Room Conversation

October 14, 1977, Vrndavana
Tamala Krsna: How are you feeling this morning, Srila Prabhupada? You haven't passed any urine for quite awhile. What is the reason for that.
Prabhupada: I think I have.
Tamala Krsna: No. According to the chart, you haven't passed any urine for about eight or nine hours, ten hours, nearly ten hours.
Prabhupada: I have trying to pass urine.
Tamala Krsna: Have you tried? You feel like it now? You want to try? I'll fix up the bottle. Okay. [break] (kirtana) Yes, Prabhupada? It's Tamala Krsna.
Prabhupada: That sweet lemon juice.
Tamala Krsna: You want some? Okay. (aside:) Tell Bhakti-caru. It's coming in one second, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Very good.
Tamala Krsna: He liked that, those lemons, sweet lemons. Here's Bhakti-caru.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm. Today I like to take dal-ruti.
Bhakti-caru: Dal-ruti? Accha, Srila Prabhupada. (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Here's Pisima. You want to see her?
Prabhupada: She cannot hear me.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru and Pisima)
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada liked that fruit juice.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: Pisima knows a nrsimha-mantra. Prabhupada wants that she chants that mantra.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Can I wash your face now and wash your mouth? It's nearly eight o'clock.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: I'll get the water ready. Okay. (kirtana)
Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...arrangements have been made. First I saw where they are taking prasadam, first class, all long tables in a big room, long tables, tablecloths, and proper plates, knife, fork, spoon. Perfect for them. Nice fans, very gorgeous-looking curtains. Everything real...
Prabhupada: So why...
Tamala Krsna: ...proper.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Really high class. And serving kacuris, hot jalebis, all nice preparations. And our men, they look very, very scientific. They're wearing shirt, coat and pants. Svarupa Damodara looks like a scientist now. He has transformed himself. All of them, Madhava..., they all look, Sadaputa and Jnana dasa, they all look very ...
Prabhupada: Elegant.
Tamala Krsna: Very elegant. All the scientists who are attending, they're dressed a little informally. But our men are very formal. They have the ties on. Everybody has a badge. All the people who are attending have a special badge mentioning the scientific conference's name and the individual person's name. That's in one place. Then in another room is the conference room. It was the room where we were going to have the bank there. Really big room with fancy backdrop. Some decorator has come and made a very fancy backdrop with a big... There's a long table and podium with microphones and very nice seats. In the dining hall all the seats have special white linen cloths over all the chairs. Very fresh looking and clean. And in the other room it's very cool. There's curtains so that the sun can't come in, and now there's a big yajna going on. Yasodanandana Maharaja and the Gurukula boys are inaugurating the conference by chanting Sanskrit mantras, and some of the scientists are... Actually they were very amazed to see how our men could chant like that. The whole building is first-class for this purpose. When we build this Bhaktivedanta Institute hall... It's the most wonderful idea to have this conference here, Srila Prabhupada. These scientists, they're going to be converted to Krsna consciousness. I was certain of it by seeing these arrangements. They never could have... They're being tricked.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So it's wonderful.
Prabhupada: How many scientists have come?
Tamala Krsna: I don't know. There must be somewhere between fifty and a hundred. Today is a working day. It's Friday. Tomorrow and Sunday everyone is going to come. Everyone wants to come. They consider it prestigious to come here, because the whole thing is being done on an international level.
Prabhupada: Svarupa Damodara...
Tamala Krsna: He's your top preacher. I could see that in the future this man... He's the most important preacher, because people are basing everything on these rascal scientists. I think this is only one of your many plans, Srila Prabhupada. There's no doubt that you have to make every effort to get back to health. This is only one plan, and I'm seeing it's really inconceivable how these scientists... I never thought to see such people walking into Vrndavana. Who would have ever expected it? They all look like Darwin's representatives. But our men look even more scientific than they do. That's the best part of it. And then, even though Svarupa Damodara is in shirt, coat and pants, he has a big tilaka on, and mallika.
Prabhupada: That is wanted.
