Conversation with Shriman Narayan, former Governor of Gujarat – May 2, 1977, Bombay

Rishikesh is appealing. To drink Ganges water...

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please come. Sit down. Sit down.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Sit here?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Sit down. Please come, Mata.] Your wife…

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. How is your health?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I am not well.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Not well. Hmm.]

Indian lady: [Sriman Narayana's wife.] [Transl. It's very hot.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Here?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Yes, Here in Bombay.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not more than your Wardha.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, less than Wardha. It's cooler here than Wardha. But you look weaker than before.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We are planning to go to Kashmir.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You will go to Kashmir?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, The climate is very cold there now.]

Giriraja: This is prasadam from the Deity.

Sriman Narayana: Yes. [Transl. This is my eldest son.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He works in Dubai in a big building project of India.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. In that project, he is…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In Dubai? Is he engineer?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Dubai. United Arab Emirate. This is the first big project.]

Mr. Bharat: [Sriman Narayana's son] [Transl. It is the first major Indian project. The biggest construction project of India so far. It will cost one hundred crores. And all the required materials will be shipped from India.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. All the materials, labours are from India.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. All the engineers and labours are from India. The people there are very happy with the work.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. Indians are intelligent by nature. This I have studied.] Indians... So, but they have sacrificed everything for..., to imitate the Westerners. [Transl. The knowledge India has got, what can be said about that!] But we have locked it. Our knowledge, we have locked it, and we are trying to imitate.

Sriman Narayana: Yes, true. Imitation is not good at all. We must keep our originality and ancient culture.

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is our great culture.] Vedic culture. [Transl. It has been spoiled.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Now your health should improve as soon as possible.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is an old machine.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Machine.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is a machine.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You told me that you arrived in America at the age of seventy-one with only forty rupees in your pocket. You told me. But within ten years you have created wonders.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. The government would not allow to carry more money than forty rupees. Besides, I didn't have any money. So I thought let me go with that only. Sumati Morarji had given me a seat in her ship. So with forty rupees I went.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. In ten years you have accomplished so much.]

Indian lady: [Transl. In ten years you created wonder.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Just see within ten years.]

Indian lady: [Transl. You went at the age of seventy-one.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You went at the age of seventy-one and had only forty rupees with you. Aside: He is about eighty- two years old I believe.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And now I bring ten lakhs rupees every month from there.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Ten lakhs coming.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Per month.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Per month. I was asking about your Mayapur project, you told me it would cost about two hundred crore. So I was asking from where this huge amount of money is coming. And I came to know that your main income is from your publications. Aside: So much income from the books he has published.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I write books at night.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Don't you write now?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. That work I don't stop.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You don't stop. Which book are you writing now that is yet to be finished?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh. That same Bhagavata translation is going on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Bhagavata.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Now I am working on the Tenth canto, forth chapter.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Tenth canto.]

Prabhupada: With great praise our books are.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Now they are published in all languages. They said even in Chinese.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Chinese, Japanese.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. China, Japan Russia. All languages.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not all. Some are left.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Some are left. In how many languages do you have books?]

Giriraja: Twenty-three different languages.

Sriman Narayana: Twenty-three different languages. [Transl. In all the major languages you have published. This is a great achievement.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is the mercy of the Supreme Lord, otherwise a person cannot even write one or two books in his whole life.] Within ten years I have already given eighty-four books.

Sriman Narayana: Eighty-four books. [Transl. Here are the books. Not all of them I think.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. No. All are our books.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, [aside: all are his books. but you have more, eighty-four in total.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, we have more.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. These are not all. Do you print all your books in that one place only?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Now we have started printing in Hindi also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Hindi also you have?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Show him.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Very neat and nice printing. Very good printing. Great work. In your main printing press in America, are the books of all the different languages published? Or there is arrangement for their printing in different countries?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. Most of the books are printed in America. Now we have started here also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Started in India also.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Good quality paper is available there.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Very good composition and printing. It looks attractive.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It will look even better.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It will look better.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If all of you help then this work can expand even more.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It can expand more.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Neither the government nor the leaders like you come forward and help us…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You have nothing to do with the government.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. We have everything to do with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You are concerned with God directly.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And it is God alone who is pushing forward the entire movement.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. But there were so many inquires going on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I was very happy, you told me before at Wardha that some litigation against us is going on, but now it is all clear. It came in the newspaper also.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Still there is some. People are so mischievous.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. The Supreme court there has dismissed the charge. Is it not?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. They have accepted that the Hare Krsna Movement is bona fide religion.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. This is very good that the Supreme Court of America has given the judgment in your favour. Some people accused that they are spoiling our younger generation.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. ..Forcibly kidnapping our…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Kidnapped our… But now everything is peaceful, isn't it? Or something more is going on?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mischief will go on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It's over now.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mischievous people will always play mischief. yasya hi yaḥ svabhavasya tasya sau duratikrama sva yadi kriyate raja sva kim na sa duḥkḥapanam….. A person cannot give up his own nature. Suppose you make a dog a king, it will not stop licking shoes. sva yadi kriyate raja sva kim nasa duḥkhapanam. That's its business. Therefore people's nature which has been twisted, that has to be changed. And to reform it the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears Himself. yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg 4.7]

