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Room Conversation

March 22, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: Echo mano jano mandanam arpane.(?) Manusya-janama paiya, radha-krsna na bhajiya. You can very easily do it. And neglect it simply by dog race, four-legged, four-wheel race. They have no knowledge. Anthill. I have given the name. Anthill? Yes. These big, big buildings, anthill. And these four-wheel cars, dog-race. What is the difference between the anthill and the skyscraper building?
Guest (1) (Indian man): More modern only.
Prabhupada: The same thing. They are also living in the holes, and we have made some holes.
Bhavananda: Even in Africa, we saw some anthills that were as big as skyscrapers.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Bhavananda: Big, big.
Tamala Krsna: Twenty foot.
Bhavananda: Twenty-foot anthills.
Prabhupada: If more men come, then I shall describe all this anthill civilization. "Health." Nonsense, what "health"? He'll be kicked out immediately.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Even healthy development.
Prabhupada: No, who is healthy if he's going to die? "I am so healthy that I am going to die tomorrow." This is their health.
Tamala Krsna: Illusion. They don't know. Every one of those questions was about the body.
Prabhupada: Krsna said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. That is healthy, when you do not die even the body is destroyed. That is healthy life. What is this healthy life? The body is finished and everything, everything is... Actually everything is finished. And to keep people in that ignorance"The body is finished; everything is finished." That's not the fact. Krsna very clearly said, na jayate na mriyate va kadacin na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. They do not question even how it is possible. That is the most important question. Some lady asked me, "What is the important...?"
Tamala Krsna: "What is the most important thing in life?"
Prabhupada: This is the most important question.
Tamala Krsna: She was a follower of Rajneesh, that girl up there.
Guest (1): That first girl, European girl, was follower of Rajneesh.
Tamala Krsna: The one who asked the question, "What is the most important thing in life?"
Prabhupada: No, if our movement is organizedly pushed on, the Rajneesh position will be over. Rajneesh is already finished. He has no place in Bombay.
Guest (1): No, he has been driven out of Bombay. He has gone to Poona because all the hocus-pocus was going on, people were complaining. So on moral ground, he has been shifted to... I mean he had to go to Poona.
Tamala Krsna: Why do they let him stay there?
Guest (1): Because the people are not opposing. If they opposed him, he shall have to vacate there also.
Prabhupada: What about Sai Baba?
Guest (1): He is doing some, but... He is doing all this gold bangles, and gold rings and all those things, giving it to the people. So people are attracted. Sometimes the biggest families which are blessed by him are also in Karmanis.
Tamala Krsna: What happened to them?
Guest (1): They are all fighting.
Tamala Krsna: One of them died, I remember.
Guest (1): That... One of them died. But some other people also fought in the families. Company can't pay heavy... They lost control of the company. If saints come and business is ruined, it is not correct. If he's a real saint, he should have guided them properly. All the professor(?) fighting.
Tamala Krsna: Big family.
Guest (1): They are Jains
Prabhupada: Who are these Karmani? They are famous family.
Tamala Krsna: Karmani Chambers.
Indian man: Very big family. Karmani Chambers and Karmani. They are making the electrical towers for transmission. All over India, Asia, they are supplying, very big contractor.
Tamala Krsna: Big family. Very wealthy. [break] I was just explaining to Bhavananda why... [break]
Prabhupada: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dogaccording to my karma, the nature's law will actthen what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tarah sahasrasah: "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is: "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, acaryas. Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. You say, "Oh, they are being liked, eulogized, by so many hundreds and thousands," but what these hundreds and thousands of people are? Sva-vid-varahostra-khara. They're kept in ignorance like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. This propaganda should go on by the ISKCON movement. Bombay is the nicest place. Invite them. Convince them. We have got answers for everyone, however big scientist, big philosopher, big politician. Bhagavata has answered everyone. How selected animals' name has been given. This is Bhagavata. How the comparison is perfect. I have tried to explain why a particular animal has been selected.
Tamala Krsna: That purport is very clear.
