Bhagatji: First the gurukula children are there. We have to see to the comforts of the gurukula children.

Prabhupada: Their comforts first. They have done very nice. (Hindi conversation) ...university, but producing hippies. (Hindi) Library in your... It is all nonsense. Who is going to read the books, big, big library? It is simply waste of time. Train them how to become self-controlled, how to become God conscious, how to become humble, obedient. This is required. And so-called education and last result is to become a hippie, what is the use? Simply waste of time. Education is meant for the first-class men. A krsana does not require education. He should see how to plow, and he'll learn. This mistri does not require any... He should work with other mistri, and he'll learn. Architecture, this, that, so many... Why? Why waste your time? This nice building has been constructed by these laborers. They have got training by seeing, by practice. They did not require university education. Of course, guide is there. Of course... So these big, big universities, allowing everyone to come and join school, collegesimply wasting time and unemployment. Unemployment. This is not required. Only brahmanas, ksatriyas, those who are being trained up as brahmana and ksatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done. Bas. A weaver, he sees "Kat, kat, kat." He's got it. Does it require M.A., Ph.D.? Simply waste of time. And that is going on. I don't want that, for "Kat, kat, kat," M.A., Ph D. (Bengali) "To kill a mosquito, bring a gun." (laughter) Nonsense education. I don't like that education. All right.

Bhagatji: (Hindi)

Gunarnava: We'll show you the classrooms, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: No, no, he's young man. Anyway, by Krsna's grace everything has been done very nice, by endeavor of Bhagatji. [break]

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) [break]

Gunarnava: I'll take the cows over to Puryanna's. He's out at the gosala. We'll need a lot of milk now.

Prabhupada: Yes. Milk must be there.

Tamala Krsna: So the persons in charge, they have one room for residence and then a room for office?

Prabhupada: That... Very complete. (background talking, devotees) [break]

Tamala Krsna: Five hundred? Is that your program, Prabhupada, five hundred boys?

Prabhupada: At least.

Tamala Krsna: At least five hundred.

Gunarnava: The top portion also will be kept for gurukula purposes. We were thinking the brahmacaris and sannyasis should move from the guesthouse and live on the top.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Gunarnava: So they can mix with the gurukula?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Why not?

Yasodanandana: What about householders and ladies?

Prabhupada: No, no. Not at all.

Dr. Sharma: Here is a complete park. Say boys may play or suppose some function. Here complete and all, outside this...

Tamala Krsna: Where will the garden be?

Dr. Sharma: This side. The center will be a lawn. And then we'll have a garden this side. There must be very full of...

Tamala Krsna: You don't want gardens?

Dr. Sharma: We don't want gardens because mosquitos and so many things will....

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Dr. Sharma: Flowers we'll have but not...

Tamala Krsna: Dr. Sharma, let Prabhupada give his idea. What was your idea, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes, here garden must be here. We want flowers.

Dr. Sharma: Small, say.

Prabhupada: Flower.

Tamala Krsna: He wants gardens.

Prabhupada: Not big tree.

Dr. Sharma: Just for flower bed. In the middle we'll keep the fountain, and all around the fountain...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Fountain in the middle, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes. Garden must be there. And all around, pathway. Very good.

Indian man (2): But Swamiji, the fountain or the garden should be in the center or in one corner?

Prabhupada: No, center.

Indian man (2): The center of this...

Prabhupada: That will be very nice.

Tamala Krsna: Big fountain in the center, just like in your garden there's a big fountain.

Prabhupada: That will be soothing also. All right.

Tamala Krsna: Let's go. [break]

Dr. Sharma: One asrama teacher can supervise all.

Tamala Krsna: The advantage of a big room is that one teacher can watch over many children at one time.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Gunarnava: And also, the other side of the room, right along the whole wing, we have a veranda with doors on the other side so you can just keep going in and out, in and out.

Tamala Krsna: But do the verandas connect? Does it go all the way there.

Gunarnava: Yes. It's all one.

Prabhupada: So bank building is down?

Gunarnava: Bank building is downstairs.

Prabhupada: So we can go down.

Gunarnava: We'll go downstairs to the bank.

Tamala Krsna: What are the upstairs rooms like, like these rooms?

Gunarnava: Yeah, same size as this.

Devotee (3): Smaller sizes.

Gunarnava: Varied sizes.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, do you want to see one or two rooms upstairs? They're different than this.

Prabhupada: No... Different?

Tamala Krsna: They're smaller sized.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Gunarnava: Not so small. [break] Other side is east.

Prabhupada: This is southern.

Dr. Sharma: This? This is south. This is south, this is north, this is east, this is west.

Tamala Krsna: Which is east?

Prabhupada: All right. In winter it will be very good.

