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771003rc.vrn
(Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: But then that creates mucus. Srila Prabhupada? One problem is that that milk, drinking milk, creates mucus. (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Cough.
Sac-cid-ananda: Prabhupada asked him, "Can I take powdered milk?" He said, "No." Only pure cow's milk will cure him, and that cough coming, that will cure his... That cure is there.
Prabhupada: So that pure cow's milk... (Bengali) ...proportion... (Bengali-about "so much milk, so much water")
Bhagatji: When the cough comes out, it will take out the disease.
Tamala Krsna: Cough. One trouble is that the cough stops sleeping. When Prabhupada's coughing, he cannot sleep properly. (Bengali) He wants you to cough more, Srila Prabhupada.
Bhagatji: He said cough should come out.
Kaviraja: (Bengali) Horlicks' tonic.
Prabhupada: No, no... (Bengali-about Horlicks) What is the name?
Kaviraja: (Bengali) Complan. Best.
Tamala Krsna: We brought it from London. Best, he says. (Prabhupada and Kaviraja discuss Complan and Horlicks in Bengali) What about milk? He wants you to take milk also with the Complan?
Prabhupada: No, no. Let us take the Complan only. (Bengali)
Kaviraja: No milk.
Bhagatji: He says it is a very nourishing diet. Milk should be given also. It is nectar, he said.
Tamala Krsna: But it's nectar when you can digest it. You can digest it. (Bengali) We can try it, Srila Prabhupada. The kaviraja seems to think that by coughing and having the cough come out, it's not bad. He says it will bring out impurities in the body. It seems to me you don't like to cough, because it disturbs your sleep. From what I understand from what Bhagatji has translated...
Prabhupada: Complan he recommends.
Bhagatji: That powder. That is same treatment.
Bhagatji: ...and they all should be covered with some woolen cloth. Should not be exposed.
Tamala Krsna: That's hot, too hot, though Srila Prabhupada? You want us to give you powders again for taking the swelling? Hands and...?
Bhagatji: He said nothing is wrong. Only weakness.
Prabhupada: On that I understand. But weakness is...
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Is there any ada? Is that what Prabhupada asked? You asked for ada, Prabhupada? Srila Prabhupada, one of your sannyasi preachers has just arrived, Hamsaduta Swami.
Prabhupada: Oh. (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Call Sac-cid-ananda.
Bhagatji: He wants that "Once a day, two times I should be informed the condition."
Bhagatji: At five o'clock in the evening.
Bhagatji: Once only. (translating:) "What is the change after the medicine, I want to know." (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Dry. (Bengali)
Kaviraja: Dry.
Bhagatji: Take out all water and...
Bhagatji: After putting the powder. Get(?) hot water. (Bengali) Cool water on the head. (Bengali)
Bhagatji: Some honey mixed.
Kaviraja: No. (Bengali)
Bhagatji: In the grape juice mix some honey.
Kaviraja: Pure honey. (Bengali)
Bhagatji: Pomegranate. Pineapple? (Bengali) No.
Bhagatji: Mosambi?
Kaviraja: No.
Tamala Krsna: We were doing that in the morning. Honey and ada... Raisins and what? (Bengali) He can take after bathing, after morning. He brushes his teeth, and then... (Bengali-Kaviraja says it's all right for Prabhupada to take darsana of the Deities) [break] Carry Prabhupada downstairs. Up to nine. Between nine and ten. So we'll send a car to (indistinct). Nine o'clock on. [break]
Prabhupada: The kaviraja said that my life is finished; now by the grace of Krsna. So under the circumstances, whatever medicinal instruction he gives, strictly follow properly.
Prabhupada: So you cannot understand Bengali. Bhagatji can understand...
Prabhupada: Hindi, also Bengali. Sac-cid-ananda also.
Prabhupada: So call him.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. That's what I'm going to do, because the difference is this: Sac-cid-ananda is a little scatterbrained; he's not very clear-headed. And Bhagatji has so many ideas. But Bhakti-caru is smart. Bhakti-caru speaks Bengali and he's smart.
