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770418r2.bom
Morning Talk
April 18, 1977, Bombay Prabhupada: But if he's not Krsna conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Aruhya krcchrena, great hardship. Similarly, the Mayavadis, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmi, jnani, yogi, politicians, and everyoneeveryone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Krsna, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls downnot like them-he'll be again picked up by Krsna. This is the science, Krsna consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmi to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmi had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?
Prabhupada: I have given this example, our court case, that the case would have been continued for years, but one day... Even though there was some difficulty, it is finished. So our enemies, they tried to block our march, but we shall kick on their head and progress our endif we stick to our principles. These things... I have discussed this nicely. How do you think?
Prabhupada: Practically...? Eh?
Prabhupada: This is fact. So always remain very, very faithful to Krsna and guru. Guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Remain... So don't care for anything, any, the deprogrammer, and what are others? Eh? What are others?
Prabhupada: That is the... Now at least in America nobody can do that, deprogramming?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: Can? The... How?
Tamala Krsna: This court case has not stopped them from deprogramming. It has established... It's a precedent case, which makes it very difficult. But they can still try. In different states they are still pressing for other laws. It wasn't...
Prabhupada: But the airport authorities, they're also coming favorably.
Prabhupada: Gradually they'll come. We haven't got to be afraid of all, anything. That is the point.
Prabhupada: We have not minimized our program.
Prabhupada: Yes. Being afraid of them, we have not decreased our activities.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. That's the point. These other groups in America, they lost their court cases, and they are either kicked out or minimizing their programs. They're hiding now. But we are increasing.
Prabhupada: That is the point.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Prabhupada: No. (laughs) They know Krsna is there. As soon as there is danger... There is torrents of rain. Innocent, they do not know. Krsna: "Yes! Come on." They come, "Come on under the umbrella. Let there be rain. Now they are safe." Then Indra could understand, "Oh, the challenge... My Lord..." He was surprised that "A boy, cowherd boy, these people, they're worshiping as God? Oh, that may be..." Brahma challenged, "This cowherd boy..."
Prabhupada: Who Krsna was, they knew it. But "This cowherd boy is Krsna?" Just like we are also despising these so-called avataras. That does not mean we do not know Krsna. We know actually Krsna. Therefore we despise all these rascals, "avatara." Their master is Krsna they know. They're servants. Otherwise how they are devata? But the mistake was that "My master has come, has become a cowherd boy and playing with insignificant and boys and girls, and He is my master?" That is going on. Surayah. Muhyanti yat surayah. You know this, the Bhagavata? Muhyanti yat surayah. Great, great stalwart demigods, they also become bewildered to understand. Janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas carthesu abhijnah sva-rat tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah [SB 1.1.1]. Just like such a big lawyer, he is asking, "Whether Krsna is fictitious or fact?"
Prabhupada: Not they accept that this Krsna, historical Krsna, He is the person, Supreme Person. Ninety-nine point nine percent, they do not believe. "It is a fictitious story written about God, but not that this Krsna is God." This is their opinion. Therefore Dr. Radhakrishnan: "No, no, not this Krsna personally." Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktahhe is guiding: "Don't be attached to this Krsna." Doesn't want. He was a very good gentleman, at heart devotee of God, but he could not understand Krsna. He used to say to me... I was very intimate with, with him, with Dr. Radhakrishnan.
Prabhupada: Yes. I used to go whenever I liked.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.
Prabhupada: No, that time he was finished.
Prabhupada: No... I used to go to see him even at his house without engagement. And he liked me. He gave me many.... The Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion. He gave some... I wrote correspondence with him. So he used to say, "Kindly pray to God for my salvation." He was not void. He was fearing God. But he did not accept this Krsna.
Prabhupada: In my paper I criticized him, "Scholars Deluded." I gave him criticism.
