Room Conversation

May 7, 1976, Honolulu
Prabhupada: First business, how to get our books. (indistinct) For Russia export from India will be favorable. So government paper we are printing seven, eight rupees price. Make that addition, all the books. Ask them to take paper from the government, huge quantity, and all these books should be published immediately, 5,000 books.
Tamala Krsna: 5,000 copies each.
Prabhupada: Yes, if possible, minimum 1,000.
Tamala Krsna: Last time we were speaking, I was mentioning to you that in Russia they are particularly inclined towards an exchange program of books, where we give our books and they will give some useless books.
Prabhupada: (indistinct), why should we do this?
Tamala Krsna: You mentioned last time you will throw them away.
Prabhupada: For us there is no readable books in the whole world.
Prabhupada: We cannot waste our time.
Tamala Krsna: No, of course. But is there any, I mean, of course we would like to...
Prabhupada: But only some of the authorized books, just to take their parts(indistinct) and to refute, otherwise, we haven't got to take lesson from anyone.
Prabhupada: This is a fact. All rascal speculators, what value they have got?
Tamala Krsna: Supposing there are many thousands of libraries in Russia and they are agreeable to placing say one of our books of each book in each of the libraries, but they are not willing to purchase all these books, but they are willing to give us some books in exchange, will we make this sacrifice? Because it will represent a loss of money?
Prabhupada: No, if you can arrange for selling those (books) at any cost.
Tamala Krsna: We can arrange to sell our books to them at any cost?
Prabhupada: No, no, exchange.
Tamala Krsna: We can sell, there is some set resale value. Then we can realize some money.
Prabhupada: Yes, then it is alright.
Tamala Krsna: They'll have value. There will be some money. We can request them to send some samples of the books that they will return to us. Then we can...
Prabhupada: Find out cost. Some shopkeepers, stores. Some return. If we can get our cost price of the books.
Tamala Krsna: We should get cost price.
Prabhupada: Not should, but must as far as possible.
Guru-krpa: I've heard that in Russia the people are so eager to read imported literature that any literature appears they immediately buy it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: There's a black market going on in Russia, particularly black market on books. Books are smuggled into the country and sold and they're very dearly read. People are very anxious.
Prabhupada: Yes. They must be because they are keeping in darkness.
Prabhupada: These nasty countries, in the name of giving them material facility, they'll kill them, even they're independent. Such a horrible country. How people can tolerate loss of independence? It is very horrible. I am sitting here 24 hours, this is another thing, but if I understand that I cannot go out, I have to sit down here, oh it is horrible. It is a horrible condition. Simply this impression that I have to keep myself within this room, although I am keeping myself, I am not going, only for walk maybe. But if the impression is that I cannot go out from this room, then my life is lost. This is psychology. So, they are keeping their young men. They are not allowed to go out of the country, in Russia. Similarly in China.
Tamala Krsna: Even more so.
Prabhupada: So what kind of government it is? It is a horrible government. And they are hackney only in literature. These communist country, the people are forced to accept the government regulation. And that is all bad. I have seen in Moscow, generally the people are morose, their face not very happy. They are also Europeans, they want freedom to go here and there (indistinct) and to work. The taxi driver-first of all there is scarcity of taxi, you can not get taxi...
Guru-krpa: Even in Moscow, big city.
Prabhupada: Yes. That Professor Kotofsky, I asked him, "Please arrange for a taxi." (indistinct) "Well, Swamiji, this is Moscow." So he came down to the gatehe was very virtuoushe showed me, "You go this way, actually there was 3 or 4 lane then you find a short lane, then you go this way, this way, then you get to your hotel. He showed me some short cut, personally. They... He could not call a taxi. And somewhere we went, we got a taxi, private taxi, and that man was begging for more than the fare.
Tamala Krsna: That means the system...
Prabhupada: "Can you not give me little more?"
Tamala Krsna: That means the system is a failure.