[Transl. When people in general forget the duty of a human being, that is called dharmasya glanir or declination of religious principles. So whenever there is a decline in religious principle yada yada hi dharmasya the Supreme Lord descends and instructs how to act in life. He comes and tells sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66] But nobody hears Him. Forgive me, but even the big, big leaders don't care about Him. What to speak of others.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. But the Supreme Lord's disc does not spare anyone.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, the Lord's disc will spare you. The Supreme Lord says mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg 7.14] But the illusory energy Maya will not spare you. daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya. No matter how hard we try to get rid of Maya, she will not let you go free. Mam eva ye prapadyante But a person who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Maya will free him. That nobody will do. In today's newspaper it was reported that Jaya Prakash Narayana met some of his friends in London and he told them everything is "God's will". We say that if "God's will" is final then why don't the leaders find out what God is, and what does God will? That part they skip.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Svamiji Maharaja, It does make a difference. I met Morarji Bhai two times and he was telling me, as I know him since many years…,]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. You always have meetings.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. .. so he was telling that after staying in the jail for nineteen months my faith in God has increased. "How did it increase"? He said I had no hope that I will ever come out of the jail alive. They will release me.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Too old also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He is eighty-two years old also. After coming out he can form the Janta party in a few days.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That was a miracle.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It was a miracle. So I told him that indeed it was a divine miracle. No human could do it. He said "Everything was done by God. I didn't do anything." I said you simply became an instrument. Ultimately the Lord has done everything. If out of pride someone says "I have done it", that's not true. A strange miracle happened. Nobody even thought about it. So in this way his faith in God enhanced so much. Jaya Prakashji also, I met him three days ago and he was also saying "Whatever God wills that will happen. Whatever He says that is final."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The thing is, you are an experienced person, whatever the Supreme Lord had personally instructed, that institution you should keep intact. In politics there is always quarrel. It happened before also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. That will continue to happen.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. But the culture you have got, that you don't sacrifice. You keep it intact. That way not only your country will benefit, but people outside India will also benefit.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. The whole world will benefit.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. At least what I am attempting to do alone, spreading this Krsna Consciousness movement, you kindly keep this institution intact. There is so much harassment for us. We face so much oppression. You can't believe.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Really? Here also something happened.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The amount of oppression we faced here…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Here? In India?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In Bombay.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. In Bombay?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I didn't know that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Still now it is going on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Really?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. This Municipality.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Municipality?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. They caused trouble to us from all sides.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Why? Do they create problem purposely?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Harrassment.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Harrassment?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What else? There is nobody to protect. This is our point. This Police Commissioner, a public officer declared "Hare Krsna I mean, Performance of kirtan is nuisance."]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Nuisance?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. He declared in writing. The temple cannot be built. The Supreme Lord says in Bhagavad-gita, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ [Bg. 9.14] And this public officer, government officer, Police Commissioner says kirtan is nuisance.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Nuisance.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is your government.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I see.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. There was so much difficulty in the beginning to build this temple, to acquire the plot.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. In the foreign country it is more convenient, but in India things are more difficult.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why in the foreign countries people join in wholesale. But here nobody comes, nobody helps.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Here they don't allow. Not to be allowed.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I see, you mean from the government side? It must be from the government.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Even I approached the Governor through another Governor. This Chaddha Renia...]

Giriraja: Chenna Reddy.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Mr. Chenna Reddy, from Hyderabad.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He is our life member, just like you are. He requested the Muslim Governor…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Oh. Nawab Sahab. Nawab Ali Yavar Yang.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He didn't do it. But this Mr. Chavan, he kindly helped, otherwise it would not have been possible.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Oh they think these are C.I.A. agents. They should not be allowed.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You have started a big project in Mayapur. There is no problem there, no?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is not started yet.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Not started yet?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What problem could there be? It's in the village.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It's in the village.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But we have had so much problem here in Bombay that I felt like crying. Still they are giving us trouble.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Still they are causing?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Especially Municipality.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Municipality?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I have no support. What wrong have we done? I am writing books at such an advanced age. I am selling those books all over the world and bringing ten lakh rupees every month and attempting to do something. What's my fault? Tell me? You all are there, kindly protect this.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I didn't know you had to go through so much trouble in our country.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We are meeting you now only. But anyway whom should we tell our plea to?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Who to tell? No, in Wardha you were talking about America. You didn't mention about here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Everywhere it is like this.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Everywhere?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. To kill Prahlada, even his own father was prepared! Prahlada Maharaja and Hiranyakasipu were father and son. So even the father was all set to kill his own son! Forget about others. For others, if there is an enemy then that's another thing. Only five year old boy, and the father became so inimical that he was prepared to kill him.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He tried in so many ways.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is our position. Godless society. We also have God. krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. [SB. 1.3.28] Accept Him. Follow His instructions. man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] [Transl. We simply repeat what Krsna says. We don't manufacture anything. But nobody cares.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. They become so sad that government is not happy despite so much money is coming into our country every day through foreign exchange. They are thinking that all this money is coming for spreading lawlessness here.]

Indian lady: [Transl. They are not thinking that without our flattering money is coming..]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes without our support…]

Indian lady: [Transl. They don't think it's coming through divine arrangement. Simply envious.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Due to our own hard work.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. From hard work, from your publications.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. I went to Dubai and the king offered me the contract for rupees one hundred crore. After all the materials had been shipped from here I went and met the king. After that our counselor from government of India went to the king and said to him that I have heard such and such person had come to you, but he has not come through proper channel. So I would request you not to give him the contract.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Just see! The order of the Indian government!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What's his fault?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. The king told me this that your counselor came and said like this. I said to him "Thank you. I know what I am doing."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why? What is the fault?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. What is the fault?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. what's the fault? People are coming from India, materials are coming from India still..]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They should provide him protection. Did he mention any reason why or just talking?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. No reason.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He didn't come via me. He came directly.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He didn't come through me. He directly approached you. He wanted that he should have talked to the King, take his appointment and then talk to me.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Look, whoever he wants to send, he will send. Everybody wants his own man, it doesn't matter whether the work is done or not. They want their own man. That's all.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He didn't speak to me or anything. As soon as I went there I met him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Didn't give you time?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He did give me an appointment and I met him. But he didn't show any interest. So I went straight to the king and talked to him. He said "Very good" and he offered me the work.]