Tamala Krsna: Very good. And then our sannyasis look so nice. There's Aksayananda Maharaja and Bhakti-prema Swami. They were both there, very nicely dressed, with dandas. It's really... The whole thing is complete. They get to stay in a nice guesthouse. Then there will be building of Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall. All of these things are a complete arrangement. I think these men are surprised to see that how such a thing has sprung up, and they have not been aware of it before. And when they see these books, Srila Prabhupada, that the scientists have written, I think that will floor these men. They will be completely amazed to see it. Normally, if anyone else dared to do such a thing as this, to prove by science that life comes from life, it would be a very immature attempt by some religious person, and it would not have very much weight. But here they are coming face to face with people who are actually scientists, and they will not be able to deny our arguments. I think that your Guru Maharaja is very pleased with this program, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I have given the ideas. Now you give the shape.
Tamala Krsna: We want some more ideas also. You have to give enough ideas for at least ten thousand years. (Prabhupada chuckles softly) This is a great idea, Srila Prabhupada. It's wonderful. I think that each year, if we hold one conference, at least one in Vrndavana, it gradually will become one of the main events of the scientific community of northern India. No doubt about it. In fact I'm certain that people will be begging to be able to come. There'll be big competition for who is able to be given the permission to come and the reservation in the guesthouse. I think we'll have to build many guesthouses here.
Prabhupada: Yes. We shall do.
Tamala Krsna: And also I took darsana of Krsna-Balarama, and Lord Balarama's club looks like it will destroy anyone (Prabhupada chuckles) who dares to interfere with Krsna's plan. He has a very big club, silver, all silver. And many people were coming, many pilgrims. Just you were asking me whether there's many people coming as when we were previously here. There are as many. The temple was very much crowded with people having darsana. I could tell that some of the people were pandas, the guides. They have to bring everyone to this temple, because the people want to see Krsna-Balarama Mandir. People were making a lot of expressions of joy to see Krsna and Balarama. They were very surprised to see how beautiful They were appearing. And also Radha-Syamasundara is very big attraction, because that boy dresses Them very beautifully. All the Deities look very nice today. They look especially happy about this science conference, I think. If we do this in Bombay, also Srila Prabhupada, it will be tremendous success. I think that Krsna postponed...
Prabhupada: Bhakti-caru? (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Tamala Krsna: It might be that Krsna postponed the opening of Bombay to get you..., so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.
Prabhupada: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.
Tamala Krsna: Svarupa Damodara? Yes. This is his single-handed attempt. Of course, the others have worked very hard also for writing the books and getting them printed. But this arrangement locally practically is his. He's worked very hard-Agra and Delhi.
Prabhupada: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: Fruit juice now.
Bhavananda: All the scientists are taking prasadam now, Prabhupada-kacuris and fruit, sabji, hot jalebis.
Tamala Krsna: I saw that yajna that was going on. I mean that hall is first-class looking. Even though this is not the final hall that we'll be building, still, it is one of the nicest decorated halls I have seen, with chandeliers. They rented chandeliers, Srila Prabhupada. I mean it looks very elegant. Everyone is impressed. They never expected. These scientists probably think that Vrndavana is some forest. I mean, suddenly they came into a scientific conference. And naturally, after the conference, they are attracted to go into the temple, and then they get darsana. And they're taking prasadam. It's wonderful.
Prabhupada: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vrndavana. They know it is a place for gundas. Pandas means gundas. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: But, Srila Prabhupada, you are expert at preaching to the gundas. Therefore everyone becomes converted by your preaching. We were all gundas. I think that your coming to America was no less fearless than Lord Caitanya when He went into the Jharikhanda forest to preach, Srila Prabhupada. In fact, we were worse than the animals that Lord Caitanya had to deal with. At least an animal keeps to his nature. Just like you described that boy that who was taking... You were staying in his loft, and he was taking intoxicants. He was acting like you could not calculate what he would do. Animals you can expect something. And you were there alone. Single-handedly, you were walking around in the streets. Sometimes New York is called a jungle.
Bhavananda: "Asphalt jungle."
Tamala Krsna: Asphalt jungle.
Prabhupada: Who is come in?
