760119rc.may
Room Conversation

January 19, 1976, Mayapur
Prabhupada: The stricture of nature's law, that is science. Is it not scientific effort? They will never be able to do so, but still, they are... To stop death, birth, death, old age, is very major problem, but even in small things you cannot do anything. Everywhere you are dependent. And still, they are very much proud that they are advancing in scientific knowledge so that they can overcome the stringent laws of nature and so on, so on. Durasaya. It is called durasaya, hope which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Durasaya. Sastra, Bhagavata, says, durasaya. This is their foolishness. They are expecting something which will never be fulfilled. Therefore sastra says, durasaya. Now what they are doing about the moon planet?
Harikesa: They've forgotten about it.
Sudama: Now they're trying for Mars.
Prabhupada: Just see. Hele dantavan keute.(?) A man was trying to capture snake. So there are snakes, hele. There are many snakes; they have no poison, especially the water snake, the hele. So hele dantavan keute.(?) Keute means cobra. So one cannot catch up the poisonless snake, and he is attempting to capture cobra. They could not go to the moon planet, which is only 1,600,000 miles above the sun, and they are going to Venus, which is far, far away, still. How many miles the Venus is situated? They have committed some mistake.
Harikesa: Yes. Well, they say here it's 600,000 yojanas, which makes 48,000,000 miles. No, 480,000,000 miles above the sun.
Prabhupada: If they cannot reach sun... They are trying to go above the sun. (Someone enters) Bosen. Jaya. (Bengali) [break] It is giving quotation from Vedas. How to act on Vedic principle, that is called smrti. Sometimes the original law is explained by one lawyer in detail. So that detailed explanation is like smrti, and the original law is sruti. In that we have to bathe. Smrti means which is explaining sruti to understand easily.
Tamala Krsna: But we should never think that smrti is an interpretation.
Prabhupada: No, no. It is not inter... It is explanation.
Tamala Krsna: Just like sometimes the smartas, they argue that if you quote smrti, it is not as good as sruti.
Prabhupada: Yes. But smrti... Just like the Mayavadis. They do not accept because their interpretation of Veda is different.
Tamala Krsna: Right. So they say that smrti is an interpretation.
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
Tamala Krsna: They don't accept Bhagavad-gita, many of them.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: So what is our answer to such persons?
Prabhupada: We have got our own acaryas. If you don't accept, I don't accept you. That is my... What can be done?
Harikesa: Madhvacarya made a commentary on the Gita where he quoted a Sanskrit verse.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: He quoted a Vedic verse for every Bhagavad-gita verse to prove that Bhagavad-gita is sruti.
Tamala Krsna: Madhvacarya?
Harikesa: Or somebody like that.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya.
Harikesa: Who?
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya has quoted.
Harikesa: Ramanujacarya.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya has given quotation from sruti for every verse of Bhagavad-gita. (Someone enters and offers obeisances) You read from the...
Bhavananda: It starts off in big print, "Acaryadeva Tridandi Swami Srila Bhaktivilasa Tirtha Maharaja. All learned men are aware that in the dark days of India when the Hindu religion was in great danger..."
Prabhupada: (laughs) This is nonsense.
Bhavananda: "...our Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was born at Sri Mayapura, destined to remove the dark clouds which had overshadowed true religious thinking by traveling alone on foot throughout the length and breadth of India. Preaching His gospel of love, He brought about a religious upheaval which put an end to all religious conflicts and suicidal vissiferous(?) tendencies. The benign influence of His love philosophy made the whole of India a spiritually united cultural domain. Soul-enrapturing kirtana music was organized from one end of the country to another. A neo-humanism based on love regarded as the highest objective of human existence held sway. The difference between man and man was forgotten, and the fundamental unity of human nature and human destiny was stressed upon. But in the early nineteenth century, true religion was at a very low ebb due to lack of proper publicity of literature and also for want of great acaryas to propagate the cults in their true aspect. It was a dark period for the Caitanya or Gaudiya Vaisnavism when it fell from its highest transcendentalism to the lowest possible degradation because of so many abuses and evil practices which crept into it through plenty of pseudo-followers. Vaisnavism was almost abandoned by the educated section of people. Its literature was hardly read. Kirtana was looked upon not as a form of prayer but as a means of gratification by people of loose morals. Most of the Vaisnava followers of the period lost their high standard of morality, their loving aestheticism, their intellectual superiority and devotional fervor, which were the main characteristics of the previous masters. The influx of Western ideas came in, and English educated people fell into the hands of Christians. Fortunately, at that time, we got a great Vaisnava savant and scholar, Thakura Kedaranatha Bhaktivinoda, who wrote widely and successfully created an interest among the educated public in Vaisnava religion and literature. His discovery of Sridhama Mayapura, the birthplace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, which was so long hidden from the public eye, gave a new impetus to its propagation. The age of Gaudiya Vaisnavism set in. Thereafter, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura took hold of Gaudiya Vaisnavism with a vow to propagate it in its true perspective, even as it was practiced with unparalleled and unprecedented transcendentalism by Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatana Gosvamis, followers of Sri Caitanya. In proper time, he got a great personality who readily shouldered the..."
