Room Conversation

October 26, 1977, Vrndavana
(Hamsaduta leading loud kirtana in background)
Prabhupada: So this makara-dhvaja, I think not acting.
Tamala Krsna: It's not acting? How can you tell so soon?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: How can you tell so soon? How are you able to tell so soon after taking? Wouldn't it take a few days to feel the results?
Prabhupada: Things are deteriorating.
Tamala Krsna: You can feel that? You can feel things deteriorated? In what respect, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Weakness.
Tamala Krsna: Weakness.
Bhavananda: But, Srila Prabhupada, you've been sitting up now for almost forty-five minutes.
Satadhanya: I think this is the first time that Your Divine Grace has sat up for such a long time.
Bhavananda: And also this morning you were making effort to move your legs, which you've never done since I've been here. I was thinking... Of course... Just from my observation, I was thinking that you were feeling a little bit stronger today. And Satadhanya Maharaja also thought that you were appearing to be stronger. Usually you're not able to sit up for such a long period of time, and you're sitting up by yourself. Usually you lean on my hand for support. But this morning you're...
Satadhanya: In fact, we all said the same thing.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Satadhanya: We all were thinking the same thing, that you look stronger, a little bit.
Bhavananda: And also, Srila Prabhupada, your suggestion that you wanted to go on parikrama, we also thought, was an indication that you must be feeling a little stronger. In initial stage of taking this medicine it has to take some time before it even can begin to equalize a deteriorating situation, what to speak of making positive gains in strength. The medicine first has to act to stop the deterioration. Even that takes some time. Then, once it's equalized and maintain that, then it will work to build the body. If you're feeling, though, that you're deteriorating condition, then perhaps we shouldn't go on the parikrama this morning.
Prabhupada: No, parikrama I shall go.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? You expected to immediately get some result by taking this makara-dhvaja?
Prabhupada: I am already puzzled? Mixed-up.(?)
Tamala Krsna: You said you're puzzled, Srila Prabhupada? You said you're puzzled?
Prabhupada: Atreya Rsi?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I am puzzled.
Tamala Krsna: If you continue to desire to live, Srila Prabhupada... If you continue to desire to live, then Krsna will fulfill your desire.
Prabhupada: In this condition I do not wish to live.
Panca-dravida: The purpose of this medicine, though, Srila Prabhupada, is to cure the condition.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Panca-dravida: The purpose of this medicine is to cure this condition and bring you back to good health. It's not to continue in this bad condition but to bring you to a good condition. That is our hope, that you will regain your strength. There is an English saying that "The night is the most dark right before the dawn." So now you are feeling this way. We are hoping that very soon the medicine will take some effect, and then you'll begin to feel stronger.
Tamala Krsna: I was thinking yesterday that... You had wanted to go all over the world once again to strengthen our society. I was just thinking that since you're not going, the society is coming here to be with you. And simply by being with you everybody is becoming stronger. Simply by contacting you, taking care of you, helping to take care of you, they're all advancing in Krsna consciousness. And I think that anyone who has your association, Srila Prabhupada, will never fall away from Krsna consciousness. And you're also instructing and translating every day. For the first time, devotees are allowed to be near you while you're translating and hear you speak. I don't think your existence has no value. There's so much value even now.
Panca-dravida: If the devotees are staying away, it is not because you are poisonous. It is because we are poisonous. I know due to my sinful habits I am so poisonous that when I'm in your presence I feel so contaminated and unworthy of being in the sight of such a person as yourself that I feel that I should be in some corner hiding like some... I am so impure that I cannot stand in front of you. It is not because I feel that you are poisonous, Srila Prabhupada. I am poisonous.
Atreya Rsi: That's very true, Srila Prabhupada.
Panca-dravida: You are a pure devotee of Krsna, and your whole life is simply dedicated to the propagation of Krsna's teachings all over the world, whereas my whole life is simply dedicated to sense gratification. So therefore, when I come in front of a person such as yourself, I feel ashamed.
Bhavananda: It is true, Srila Prabhupada, that if you lose your desire to remain here, then no medicine can be effective. But if you desire to remain, then the medicine can become effective.
Prabhupada: No, in this way to remainnot desirable. Every day, crisis.
Bhavananda: That is the crisis.
Tamala Krsna: That is the puzzlement. [break]
Bhavananda: ...we have to appraise that if Your Divine Grace leaves us, what will be the result both to ISKCON society, to each of you disciples individually, and to the entire planet.