Indian lady: [Transl. He looked at the tender and checked everything.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He told me to start the work. Just then this person goes to him and tells him "Don't give him work. If anything goes wrong, the government of India will not be responsible." Anyway, it's been two years now. Now he comes to me and requests "I need to meet the king. Please help me. Please help me to get this job done, that job done". I mean this is the attitude. Had it been some other country the counselor would have personally requested the King to give job to his fellowman.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Still the Lord's work must go on. Isn't it?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. We are servants of the Supreme Lord. We must obey His orders. And to do that we face problems. What can be done?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I was saying that my sister went there to visit, this Ravana kidnapped Ramacandraji's Sita, and how much worried the poor Rama became? He searched for Her everywhere in the forest. Finally in due course of time He came out victorious. Krsna too had to run away you see. Finally He went to Dvaraka and found peace. Everyone, all the kings had to fight for whole life, for country etc. This Kamsa and others. They fought for whole life. Ultimately the battle of Mahabharata took place. In that battle He became a chariot driver and as a chariot driver He had to work hard. You take the example of Lord Buddha. It says that at last He was offered sweet rice mixed with glass-powder, poison and thus He was killed. Jesus Christ was also crucified. And Gandhiji was shot dead. So those who work for God, it seems they have to die like that only. But the incarnation of the Supreme Lord, take the example of Prahlada, it is the Lord's pastimes that in all such activities various impediments are always placed. And after the impediments things start to speed up. Muhammed Sahab also…]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. His sons…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No, he was driven out from Mecca and Madina by throwing rocks at him. He was thrown out from there. What a strange pastime!]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. We should find out more truth about this harassment here. What is their problem? So much news appears in the newspapers. May be the top leaders have said something like-anti national activities. I think to build the temple….]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I think some change is required, because the previous government, in the name of secularism, they could not tolerate any religion. But now this new government will not do like that I believe. There must be some change in attitude.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. Apart from that something is needed. Just like Morarji Desai is realising now. You all keep this institution moving. By doing so, you will get benefit, prestige, and by distributing it in the foreign countries India's glory will be enhanced. Is it not?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. It's a great thing. I am sure that no movement other than this has worked so hard in the foreign countries.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Therefore you keep this movement going. We were harassed like anything. How much can we tolerate? And if you come forward and co-operate then so much can be achieved.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, so much can be done. So much work can increase.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Kindly do that. What to do? Nobody comes forward.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. One of you keep in touch with Brahmacariji, about where and what is the difficulty, and I will also speak to Ramakrsnaji. I am really very sad to hear all this. I didn't know anything about all this.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Anyway he will go. If you kindly arrange a meeting.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Do you go?]

Prabhupada: [about Giriraja] You can speak with him in English. He doesn't understand Hindi.

Shriman Narayana: Anyone who can keep us in touch with what the difficulty is, then Ramakrsna Bajaj also will be helpful. I can also be helpful at the higher level. Surely we can help. I was not aware of all of this. [Transl. You had to go through so much difficulty. I didn't know anything at all. I thought you had all the support. This is very sad.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Simply throttling. This police commissioner…] [break]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. This new chief minister is a good person I heard. This Vasantrao Patil who has come, he has interest in these things.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You kindly…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I believe you will get support. And Morarjibhai and others have got immense faith in these things. I don't know whether he is aware of all these things or not, but you have got a center in Delhi, is it not?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. We have a rented place there. We have one in Vrndavana.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, in Vrndavana you have got.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We can open center in each town and village by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. But where is man power? Who will preach? Indian people don't come! And these people have come….I want to make a personal request to you that immediately these people…just like in America they have given me Emigration visa, similarly at least to some persons who are pushing on this movement, we need people, so can't they be granted permanent residence?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They don't give.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They don't give. Can't Morarji arrange something about this? With whom will I work? They come…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They come and then after a few months, they don't get their visa extended.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And in the process I have to waste five to six lakhs rupees yearly. They go back again and come back.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They come back. Perhaps their visas are not extended after three months.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Three and three, six months. Then go back. Go. Go. Go. Go. They have to go back. Government order. You have seen these people with your own eyes. They have nothing to do with politics.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. Yes. They have nothing to do with politics.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And this I will guarantee you that they will not take a single paisa from India. We are bringing ten lakh rupees from there!]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. You bring from abroad.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Still they are not allowed to stay.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They are not allowed to stay. They go and again come back. How much expense just in coming and going! I think the policies of the Indian government so far, I mean of Indira Gandhi, someone might have complained to her that these people are…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. C.I.A.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They are C.I.A. Something like that must be. So the whole policies…they might have sent circular also I believe as you are saying, to the state governments that "be cautious, be careful." I don't know exactly what. But now It can be investigated.]

Indian lady: [Transl. The whole thing should be investigated through legal procedure and present it before public so that nobody from behind can say anything or any doubt can remain in their minds. People always question about law. So Svamiji, let there be a procedure in which…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The procedure has already been discussed in the parliament.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Now the new party has come you see.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Perhaps you know about.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That this Hare Krsna movement receive money from America, from C.I.A. But the minister has denied it saying "We have no information like that." Then they asked "What is the state?" We said "What state? No state." They argued "So how do they meet their expense?" That was also replied.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Everything was replied?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Their source of income is from selling literatures. This is already recorded in the parliament.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Already recorded in the parliament.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Svamiji, because the new party has been formed and started operating...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The government is government. Whether new party comes and goes what difference does it make?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Still…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Record is there.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Record is there. Record can be checked. If there is any inquiry, I think inquiry has been carried out.]