Prabhupada: So the sum and substance is that I have got the opportunity of human form, everyone, and they should not be kept in the same animal consciousness. This is civilization. They should be raised to the standard of inquiring. Athato brahma jijnasa. That is civilization. This, civilization? To keep them in darkness? Hm? Sanatana Gosvami went to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The first question is ke ami kene amaya jare tapa-traya. "Sir, I was prime minister, and I was very much eulogized by the people as pandita." Gramya-vyavahare pandita tai satya mani. "These village people, they call me pandita, and I also, such a fool, I accept, 'Yes, I am pandita. Yes.' But factually, if I inquire, 'What kind of pandita'? then apanara hitahita kichui na jani: 'I am such a learned pandita that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of my life. I am such a pandita.' Therefore I have come to You, Caitanya Mahaprabhu. You say what is my ultimate goal of life." This is approaching guru, not that "I am pandita, I am brahmana, or minister. Why shall I go to learn? I can teach everyone whatever nonsense I know. Let them..." What is that injunction? That emasculation? That Sanjay Gandhi became?
Tamala Krsna: Sterilization.
Prabhupada: Rascal, he's a boy, and he thought by sterilization the country will be delivered. Just see. By force. He thought... He became learned leader in one day, and he thought, "This will be sacrifice now." This is going on. "Because I am Indira Gandhi's son, I am perfect." Nature's law"Yes, you are perfect. It is all right. But I kick out in a momentfinished."
Tamala Krsna: Perfect rascal.
Prabhupada: Perfect. They do not know. Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. So at least in India these things should be stopped. That is my ambition. India cannot go in that way. We have got so much stock of knowledge. Bharata-bhumite haila. That I want. Others rascals may be misled, but in India at least there must be an ideal class. That I want. Why India's name should be defamed? That... They are following in the same blind man's way. Therefore I repeatedly said that "I invite you all. Come. Join. Understand." What is this nonsense? "Health. What will be health?" But where is your health, nonsense? You are going to die next moment. And "WHO"? What is that "WHO"?
Tamala Krsna: That Rajneesh.
Prabhupada: Huh? No, no, that...
Guest (2): Question last night.
Prabhupada: United Nation, WHO.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. World Health Organization.
Prabhupada: World Health Organization. Rascal, who is healthy? Everyone is going to die. "World Health Organization." They are manufacturing. They do not think that "Where is health?" Such foolish things are going on all over the world. So organize something reality and spread, slow but sure.
Tamala Krsna: We shouldn't be impatient to compromise just to...
Prabhupada: There is no question of becoming impatient. You have got diamond. No buyer of diamondthat does not mean you have to throw it away.
Tamala Krsna: And sell something less.
Prabhupada: Yes. Diamond is diamond. It must be purchased by the suitable customer. Because there is no customer I shall throw it away? So we have got diamond. It is not possible that everyone will purchase it, but there must be diamonds. People must know that "Here is diamond. If I want it, I must pay the proper price." That I want to establish. Why India's culture should be lost in this way, in the wilderness?I am not cheap patriot like Gandhi and... I want to give Indian culture to the whole world. I'm not going to cheat people, taking Bhagavad-gita and speaking all nonsense. I want to present Bhagavad-gita as it is. That is my mission. Why shall I cheat you, a gentleman? (Hindi)
Guest (1): We'll try to follow your message properly.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Krsna says, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma [Bg. 4.13]. There must be ideal brahmana, ideal ksatriya, ideal vaisya, as Krsna says. That is Krsna consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annad bhavanti bhutani [Bg. 3.14]. Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village sideall vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes...
Tamala Krsna: Wagging it's tail.
Prabhupada: "Give me some food." "Hut hut hut!" Then another animal.(?) And as soon as you give some food, oh, so many"ka,ka,ka,ka,ka,ka,ka." For five hundred posts, 300,000 applications. Did you see that?
Tamala Krsna: Coming in Churchgate.
Prabhupada: No, there was a newspaper publication. For some post there is five hundred posts vacant.
Guest (1): Oh, yes. For application for a job, five jobs and five thousand people applied.
Prabhupada: Five thousand. Is that education? Better not to be educated. Those who are not educated, they purchase ten rupees' worth of potato and sit down anywhere and half... (laughter) Five rupees. Yes.
Guest (1): All vegetable are...
Prabhupada: You take some dal. Go to house to house, dal. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothersunemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something, Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.
Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.
Prabhupada: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss. Krsna says plainly,
"This Bhagavad-gita what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mrtyu-samsara-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said. Mam aprapya: "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Krsna?" No, mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. That you cannot check. You have to die. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? So at least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is para-upakara. This is para-upakara. And that is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.
(Hindi) [break] ...these and some great man, not that they think bad. And if somebody checks me, how great enemy he is.