Prabhupada: And Hindi also.
Tamala Krsna: And Hindi. Bhagatji just has too many ideas. Just like Bhagatji's big idea is "I have to give Prabhupada fresh cow's milk from my cows." He's thinking, Bhagatji... His thing is he's thinking already, "I want to give Prabhupada milk, cow's milk." But someone should be here who doesn't want anything except to take the kaviraja's instructions. I get afraid about Bhagatji like that.
Prabhupada: No. Kaviraja also said, but with...
Prabhupada: Ada.
Prabhupada: Yes. And at night, Complan.
Prabhupada: No, he's coming. Ask him then. The best thing will be... Call him immediately.
Tamala Krsna: Bhakti-caru. All right. I think so also. And he would want to be here. I have no... None of us have any problem working cooperatively. It's just that I don't want to see someone be given this responsibility who's not qualified, like Sac-cid-ananda. I don't want to trust you to his care, Sac-cid-ananda's care. That would be very bad on our part. And Bhagatji's just... I don't know how to explain it, but I'd rather it be Bhakti-caru.
Prabhupada: No. All of them can cooperate. Anyway, call him.
Tamala Krsna: All right. What does the kaviraja say about your chances, Srila Prabhupada? What does he say about your chances of surviving? (Prabhupada coughs) How can you drink milk when the cough is like this? I cannot understand how they can recommend milk.
Prabhupada: No, that counteracts any...
Prabhupada: He is giving medicine for that.
Prabhupada: So far that... He said that "Life is finished, and you are simply still living by the grace of Krsna. And there is still life. Let us try it." Now he is coming. Ask him daily what...
Tamala Krsna: Yes. He speaks English. He spoke with me in English. I think he speaks some English, the kaviraja, a little bit. So you feel a little hopeful?
Prabhupada: Eh. For me, either live or die, I don't mind. But if you are trying for my life, try it very seriously. That is my formula. No negligence. Whatever he advises, that is good.
Tamala Krsna: It's good if you can try and make the cough come out, that mucus. You have to give a little extra exertion, I think, to get it out. Is that the bedsore, Srila Prabhupada? (pause) Whoever does this medicine with the kaviraja should be intelligent person. That's all I'm saying. As you said to me, "Don't be negligent." Of course, Your Divine Grace knows me very well, so you called me to tell me that I should cooperate. But my cooperation is immediately there when I see someone is intelligent enough to do it. So Bhakti-caru is fit for that.
Prabhupada: So call him immediately.
Tamala Krsna: All right. He said you're living by the grace of Krsna. That means it's a miracle that you're alive.
Prabhupada: I tell him...
Tamala Krsna: In Bombay you appeared to be very hopeless for living. Now that you're in Vrndavana, I think you will become more hopeful.
Prabhupada: That kaviraja was also hopeless.
Prabhupada: Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: No, no. That Bombay kaviraja was a businessman. He had a Seiko watch on, special Cross pen, pan in the mouth. He was a paka baniya. (Prabhupada coughs up mucus) This man appears to be a genuine kaviraja.
Prabhupada: I think so. So are you sending him telegram?
Prabhupada: Where is Hamsaduta?
Prabhupada: I'll sit down. (now?)
Tamala Krsna: You'll sit up? [break] Should I read it, Srila Prabhupada? "The battle royale over the existence of God as creator of life pursued relentlessly by the Hare Krsna movement and debunked with equal disbelief to match by the president of the Rationalist Association has fizzled out. Dr. Abraham Kovoor's long-standing challenge, backed with an offer of Rs. 100,000, to anyone who could provide proof of the divine creation of life was taken up by Hamsaduta Swami of the Hare Krsna movement. The Swami increased the offer made by Dr. Kovoor to one million rupees in foreign exchange if he could produce lifea mosquito or a mousefrom inert chemicals to prove his contention that life originated from chance biochemical combinations. The rationalist doctor has now put the ball in the Krsna court. He counters the challenge, calling upon the God-believers to demonstrate before the public that God is the creator of life and to prove it with the creation of one." What a nonsense rascal. That's the whole article, Srila Prabhupada.