Indian lady: [Transl. You can remind them that inquiry has already been done. So whatever support you can extend, we want your support, like this if you tell them…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh that will take two to four years.]

Indian lady: [Transl. No. If there is any objection then from our side we should…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What objection? Bhagavad-gita as it is, Krsna says clearly. We have got our books, literatures, what else do we do? Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, we follow it. What is there to see? If you keep your eyes closed, what can be done? If someone doesn't want to see how can you show him? One who pretends to sleep nobody can wake him up. These are the difficulties.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Recently I met Atal Bihari Vajpayee who is the foreign minister, He is a very good person. He is well known to me.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Therefore I think whoever is in-charge of your Delhi or Bombay center, I will be in Delhi from 25th to 30th May, I will be there for one week, so if he can provide me all the details as you have just explained about visa problem, every three months they have to renew, any inquiry they have made etc, so that I can talk to him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where will our devotee meet you?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Gandhi Sma…I will give you the address. I will give the address. I live at Gandhi Smarak Nidhi. So that way at least I can speak to him.] [Aside to Giriraja, I will give you address and the telephone number also. Give me a pen.] [Transl. He should bring along all the literatures, give him those and explain to him everything.]

Prabhupada: You can take his telephone number and address. [Trans_You are familiar with them from before, so if you want you can do so much.] And you can also develop that Gandhi asrama, [Vinobha] asrama, just to the point of Bhagavad-gita. That is my request.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. Bhagavad-gita was Gandhiji's whole life. Vinobhaji also...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. But he gave interpretation. That's all.] That is distortion. [Trans_That's what they all do. Now Gandhiji's theory is nonviolence. Where is it in Bhagavad-gita?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Svamiji, you have got so many beautiful pictures, so many publications and so on. I often wish that today's children finish their college, then they find a job, get married, beget children and thus enter into grhastha asrama-society, so if from the very beginning, from the time of garbhadhan...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why we have opened Gurukula. In Vrndavana.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Yes. The knowledge of Bhagavad-gita, and Lord Krsna's pastimes, if presented in a way that is suitable for children...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Young boys…It is meant for young boys only. Is Bhagavad-gita a serious scripture?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Not Bhagavad-gita, but the philosophy…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Philosophy, If you keep your eyes shut, who can show you anything?]

Indian lady: [Transl. No, for boys…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Boys can understand.]

Indian lady: [Transl. In a easy way…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is the old people who misguide them.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Therefore I request you…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is the fault of the old people.]

Indian lady: [Transl. But if you please…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The thing is clear.]

[Transl. Kuruksetra is there. Kuruksetra is dharmaksetra or the place of pilgrimage. Even a boy can understand this, but an old man comes and says Kuruksetra means something else. The old man spoils him. This is the difficulty. Otherwise whatever is written in Bhagavad-gita, even a small boy can understand.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Suppose we go to a bookstall here…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Forget about bookstall. Actually the original texts of Bhagavad-gita, even a small boy can understand. But some old man comes and ruins everything.]

Indian lady: [Transl. I wish you have pictures of young Krsna-Gopala and along with them you explain something….]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What pictures. When the subject is plain and you interpret it in a different way and spoil the whole thing then what the poor fellow will do? Your business is to distort.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It should be understood as it is.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. There is no need for explanation.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where is the need?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Not explanation but through illustrations. Nowadays we have animal pictures, so why not God's pictures?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What illustrations, if you have already ruined his brain then what these illustrations will do?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Bhagavad-gita as it is.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Bhagavad-gita as it is. Yes. What you are saying is correct. It should be understood as it given.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Now the Supreme Lord is saying man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] even a boy can understand it and do it. You bring any boy here in the temple and tell him "Here is God, pay your obeisances to Him," he will do that.]