Tamala Krsna: Rupanuga Prabhu is here, Tripurari Maharaja, and Iksvaku Prabhu and Yadubara Prabhu. Yadubara has brought so much film that he's very hopeful for your recovery so he can use it. He brought so much film to take pictures of you. He and his wife have come. In the kitchen, Pisima is cooking, Srila Prabhupada. Seeing her cook reminds one of the Krsna book, how the ladies in Krsna's time were always cooking nice preparations.
Prabhupada: When the conference begins?
Bhavananda: Well, it was supposed to begin at 10:30, but it's running a little late because men are still arriving and they're taking prasadam, so I think noontime. We want to let them take prasadam in a easy frame of mind, not rushed. Because they're right here and living with us, so...
Tamala Krsna: The men who have come today, most of them will stay probably for the weekend.
Bhavananda: Oh, they're all planning to stay for the weekend. There are more on the way.
Tamala Krsna: How do they like the guesthouse facilities?
Bhavananda: Very much.
Tamala Krsna: And Bhavananda Maharaja has organized everything very nicely. He's deputed different men in different places, so it's very nicely organized.
Prabhupada: So I am thinking now to lay down. [break] Meeting is going on here, and you have gone to Bhagatji?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I haven't gone yet. I was in the conference for a little while. The scientists took prasadam at about 11:30. The conference was supposed to start at ten, but it didn't start till about nearly noon. And at the same time, Bhagatji has apparently arranged a program of prasadam and kirtana at his house, and it was to be the same time when ordinarily the conference would have halted for lunch. So as the conference began two hours late, now that has upset things a little. Not very much. I was in the conference for a while and all the guests are there, scientists are there. Svarupa Damodara Prabhu is giving a lecture. There weren't very many GBC or sannyasis there, but I think it was on account of the fact that the conference started so late today. There is another conference this afternoon, as far as I know. And then two more tomorrow and again the next day, and I'm pretty sure everybody will be attending. I found it very interesting. The only reason I left was that I wanted to know whether I should attend Bhagatji's lunch or not. He invited everyone and made big arrangement. But I'm your secretary, so I don't want to go unless it's proper to go.
Prabhupada: How you have accepted invitation today?
Tamala Krsna: The time it was fixed for was the lunch time of the conference. Another reason Bhagatji wanted to have it was that he just wanted to have it while everyone was here. But the main thing is that the lunch was supposed to coincide with the lunchtime of the conference. That's the main point. In other words, there was no conflict of the two.
Prabhupada: Why did you not go there?
Tamala Krsna: See, the scientists did not come on time. They did not come on time. They came late. The conference was to begin at ten, but it began at noon. I mean I don't think it's... The main point is that the devotees will start to attend probably the afternoon session, because it will be on a more regular schedule again. This was just a very irregular... Even the scientists... There was only thirty of them in the conference, because although more than that have arrived, they haven't yet settled into their quarters. This first... The first lecture is a little like that. Everybody's getting settled in.
Prabhupada: I do not know what to say.
Tamala Krsna: I don't know what to say. The devotees should all attend the conference. I think that's the point.
Prabhupada: Not necessarily. But where (whether?) the conference is going on or Bhagatji's feast is going on? This is perplexing me.
Tamala Krsna: Why it is? Because some of the devotees may leave by next week. So Bhagatji wanted to have a feast when everyone was here. And I told him to arrange then for Thursday, which was yesterday. But he said that that was not sufficient time. Therefore then I told him, "Then if you can't arrange for Thursday, then the best day is Friday, because Saturday and Sunday are the more important days of the conference." I advised him that the feast should not be held simultaneously with the conference, but he said that there was no... [break] In other words, I attended the lecture and the program, but I came out on account of Bhagatji's invitation. The lecture should have been over by one according to their program that they published. But on account of the scientists' arriving late, they did not want to push anyone. This was the whole point, Srila Prabhupada. I think it's just a, what would you call it, a circumstantial mistake. It was not planned that the two would..., one would interfere with the other. And the conference is in no way being interfered with. It's going on.
Prabhupada: That I want.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. The conference is going on. Anybody who's required in the conference is there. But some of the sannyasis and GBC's are choosing to go to Bhagatji's. But the conference people who are involved, they are all at the conference, and many devotees are there also. I think it's all right.
Prabhupada: All right.