Hamsaduta: We revived after the riots and trouble in Shree Lanka. We again issued notice that we would revive the challenge for the 26th of last month. And when our devotee went to Kovoor to give him the notice, Dr. Kovoor was laid up in bed, and he informed our man that he had cancer and he expected to die within the next two months or so. And so we didn't hold our program.
Hamsaduta: No, we didn't hold it. I also came down with malaria, and the press, because of the intermittent trouble, they sort of lost the momentum. They didn't publicize it enough, so we just... But the public has got the idea.
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Hamsaduta: Well, the public has really relished the whole situation. But it seemed to me afterwards that this same technique could be applied in any university or anywhere where such a man is propagating this idea. As soon as you find one out, then make a public announcement that a program will be conducted, he's invited, and such-and-such amount of money would be offered if he can substantiate his idea of inert chemicals being the origin of life. Because I saw that the public interest became very keen, especially when they saw there was such a huge reward being offered to substantiate such a widely accepted, scientific idea.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is a challenge to the, all these Nobel Prize-winner scientists. So our position is better. Hm?
Hamsaduta: Oh, yes. The new government there, they pride themselves in being a dharmistha society, based on the teachings of Buddha. So I submitted an open letter to the same press, that "How is it dharmistha if the government is in fact supporting the organized slaughterhouses, that the government maintains the liquor industry, the tobacco industry, the tea industry, and they encourage cinema, nightclub, hotel, tourism, which encourages prostitution?" I said, "Where is the dharma? Dharma means four things: no animal slaughter, no intoxication, like that." The editor promised that he would publish it today. So if they publish it, it will also be a very controversial...
Prabhupada: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?
Hamsaduta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for them, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: At least they talk like that. And so all the religious groups there, the Christians and others, they're phasing them out by taking away their resident visas.
Hamsaduta: Well, the Tamils are in a very bad position. They've all fled to the Jafna area, the north area.
Hamsaduta: Well, the government, the politicians, they incite the people to create trouble, and in this way they try to assume office. They just take advantage of the people in this way, stir them up.
Prabhupada: Tamils are poor men?
Hamsaduta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.
Hamsaduta: It was actually the Tamils who agitated for the British to get out, and once the British got out, then the Singhalese pushed out the Tamils because they're a minority. About three million Tamils to eleven million Singhalese. The economic and political situation is very, very deteriorated in that country.
Hamsaduta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, rent hall...
Hamsaduta: The curfew's over now.
Hamsaduta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Sri Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durga and Ganesa and Siva. There's practically not a single Krsna temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.
Prabhupada: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.
Hamsaduta: The Buddhists, they have very nice temples there. In all their temples they have diorama exhibits about the life of Buddha and other figures from their line, but done very nicely, much nicer than the Hindu temples, very clean. But all Buddhists, they don't follow Buddhist even. They all eat meat, and, they say, they even drink and have women. Everything deteriorated. (to Tamala Krsna:) Is it all right to speak?
Hamsaduta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Radha-Krsna and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gita. I was thinking that in Shree Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dharmapatha(?) and also Bhagavad-gita, showing how Bhagavad-gita is beyond the stage of nirvana. Is that a good idea, Prabhupada, or not?
Prabhupada: Good idea, provided you can present properly.
Hamsaduta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Visnu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.
Prabhupada: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.
Hamsaduta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvana there is brahma-nirvana, and beyond that there is Paramatma, and above that there is Bhagavan.
Prabhupada: Nirvana means sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is nirvana. Krsna said, sarva-dharman parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvana. It requires expert presentation.
Hamsaduta: In all the temples they keep a Visnu Deity. All the Buddhist temples they have a Visnu Deity. They have a saying that Visnu promised Lord Buddha to protect the Buddhist religion in Sri Lanka for five thousand years in this age. They say that.