Indian lady: [Transl. I have a feeling….]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But if you say "This is stone. God is something else. He is not God." Dr. Radhakrsnan said "It is not to Krsna." Finish Him off. And Dr. Radhakrsnan has said, Gandhi has said. Now he is finished for life. What is the difficulty? Is to think of the Supreme Lord always, to offer Him obeisances, and to offer little flower very difficult? But your leader will not allow you to do. He is gone. He is finished for life. This is going on. Then what is the use of showing him pictures? You have already spoiled him.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. They should present it as it is.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Whatever comes from the lotus mouth of the Supreme Lord…actually they don't accept Krsna as Bhagavan or the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Don't accept?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. He is not Bhagavan. Bhagavan is something else. Avajananti mam mūḍha, those who are mūḍhas or fools, they don't accept Krsna as Bhagavan. If you don't accept Bhagavan then why do you interfere with Bhagavan's book? This is our opinion. If you have any theory, then write your own book?] Why do you take Bhagavad-gita? [Transl. You want to smoke hemp, smoke with your own hands! Why through someone else's hands? Use your own hands.] Why this? This is our protest. If you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, you understand as it is. For example, we are talking frankly. [Transl. In your Gandhi asrama you have built, his Gita is your life and soul, in that it is recommended that you worship Gandhi's lantern. [sarcastically laughs]. I don't criticize this is fact. I saw it. [Transl. There is not a single picture of the Supreme Lord! Krsna. And the Supreme Lord says man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] So where is that? All useless.] Simply distortion. What benefit you will get? [Transl. It is clearly stated evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastaḥ paran-tapa. [Bg. 4.2] That parampara or disciplic succession has been lost, therefore the yoga or the knowledge of the Supreme Lord has been lost. What is the use of giving that which has been lost? Rasgulla is there, but it is stale and rotten, so what is the use of feeding it to you? You will become sick! What benefit will you get by consuming rotten stuff? And imam rajarsayo viduh ..It was not meant for the lofar class. It is meant for the big, big saintly kings who run the government. yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21] If the government officers understand this then common men will also understand. But the rajarsis or the leaders don't follow it. They are neither rsi or saintly, nor raja. Sometimes you all become at least raja- Governor etc. so once a while you sit down and work with your intelligence. We did not change anything. Bhagavad-gita as it is.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. That's true.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We did not distort. We didn't compromise with that. We present as it is. The Supreme Lord says mattaḥ parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7] There is no superior authority above Me. We accept it. Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, that's right. What is our difficulty in that? A greatest authority has said something and we accepted it. We haven't had to manufacture anything.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Now people have interpreted Bible here, they interpreted Koran and other books, actually these things are happening in India only.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is very simple for us to follow. The Supreme Lord says man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] And we teach, here is God. This is God's Deity form, you offer your obeisances to Him, and perform kirtan. They do it. So there is no difficulty for us. It is going on nicely.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You have accomplished much more than all the others.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Result must be more than others.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. This Gita…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Because there is no adulteration, no distortion.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Nobody could accomplish so fast. What you have done in ten years.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This fact people should understand. We present Bhagavad-gita as it is. We don't make any change. How dare I change the words of God? Is God my child? If Kuruksetra meant something else, then is God foolish not to mention it? We have to explain it? Just see? Why do you do like that?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Presenting one's own view…]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. In the name of God…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, in the name of God.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is cheating. Then how will you be successful?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. And those who read, they become confused.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's all.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. How many Gitas should we read? This view, that view, and someone else's view.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But nobody cares for Bhagavan's view. [laughs] So greatly learned that "Forget Bhagavan's view and present lofar class view!"]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No, if they want to write, then let them write their own new book?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Write your own philosophy. Everyone has a right. Why do you misinterpret Bhagavan's view?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. There is no problem for that. Why in His name?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. By doing like that our country has been spoiled. And no welfare for others in the world has been done. Now we have started it. You all kindly extend co-operation. Morarji is little God realised. You explain to him little about us. If possible, some of us can meet him once and explain to him. But one thing…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. First let someone come to me with the literatures.] To Giriraja: You understand what I am saying? Somebody should come with the literature….

Giriraja: Right. Yes.

Sriman Narayana: …the literature. Not the whole book, or the book, but some basic literature with a catalog of difficulties which are being faced from the government side. Then it will be easier. [Transl. I meet Morarjibhai every now and then. So if you come then I will arrange a meeting with him. He is a devotee of Bhagavan.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. I know that.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He has got so much faith in these things.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Only some misunderstanding…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Might be some misunderstanding of the central government, but now that will be cleared.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please come. Sit down.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Did you meet him before or not?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. No. Today only.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He is Baijubhai Patel. There is one Institution called Gandhi Siksan Bhavan here in Juhu. There is training college etc. which he runs.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I am the President of Akhil Bharat Naitarin Samiti[?] and he is the Secretary. As a Secretary he extends me so much support. Anyway, I took so much time of yours.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not at all. Give Prasad. Make arrangement.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. First of all your health should improve.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, it is an old machine. No matter how much you repair, it will continue to remain in disorder. But our work will not stop.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Not stop. It will go on.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The translation of book which I write at night, the real work, that is going on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You are planning to go to Kashmir in a few days time, is it not?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where do you recommend?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. That's a good place. The climate is good and will be conducive for your health.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. everyone suggests…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. Shrinagar, or some place nearby. Shrinagar will be hot.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not hot. It is cold there.]

Indian man: [Transl. Gulmarg is good.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Gulmarg or Pehelgaon.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Pehelgaon will also be crowded.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I want to go to such a place where I will feel hungry, so that I can eat something. I am unable to eat anything. That's why I am becoming weak.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You don't feel hungry? I see. But how is the water there? Is water good there?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Shrinagar water is hard. It comes from the hills.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. How about Chashma Shahi? In that case Dehradun or Mussoorie would be better. Water from these places…]

Indian lady: [Transl. Mussoorie is not so lovely.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. There is no good water in Mussoorie.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water should be suitable to health.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Mussoorie water is good.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Loveliness, I have seen enough by traveling around the globe more than ten times.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. That's true.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Wherever you feel comfortable…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Wherever you feel comfortable and the water is good so that you will feel hungry.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Like that Shimla is also a nice place.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water from above the hills should be conducive.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water from any crowded place won't be good.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Wherever is more favorable to you, you go there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. He thinks Shimla is better?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Near Mussoorie. But water…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water has to be good. Wherever good water is available…]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. How is Panchmarhi? Panchmarhi?]

Indian lady: [Transl. No. No.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh or little up Uttarakasi, this side.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see. Haridvara?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Haridvara-Rishikesh.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Haridvara. Little above Haridvara. Haridvara should be a good place. The water should be nice there. Rishikesh would be better than Haridvara.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Rishikesh would be better. Miraben and others…]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water is good there.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water is good there.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Gahgajal.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Gahgajal.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Good water.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Pure water. On the bank of Gahgaji, Rishikesh is a good place. Haridvara, Rishikesh, and if you go a little up towards Uttarakasi…]

Indian lady: [Transl. Towards Joshimath.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. If you get Gahgajal, I think that would be very nice to you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Pure Gahgajal.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Pure Gahgajal.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is available there only.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Only there. And that will be good for your health.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes! Gahgajal is great! patita uddharini gahge or Gahga is the deliverer of the fallen.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You kindly go to any place near the Ganges.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. May be little higher than Rishikesh.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Little above Rishikesh like Uttarakasi.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Joshimath has also been developed I heard.]