Prabhupada: That I am thinking, that such a big society, the aims and object may be dismantled. I am thinking from that vision.
Bhavananda: Last May, when everyone assembled here in Vrndavana, then that... What was his name? Goswami came? Atula-krsna Goswami. And after he left, you had apprised us of the fact that there is a movement to, if you should leave, to take the society from us, the properties. And you told us at that time, "You are all children. None of you has any intelligence." That was only five months back. We have not grown that much in five months. We're still children. You have always practically directed us in every one of our activities. And where we followed your instructions, there we have been successful. But because we are only children, sometimes we...
Prabhupada: What is the time now?
Tamala Krsna: What is the time?
Atreya Rsi: Eight o'clock.
Prabhupada: And still it is dark?
Panca-dravida: No, the drapes are closed.
Tamala Krsna: It's not dark, but it's not...
Bhavananda: Sun is not up full.
Satadhanya: Sun is not strong yet.
Tamala Krsna: The sun only rises at about a quarter to seven now. It used to rise at like five-thirty. That's why arati now is at five o'clock instead of four-fifteen.
Prabhupada: So it is not possible to have parikrama now?
Tamala Krsna: If you desire, anything is possible, Srila Prabhupada.
Hamsaduta: It's not that cold outside. It's possible.
Prabhupada: If it is possible, why not do it?
Tamala Krsna: Okay.
Prabhupada: So you can bring some sweater.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, we'll give you warm clothing, sweater and hat. Just tell Upendra to come, Satadhanya.
Prabhupada: Sweater and cap.
Panca-dravida: For me, Srila Prabhupada, the biggest puzzle is... I know nobody can understand the activities of a pure Vaisnava such as yourself, but when I see you unhappy, I become very disturbed. To me that is the biggest puzzle, is to... I want to see you happy.
Tamala Krsna: If you keep trying, Srila Prabhupada, to survive...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: If you continue to try to survive, then Krsna will definitely fulfill your desire.
Prabhupada: In this condition, how I can desire to survive?
Tamala Krsna: You have to get some improvement first of all.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: There should be some improvement. Then desiring becomes easier. (to Upendra:) No.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Upendra says, "Do you want to first wash your face and teeth before going to the temple?"
Prabhupada: Wash.
Atreya Rsi: Srila Prabhupada, last week one package was sent here, via Bombay, for Your Divine Grace, of fruit from the palace, from the king's palace in Tehran. And also there was a letter sent which... I don't know... It did not come.
Tamala Krsna: No, nothing came.
Atreya Rsi: The fruit came. It was the pomegranate and lemon.
Tamala Krsna: Dayananda brought it.
Bhavananda: No, before then. The fruit came.
Atreya Rsi: And the letter wished you good health by the royal family.
Prabhupada: No, preaching also, it is going on. I know that. Where is the cotton sweater?
Panca-dravida: We brought one sweater from Peru, Srila Prabhupada. [break] (loud kirtana)
Prabhupada: I'm not tired.
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I am not tired.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I am quite comfortable.
Trivikrama: We are also feeling refreshed.
Tamala Krsna: So this parikrama can be gradually increased, Srila Prabhupada. If you like, we can take you around every day, and even, if you like, sometime we can take you around Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Svarupa Damodara: Today is also purnima, Maharaja?
Hari-sauri: Today is Rasa-purnima.
Panca-dravida: And tomorrow begins Karttika.
Tamala Krsna: So Karttika is the proper time for parikrama.
Prabhupada: Yes. Tell the... [break] So my suggestion for parikrama last night...
Svarupa Damodara: Is successful.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs)
Bhavananda: Whenever we follow your instructions, Srila Prabhupada, we always meet with success.
Prabhupada: So, when there is sunshine, if you take me up, and I'll remain in sunshine.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Today we'll begin that.
Prabhupada: There is no need of lying down in one place.
Svarupa Damodara: It will also be better, Srila Prabhupada. There'll be more oxygen, in the open air. [break]
Panca-dravida: ...disciples are very excited now.
Prabhupada: I am also excited.
Devotees: Jaya!
Prabhupada: I had no difficulty. You could circumambulate more.
Tamala Krsna: We weren't sure how you were feeling.
Prabhupada: I was quite comfortable.
Svarupa Damodara: Going little slowly, Srila Prabhupada? Going little slowly would be better? It was a little fast today.
Panca-dravida: Go slower?
Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada? Bhakti-caru has made some nice orange juice. Would you like to sit up for that? [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...and everything.
Bhavananda: I'd like to go and shave. May I be permitted to go?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: I'd like to go and shave. [break]
Panca-dravida: Srila Prabhupada, on this purnima you look like a fresh lotus flower. [break]
Prabhupada: There is no harm, but if once is good, why twice?
Bhavananda: Satadhanya Maharaja, the kaviraja said something to you about the dosage?
Satadhanya: The kaviraja said that the dosage should be two times a day.
Bhavananda: Did he say why?
Satadhanya: Because the other kavirajas previously, the doses that they suggested were very large. So this kaviraja said they were too large. So this dose is quite smaller compared to the others. He said it should be done twice a day. This is only... Each dose is only two ratis. But the other kavirajas, they were even saying up to one tola.
Tamala Krsna: Not per day.
Prabhupada: (laughing) Not one tola.
Satadhanya: They were saying some large...
Tamala Krsna: No, one tola, not per day.
Prabhupada: (laughing) That was wrongly inter... Nobody can... Anyway, let us see for some days, one.
Tamala Krsna: Okay.
Bhavananda: Bhakti-caru, Prabhupada only wants to take the makara-dhvaja once a day, in the morning. How do you feel about that?
Bhakti-caru: Whatever Srila Prabhupada says, that's... [break]
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bhavananda: He said if you desire to only have it once, it must be Krsna's direction. [break]
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada has taken 275 grams total-100 grams of the soup, 75 grams of that papaya, 100 grams of orange juice. [break]
Svarupa Damodara: It's Svarupa Damodara. I don't know if this will be proper or not, but I got a telegram from family in Manipur saying that the grandfather expired, and so they want me come back for few days to do the ceremonial rites. So do you think shall I go for a few days, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: It is necessary?
Svarupa Damodara: It is not absolutely necessary.
Prabhupada: Those who are engaged in Krsna's service, they have no necessity for all this. Sarvatmana yah saranam saranyam parihrtya kartam.
devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam
na kinkaro nayam rni ca rajan
sarvatmana yah saranam saranyam
gato mukundam parihrtya kartam
[SB 11.5.41]
Anyone who is fully engaged in Krsna's service, he has no other duty. He has finished all other duties. Tepus tapas te [SB 3.33.7]. This is the injunction of the sastra. He's no more anyone's servant, or he has got any duty to do-saranam saranyambecause he has taken the shelter of the ultimate Supreme Person. This is the injunction of the sastra. So this sraddha ceremony is not required for a devotee fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Krsna. Gato mukundam saranam saranyam. Saranyam: He is the only shelter. And who has taken shelter of Krsna, he has no other duty. This is the sastra. Yes. [break]... You now give. (drinks) [break]
Bhavananda: Prabhupada just asked where it was.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. Locked in the almirah. Locked in your almirah.
Prabhupada: Why?
Tamala Krsna: Well, because it's valuable. I wanted to make sure it was not lost or anything. I mean, this medicine is going to save your life, Srila Prabhupada, so I consider it most valuable.
Prabhupada: Bring one...
Tamala Krsna: You want some more medicine?
Bhavananda: He wants to see the color. [break]
Prabhupada: Bruises are here, but this is not? You see there.
Bhavananda: The bruises? Where are you feeling them most? On your feet, Srila Prabhupada, or your legs?
Prabhupada: Here.
Bhakti-caru: He said legs.
Bharadvaja: On both legs?
Prabhupada: Svarna-sindhu.
Bharadvaja: There's maybe a mirror. He can...
Tamala Krsna: Did you see it? Were you able to see just now? (turns Prabhupada over)
Prabhupada: Not like that.
Tamala Krsna: Bring... There's a mirror on my trunk.
Prabhupada: One dose.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, it's very little.
Prabhupada: That's all right. [break] Old kaviraja?
Tamala Krsna: No, no. This is from the new kaviraja.
Prabhupada: And what is this?
Tamala Krsna: This mirror?
Prabhupada: Mirror!?
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) No. I was just using this mirror to show you the medicine.
Bharadvaja: Can you see it?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Bhavananda: The kaviraja said because the gold is oxidized into gold sulphur... [break]
Prabhupada: ...preparation, svarna-sindhu.
Prabhupada: Not makara-dhvaja.
Tamala Krsna: What?
Prabhupada: Svarna-sindhu.