Prabhupada: And then I could understand. And they have got that there is tourist bus, taking here and there, that bus is third class. Even less opulent than in India.
Tamala Krsna: How many days were you there?
Prabhupada: One week.
Tamala Krsna: Short. You were only in Moscow?
Guru-krpa: That is the rich city. People are fighting to get into that city, they only allow so many people to live there.
Prabhupada: Everything restricted.
Guru-krpa: You cannot just decide to move to Moscow. You cannot do that. You must take permission from the government to live in Moscow.
Prabhupada: Everything..., and we could not get nice food. There was no nice rice, wheat, fruit, flour, nothing. Fruit means the strawberries. I don't remember we could get any other fruit.
Tamala Krsna: Perhaps you went at a bad season.
Prabhupada: No, no. Everything is controlled. Whatever government will give you, they have to accept. And all the stores, it is just like, what is called? The old?
Tamala Krsna: Grocery store?
Prabhupada: Antique, antique, antique shop. That means no purchaser. People have no p..., no bank. People have no money, simply bare necessities of life their government supplies. And bus transport, buses standing in one place, best time, and people are running after. Women, men, mostly they walk.
Tamala Krsna: Or bicycles.
Prabhupada: Bicycle, I did not...
Guru-krpa: I think they must all wear the same clothes.
Prabhupada: I did not study so much. Yes, there is no gorgeousness.
Tamala Krsna: In China they all wear the same clothes. Whatever you saw in Russia, China is ten times more oppressive. It is much more oppressive. They say that Russia is a complete failure, because they are allowing so much looseness. The Chinese are accusing the Russians of being very loose and very capitalistic inclined. China is very dissatisfied that Russians have given up the principles of Marx and they have taken after the western ways. Preferring one group above another group.
Prabhupada: Because Russia was afraid of another revolution. People were preparing. So much pressure, intolerance, after all they are Europeans, so there was a chance of revolution.
Hari-sauri: Especially after Stalin. So many people were killed and sent to prison camps. That was the way that they enforced...
Prabhupada: Stalin is calculated to be greatest criminal in the world. He has killed so many men. All rogues. We were taken through the neighborhood of all aristocratic men who were killed in the revolution.
Tamala Krsna: While reading about China, one of the books I was reading also described Cambodia, Vietnam and Korea. And the recent histories of these countries are so horrible, that the... Mostly in that part of the world now they have become totally anti-American. They are very, very anti-American because of what the Ameri... The Americans have simply gone there and...
Guru-krpa: Not Korea.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Tamala Krsna: North Koreans don't love Americans.
Guru-krpa: No, not north Koreans, South Koreans.
Tamala Krsna: But now Korea is united.
Guru-krpa: No.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes, I've been reading, they hate the Americans in North Korea.
Guru-krpa: Trivikrama has left Korea now, he went to... He's left. He's in Japan.
Prabhupada: Oh. He could not do anything?
Guru-krpa: I don't know, he has left there. He went for 3 weeks and left. Now he's in Japan. I don't know where. He's doing something.
Prabhupada: If he could not do anything, he can come back to America. What do you think?
Tamala Krsna: I think that it's good for him to come back to America. He's been away from America for 5 or 6 years now.
Prabhupada: Yes, let him come back.
Tamala Krsna: He can preach in colleges. It would be a very purifying experience. Being by oneself for so long in that part of the world is very difficult.
Prabhupada: To remain alone is risky. (pause) Now China wants to control India.
Tamala Krsna: And also Russia.
Prabhupada: Also Russia. China would have attacked, they once attempted, American equipment. They are thinking, that because the officers are corrupt, the people are dissatisfied and if we go, they will welcome.
Tamala Krsna: Exactly correct. Oh yes, it's a perfect analysis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: They believe that the... Of course it's a fact, the leaders are very corrupt, but the people want the change, that's what they believe. "And if we go, the people will work with us and overthrow this government and establish a true communistic government, a government for all the benefit the people." That's their idea. They feel that way about the whole world, the Chinese. They feel in America alsoof course that's nonsensebut they think like that. That in America there is a huge working class and the working class are feeling oppressed. But that's nonsense.