Indian man: [Transl. Where is Gahga in Joshimath?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No. Gahgajal. Near the Ganges if possible. Once I also became very sick when I was the general secretary of the Congress party. That time I stayed on the bank of the Ganges at Rishikesh, that place where Miraben-that Britisher stayed, what you call Madeleine Slade…]

Indian lady: [Transl. Pashulok.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Pashulok. I stayed at that place for fifteen days within a cottage. So every morning I used to drink Gahga water there, take bath and perform my bhajan. It was there where I studied Bhagavad-gita and Upanisads.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sattvika life.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Completely sattvika life. My father was with me. Within fifteen days, it was a miracle.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Really?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I didn't go anywhere else. I simply roamed around there. I bathed in Gahga, I drank Gahga water.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Take little Prasada.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. We should take away. How can we take so much? Too much!]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You distribute among yourselves.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. We will distribute among us.]

Indian lady: [Transl. How could take here?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Bring plates for everybody.]

Indian lady: [Transl. We will share it among us from this only. We can't take so much.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As you please.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. We will do like this. We will partake little from this as Prasada.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. As Prasada. Not too much.] Rishikesh this side, from the hill point of view, will be better than Kashmir.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water from Shrinagar will not suit you.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Water is not good in Shrinagar.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It's dirty also. As per your digestion and health condition some place on the bank of Gahga above or in Rishikesh would be good for you.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Rishikesh is a good place. It's not too high also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Rishikesh is very good.]

Prabhupada: Bhogilalji, he has got his house near Rishikesh?

Giriraja: Yeah. I think near Haridvara.

Prabhupada: So Shriman Narayanaji recommends there.

Sriman Narayana: Rishikesh will be much better.

Prabhupada: He is there now?

Giriraja: Ah, I'm not sure.

Prabhupada: So his son is there.

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: You can bring one blank.

Giriraja: The empty plate, yes.

Prabhupada: What they cannot take.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. We will take from this only. Little bit.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please have some.] It will be very great pleasure.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Not here. We will not trouble you. We will go outside and take from this.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. You sit down and take here only.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. [laughs] Take here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It will give me pleasure. I have no appetite. I cannot eat.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. We will do like this. We will take as much as we want from this. We should not waste.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Prasada you should honor up to here. [Showing up to throat] Everyone laughs) Akantha. prasade sarva-duḥkhanam hanir asyopajayate [Bg 2.65] Yesterday one kirtan party came here. About three, four hundred people came. It was ecstatic.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Three, four hundred people?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, and they were given Prasada. We advertise that you all come, take Prasada and perform kirtan.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Do kirtan.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Everything else we will do. We will beg money from all over the world. No problem for us. And we do bring money. Who will give ten lakhs rupees in India?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. About ten lakh rupees worth of literatures you sell every day! That's a great job! The literatures that you sell like Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and so on…]

Prabhupada: Daily five to six lakhs.

Sriman Narayana: Five to six lakhs net income. Profit. Net income.

Prabhupada: Not net income. Sale proceeds.

Sriman Narayana: Sale, sale.

Indian lady: [Transl. Sale.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I bring ten lakh rupees every month. To spend here.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. From there? To spend? That goes for donation?]

Prabhupada: Not donation. Sales proceeds from my books.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Sales proceeds. That means ten lakh rupees per month income.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. At least.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. At least. From that everything is being built and things are going on.]

Indian lady: [Transl. All projects are…]

Niranjana: Most of the books are sold in America or the Western countries or in our country as well?

Prabhupada: Mostly in western countries.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Mostly they are sold in the western countries.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who buys here?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Who will buy here?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Here also people buy with respect.] All universities, libraries, professors, they take it.

Giriraja: [to guests] Is there anything you can't take? [referring to prasada leftovers]

Sriman Narayana: Whatever we want to take we take in this...

Prabhupada: [Transl. No…]

Giriraja: I mean don't want to take.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please take Mataji. Prasada, there is no harm in taking more.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Svamiji, what time do you take your evening Prasada?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Just once I eat little bit. And at night sometimes I drink little milk. That too once or twice a month. This is the difficulty that I cannot eat.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You cannot eat.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. May be by going to Rishikesh things will improve.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I think you must go to the bank of Gahga. In Kashmir it will be crowded, dirty, and the water is not suitable.]

Prabhupada: So I can, we think Rishikesh we can go very easily.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Water will be good in Rishikesh.]

Giriraja: All right.

Prabhupada: This time is very good. So let us arrange for that.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It might be little warm during the day but…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's not a problem.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Morning and evening is cool. Water is good, air is pure there.]

Prabhupada: So let us go there.

Indian lady: [Transl. During the day you can put up a cooler or something.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No need of air cooler or anything.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Gahga river bank itself makes a lot of difference.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Makes a huge difference.] [pause]

Prabhupada: So for all your difficulties, you approach Sriman Narayana. He is the right person.

Giriraja: We got the IOD today.