Prabhupada: Just see now. "He got a great personality." He is that personality. He'll also prove that.
Bhavananda: "...who shouldered the burden of the mighty mission of Srila Sarasvati Thakura. That great personality is President Acaryadeva, his holiness Sri Srimad Bhaktivilasa..."
Prabhupada: But you... Jaya morena apne morol.(?) This great personality, why he is not accepted by other disciples? How he became a great personality?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. If one proclaims himself to be the king and no one...
Prabhupada: No one accepts him.
Tamala Krsna: What kind of king?
Prabhupada: That is called in Bengali, jaya mane apna morol.(?) Morol means the leader of the society, of the village. Here there are morol. So in the village nobody cares for him, and he declares that "I am morol."
Tamala Krsna: That person is insane.
Prabhupada: Nobody cares for him, and he is thinking that "great personality." Where is his greatness? Who knows him? Just see. So he is making a plan to declare himself a great personality.
Bhavananda: It goes on to explain why he is such a great personality.
Prabhupada: So why explain? If he is great personality, everyone should know. Why he is trying to explain? What is the use of explanation? If a great personality is unknown, and he has to be known by explanatory notes, then how he is great personality?
Bhavananda: Just like the President of the United States. He doesn't have to say, "I am the President." Everyone knows.
Prabhupada: Yes. Go on reading.
Bhavananda: "...Tirtha Maharaja, who was then known as guru-prestha, most dear to his guru, and also known to the disciples of Srila Sarasvati Thakura as Kunjada, giver of shelter. In all the missionary works and the management of the mathas, Srila Bhaktivilasa Tirtha Gosvami Maharaja was the right hand of his Gurudeva. By his constant, unstinted service rendered to Srila Prabhupada, whose most intimate disciple he was, he almost became a counterpart of that great saint."
Tamala Krsna: Oh. This is not... "Counterpart." Jumping... Trying to equal...
Prabhupada: So those who are not accepting him, so they are all fools.
Tamala Krsna: This is very bad, Prabhupada. It says he wanted to be... He almost became counterpart. That means he is trying to become equal or superior to guru.
Prabhupada: Superior.
Bhavananda: In this first sentence, superior, that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, his whole mission was dependent upon this great personality, Tirtha Maharaja. Not that Bhaktisiddhanta was a great personality, but that the great personality is Tirtha Maharaja.
Prabhupada: He has written like that?
Bhavananda: He said, "In proper time he got a great personality who readily shouldered the burden of the mighty mission of Sarasvati Thakura." That's implying that he is the one responsible.
Prabhupada: He says... his impression is like that. Then?
Bhavananda: "In all preaching work, everybody felt the sober but encouraging hand of Srila Bhaktivilasa Tirtha Gosvami Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada never did anything without consulting him first or without his consent. So all the desires for future work of Prabhupada Srila Sarasvati..."
Prabhupada: He does not mention his name. He says... All right, go. His sannyasi name is... All right. Then?