Tamala Krsna: The natural tendency of the people here is to be God conscious, but the government is artificially checking. Whether this new government will be any different?
Prabhupada: No. The same fools, rascals.
Tamala Krsna: So we have to be very strong in our center here in Bombay.
Prabhupada: We are for everyone. We are not for any nation, any particular person.
Tamala Krsna: Our preaching has to be so strong, it will counteract the government's preaching, the movies and all these other Kali-yuga things.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. All influences.
Tamala Krsna: I wanted to know how... Last night were you having any difficulty? Feeling any difficulty?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Passing... [break]
Prabhupada: Not this section, this nation, this religion, no, not like that. They are going to die, and they're organizing "health." Just see their intelligence. Butchers' health organization. Butcher is going to kill the animal tomorrow, and today he's seeing that health is..., healthy is animal. "Animal is...?" This is... So there is a health organization, WHO? World Health Organization?
Gopala Krsna: Yes. WHO. Geneva.
Prabhupada: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Krsna in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Mayapura. So this is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Bharata-bhumite haila manusya. Why He's stressing bharata-bhumi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gita. Speaking Krsna Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?
Pancadravida: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.
Prabhupada: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.
Gopala Krsna: They agree.
Hrdayananda: They were applauding your lecture last night.
Prabhupada: Our Tamala Krsna appreciated very much.
Tamala Krsna: I loved that lecture.
Hrdayananda: It was wonderful last night.
Tamala Krsna: I told Prabhupada the lecture was like atom bomb.
Prabhupada: Yes. He told like that.
Hrdayananda: Said the atheistic leaders are like animals, stronger animals.
Prabhupada: Yes, big animal.
Hrdayananda: They especially liked your idea of American money and Indian culture.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hrdayananda: They applauded for that.
Prabhupada: That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke, ten lakhs of rupees. Who brings?
Gopala Krsna: Even big export companies don't bring so much.
Prabhupada: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.
Hrdayananda: Your Bombay project is very impressive. We've just taken a tour.
Prabhupada: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."
Tamala Krsna: He had already played the trick with one man.
Prabhupada: Still, I took the risk that "I have no money. If he cheat me, that's all, but let me attempt."
Tamala Krsna: Then you installed the Deity as soon as possible.
Prabhupada: Yes. Immediately Akash Ganga left. All Krsna's desire.
Tamala Krsna: Everyone is appreciating how wonderful this project is, all of Bombay.
Prabhupada: So much obstacles, one after another, one after another, one after another.
Tamala Krsna: Krsna would not leave.
Prabhupada: No. That was my request: "Please sit down here tight. Then I shall do everything."
Pancadravida: Practically, Giriraja has not left either.
Prabhupada: Yes. He has not trembled in any circumstance. That is his qualification. That nasty, hot, mosquitoes. You also lived there. No gentleman can live.
Pancadravida: I lived there also, Srila Prabhupada. So many rats.
Prabhupada: Rats, mosquitoes, and so much inconvenience. Had no place. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes there.
Tamala Krsna: You were also so inconvenienced. You had to move. One time you were living in that...
Prabhupada: But you... For me you make good arrangement wherever I live, that's all. But I know how you were living in that nasty hut, full of dirty things, mosquito, rats, dropping of water. And Nyer is attacking, municipality attacking.
Tamala Krsna: You always said that we were so trained that we would even live on the roadside.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That you are trained. (laughs) You don't care for this palace or underneath a tree.
Tamala Krsna: Formerly we were living like that as hippies, and now we live like that to serve you.
Prabhupada: I was living in Radha-Damodara temple. It was not a palace. But before that, I was living in a palace. That is Kesi-ghata. But this Gosai called me that "You live here?" And "All right." Svarupa Damodara Gosvami's, er, yes, Jiva Gosvami's place. "Let me go there." Now organize. Make very good plan that our Bombay temple will be always crowded with thousands of men and some program must go on.
Tamala Krsna: You mentioned the other day that five hundred devotees should always be there.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. We have got place.
Pancadravida: Bombay?
Prabhupada: We have got place. All right.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So enthusiastic. All young men.
Tamala Krsna: Our enthusiasm is coming from you, Srila Prabhupada. We're simply enthusiastic coming from you.
Prabhupada: I am old man.
Hrdayananda: Oh, Prabhupada!
Pancadravida: Nava-yauvana.
Prabhupada: No, Bali-mardana, where he has...? (end)

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