Tamala Krsna: It'll be warm in the winter.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: They'll get warmth from it.

Prabhupada: Morning sunlight.

Tamala Krsna: Tremendous building.

Prabhupada: Hm. I think there is no other building in Vrndavana.

Gunarnava: It's the biggest building in Vrndavana.

Tamala Krsna: You've done it again, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Yes, I gave the ideas to Saurabha: "Make a design."

Gunarnava: It's very protected, too, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: People will compare this to a fort.

Prabhupada: Yes. All right.

Gunarnava: Go down to the bank. Go downstairs to the bank.

Prabhupada: You have asked the bank manager?

Tamala Krsna: Aksayananda Maharaja, have you asked the bank manager to come here?

Aksayananda: Yeah, he's coming.

Prabhupada: When?

Aksayananda: He's notifying us. What time he said?

Indian man (4): I don't know. I am going now.

Aksayananda: You're going now. At ten o'clock. [break]

Prabhupada: "And that is mine." Because you have got enough space, "I shall keep one leg in another place, one leg in another place," and then whole thing will be planning. Don't do this. Don't misuse even one thing.

Aksayananda: Just take what is necessary.

Prabhupada: Hm. Properly utilize. (Hindi) Everything should be properly utilized. That is management, to not mix even.

Gunarnava: You were saying you wanted five hundred students, so we should keep as much space as possible for the students...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gunarnava: ...on these floors. If we have administrative offices mixing...

Prabhupada: No, no, we have to invite them. Otherwise what is the use, for four students, such a building? And simply managers? That is not good. There must be students, not that four students and three dozen managers.

Gunarnava: No.

Prabhupada: It has no... That is waste. Then the whole thing is waste. There must be five hundred students and ten managers. That's all. Then it is good. Is that all right? Mr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Teachers should be so expert that they can deal with many students.

Prabhupada: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brahmana, brahmacari. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, sudra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"

Dr. Sharma: Indians also?

Prabhupada: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Aksayananda: Before he went to America.

Prabhupada: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.

Tamala Krsna: That means we have to canvass vigorously to get students.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Aksayananda: We have to preach.

Prabhupada: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Tamala Krsna: They're not going to come of their own. We have to go out and get them.

Prabhupada: They will come later on, when they will see: "Yes..."

Yasodanandana: First we have to get the ISKCON students first.

Prabhupada: ISKCON or FISKCON, bring students. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Prabhupada, these students can come, any number you like.

Prabhupada: So that I want. I want the number. It doesn't matter ISKCON or FISKCON.

Dr. Sharma: No, I mean to say, free, no charge.

Prabhupada: That means they'll not come from such a good family.

Dr. Sharma: Good family. That is the idea.

Gunarnava: They'll be low class.

Prabhupada: So that you cannot do.

Tamala Krsna: Those people don't need that education so much.

Prabhupada: They should be trained up in the field, to the weaving practice or something like that. They don't require education.

Aksayananda: Intelligent class.

Prabhupada: Intelligent class. We cannot make them interested. Some of them may come out, but not all. It is not possible.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, sometimes wealthy people are afraid that if their sons come to this gurukula, they'll become sadhus.

Prabhupada: So that I am seeing, how to... That was the problem. They said, "What will be the benefit, satyavadi?" Satya samo damo titiksa, jnana... (Hindi) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Prabhupada: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Krsna wants to impress in the beginning, na jayate na mriyate va. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...this manager, that manager. But who to manage? Bring that first. (Hindi) In Bengali there is a superstition that "Don't keep your head towards the northern side." So the man said, "I have no head. Where is the question of keeping northern side or southern side?" So you are contemplating all management. First of all bring whom to manage. Simply office manager, this, that and... Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. (Hindi) All right.

Gunarnava: Take Prabhupada to the bank.

Prabhupada: Utilize it very properly. So where is the bank manager?

Aksayananda: They're calling for him, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So calling from yesterday, but still... Calling? Then let me talk.

Tamala Krsna: This is also very nice for the bank. I mean, they get a whole front courtyard.

Prabhupada: That is very nice, wonderful. They are... In this side, they can make counter.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Plenty of space for a bank.

Prabhupada: I'll talk with...

Gopala Krsna: Actually even Punjab National Bank downtown doesn't have this big an office.

Prabhupada: No.

Gunarnava: It's bigger than the downtown office of Punjab National Bank.

Gopala Krsna: All the banks.

Gunarnava: It's big.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Let him come. I shall talk.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya. Do you want us... Is there anything else to see...?

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: That's all.

Prabhupada: And very nice.

Gunarnava: Jaya. Glories to Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Now, the first thing is, bring student. Then it will be successful, very good.

Gunarnava: Jaya Prabhupada. (kirtana) (end)