Bhavananda: "All the desires for future work of Srila Prabhupada Sarasvati Thakura used to come to the present acaryadeva as an impulse first, which he translated into action at once. In spite of a hundred hindrances from so-called religionists with a vision of a future worldwide mission, Srila Prabhupada established Sri Caitanya Matha at Sri Mayapura, the birthplace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, on the Phalguna Purnima day, the seventh March, 1918, which was a red-letter day in the history of theistic religious revival in this age. He started a countrywide movement to carry the message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to every door. In a hectic manner within a couple of years he preached Gaudiya Vaisnavism throughout India and sent disciples to England, Germany, and other parts of Europe and Burma to preach the message of Sri Caitanya and establish sixty-four branches under the name of Sri Gaudiya Matha throughout India and abroad, and a vast literature flowed through his versatile pen. The large number of publications in different languages and the vigorous missionary activities and door-to-door preaching by the sannyasis and brahmacaris of the Matha, who held meetings in the remotest villages, duly spread Sri Caitanya's teachings, which today are followed in every part of India. His songs are sung in chorus and a great interest is created among the intelligentsia of India. After having become the president of the institution..." In this last paragraph, all of these activities of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, there is no mention of his name. His whole mission, there is actually no mention of his name, that he is the one who has done it. "After having become the president of the institution, Srila Bhaktivilasa Tirtha Gosvami Maharaja has been traveling throughout India and Pakistan preaching the devotional cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and he has come in contact with many savants of present India who are all struck with reverent admiration for his deep knowledge of philosophy. Dr. Radhakamal Mukherjee, vice chancellor of Lucknow University, remarks, 'There is no more distinguished and erudite interpreter of Sri Caitanya's Vaisnava thought than His Holiness Srila Bhaktivilasa Tirtha Gosvami Maharaja.' "
Prabhupada: And what is Radhakamal Mukherjee?
Bhavananda: " 'He has been a prolific writer and commentator and has traveled and discoursed widely in different parts of India. His profound illuminative discourses have everywhere created a genuine interest in Vaisnava philosophy and in the dynamic religious movement he represents.' There may not be any doubt among the well-informed people that the Sri Caitanya Matha, with its branches, Sri Gaudiya Mathas, throughout India and abroad, have been propagating the greatest religion, which, from a realistic point of view, has helped to build up a true civilization. Today, due to the activities of Sri Caitanya Matha, a spiritual thirst has been created, especially among the deep-thinking and educated people of the world, for people from all over the world are coming to this institution to learn and follow the great religion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and to understand the practical Indian way of life. Today the headquarter extends over a mile, with beautiful temples, yet standing in an atmosphere of absorbing silence of meditation and worship, surrounded on all sides by emerald green paddy fields and the Ganges flowing hard by, far from the madding crowd's strife and strain. 'Mayapura is now an enchanted place, the abode of peace. The atmosphere of the place is charming. The chanting of the holy name of Hari all day and night takes one to a celestial place.' "
Tamala Krsna: We don't hear the chanting from their matha all day and night.
Bhavananda: No, it's only from here. "It is more heavenly than heaven itself. It is the sacred Vrndavana of Bengal, hallowed by the dancing steps of the Lord, and its air is purified by His noble call to prayer. Whoever pays a visit to her will leave her with regret, and those who have not yet visited the place will carry their regrets unto death."
Prabhupada: So he is making some propaganda that he is the...
Tamala Krsna: Yes, just like in the woods the jackal is always crying that he is the king, but who cares for him? What is his qualification?
Prabhupada: So do we require to...? There is no use.
Tamala Krsna: No, our answer is all of these books.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Tamala Krsna: Our answer is twenty-four-hour kirtana, prasadam distribution...
Prabhupada: And you keep it very carefully in the file.
Tamala Krsna: We should answer him by our preaching, by our vigorous preaching.
Bhavananda: Many people must be asking him, "What about this ISKCON matha?" That's why he is... It's driving him mad.
Tamala Krsna: He's speaking against us all the time. He never says anything good about us.
Prabhupada: No, he is very envious about us.
Tamala Krsna: But I think now he must have come to the conclusion that there is no way to stop us, so he is thinking how he can... I have a hunch he is thinking how he can become connected in some way to get some benefit. That's why he is sending this man, this matha commander. Because he sees now there is no way he can stop us, so he is thinking, "How can I connect somehow with them? Because they have so much money and they're going to be doing so many big things, I must establish a connection with them."
Prabhupada: So he wants to establish connection with us and...
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupada: And describe that he has... Just like Madhava Maharaja also attempted. This is the attempt. So what we have to do in this connection? Let them do whatever nonsense they want. We shall do our own business. And we have no business to propagate that we are making... People already know us all over the world. So... But suppose if he makes an attempt to mix with us so that he can take advantage, his main policy is that we may go there. That is his... Because if we do not go, then all their propaganda makes him not very important if we go there..., if we do not go there.