Prabhupada: I think American working class are paid more than any country.
Tamala Krsna: The average income in the United States now...
Guru-krpa: You know a man who lays bricks, a brick layer, in India he gets paid 10 rupees a day...
Prabhupada: Utmost.
Guru-krpa: And here he gets paid twelve dollars an hour.
Prabhupada: Bricklayer.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, twelve dollars an hour.
Guru-krpa: So one hundred dollars a day.
Prabhupada: Oh, it is impossible to engage.
Tamala Krsna: Oh yeah, very expensive.
Guru-krpa: Construction worker, just to build a simple building, they charge construction about nine dollars an hour, every man, minimum, unskilled man, nine dollars an hour.
Prabhupada: Then, how it will be possible?
Tamala Krsna: We were discussing this. The way to do it, is that you get some person... There are many persons all over the country who are knowledgeable, who can do the work, but who are friendly. Just like in many temples that I visited, they have people, professionals who are working, but they are young men and because they are friendly towards our society, they'll do the work for less money. I'm sure that there are people who can be found like that here.
Prabhupada: American devotee, Asian, and Australian devotee.
Guru-krpa: I think it can be done amongst our devotees.
Prabhupada: Mm. We are not very anxious to get done immediately, we shall do slowly.
Guru-krpa: So we are, me and Tamala Krsna, we have organized the sankirtana here. The sankirtana should increase about ten times. Before they were doing three hundred dollars a day, now they should be doing at about one thousand three hundred dollars a day.
Prabhupada: That is nice.
Tamala Krsna: Therefore I think if we have profit, fifty percent can go for books, and fifty percent can be banked. And when they have enough money, then we can build the temple. But it's the only question...
Prabhupada: No, with what, whatever collection is there, fifty percent, go on. Why wait?
Guru-krpa: And what about my collections in Japan?
Prabhupada: We also spent here for the time.
Guru-krpa: 'Cause I will be getting nice collections this year.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-krpa: I will bank it here?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-krpa: It should come here?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Tamala Krsna: The construction in Mayapura...
Guru-krpa: It's just that I don't have...
Prabhupada: You have paid?
Tamala Krsna: From Radha-Damodara party?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: We were doing that, previous to the Mayapura festival.
Prabhupada: Yes are also promised (indistinct) you have to continue. There is no temple. Must be constructed.
Guru-krpa: Do you think... Some of the devotees were expressing that maybe in the front would be better, then they could come in off the street. Otherwise they have to go around the...
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Guru-krpa: If the building was built in the front, some people were thinking this might be a better spot because if there's no sun back here...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Guru-krpa: ...then it becomes very muddy there.
Prabhupada: What is the area here?
Guru-krpa: Oh, it's bigger.
Prabhupada: Bigger?
Guru-krpa: Yes. And they say these neighbors back here are the ones that do all the complaining. So some were expressing that this might be better, they could come in off the street. Also, many tourists come to Hawaii, and if we make it very nice, then they can, many tourist buses may come here to see the temple. So if it is near the gate then you'll come right out. But it's just that I have no knowledge how to build anything.
Prabhupada: So?
Guru-krpa: Myself, how to go about it. I don't have any experience or knowledge of that.
Prabhupada: No, you have no experience. I know, so that Australian boy who works constantly, there is one temple,...
Guru-krpa: Bhaskara, yeah he's in New York.
Prabhupada: He can come and help.
Tamala Krsna: He'll be free pretty soon.
Guru-krpa: Someone has to organize for the construction though. That's the main thing, then later the inside.
Tamala Krsna: In Mayapur they are completing the, um, that building? They had begun that long residential building.
Prabhupada: Which one?
Tamala Krsna: The one while we were there.
Prabhupada: Uhuh.
Tamala Krsna: I remember they were doing the first, ground floor, I think you told them to.
