I do not, but Syamasundara meets. That Ringa, Ringa?

Hamsadūta: Ringo.

Reporter: Ringo.

Hamsadūta: John.

Reporter: John.

Prabhupada: Yes. I was guest in John's house. Yes. I was guest. John also, met me. He made me, made me guest in his house in 1968.

Hamsadūta: '68, yes.

Prabhupada: What is that, Tittenhurst?

Hamsadūta: Tittenhurst.

Prabhupada: Tittenhurst Park.

Reporter: And what about Ringo?

Prabhupada: I remained there for one month.

Reporter: Ringo and Paul?

Hamsadūta: Syamasundara, he...

Prabhupada: Syamasundara...

Hamsadūta: Syamasundara, he, he had…, he is always associating with these people.

Reporter: Well who is Syamasundara? Who is he?

Prabhupada: He is my secretary.

Hamsadūta: He is a secretary. Prabhupada's secretary.

Reporter: He's not here today?

Prabhupada: He is…, he is in London. He is come at seven.

Reporter: Have you talked to other members of the British press at all this, this week?

Prabhupada: I do not know. They arrange.

Reporter: This week?

Prabhupada: They arrange.

Hamsadūta: No. This week, not yet.

Reporter: Not yet. We're the first, are we? Somebody said they've sent out a...

Hamsadūta: Yes, we've sent to everyone.

Reporter: Yeah. Somebody said something arrived here this afternoon from some, from another paper. Is that right?

Hamsadūta: I think they…, probably talking...

Bhajahari: Yes. No, not this time. Another paper.

Hamsadūta: Another paper.

Reporter: What paper was that?

Bhajahari: The Daily Mail.

Reporter: The Daily Mail. When are they coming back?

Bhajahari: This evening, they said.

Reporter: Oh, I see.

Prabhupada: After four, people come here, up to nine.

Reporter: Four people coming tonight?

Devotee: No. After four o'clock they come all day.

Prabhupada: People, guests, they come to see me...

Reporter: Oh, I see.

Prabhupada: ...from four to nine o'clock.

Reporter: Do you play that?

Prabhupada: What's that?

Reporter: Do you play? Do you play that?

Prabhupada: Sometimes, yes.

Reporter: What is it?

Prabhupada: This is harmonium.

Reporter: Harmonium is it? Oh. Yeah. Do you just travel with..., just lightly, do you? You just travel as you stand up, do you, when you go, when you travel abroad?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: You don't take anything with you, apart from books or something?

Prabhupada: Books are there in every center.

Reporter: Oh, they're there already. So you just go like that, do you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupada: Have you seen all our books?

Reporter: Well, I've seen some of the books, but I'd like to see some of the house. This looks like the only part of the house that's, uh, furnished.

Prabhupada: Oh, we have got some other rooms also.

Reporter: Is it?

Hamsadūta: [to other devotee] Do you want to take him around? You want to see… You'll have a complete…, go around the grounds and see everything.

Reporter: Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much.

Prabhupada: Give him prasada.

Reporter: They're too rich. I've had it before.

Reporter: What is it? It's like marzipan is it?

Devotee: Yes, something good like that.

Reporter: Little rich, I find.

Hamsadūta: Take a little. Take a little.

Reporter: No, I'll pass on that.

Prabhupada: So give him something poor. [laughter]

Reporter: I have traveled to India and such places, and so...

Prabhupada: Oh. Give him little fruit. That is poor. [laughter]

Reporter: Yeah, it is rich, isn't it? Hmm. Well, we're going to see around the house.

Reporter: Yes. Is it, um… I want to take a picture of the house, actually, from outside.

Hamsadūta: Yes, we could do that.

Reporter: That is presumably at the end of the garden.

Hamsadūta: Yes, this is the best place to take pictures. Also very sunny.

Reporter: Thank you.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] our philosophy [indistinct]. It is good for human being.

Reporter: It's not possible to get…, go out into the garden, is it, at all?

Hamsadūta: Oh, yes.

Reporter: Is that possible, so I could have him in the sunshine?

Hamsadūta: Oh. Prabhupada... Oh, well, Pra… [break] [end]