Tamala Krsna: Why does he depend upon our going there to become important?
Prabhupada: Because he is visualizing that by our propaganda throughout the whole world, people will come here. That he has already seen. And if we do not go there, then he becomes insignificant.
Tamala Krsna: If we don't means if anyone from all over the world who comes...
Prabhupada: Yes, naturally.
Bhavananda: People are attracted by the Westerners coming to the matha. So if we're up at that matha, any of us, and then they say, "Just see." They say in Bengali, "Just see. They are coming. To see our guru maharaja, they are coming."
Prabhupada: That was the policy of Madhava Maharaja and Sridhara Maharaja, that "Although Bhaktivedanta Swami is propagating throughout, he is subordinate to us, under our instruction." So all these three...
Tamala Krsna: A real dream world they are living in.
Bhavananda: Here they have even included our temple in their domain. "The headquarters extends for over a mile with beautiful temples and paddy fields." When we put up our wall, then they will not be able to include us. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: The point is that no matter how much they press for any kind of mixing, our first point is: "You come here and visit us." And he'll never do that. Never do that. And we should not... We already invited him twice, so we don't have to give any more invitation. We should simply say verbally, "Let Tirtha Maharaja come here as we have come so many times. Then we can speak about some kind of cooperation."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: I remember, Srila... You walked there.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: From here you walked all the way...
Tamala Krsna: Twice Prabhupada has visited and personally requested, and he won't come here. And now... The thing is now he might say, "If you give it to me in writing, I will come," but we'll say, "We have already personally come. Our spiritual master has come twice personally, and now you have to simply come. The invitation is already given. Now Tirtha Maharaja should come here." He'll never do that.
Bhavananda: He'll never come.
Tamala Krsna: Right. So then that way we don't have to cooperate.
Prabhupada: So this paper you keep, because these rascals they may create some trouble.
Tamala Krsna: What kind of trouble?
Prabhupada: Trouble like this, just like he was detained.
Tamala Krsna: What was that?
Bhavananda: When I had that...
Prabhupada: They can file some complaint inducing something.
Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, it was very interesting. Last night that complaint, my lawyer was this man who was sitting right here last night, this old man, Nandulal? He was my lawyer.
Prabhupada: Accha.
Bhavananda: And he is the one who asked me, "Who is behind this case?" He asked me when we brought him from Krishnanagar. Because he is considered the best lawyer in Nadia, so we brought him in, and as we were leaving, after the first time I appeared, he said, "There is someone... This man is a farmer, laborer. Who has put him up to this? There is someone behind this." So he asked me, "Was it Sridhara? Someone of the Gaudiya Matha is behind this." But he came last night with them, this lawyer, old man, he came with them. So they were definitely the ones behind it.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: They were definitely the ones behind that case. They somehow got their hands on that man and had him bring charges, even though the whole thing was dropped.
Prabhupada: Who was behind them?
Bhavananda: Well, this man, he mentioned Sridhara Maharaja's name. He said, "Some Gaudiya Matha person."
Prabhupada: He's a very good lawyer.
Bhavananda: Yes. He's retired, but he's the most respected lawyer in Nadia. So he mentioned.
Prabhupada: So he was in our side.
Bhavananda: Yes. So he had mentioned, "Someone from the Gaudiya Matha." He said, "You have many enemies. This man would not have thought of this kind of thing, to do this kind of thing. Someone had to..."
Prabhupada: Who?
Bhavananda: When I had to go to court to appear for having kidnapped that woman and her son, that I was holding the woman and her son by force—the husband placed charges—so this lawyer said, "That... He was a simple man, a little crazy. He wouldn't have done it or had the money to do it. Someone with some more intelligence, higher intelligence, is behind him, goading him on, telling him what to do." He asked who did I think it was? He mentioned Gaudiya Matha, and he asked for any, did I know any particular personalities. I said, "No." He said, "What about Sridhara Swami?" Someone.
Prabhupada: So if Sridhara Swami was behind... Maybe. There is no...
Bhavananda: The point is that they can make so much trouble like that.
Tamala Krsna: Small troubles.