Prabhupada: They are completing.
Tamala Krsna: What about the other side?
Prabhupada: That side also scheduled to begin.
Tamala Krsna: And Bombay also has to be finished.
Prabhupada: Mm.
Tamala Krsna: So sufficient funds have to be sent for completing Bombay in 10 months' time and for those 2 buildings in Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Bombay, the slab is late, temple. Latest letter?
Hari-sauri: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Very nice. And the tower (indistinct). I think it will be finished earlier.
Tamala Krsna: Any more news on the attempt of the government to take it back?
Prabhupada: The government, I know it will be unable to take. They can not acquire temple, there is no such law. And even they acquire we shall say, alright take it. (indistinct) ...and the Hindus will... (indistinct) ...neglect, all right we will do it.
Tamala Krsna: A book should be written about the Bombay...
Prabhupada: Yes, that... One lady, Nirmala,...
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Dr. Singhal's wife.
Prabhupada: Yes, she has already sent some article, why it is not published?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, whenever I see her she asks, "Why they don't publish?"
Prabhupada: Yes, and they inquire.
Tamala Krsna: So we should start to make enquiry now throughout the world, how to push these books forward. Just as you are pointing out-sending books from India to Russiain this way there may be so many arrangements.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Just find out what is the venues to push our books. As much as possible.
Tamala Krsna: Should I concentrate my time for this?
Prabhupada: Yes, only. This will be your only business. All over the world, see how the books can be pushed. In their language or in English, now we have got several languages. You have seen the latest Portuguese edition?
Guru-krpa: Spanish.
Prabhupada: Spanish. You have seen?
Tamala Krsna: I don't think I have.
Prabhupada: Give it to him.
Hari-sauri: It's on the bottom shelf.
Prabhupada: Last.
Tamala Krsna: This one?
Prabhupada: Last, last book, yes.
Tamala Krsna: Whew, very handsome.
Prabhupada: Yes, they have done very nice.
Tamala Krsna: That's the idea. If books like this can be introduced, I'm certain that every single Spanish embassy around the world will take a book like this for their library. And there's plenty of them, there's many nations.
Prabhupada: Eventual standing order, in all the libraries. So they will take. And the get-up is so nice.
Tamala Krsna: Beautiful. Yeah, that book is nice, the color is good.
Prabhupada: This is printed in America also. American books.
Tamala Krsna: Printed in...
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: USA.
Prabhupada: In this way if possible print in Russian language, in black market.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's possible and they'll be eager.
Devotee: The young people are dissatisfied, young student.
Prabhupada: Small books print first of all, see. How the black market takes it, and then big books.
Tamala Krsna: There is also all of the eastern European countries.
Prabhupada: Yes, they have got black market. There must be intermediate man who deals in black market.
Tamala Krsna: There is.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. Get them. Let them make good profit. We want to put up, that's all. And let them take money, we don't mind. Sathe sathum samacaret. When there is trickery, you become trickery. Sathe sathum samacaret. Krsna's play, those who are plain, Krsna is very kind and plain. Those who are tricky, "All right, I am also tricky." We shall adopt all the means of the materialistic persons, simply for Krsna. [break] Just like Krsna's rasa dance, any materialistic person at the dead of night will be glad to dance with young girls, what is the difference? [break] But because it was Krsna's dancing, so this association of the woman and Krsna is taken by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the first class worship. ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena ya kalpita. Krsna should become a little tricky with the gopis, "Oh, you have come in dead of night, what your husband, father would think, and there are so many (indistinct) and saintly (indistinct), please get out immediately." You have got that?
Devotees: Mm, hm.
Prabhupada: And the gopis were thinking "What this rascal says, say?" (chuckles) They are so sorry that, "We have come leaving everything and this rascal is giving us moral instruction." This is love, they can chastise Krsna. [break] ...somehow or other, black market, white market, red market. Let them make... And as soon as there is taste, there will be very good demand. And this black marketeer will make profit and they'll do. This Chinese policy or the Russian policy will not stand. Simply we require to make ourselves strong. As soon as we become stronger than the communist movement, we shall finish it.