Hamsaduta: I don't know.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I'm thinking to go today to the Radha-Damodara temple to see how things are going on. You told me regularly to check there whenever we're here?
Prabhupada: Not immediately.
Prabhupada: ...keeping money in the bank. Means so long I think that the bank keeping money is my pocket. And as soon as I've got the sentiment that these men are interested to keep our money in their pocket, I'll be very careful not to deposit.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, he said that to me today. He said, "Now your fixed deposits are decreasing, and your bank balances in all accounts are very minimal." The manager said this to me today.
Prabhupada: Because they are harassing.
Tamala Krsna: Because... The reason... We are afraid of their psychology that they think that our money is now theirs. And that is giving us fear.
Prabhupada: They're thinking like that. We cannot freely have our money.
Tamala Krsna: Actually it's only with the greatest difficulty that you were able to transfer this fixed deposits. Four times they came to you, and for even a half hour to one hour at a time went on and on, explaining to Prabhupada why he should not do this. Really the best thing is that, I mean, if I can give this humble advice, is that someone like Giriraja should deal with them instead of... Because I feel, Srila Prabhupada, they take advantage of you when they talk with you, and that makes me feel very bad to see.
Prabhupada: Then tell Giriraja. Ask Giriraja to take...
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Because they see that you're not that well, and they also know that you're so merciful. And you're also a local Brajabasi in a way. Therefore they're always against any of us taking any participation. It's the funniest thing. I explained something to Giriraja. He's been dealing with so many legal things for so long that he's become like a lawyer, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Central Bank is very straightforward.
Hari-sauri: These people here, because they're small-time and because you're such a good customer that they're scared that their reputation with the bigger bank will become spoiled if you take money out and don't deposit, they're very keen... It's a false prestige thing for themselves to try to keep your money in their bank. There's so much personal motivation there, and they're making us their servant.
Tamala Krsna: This one Dr. Sharma wanted to open a Gurukula account. So they told him, "You have no authority whatsoever. Bhagatji has no authority, Aksayananda has no authority, Gopala... Only Prabhupada has authority." The funny thing about this, Srila Prabhupada, is that according to our memorandum, they're not correct. Actually, according to the memorandum, two members of the Bureau can pass a resolution to open an account. But the most amazing thing is they don't accept the Bureau. They accept something called the Governing Body, which legally in India doesn't have any weight. And when I tried to explain to them that there's a memorandum and there's a Bureau, they said, "We don't accept it. Everything is Prabhupada, and he's the chairman of the Governing Body." When I told this to Giriraja, Giriraja just laughed and said that...
Prabhupada: If Giriraja can deal with these men, then let him do it immediately.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Very good. He can, because he thinks legally, and that's how you have to deal with these men. They're actually small time, and they're just harassing us because we're acting in a very gentlemanly way and they're acting in a very ungentlemanly way. Anyway, we're not going to take out our fixed deposits. The ones that are there should be matured. But when they're matured, if we want to transfer them to somewhere else, we should have the freedom to do that and not be bound to have to keep the money there. That's the only point. And we'll be bringing so much money. Your Divine Grace has plans for making Vrndavana very much developed. So they should not worry like that. None of our other bankers are worried. They see sometimes we take the money, sometimes we bring money. But because of the way they're dealing, we don't want to bring any money. I'll tell Giriraja to..., if he can deal with this matter, that he should take it up. He wanted to meet them. He said he wanted to see what...
Prabhupada: Let him meet.
Tamala Krsna: All right. They need his specimen signature anyway, so that will be a good reason to go. Actually, most customers they have are small, so they're afraid of the bank. But a society like ours with so many connections in Delhi and other places doesn't have to be in the same position as an individual.
Tamala Krsna: And they get raises. They get promotions. But they've lost money instead of gotten more, because of the way they've dealt with Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Therefore I say do the needful.