Bhavananda: Yes, little harassment. Then I even... Of course, I don't know. I even question... Just like that Lalita Bose, that whole incident which Jayapataka told you about. Who knows? She is so influenced by... She is big, so-called Vaisnava, and known in so many circles in Bengal. Who is influencing her? You know? Anyway, we simply stay on our land and develop our program. He is going mad.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: He is becoming mad.
Prabhupada: Who?
Prabhupada: (laughs) How?
Bhavananda: Well, the more he hears. Because he gets so many reports. So many people are coming here, and no one is going there. Even...
Tamala Krsna: His mentality is becoming like Kamsa, I think. At every moment he is thinking, "This Prabhupada..."
Prabhupada: So who...? Somebody inquired him that "What is this called? So many people are coming." Huh?
Tamala Krsna: He knows no one is coming there. Not very many more people are coming there than are here. Because most of the people come here...
Prabhupada: That they are realizing, that "We are becoming insignificant gradually." That they are realizing.
Tamala Krsna: No one goes to Madhava Maharaja's matha at all. The only matha that they still visit is that Sri Caitanya Matha. And they have no money, so that place is becoming so dilapidated that no one is going there either. And there's no life there. There's no young people. There are no...
Prabhupada: No, how they can? They cannot feed them.
Tamala Krsna: We were speaking this morning, Bhavananda Maharaja and myself that, we were wondering if we could make like... You know, so many people come here to eat prasadam. On the weekends, at least two to three thousand people come. So we were wondering whether it would be proper to make some kind of propaganda that "If anyone wants to enroll their children here, their young boys in our gurukula, that they can..."
Prabhupada: So a similar counterpart leaflet you should, that "International Society for Krishna Consciousness, world organization, established by His Divine Grace, and anyone can come here and take foodstuff. We have got arrangement," like this. In suitable words you write and issue another pamphlet.
Tamala Krsna: Bengali.
Prabhupada: In Bengali and in English. Which may not touch there, but we write in our own way that "By the order of his guru he went to America. Then he..." That's a fact. What is the fact, that should be written. Give the list of the books and so on, so on.
Tamala Krsna: List of the temples.
Prabhupada: Yes, temples. And "He is the acarya of the present Gaudiya-sampradaya."
Bhavananda: If we simply state the facts, there is no need for us to subtly infer or to exaggerate because your activities are so glorious that...
Prabhupada: And invite anyone who is interested to become devotee. We shall provide place, food, education to the children. In this way make another statement.
Tamala Krsna: I'm just wondering... I was thinking whether we...
Prabhupada: Without touching them.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. This is... Of course, we'll do this also. What about, like, all of these people coming? This is my point, that so many poor people are coming here. Practically they don't even have enough money to take care of their children properly. So whether we can make some verbal announcements and whether we can set up a little table at the prasadam pavilion that "Anyone who would like to enroll their sons in our school can do so"? Because many of these people can't take care of their children properly. I'm thinking when they see our boys they may want to give their sons.
Prabhupada: Yes, they will give.
Tamala Krsna: Is that a good program?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: We can get many... I think we could get many, many men that way.
Prabhupada: The children, they are enjoying. In the morning they are... That is wanted.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, they're in ecstasy.
Bhavananda: All day they enjoy. When they are sweeping the road, they don't know that there's difference between work and play.
Prabhupada: No, no.
Bhavananda: To them, sweeping the road is their play. They love it.
Tamala Krsna: These children are much more hard working than the children in America. Like these few American boys that are here, they cannot compare with these Bengali boys.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Their service attitude is much, much better. I think we should...
Prabhupada: By association they will be also.
Bhavananda: Yes, they have also improved.
Tamala Krsna: Jagaman has.
Bhavananda: Jagaman is wonderful.
Tamala Krsna: He works very hard. So I think we should try to get as many of these young boys as we can. We should use the facility of this prasadam distribution.
Prabhupada: The thing is that whether we should... This pamphlet, I don't think it has got any value.
Tamala Krsna: It has no value, Prabhupada. What we should do is build this temple. If we just build this temple... This is my point. Let us build this temple immediately. Once this temple is built, everything is finished. All the glowworms are completely extinguished. There will be nothing left. They can do anything they want, and nothing will matter. If they have a 350-foot building with escalators, with huge compounds, then everything is ended.
Prabhupada: So do like that, like America.
Bhavananda: He can come here and stand outside and scream, "I am the acaryadeva." Just like in America so many people are saying, "I am Napoleon." No one...