Tamala Krsna: I don't want you to be disturbed about it. So should I go or not go, Srila Prabhupada, to Bhagatji's?
Prabhupada: That you make your choice.
Tamala Krsna: "You have to make your choice." (laughs) I think Bhagatji wants to send you over a plate of prasadam also. I'll inform Svarupa Damodara to come and see you right after his lecture is over, Srila Prabhupada. All right? [break]
Hari-sauri: Srila Prabhupada? Svarupa Damodara is here.
Prabhupada: So? How things are going on?
Svarupa Damodara: Things are going nicely, though we didn't have too many guests today, Srila Prabhupada. A little more than fifty came. Most of them will be coming tomorrow, and Sunday will be all full. 'Cause today is still Friday, and in Delhi all the schools are still open. But we came, quite a few interesting scientists from Delhi. And one had only one question. Otherwise nobody had anything. I spoke for about two hours on the difference between life and matter, and we showed that the science, modern science, actually does not study life. They only study inanimate matter, atoms and molecules. So they think that life could also be just atoms and molecules. But we showed that that is wrong, and they shouldn't propagate this false idea. Especially in India, I especially made a request to all the scholars, saying that "You should take this very seriously, and should try to expose this in genuine spirit of knowledge all over the world, because the Western science and technology, we tend to think that everything is the absolute truth because science is coming from the West, but we're saying that that is too narrow-minded. We should be a little broad-minded and we should also consider other possible alternatives." And we demonstrated that modern science actually cannot explain about the nature of life. So we requested that in the coming two days we'll establish this on a more scientific basis, that this is not just religious dogma; it is based on complete, genuine, scientific knowledge.
Prabhupada: So where they are staying?
Svarupa Damodara: They're staying all in the guesthouse.
Prabhupada: And their food?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Prasadam is served in that big hall where we were planning to have the bank? No, the garage. It is very clean. It is all decorated. And we have tables and chairs. We have in a buffet style. Also devotees have been serving.
Prabhupada: And where the conference is being held?
Svarupa Damodara: Conference is held in that bank room. We have about 150 chairs in that hall. We have displayed Srila Prabhupada's books with the bronze bust, nicely arranged, all the books. And we also have Srila Prabhupada's picture from Bhaktivedanta Manor, that enlarged picture. It's very nice. We have that on the background. Then we have also the recording systems. Everything is recorded. We also had some men from radio... Five men came from radio, All-India Radio. They recorded. So everything seems to be going nicely, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Thank you. That's all.
Svarupa Damodara: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Gurukrpa: This is one schedule. It's call the First International Life Comes From Life Conference, and they've put out their schedule of the program as they're presenting it. Right now they're doing a one and a half hour discussion by this Dr. M. Marchetti. That's at five o'clock.
Tamala Krsna: That's not what they're doing right now.
Gurukrpa: No. Right now they're doing Darwin's theory and the past history of life, Dr. Cohen.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. That's Bob Cohen, Srila Prabhupada. That Peace Corps...
Hari-sauri: Brahmavati.
Tamala Krsna: Brahma-tirtha. When I was sitting there just now... I I mean, I suggested a lot of things which can improve the presentation. One of the big problems is the microphone system they have is very cheap. They rented some. So I suggested that they take the temple microphone system for the next few days, which is a very good one, and use that, because it's very hard to hear clearly.
Prabhupada: Why not immediately?
Tamala Krsna: Well, right in the middle of the conference... They can do it for the evening one. They can probably change it by five-thirty. Another thing is that these men, these scientists of ours, they are just beginning to practice speaking. Just like our sannyasis, we get to speak in the temples practically all the time. But these men are new at lecturing. So they require further practice in their presentation to make it very interestingwhich they will get automatically by doing what they are doing. Another really important thing, I feel, is that I think it would be much more interesting if someone with an opposing opinion were to speak first, say, some other scientist we could invite who would speak on the same subject but from a different point of view. Then our man would speak from the Krsna conscious point of view. Then people could ask questions. Because the audience I think very much appreciates when there's a little bit of, er, a dialogue. Debate.