Tamala Krsna: Finish everyone?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: You mean attack them?
Prabhupada: That I shall tell later. You become little strong. We cannot allow them. Because Krsna's policy is, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. You have to take that policy.
Tamala Krsna: In Vrndavana, one day, on a walk you were saying that Krsna's soldiers will walk all over the world and they will approach everyone and say, "Do you believe in Krsna?" And if they say, "No," immediately, kill them.
Prabhupada: Not kill them with weapon, but kill them by sankirtana. They are already dead, so physically killing is for very big, big, strong man like Mao, or this Lenin, like that. Not common people, they have to be shown mercy.
Hari-sauri: More a question of revival, for the common people, more a question of revival.
Prabhupada: If they allow us to forward our movement, then we are satisfied. And when there is hindrance, the person who is hindering, finished. But don't do it now, (chuckles) then you will be finished.
Tamala Krsna: Do you think the time will come when we will...?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Because Krsna has two business, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. We are for delivering all people. Anyone who will put hindrance, then we have to finish. Not small, big. That is going on all over the world, politics.
Guru-krpa: Canakya Pandita, he also...
Prabhupada: That is the way everywhere. [break] They will be automatically finished. Just like the Ramakrishna Mission, who are advertising that they have got wonderful importance. They are now finished. They are simply making false propaganda in India. Actually, they have got fangs, what is called, fangs?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: The quality?
Devotees: Fangs.
Prabhupada: Fangs, fangs. That is broken. So make... First of all try to push books, everywhere all over the world. They have got so many languages, like Russian or... Blackmarket. Chinese also. Blackmarket, they cannot check.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, no, and you don't need permission either.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: And there's more profit too.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: In black market.
Prabhupada: Ah yes, if there is demand, then you will make good profit also. And there will be demand.
Hari-sauri: They'll be big demand for your books.
Tamala Krsna: Very big, very big.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) They sent one translation of Tulasi dasa's Rama-caritra-manasa. It was sold, all, in a week. And therefore they have stopped now.
Tamala Krsna: Well, really?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guru-krpa: It is Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Prabhupada: They sent (indistinct), Bhagavad-gita.
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes I wonder thatof course we want our books to be translated by our own menbut in the absence of sufficient translators...
Prabhupada: (indistinct) ...that thing you see that er, our men means they know the philosophy. Otherwise they do not know, that is the difficulty.
Tamala Krsna: Supposing we haveI'm just using this hypothetical...
Prabhupada: Any, "our man" who knows Russian language, he should check.
Tamala Krsna: Professionals may translate, but one of our men may check?
Prabhupada: Yes, just like our books are being done in Germany now.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Yeah, then you can have quite a few books translated. Because if we only depend on our men for the entire translating work, it will never get done.
Prabhupada: No, no, then get professional man, but he may not create the havoc.
Tamala Krsna: No, he must be checked by someone who knows. Whew, this is exciting. I'd love to see your Bhagavad-gita, the most widely read blackmarket book in Russia.
Prabhupada: Then that will create revolution.
Tamala Krsna: Whew. These books are very revolutionary. You are very strong. You have put everything in a very clear-cut, strong words. You have attacked everyone who is not Krsna conscious, as fools and rascals.
Prabhupada: (laughs) This is fact, it is not exaggeration.
Tamala Krsna: In your article in Back to Godhead about Marx, you call him a nonsense, you call Marxism nonsense.
Prabhupada: Yes, what is his philosophy? (sic:) Dialectitude?
Tamala Krsna: Dialectic Materialism.
Prabhupada: So, we have written one Dialectic Spiritualism.
Hari-sauri: Harikesa's.
Prabhupada: Harikesa.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, he read it to us. He's preaching, I think in Eastern Europe sometimes. We got a report. Has he written you?