Prabhupada: That everyone says. That is not...
Bhavananda: We have to build this temple because...
Prabhupada: So make something like American which is wonderful for the world. So you are Americans. You must do something.
Tamala Krsna: If we build this temple with escalators and the people go in the temple and they go up the escalator...
Harikesa: They'll never come back.
Tamala Krsna: Do you think that they're going to then go down the road to go into Sri Caitanya Matha? Why would... What is the point of it after doing something like that? They'll never go.
Prabhupada: And if you can arrange some... What is called, that? This helicopter.
Tamala Krsna: Helicopter.
Prabhupada: Bringing our men from Dum Dum airport to our roof.
Prabhupada: There are at least four roofs like this.
Tamala Krsna: Right. The people will see. All the pilgrims will see. Like the demigods flying in.
Prabhupada: At least we can make a show—it is coming twice in a day and going twice in a day. And they will see that "Oh, so many people are coming."
Tamala Krsna: So you have to... The thing is we're simply waiting for your go-ahead, because unless we get the land and we can begin, we can't start this.
Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna has sent him. Let him come.
Tamala Krsna: We shouldn't delay. If we... This is a little pamphlet. If we issue a counter-pamphlet, it's not... I don't think it's such an important thing. The thing to do is to do something...
Prabhupada: Yes, practical.
Tamala Krsna: ...so significant that this becomes useless. Not that we issue another thing of this nature.
Harikesa: This is already useless.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I mean, what is the use of issuing another piece of paper against this paper? Let us make a skyscraper temple; then they can think what will be the comparison between this...
Bhavananda: On every level. Even the people this invitation was issued to. But they come, and when they come on Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's appearance day, they all come down the road to here to visit.
Tamala Krsna: Really.
Bhavananda: Even he gives off so much energy inviting this one and that one, they all come. They all want to come down the road. They at least come down for darsana.
Tamala Krsna: They do?
Bhavananda: Yes, they have to. They've all been here. They all know it. They come with different personalities, different friends... In Krishnanagar, we are like the cinema in terms of entertainment. As soon as any man, any official, government official, his friends come from Calcutta, immediately they get in one of the government jeeps and they drive out here and come to see the ISKCON Matha, Mayapura Chandrodaya Mandir. Immediately. So many men, they come all the time with their friends from Calcutta. Same thing in Navadvipa. They come for an evening's...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: Fully satisfied. The woman puts on her sari, the man dresses up in his kurta...
Prabhupada: So our arrangement should be to give them some prasadam, very nice treatment.
Tamala Krsna: We've got to do this. We've got to do this.
Prabhupada: And if important man should write something in the visitor's... Reception.
Tamala Krsna: There should be a reception, proper receptionist.
Prabhupada: So where the reception?
Tamala Krsna: Will sit?
Bhavananda: We'll make some arrangement.
Prabhupada: Make it immediately. Reception.
Tamala Krsna: That Nitaicanda is really first class.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: Nitaicanda is very good.
Prabhupada: Nitaicanda plus somebody very educated should be there.
Tamala Krsna: Who do we have like that that speaks Bengali?
Bhavananda: Subhaga. Oh, they love Subhaga. He preaches in the temple at the book table during the busy hours. So many people buy books, and all interested. He's very...
Prabhupada: Subhaga. Subhaga make the chief of the reception. And Nitaicanda his assistant, and another, a foreigner.
Tamala Krsna: Nitaicanda is in charge of the building.
Bhavananda: He has so much to do, anyway, Nitaicanda. Subhaga is best.
Prabhupada: Subhaga and two foreigners.
Tamala Krsna: As assistants. Hm.
Prabhupada: Make that arrangement. He is very good boy.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, he is really good.
Prabhupada: And he has understood the philosophy. He has got ten years experience of London.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I met him in the London airport and I told him, "Why don't you come to India?" 'Cause I saw him, I thought he'd be really helpful here. So, Prabhupada, another thing, is there any need to increase our prasadam distribution? Right now about a thousand people come.
Prabhupada: No, what... They are coming, but if you see that more are coming, then increase. There is no question of advertising.
Tamala Krsna: There isn't. We shouldn't advertise.
Prabhupada: Rather, you make some arrangement that there'll be prasadam-selling there, and anyone comes within the temple give him something. Just like I give here.
Tamala Krsna: Well, we don't do that at all.