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) Even then you were doing that. It's always amazing how, to me, you can practically, whenever you meet these big men, you kick them on the head and then you make them like it. Just like this lawyer. You told him, "This dog civilization..." Practically you were telling him that "You are acting like that." But still, he liked it. And at the pandal you were doing the same.
Prabhupada: Still, the Chief Minister applauded.
Tamala Krsna: Because you present it so truthfully that they have to admit and look at themselves and admit, "Yes, you are right. We are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses."
Prabhupada: I gave practical example, hanging in railway...
Prabhupada: One gentleman came: "Sir, you are..." So he might be one of the hanging passengers.
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) That was funny. When you said that, the Chief Minister was laughing. At that point he was smiling. Everyone in that crowd was thinking, "Yes. He's talking about me."
Prabhupada: Is that civilization? Human being should be calm and quiet, peaceful and advanced in Krsna consciousness. There must be four divisions, brahmana, ksatriya, everything. Everything is lost. From the very morning, "Where is bread? Where is bread?" We have no fixed income, but we are so pure(?). We are maintaining big establishment. Who has got so big establishment? And what is our asset? Asset is only Krsna. For ordinary karmis to maintain such house and such big establishment...
Prabhupada: He'll have insomnia, cannot sleep at night. What would have been the cost of the establishment? So many men are working.
Prabhupada: This is one only.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: No, it's not possible. Neither it's possible that... Just like yesterday Krsna sends you a man who says, "Sir, I would like to translate your books into Russian." You did not go canvassing for Russian translator. Every single thing is coming... Krsna is sending to you.
Prabhupada: So take shelter of Krsna's lotus feet. That is the only way. Then everything is all right.
samasrita ye pada-pallava-plavam
mahat-padam punya-yaso murareh bhavambudhir vatsa-padam param padam padam padam yad vipadam na tesam [SB 10.14.58] Bhagavata is giving you Krsna. Therefore everyone should read Bhagavata, Bhagavad-gita. So this is the parampara system, we are giving. In future if they follow, they will also be delivered(?). This is wanted. We have made some plan. We are making. So this will be left. When we shall die this will be left. And anyone who will accept this parampara system will be promoted to Krsna. (Upendra enters)
Prabhupada: Yes.
Upendra: ...to request?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: The same thing.
Upendra: Same thing as yesterday.
Prabhupada: Same thing. Little fruit and... I think this nim, green liniment, you take, like...(?) Show him how to do.
Tamala Krsna: For applying nim plaster on the foot you make it into a paste, then put. And then some bandage over it to keep it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: You can make nim paste, and make it hot. Apply that.
Prabhupada: Just like in a pot, you put on the fire. It will be hot. And apply it, and over that, one leaf. Otherwise, it will leak out.
Prabhupada: Nim leaf or any leaf, under the bandage. You can do it nicely.
Prabhupada: If there is no need of bandage, then you can make...
Prabhupada: If you apply twice, thrice...
Prabhupada: Simple life, Krsna shelter, it is everything. Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Tesam nityabhiyuktanam yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Ananyas cintayanto mam ye janah... All the difficulties will be overcome as long as you stick to the..., follow acarya. Others will come and go. Make things a little..., correctly going on. That's all.
Prabhupada: ...so that he can...(?) "I love them best." Na ca tasman manusyesu... [Bg. 18.69]. "In the human society he is My most dear servant." It is clearly stated.
Prabhupada: He's preaching His glory. He is everything, and these rascals are denying. And He comes: "No, no, no, no. It is wrong." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. And a preacher means he is doing that, training people how to surrender to Krsna. Will he not be...? He is... A preacher is giving real sense. To awaken this sense, Krsna had to come personally. And he is doing the same work: "Surrender to Krsna." How much great service it is. Prahlada Maharaja... He is asking, his father, that "Why you are training them to Krsna?" "Better surrender. He has given you so much strength, so much power." That was... Prahlada Maharaja has given him. In spite of so much trouble given to him, he was speaking the same thing repeatedly: "Father, don't do this. Become a devotee." Stubborn. He was giving advice. This is the struggle between devotee and nondevotee. Therefore devotees are so dear to Krsna. Despite all opposition, meeting all difficulties, they will say, "No, there is God. We must surrender." So he'll not be very dear? Just like soldiers for the country. They are meeting danger.