Tamala Krsna: All right. I dealt with them nicely this morning, and they were very satisfied. I gave them a little prasadam. They were happy. I did as you were dealing with them. Now you have to allow us to give you some relief, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: I'm going to go with Giriraja to the bank today, Srila Prabhupada. That's why I was going to go to Radha-Damodara temple and at the same time go to the bank, because they're right next to each other.
Prabhupada: No, do the needful. Giriraja is here. I have already given everything in writing.
Prabhupada: (Hindi or Bengali) (conversation with kaviraja)
Sac-cid-ananda: Hot cloth, that Prabhupada massaging.
Upendra: There is no hot cloth, hot-water cloth. Drying cloth.
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Sac-cid-ananda: Hot cloth and ginger juice, hot, massaging over.
Sac-cid-ananda: And making hot...
Prabhupada: If the mucus come out, the prana(?) come out. (Bengali)
Kaviraja: (Bengali) Two medicine for cough.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Sac-cid-ananda: Prabhupada pulse is all right.
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: He didn't take any milk yesterday. Then why the cough came? No, milk won't take away cough.
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: The main business is to take away the cough. Wait a second. Just try to understand. No, no, listen. When the cough comes out, Prabhupada cannot sleep. When Prabhupada cannot sleep, then he becomes weaker.
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, the kaviraja gave you medicines which made the cough come out more. That was his idea, to do that purposely. I don't know if you want that, but that was... His idea was to make the cough come out more. You took it that the medicine might not have been acting, but according to him, he wanted that to happen.
Kaviraja: (Bengali) Medicine. Hot water, medicine. (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: The swelling has increased since yesterday. It was never so much as today. The mucus was never so much as today. (Bengali-Prabhupada speaks little Bengali) What did Prabhupada just say?
Sac-cid-ananda: Prabhupada telling that he already gave two dose of these medicines here, that according to Prabhupada thinking he will use the medicine.
Sac-cid-ananda: If necessary, he will stop one type medicine getting, or again he can try to take. But if Prabhupada like, he can take.
Prabhupada: The havoc caused, the medicine.
Tamala Krsna: Havoc caused by medicine. Prabhupada says the medicine caused havoc. (Bengali-Kaviraja and Prabhupada) Couldn't digest it. That's the real issue. He can't even digest the medicine. (Bengali-Prabhupada and Kaviraja) What we want is to stop the coughing, not an expectorant.
Upendra: Drowsiness. Chloroform.
Brahmananda: Codeine?
Upendra: No, chloroform.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Sac-cid-ananda: Prabhupada telling that today he cannot get medicine much. He should wait, and if he feel better tomorrow, he can see.
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Sac-cid-ananda: I have explained one medicine to clear the cough. Doctor knows. Immediately I all time use that to clear my cough, and when I feel bacteria and cough, immediately clean, and digestive power becomes so strong. He knows that. I ask him that please use him. This medicine is very difficult to digest, but that medicine is very easy digestion. And digestion power also there. He knows. I ask him to give one treatment on the mouth. Immediately cough will clear. He can speak nicely. He can digest. (indistinct) He knows everything. All time, I use that medicine to clear, the cough, to make digestion power so strong, very good medicine, very old medicine. He knows. I ask him to please prescribe that medicine, because this is very difficult to digest. Therefore Prabhupada asked him, "Today I cannot take any medicine," and to stop this medicine. Very old medicine. Very good...
Kaviraja: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: How do you know it won't again cause more havoc? What is the guarantee? You're not Prabhupada. You are a young man. Prabhupada is old. So how do you know it will not do the same... (Bengali) Can't make an experiment... (Bengali) Patent medicine. (Bengali) The musk is for the heart? The heart. So I thought the heart was strong. If the heart is strong, why give him musk? (Bengali) If the heart is strong, why give musk?
Bhagatji: More strength.
Sac-cid-ananda: To clean the cough also. The mental strength.
Abhirama: But where can we get the real musk? (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/oct/vrndavana/october/03/1977 Previous: Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana Next: Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana
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