Satadhanya: That is not makara-dhvaja. It is.
Prabhupada: Makara-dhvaja is also. That is... My father used to take.
Bhavananda: Oh. Prabhupada's father used to take makara-dhvaja.
Tamala Krsna: Your father used to take that svarna-sindhu?
Prabhupada: No, makara-dhvaja. The svarna-sindhu is cheaper.
Tamala Krsna: That svarna-sindhu must be for people who do not have very much money.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: This makara-dhvaja is the rich man's medicine.
Bharadvaja: Is it the same kind of medicine?
Satadhanya: Similar.
Bharadvaja: The svarna-sindhu is also similar in effect, for medicine, as medicine?
Prabhupada: That I do not know. [break] If I can continue this parikrama, that is spiritual cure. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Then we can enlarge the parikrama path. Can we take you some time all around Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: Why not?
Tamala Krsna: What about to Govardhana?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: This is very, very nice weather now.
Brahmananda: Yes, it's beautiful weather, fantastic weather.
Tamala Krsna: We will make a palanquin, special palanquin, you see, which will have a bed in it. It will be very nice. And it will have curtains. When you want, the curtains can come down or they can come up. And it will be full length, so you can recline very comfortably. And we will make a camp. We will go by foot all the way.
Prabhupada: Very good idea. If I die then, it will be a great luck.
Tamala Krsna: And if you live it will be also great luck.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jivo va maro va.
Trivikrama: For us it will be greater luck if you live.
Prabhupada: Yes, I want also. What is that?
Bhavananda: He was trying... The... [break]
Prabhupada: ...parikrama was liven to them. Eh?
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Trivikrama: This parikrama is very enthusiastic.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: ...krama you can increase.
Trivikrama: Must increase.
Prabhupada: Then you have to make a stretcherlike bed?
Tamala Krsna: Well, it won't be exactly like a stretcher. It will be more just like the great kings used to ride in. It will be a palanquin, but full length. It will be just like about half the size of this bed, the same as this bed but half as wide. Six people can carry. Four or six people. At least four men will carry it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: And we can pitch camp. We can go few miles, stop. And we don't have to come back here every day. It's not difficult.
Prabhupada: Then you have to arrange for campment previously.
Tamala Krsna: Arrange for?
Bhavananda: Campment beforehand.
Tamala Krsna: Previously, ahead of time, yes. Or we could come back every day. The only thing I don't like about doing that, if we stay with someone else, then it is too much botheration for Your Divine Grace. I know that, because everyone will want darsana. My idea was to camp... Not to camp where there was any place, but to camp on our own, in the field or wherever. Bring some tents, set up the tent.
Prabhupada: Not to advertise.
Tamala Krsna: No. I don't want to advertise. And I was thinking not to stay at anybody else's temple. To stay on our own. Then no one will disturb.
Prabhupada: Yes. All right.
Tamala Krsna: Or we can go and bring your car and come back every day.
Prabhupada: No. This camping is very...
Tamala Krsna: Very nice. So shall we arrange for it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [break] Syama-kunda, Govardhana, Barsana, Nandagrama, Brahma-ghata, all these places. Remember when we went bathing in that... I think it was Brahma-ghata. You bathed. We will go there again. All around Vrndavana. See all the Deities of Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Very good idea.
Tamala Krsna: And ecstatic kirtana.
Bhavananda: Perhaps it might be a good idea to begin at Radha-Damodara.
Prabhupada: Hm? Begin?
Tamala Krsna: He's saying we should also go to Radha-Damodara. Bhavananda was saying we should start from there. As you started from there, so the parikrama start from there. First we will do parikrama of the Vrndavana area, local area. One day we can go... We can parikrama. It will take about three hours, the whole Vrndavana, you know, the local Vrndavana area?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Then, another day, we can go to some of the temples and see the Deities by parikrama. And then, when we've done that successfully and you're feeling fit from it, we will attempt the maha-parikrama. Is that a good program?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...plastic mrdanga?
Tamala Krsna: Plastic mrdanga. Should we get some? He saw one in London. Do you want us to have plastic mrdangas for the parikrama?
Prabhupada: No, just a sample.
Tamala Krsna: Sridhara Swami in Hyderabad has one. [break] ...parikrama is successful, we can attempt the Mayapura parikrama. That will also be very good, Srila Prabhupada. And then, if that is successful, we will do a world parikrama, ISKCON parikrama. That means world parikrama. We will go to all your temples around the world. That may be the sweetest parikrama of all, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: I'll take little rest. [break] Makara-dhvaja will give strength. So for passing stool, whatever strength I have got, that will...