Prabhupada: Yes. And the government gives them all facilities because they are dear patriots, laying down their life. During war everything is controlled, but they are supplied with immense. One store is destroyed; another one store is ready. Those who have gone to the warfield, they are... Because they have got that store of food and everything, sufficient, whatever they like, want. Now, in one point they have to go away. So how they can take the store? So from one point to another point there is another store. This store is blown, that enemy may not take advantage of it. This is going on, hundreds and thousands of worth of goods-blown, cut. Because they are going to another point and the enemies will take advantage of the store, therefore they blown it. Therefore in war there is store scarcity. And that Sadananda, you know that, my German Godbrother? So he was lean and thin, tall. So I was asking him that "I have heard that the Germans are very stout and strong, so why you are so lean and thin?" So he gave me, gave me condition that in the first war he was a child. So there was so much control, only weekly he could get a little butter. He showed a, this spot, like that. "Because we were children, we were supplied little butter, weekly this much. There was no nourishment. And we had to eat anything nonsense." Germans, they were given much tribulation, all sides. Still, they fought the French. All sides, enemies. But still, the Germans are well-to-do. I have seen. In other countries they are well-to-do.
Prabhupada: No, their position, economic position, is also better than France, England. I have seen it. Even in the villages they are well-to-do. They have recouped all they have lost.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. Belgium, you go through Belgium, it's still devastated. And Germany is completely built up.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. I think in... For culture, France, and for improvement, economic development, they have done in Germany.
Prabhupada: Britain is... They are shopkeepers. Hitler gave them this title, "Shopkeepers' Nation." That was his determination: "The shopkeepers' nation, I shall turn them again to be shopkeepers, not the empire holder." That he did. Although he was finished-Germany was finished on account of thisbut they executed their determination, British empire finished. That they did. After the second war, British...
Prabhupada: Now they are poverty-stricken.
Prabhupada: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.
Prabhupada: Because that was his determination. "I shall finish this British nation. Everywhere they have got flag, all over the world, I shall finish." That he did. And Britishers saved because the Americans joined. Otherwise... Churchill, he removed all valuables from London to Canada, all papers, all gold stock, everything. There is a book about this. Just like when there is danger you rush to save some valuables. Is it not?
Prabhupada: Yes. So British Empire, so many things in London, he all removed to Canada.
Prabhupada: Then, after war they might have brought again.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, just like when the Muslims attacked India they removed the Deities from Vrndavana to Jaipur.
Prabhupada: Jaipur.
Prabhupada: Yes. Valuable.
Prabhupada: Krsna.
Prabhupada: Visnujana Swami committed suicide, I think.
Prabhupada: Visnujana?
Prabhupada: There is no information.
Tamala Krsna: No. None at all. Everybody thinks that he must have drowned himself in one of the rivers here in India, because the day that he disappeared he asked you a question, out of..., just without any reason he asked you to explain the disappearance of Junior Haridasa. That was on the roof at Mayapura. Thereafter, that morning, he was not seen again. And neither, I think... He's not in the West... In America no one has seen him. His parents have searched for him. They cannot find him.
Prabhupada: Even if he has committed suicide, he'll be saved.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. He lamented. He was very grave(?). Yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate. He'll get another good opportunity to develop Krsna consciousness-until finally he reaches to Krsna.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. And that seems to be more in fitting with his character, very, very... I don't think he left. I don't think he left and went back to the material world. It doesn't seem to fit his...
Prabhupada: All right. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/apr/morning_talk/bombay/april/18/1977 Previous: Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay Next: Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay
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