Prabhupada: I see. Then should begin. Build up. [Transl. For example, let me explain to you a difficulty. This plot was previously divided into many parts owned by different persons. At that time, the Municipality demarked a 10ft wide land as a public road. Okay. Later on another person bought it all.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Bought it?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. The one we have now. Because a single person bought it, it became a private property. We bought that land from him. Now the Municipality is adamantly claiming that it is public property. That demarked portion of the land belongs to public. When it was divided in parts, there could have been a public road. But now it is owned by a single person. So where is the question of a public road?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. A public road within the campus?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There is no need to have one at all.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No question about it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Within the campus what is the use of a public road?] Everything belongs to us. So that question they have now set aside? That road?

Giriraja: Well, they're waiting for us to make an official application. But on this IOD, the condition was there that we have to hand over that 10 ft. But that was crossed out.

Prabhupada: Then we can begin. That's all right.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Do you have a legal expert?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We have no expert.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. To know the law and legal procedures requires…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Only these young boys.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. They do everything. [Aside: Did you see Baijubhai, how there is always obstacle in the path of good work. They give so much trouble, this Police department and Municipality.]

Baijubhai: [Transl. Before also there was some problem here. The Municipal Counselor created problem.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. The local Counselor from here?]

Baijubhai: [Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He is still causing.]

Baijubhai: [Transl. Still it is going on.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. That same person is in-charge now?]

Baijubhai: [Transl. Look, I live here just adjacent to this place.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes, he resides nearby. Why does the Counselor create problem?]

Baijubhai: [Transl. This Mhatre who lives here, he doesn't like all this.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. These people are saying that the local Police Commissioner has given in writing that the kirtan they perform is nuisance, public nuisance. [laughs]]

Baijubhai: [Transl. The construction in the Nadia district of West Bengal is complete?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's a village only.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Mayapur? Bengal. It's a big project. About two hundred crore rupees project. They were saying, no electric, no petrol there. Only bullock cart, cows, cow-dung gas is used for lighting. Industries. Village industries, just like the ancient traditional way. That is the plan. Is it not?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. As the way Gandhi wanted the village program, we want to do like that. That you live in the village, be satisfied, eat sufficiently, remain healthy, and chant the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That's all.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. No problem. You earn by your own labor.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The Supreme Lord is advising annad bhavanti bhūtani-annad bhavanti bhūtani parjanyad anna-sambhavaḥ yajnad bhavati parjanyo. [Bg 3.14] But they have stopped the performance of yajna. You understand? The Supreme Lord has pointed out each and every reason. You perform yajna, you will receive sufficient rainfall in time. You grow food grains in the fertile land as much as you want. You eat nicely and chant the holy name of the Supreme Lord. This is Gita solution.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Take care of the cows and you will get an abundance of milk.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Go-raksa or cow protection.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Go-raksa.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. But your government law says "Protect cow as long as she gives milk then slaughter her." The Supreme Lord did not say that. The Lord said go-raksa at any condition. The cow is so important that if she just passes stool and urine, still it is beneficial. That is why the Supreme Lord has particularly said go-raksa. Those who want to eat meat they can eat the flesh of hog or dog. The Lord didn't say "Suar-raksa" or hog protection. Dog-raksa. Eat. But why "go" or cow? Now in this land of Bharat-varsa, in the land of Bhagavad-gita, go-hatya or cow slaughter is going on instead of cow protection. Where is interpretation? What is the interpretation? Answer?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. The resolution that Vinobhaji made, in that he put utmost stress on cow protection. Not bull. The cow…let us see what law they make about this.]

Prabhupada: No. Go-raksa in any condition. This is as it is. Why you amend? That is our protest. [Transl. When the Supreme Personality of Godhead said krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam. [Bg 18.44] Then cultivate land and give protection to the cows. He didn't say "Animal protection, hog protection, dog protection. If anyone wants to eat meat then eat these, but don't touch cows.] That is following Gita. We want that. As it is. [Transl. The Supreme Lord says "Protect cow".] This is following Gita. [Transl. That is not happening, rather cow killing is going on. No. No. Please don't do that. You are… [laughs]]

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Would they like to wash their hands?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can wash. There is basin. You can wash. [Transl. No, you don't…]

Giriraja: Here is the wash basin.

Prabhupada: No, if you want to wash your hands, you can. [Transl. Leave the dishes.]

Indian lady: [Transl. I will wash the dish.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There is not enough water here to wash dishes. Just wash your hands.] [Aside, as guests wash their hands.] Hmm. So for any difficulty you can approach Sriman Narayana. He can do. He is connected with so many people. All the big, big men. You have taken his address?

Giriraja and Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Prasada must be given. That will make them thick and thin. Don't neglect. If one takes prasadam, he will become thick and thin.

Tamala Krsna: Tell them they should go out through this door.

Prabhupada: [indistinct comments to Giriraja] [Transl. Sit down Mataji.]

Baijubhai: [Transl. Now they are going to college for some inspection.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Indian lady: [Transl. He is taking us. We are just going nearby to Teacher's training college.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You come again at least, no?]

Indian lady: [Transl. Sure. When do you plan to go?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not decided yet.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Not decided. No problem. We will surely come.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You must come. This temple is built for all of you. What we need? The only difficulty is this Mhatre has caused. What is our fault?]

Indian lady: [Transl. You are taking about the road? I will be taken care of.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In every way, somehow or other he tries to harass us. What is this? sarpaḥ kruraḥ khalaḥ kruraḥ, sarpat krutaraḥ khala, there are two kinds of cruel. One is snake and the other is a cheater. But a cheater is more dangerous than the snake, because a snake can be charmed by mantras whereas a crooked person cannot be brought under control. sarpat krutaraḥ khalaḥ mantrausadhivasah sarpam khalaḥ kena nivaryyate. [Canakya Panḍita.] [break]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I am familiar with the Mayor of the corporation, or the chief minister and so on.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You must be.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. So I will speak to them and you keep in touch with them. And about the Indian government issue, that I will take care.]