Bhavananda: In the beginning, initially, when you start taking this medicine, I would think there would be some reaction within the body to something new like that before the body develops its tolerance. I don't think it's too serious at this point. (aside:) Srila Prabhupada feels all hope is frustrated. The makara-dhvaja medicine is to give strength, but now he's passing stool, so all the strength he has is lost. At the same time, Srila Prabhupada, you're taking a lot of liquid intake now. There has to be some stool. It's digested. You're taking almost a thousand milliliters a day, 960, 890, like that. So that's quite a large amount.
Bhakti-caru: Another thing is that this is a very strong medicine, and Vanamali Prabhu was hesitant to give it at this point because it was too strong for his...
Prabhupada: Therefore I say stop it.
Tamala Krsna: Stop it completely?
Bhakti-caru: Not even once a day, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: What is the use?
Bhavananda: All hopes are frustrated.
Prabhupada: Passing stool now. Cleanse. Making frustrated.
Tamala Krsna: Why should you stop taking this medicine, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: What is the use?
Trivikrama: You've only taken it one time.
Tamala Krsna: Twice. I don't understand why you say "What is the use?"
Prabhupada: Use is that I have passed stool.
Tamala Krsna: But everyone passes stool.
Prabhupada: (laughs) But everyone eats also.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said, "Everyone eats also."
Prabhupada: If there is no eating, then passing stool means whatever strength you get is gone.
Trivikrama: You feel weaker?
Prabhupada: Certainly. Telegram?
Devotees: No.
Madhava: Maybe the impurities are passing from Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: Of course, Vanamali, he might have been hesitant to give the medicine because we suspect that his medicine was even bona fide. He might have been avoiding giving it because it wouldn't work to begin with.
Prabhupada: Bona fide or not bona fide.
Bhavananda: Still, we all saw some positive signs. Of course, it might not have been from the medicine, but it is... You did appear stronger. You went on parikrama, you sat up.
Prabhupada: No, parikrama I can... But, I mean to say, from medicinal point of view, it is not at all hopeful. All is...
Tamala Krsna: Not at all what, Srila Prabhupada?
Bhavananda: Hopeful.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Bhavananda: Also that Persian melon. We've been giving you that Persian melon juice. That is a diuretic. Let us not give that, take one more... See how the night goes. In the morning take another dose of makara-dhvaja.
Tamala Krsna: I can't see that the makara-dhvaja is bad. I can see that you... I mean I don't see where we can conclude, Srila Prabhupada, that because of the makara-dhvaja now you're passing stool.
Prabhupada: So what?
Tamala Krsna: That I can't see, that conclusion. And I still say that there's a possibility that the effect of the medicine will build up over a day or two. After all, it is not even one full day yet since you first took the medicine. How can we reject it so quickly?
Prabhupada: Because it's reacting differently.
Bhavananda: We're saying, though, that it may not be the medicine. It may be at the same time that you took the medicine you also starting taking this fruit juice, new fruit juice, melon, which is known for causing a diuretic effect. So it may be that. We're suggesting that not to give that Persian melon juice. Tomorrow morning take makara-dhvaja again and see what happens then.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: Bharadvaja Prabhu was just telling me that he's noticed-he's been massaging your legsthat your legs and feet are warmer today than they were yesterday. I have noticed over the past three or four days that your feet have been cold. Extremities, your hands and your feet, have been very cold. Now that's a sign of strength. We feel that the change from the makara-dhvaja is going to be subtle, not so swift in terms of renewed vigor. Even allopathic medicine... You took so much allopathic medicine, and you took that even more than you're willing to take this Ayurvedic medicine. That you took for three days. This you haven't even taken one full day. Of course, we're not placing all of our hopes on the medicine as such. We've been placing all of our prayers at the lotus feet of Krsna and Balarama.
Prabhupada: No, that is the only hope. All hopes fail.
Bhavananda: But then Krsna did direct you within that dream to take this medicine. Just try one more day. If all hope is frustrated, then what is the loss if we take that medicine one more day?
Prabhupada: That medicine take...
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, were you hopeful about this medicine when you first took it?
Prabhupada: Yes. I thought it will give strength, but instead of strength, I am passing stool, so whatever strength is there... (end)

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