Madhava: They have such a speaker in physics. He's going to speak that life comes from matter.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. That's good. Because otherwise... I looked at the audience this afternoon. First of all, there weren't that many. There was only about fifteen men attending this afternoon's lecture.
Gurukrpa: Scientists, fifteen.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyasis, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just... It's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak... I haven't spoken to Svarupa Damodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rupanuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarupa Damodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and it would be very good. Here it's a little easier.
Prabhupada: So not all the doctors who...
Tamala Krsna: No. In other words, there's a big enough program so that... They pick which conference they want to come to. They don't come to every lecture. They may only come to one or two in a day. Today I think there's three. Right? Three lectures? So probably they might attend one or two of them. Of course, some people might attend all of them.
Bhavananda: Also many more are coming on Sunday. They're coming through the whole conference. Tomorrow more are coming, and Sunday is the biggest day.
Tamala Krsna: All in all, though, it's still very impressive and very much encouraging. It's just like everythingit takes practice. This is the first of its kind. So for being the first, it's very nice. And it certainly is well organized. That's a fact. Everything is theregood guesthouse, nice prasadam and qualified speakers. You can see our men are very... They must be presenting thousands of facts. I mean every sentence they are backing up with some quotation or some substantial reference. They are very well prepared for these lectures.
Prabhupada: But other parties, they are not taking interest.
Tamala Krsna: Other parties mean?
Prabhupada: Opposition.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, well, I haven't heard very much opposition.
Gurukrpa: He asked, "Is there any questions?" but no one really...
Tamala Krsna: It's got to be set up in a different way, in my opinion. There has to be from the beginning an opportunity for an opposing speaker to speak.
Harikesa: Yes. This man isn't going to speak until Sunday, the opposition.
Tamala Krsna: But each lecture should have an opposing speaker. That's my point. They should begin with an opposing speaker, and then our man should speak, refuting what he says. And then the audience should be allowed to ask questions of either person who they choose. Then it will become... Otherwise it's very one-sided. It doesn't appear to be as objective.
Prabhupada: Dr. Kapoor came?
Tamala Krsna: Dr. Kapoor was there this morning. I was not there during the part where he spoke, but apparently he spoke some Mayavadi philosophy, this Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor.
Gurukrpa: He said that everything is made of molecules, and molecules are invisible; therefore actually everything is invisible. Therefore everything is like a dream, everything is unreal.
Tamala Krsna: This is the result of all of his years of study in order to write his book. He's become a Mayavadi. Or at least his... Madhava dasa, our Madhava dasa, he got up and completely defeated him.
Gurukrpa: If everything is invisible, then he should also become invisible.
Tamala Krsna: Acyutananda Maharaja said, "Then someone should have got up and said, 'Then why are you speaking if it is all a dream? Why are you even talking? Then your talking is also a dream, so why not sit down?' "
Bhavananda: He said, "If everything is invisible, then how about me taking this invisible chair and smashing it over your invisible head?"
Tamala Krsna: Doctor Kapoor is really something.
Prabhupada: He has become Mayavadi.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. (laughter) Does that sound possible? It sounds possible, doesn't it? Yes.
Gurukrpa: He said before he met His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta that he was a Mayavadi. Now he's still a Mayavadi.
Tamala Krsna: He gave up his... He became part of this Nitai-Gaura-Radhe-Syama group. And how genuine could he be to do that? Anyway, no one took him very seriously.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: No one took him very seriously, especially after Madhava dasa smashed his nonsense point. Of course, he did it very nicely, Madhava dasa. Because he's a scientist, he did it in a very tasteful way, scientifically proved that what he said was wrong.
Bhavananda: Prabhupada? You haven't taken very much liquid today, only 200 cc's of juice, not counting the yamuna-jala. Would you like us to make you up some juice, pomegranate juice?
Prabhupada: That juice is good, lime.