Prabhupada: [to Giriraja: Do you understand what he is saying?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: For Indian government, he will help you.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. I will help.]

Prabhupada: For local, he will help. For they are our well-wishers. So we approach these two persons for all difficulties.

Sriman Narayana: Yes. We should be kept in touch what the difficulties are.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You kindly talk to them.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I can talk to Morarjibhai, Atal bihari Vajpayee who is foreign minister, I have very good relationship with him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Some protection should be given to us.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Why not? If not for good work then what's the use?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This harassment…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I think the previous government which was in power, that of Indira Gandhi, they were pro-communists. This Rajni Patel of this place and others, they were all communist. They could not tolerate the name of religion. Now the atmosphere has changed. Now communist people's reign has turned upside down. So they need to be properly informed. Until the order comes from the higher authority to the lower authority, they will keep looking into the old files.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So we will submit everything to you. What else? You see.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. If there is any problem or something, then I will have them take out the file and clear it out.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. One point I would like to bring to your kind notice that we have a big organisation and we require at least twenty-five to thirty persons to manage each center. So in five, six places if they allow permanent residentship to about one hundred people…]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Should let them stay.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This will be a great favour.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. It's very important.]

Prabhupada: So immediately we can do this.

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. What is there is there? Your people are good. What is the problem?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That in our mission they may be provided permanent residentship. If anyone is found faulty then he can be deported. With this condition.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Can be deported. If there is any complain against anybody…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They will not take a single paisa from India for their maintenance.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You receive money from abroad.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. With this condition if you can do something please.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I believe there will be no problem now as the new government has come to power. People like Atal Bihari Vajpayee are religious minded. Morarjibhai also. Previously they were not pious at all.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All were raksasas.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. These communists people cannot even tolerate the name of religion. This…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are all Godless.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Cannot tolerate righteousness. You know how they used to write about foreigners as C.I.A. I think some kind of circular has come from the higher authority. And that circular becomes like an ultimate order for them. The government of India has said "Keep away from them". So everywhere they will cause trouble. That circular has to be changed. So if it is changed from above then many difficulties will automatically go away. So if one of your men meets me in Delhi then I will help him. And in Bombay I will talk to Ramakrsnaji and he will help you completely. And my request to you is that you please go to Rishikesh.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That we will arrange.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. If your residence will be on the bank of Gahga then certainly you will be benefitted.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Is there any person who has his own house or something in Rishikesh? Do you know anyone?]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. Dalmiaji has got.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Dalmiaji has got, Jayadayala has got. There are so many Asramas in Rishikesh.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Does Jayadayalaji have?]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Jayadayalaji also has.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He is known to me.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Jayadayalaji has got. His house is located at a very nice place.]

Mr. Bharat: [Transl. He will arrange everything.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. He will arrange everything. Jayadayalaji will arrange. Surely.]

Prabhupada: [to Giriraja: Contact Jayadayalaji. He has his house.

Sriman Narayana: You contact Jayadayala Dalmia, he will make arrangements. He has lot of influence in that area. His own house. [Transl. Otherwise he will arrange for you somewhere else.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Contact Jayadayalaji.]

Indian lady: [Transl. We can contact that person you know from Vrndavana also.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. That we will see later. I will talk to him later. So if you go there surely you will…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I can go now. If I get a place I will go right now. I will have to improve my health first.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. That's very important. You will start feeling hungry and the air…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You have got practical experience.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. Yes. Within fifteen days I felt so much difference. I stayed here in Juhu for one month, but there was no improvement. When I became sick I came to Juhu and there was no difference in my health condition. But there within fifteen days so much difference I felt.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Very kind of you.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. You gave us so much time.]

Indian lady: [Transl. Your mercy. We got your darsana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are very merciful.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. I was going to leave by offering my obeisances to you from a distance as to not give you trouble.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not at all. You came that's great. Please pay little attention to us. Struggling so much.]

Sriman Narayana: [Transl. So I take your leave.]

Prabhupada: Jaya.

[Shriman Narayan and his associates leave.]

Tamala Krsna: Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony.

Prabhupada: Now immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Rishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.

Tamala Krsna: Or Bhogilal.

Prabhupada: Then we haven't got to go to Kashmir.

[Shriman Narayan and his associates leave]

Tamala Krsna: Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony.

Prabhupada: So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Rishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.

Tamala Krsna: Or Bhogilal.

Prabhupada: Then we haven't got to go Kashmir.

Tamala Krsna: So first we'll contact Bhogilal, because he's in the city. If he cannot arrange, then we'll immediately contact Jayadal. Yeah, they're such close friends...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...they'll immediately do.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: And Rishikesh is known to be very good. Gahga is there.

Prabhupada: So we can go there immediately. That decided.

Tamala Krsna: All right, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Rishikesh is appealing. To drink Ganges water...

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: ...and take bathing in the Ganges.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I immediately feel attracted to going there...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...'cause it's a holy city. These other places were not so... This Rishikesh is holy city.

Prabhupada: It is nearer.

Tamala Krsna: So tomorrow I'm going into the city, anyway. I'll go and meet either Bhogilal or Pranlal. I have nice acquaintance with them, so I can meet them. Even if Bhogilal is not here, Pranlal is here.

Prabhupada: One of them can...

Tamala Krsna: He can do also.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: So I'll make arrangements. Dr. Sharma is waiting for me, Srila Prabhupada, so...

Prabhupada: All right, you go now.

Tamala Krsna: I should attend.

Prabhupada: You are free. Hare Krsna. [end]