Prabhupada: Yes. I heard that, but is he being alright or not?
Tamala Krsna: From the report it appears that he goes occasionally into some eastern European countries. Mostly he's concentrating in England, Germany and Scandinavias. He has a party and they are doing speaking engagements and distributing books. And sometimes he went in which countries?
Devotee: Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Budapest.
Tamala Krsna: He is going to some communist European countries.
Devotee: They make their vans with false bottoms and they hide the books underneath so at the border they do not see. Underneath the van is all your books. When they get in the country then they distribute the books to these centers.
Tamala Krsna: Revolution.
Prabhupada: It is very nice.
Devotee: Sometimes he said when he's speaking, the translator will not say what he is saying because it's...
Tamala Krsna: Sometimes he forgets-usually he speaks very carefully-guarded words. But once or twice he says, he starts speaking direct Krishna consciousness and the translator looks at him and won't translate it into the local language. Sometimes he forgets himself and starts speaking about Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the translator suddenly looks at him. Usually he covers everything.
Prabhupada: He has done a good job.
Tamala Krsna: He is a fit person, very intelligent.
Prabhupada: So in this way... You are all intelligent, you can plan. The aim is how to distribute books. That is first consideration. [break] In Bhagavata it is very figuratively described that we have got this body and the different parts. Just like Arjuna is sitting on the chariot. There is chariot driver, there are horses, reins. There is field, and the arrow, and the bow. They have been figuratively. So this can be used for killing the enemies of our Krsna Consciousness and then give up all this paraphernalia, chariot, we... Just like after fighting, only victory, then you kill them. And similarly this body is there, the mind is there, the senses are there. So utilize it for conquering over this material existence. And then give up this body and go back to home.
Tamala Krsna: Does the devotee, I mean just like you are always enthusing us to push on...
Prabhupada: That is sharpening your weapons. That is also described. By serving the spiritual master, you keep your weapon always sharpened. And then take help from Krsna, the words of spiritual master sharpen weapon and yasya prasadad bhagavata..., and the spiritual master is happy, then Krsna immediately will help. He gives you strength. Suppose you got a sword, sharpened sword. But if you have no strength, what will you do with the sword? Krsna will give you the strength, how to fight and kill the enemies. Everything is described. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu (said) guru-krsna-krpaya [Cc. Madhya 19.151], make your weapon sharpened by the instruction of the spiritual master and then Krsna will give you strength, you'll be able to conquer. This figurative explanation I think last night I did. Here is a verse, acyuta bala, acyuta bala. Is Pusta Krsna here?
Hari-sauri: (calls out) Pusta Krsna?
Prabhupada: We are soldiers of Krsna, servants of Arjuna. Simply you will have to act accordingly, then you will finish up enemies. They have no power, although their number is hundred times. Just like Kurus and the Pandavas. They have no power, yatra yogesvarah krsnah [Bg. 18.78]. Keep Krsna in your side, then everything will be successful. Tatra srir vijayo bhutih.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, we have to go now, catch our (indistinct). You'll be coming to America in about a month's time?
Prabhupada: I think so.
Hari-sauri: Two weeks.
Prabhupada: Three.
Tamala Krsna: The Ratha-yatra in New York is taking place on July 18th.
Prabhupada: So if I go earlier in New York, my place is available?
Tamala Krsna: Oh yeah, if you like to come it's ready.
Prabhupada: Mm, I want to go. I want to see how this new building is...
Tamala Krsna: Utilized.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) I went there in New York, no place to stay. It is very gladdening we have got now nice building.
Tamala Krsna: This place is the best facility we have in the movement. [break]
Prabhupada: (indistinct) Nitaiyer karuna habe braje radha-krsna pabe. (indistinct) Balaram hoile nitai, so this word bolo akutibe(?), it is supporter (indistinct) the verse (indistinct) nayam atma bala-hinena labhyah. Lord Baladeva. Give this garland to him and this flower to that boy. (dictation tape recording plays) (end)

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