Bhavananda: Lime.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...do some kirtana? Do you want to know more about the conference?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: I think we'll give you another report later on. It's successful. That's a fact. Only these are suggestions how it can be improved. We'll speak with Svarupa Damodara about it. [break] ...from the devotees in France, Bhagavan's zone. In fact, it's a four-page telegram. Should I read it? It says, "Dear Srila Prabhupada, please accept our most humble obeisances at your lotus feet. Knowing how dear your book distribution is to you, Srila Prabhupada, the devotees in France would like to humbly offer you the results of our week-long marathon sankirtana, hoping in some way to please you." Srila Prabhupada? The devotees there, they went out on book distribution for twelve hours every day. All the devotees. They went out every day for seven days in a row, for twelve hours each day. And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says, "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gitas in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Srila Prabhupada. We usually print of a Bhagavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gitas in one week in French, Bhagavad-gitas in French. He says, "...to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard..." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. "...who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Srila Prabhupada, every day. "Jagad-vasi dasa, who distributed 1,125 big books; Arista-nasana dasa, 864 books; Vesa-kirti dasa, 851 big books; Akhilesvara dasa 835 big books; Krpa-siddha dasa, 760 big books." Then they say, "Thank you for allowing us to assist you in preaching this message of Lord Caitanya in the Western countries. All glories to you, Srila Prabhupada. Your humble servants, the devotees in France." Pretty big distribution. Bhagavan estimates that they collected over sixty thousand dollars in one week. It's amazing. Seems like Krsna is giving unlimited facilities to spread His glories, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. We do not want liberation. We want to serve the purpose of the Gosvamis, in association with pure devotees. To stop birth and death is not our purpose. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas, janame janame hoy ei abhilas. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, if you get stronger, then on our way to America this next time you can go via France and stay in the Chateau. The French devotees this last time were not able to get your darsana, because they were busy distributing your books. So they all feel very confident that you will certainly bestow your mercy on them and stop in France next time. Bhagavan said that the cows are giving very sweet milk there. I think there there is also Krsna-Balarama.
Bhagavan: Yes, there's also Krsna-Balarama. [break]
Hari-sauri: Here's your drink, Srila Prabhupada.
Bhagavan: That Dr. Kapoor got up after Svarupa Damodara's speech today and he said that actually it was very nice that Svarupa Damodara had organized this program, but actually it was not necessary, because the whole problem can be solved very easily when we understand there is no such thing as matter. He was preaching the philosophy that this material world is false. He was getting up there and saying that actually this table does not exist. (laughs) Nothing actually exists. He said the table is made of molecules, and the molecules are invisible. Therefore the table is also invisible.
Abhirama: What was the scientists' reaction to that?
Bhagavan: He just spoke right before the thing closed. Svarupa Damodara tried to point out how there is a difference between matter and spirit in that one can definitely see the difference between a living body and a dead body. But he didn't actually go in too much detail to defeat his arguments. But I was very surprised that he would come up with such a Mayavadi statement, that brahma satyam jagan mithya philosophy. There are not so many scientists there today, maybe twenty. (kirtana) [break]
Prabhupada: ...let me pass. (pause)
Hari-sauri: If you're here with us, then that's all we need. Then we can go out and do anything.
Prabhupada: Tomorrow shall I take the risk of taking little milk?
Hari-sauri: Generally when you take milk it causes lot of difficulty with mucus. This sweet lime juice, that seems to be doing some good, though. Perhaps it might be better not to take the milk for a little while until your system becomes more healthy.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Is there any difficulty from the solid food?
Prabhupada: No taste.
Hari-sauri: No taste. But at least it may give some strength back.
Prabhupada: How it can if it cannot enter into the system?
Hari-sauri: It's not being digested? If you were to take something like soup, that may be more easily digestible, just the liquids. But that would have much of the goodness...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: Things like soup and vegetable juices?
Prabhupada: Cannot take. No taste.
Hari-sauri: At least with the chanting, that gives a higher taste.
Prabhupada: Hm. What is the time now?
Hari-sauri: About twenty minutes to six.
Prabhupada: It will continue up to six.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Madhava dasa is speaking right now. Madhava dasa. He was speaking when I went there. There's not so many people there right now. Only about a half a dozen of the visitors were there. [break]
Satadhanya: So we all became very much enlivened from this conference. I think that it has very great potential for preaching Krsna consciousness all over the world, because they cannot challenge. Even Svarupa Damodara, he asked, "Can anybody debate?" And all the scientists were quiet. They could not offer any challenge. So it's very effective, a very good means to preach, and we all became enlivened by attending this conference.
Prabhupada: What is the time now?
Hari-sauri: Five past six, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Why don't you come around this side? They are all dressed in their shirt and ties, Srila Prabhupada. They looked just like the scientists.
Prabhupada: Give them chair.
Hari-sauri: Chairs.
Svarupa Damodara: We're all right, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: You have got coat-pant. Sit down at the...
Hari-sauri: Prabhupada said you've got coat and pant. He was concerned about whether you should sit or...
Prabhupada: So sit down. Sit down on the chair.
Tamala Krsna: Bring some chairs, Tapomaya. Bring those chairs. Actually, Srila Prabhupada, they are all right, I think.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. There are other...
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada's mercy. Push that chair down. One more is coming. Svarupa Damodara, sit down.
Prabhupada: You'll get one corner light.
Tamala Krsna: See how they're all dressed, Srila Prabhupada? Nice looking.
Hari-sauri: Shirt and tie.
Prabhupada: Now you are seated comfortably?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. We're comfortable.
Prabhupada: So?
Svarupa Damodara: So, we are learning, Srila Prabhupada. This is our first conference. And we... We are confident that we can do it.
Prabhupada: Who is seated over...?
Svarupa Damodara: Where is Brahma-tirtha? He's the Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, one of the authors. Next to him is Sadaputa, who wrote two books on quantum physics and the laws of consciousness, demonstration by mathematics that life cannot arise from matter.
Tamala Krsna: I read you that in London, Srila Prabhupada. That was Sadaputa's book that we read in London.
Svarupa Damodara: And next to him is Madhava. His body is like mine-small. So we are making points that modern science doesn't know life.
Prabhupada: No, you are making point, but there is no reaction from the other side?
Svarupa Damodara: Not so many.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Svarupa Damodara: Most of them actually agreed to what we say. On Sunday we may have some interesting... First somebody is going to speak against us. There's one Dr. Malvia(?) from Agra. He's a biochemist. He's going to speak against us. Also Dr. Mishra from All-India Institute Medical Sciences, he's going to speak. He's not exactly against, but he's heavily Mayavadi oriented. Also he tries to compromise the modern scientific concept with the Vedic ideas, which is actually not what we're trying to do. So on Sunday also I'm planning to have about an hour and half as discussion, completely open to all the participants. So on Sunday we expect a little lively discussion.
Jnana: The pressmen were very favorable.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, we also had press conference today. So they told me that they'd like to release, so we have to summarize what we have said today so that they can print it in the newspapers.
Tamala Krsna: Which newspapers came?
Svarupa Damodara: From Mathura the Times of India came. I think five?
Jnana: There were five reporters here altogether.
Svarupa Damodara: Five reporters. Also from All-India Radio they came.
Jnana: They're coming again on Sunday.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. And the press people are coming tomorrow also, day after tomorrow. So we'll try to summarize what we have studied today and try to print it nicely in the newspapers. I requested them that this is a great responsibility for the newsmen to do this genuine scientific propaganda. So I requested them they should cooperate with us. They said that they will do it. I also requested the members of the delegate to kindly attend our temple functions. Right now I think they are in the arati, sandhya-arati.
Prabhupada: Hm. So let them.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. And then we have prasadam at seven o'clock. Then I'm going to show Hare Krsna film.
Tamala Krsna: What are you serving at seven? What kind of prasadam?
Svarupa Damodara: We have nice prasadam. I don't remember the menu, but I think they are very satisfied with the prasadam program that we have.
Tamala Krsna: Then after prasadam?
Svarupa Damodara: After the prasadam we are going to show movies on the "Spiritual Frontier" in the hall on our Fairchild.
Tamala Krsna: Why not on a big screen?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, we can also do it on a big scale.
Tamala Krsna: 'Cause when you have a big...
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, actually we can do that. Dr. Kapoor spoke for about five minutes...
Prabhupada: Mayavadi?
Svarupa Damodara: Actually he's very much influenced by Mayavadi ideas, I realized. Then later on, he spoke to me that there is some misunderstanding. I told him that this is not what we have learned from Srila Prabhupada. (end)

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