Bhavananda: Everyone who comes in the temple, they get that misti bada..
Tamala Krsna: Everyone?
Bhavananda: Everyone.
Prabhupada: Misti bada?
Bhavananda: Misti bada we give, gur and peanut with little coconut in it and masala. We're famous now in the whole area, even Jayapataka was seeing one government official in Krishnanagar, and he said, "Did you bring me any of that bada?" They all want.
Prabhupada: Something must be given.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, if we get a good cook like Shantilal and he can cook hundreds of kachori and we can sell, and then the next room have one men who serves them prasadam, everyone will come to take prasadam.
Prabhupada: Keep nice water, sitting place. They will take.
Tamala Krsna: What kind of sitting place? On the floor with mats, or benches and tables?
Prabhupada: Benches, table will be nice.
Tamala Krsna: Better. Like in a South Indian house. The South Indian restaurants, they have those... Of course, those are fancy, like in Vrndavana. In the South Indian restaurant they always have a table with marble top. Then they put a leaf on it. Very nice.
Harikesa: There is room down there. That big room can be used as like a restaurant.
Tamala Krsna: Where?
Harikesa: The next floor down on the end, where they sometimes have class.
Tamala Krsna: No, Prabhupada wants it up there where they sell the prasadam.
Bhavananda: They will buy in some leaf cup and go next door and have a place to sit down and take it, and then water to wash their... Actually there's a pump. Everything is right there.
Prabhupada: You will find such confectioner's shop, sitting place and eating.
Prabhupada: Like that.
Bhavananda: Just like in Navadvipa.
Harikesa: They have that near the Gopinatha temple in Vrndavana. Everybody goes there. That is very big.
Tamala Krsna: We should make a nice sweet, sweetmeats also.
Harikesa: Lugloos is big there. Those lugloos.
Tamala Krsna: We should make many types of sweetmeats. There should be so many preparations, all offered to the Deity. People can purchase maha-prasadam. It will be very big. When you read in the Caitanya-caritamrta, every time Caitanya Mahaprabhu's devotees are purchasing prasadam from Jagannatha temple, all the time.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the system.
Tamala Krsna: It sounds like they make a huge quantity at Puri, huge quantities of foodstuffs.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Any time you can get one thousand man's eatables.
Tamala Krsna: Any time? But we only offer one little plate at arati.
Prabhupada: No, that you can increase as the demand is increased.
Tamala Krsna: There is such a demand in Puri?
Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone goes. They do not cook. He purchases prasadam and eat. Everyone.
Tamala Krsna: It's so famous. Yes, whenever someone visits there they always bring back prasadam from Jagannatha.
Prabhupada: It is... Fifty-six time, prasadam is offered there, fifty-six time.
Harikesa: It's constant.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: It's constantly being offered all day long.
Prabhupada: Yes. Once offered, arati is performed. Then it is taken away, washed, the room. Again half and hour after... Why half an hour? Fifteen minutes after. Throughout the whole day and night, fifty-six times.
Tamala Krsna: Night also.
Prabhupada: Night..., not night. But up to late night. So fifty-six time, chappanna, within twenty-four hours, so just imagine.
Harikesa: Four or five times an hour.
Tamala Krsna: So we have to do that at this temple.
Prabhupada: Every fifteen minutes new set, prasadam.
Tamala Krsna: You need a whole lot of Shantilals to do that.
Prabhupada: And these ingredients are supplied by Jagannatha's own field. They grow it, and they... So there is no difficulty. They grow and they sell. They get money so they can maintain the establishment. A long time. There are potters. Daily they will supply for each prasadam a new pot. It cannot be used again. So few people purchase with pot, original pot, and they have got a fixed price. This big pot, say, five rupees; this pot, two rupees; this pot, one rupee. So as you like, you can purchase. Very nice system.
Tamala Krsna: You went there sometimes to take prasadam?
Prabhupada: Yes, I became a guest. A gentleman was our tenant, and he gave me introduction letter to his brother-in-law. He was a pleader in Jagannatha Puri. So he received me very well. So he offered me a lunch, and I saw there was something, a small ball-like, in the pot, bowl. So I asked, "What is this?" He said, "It is meat." (laughs) He was eating meat, so he thought it is good reception, the guest is offered nice meat. So I said, "No, you... I never took meat. I never expected..." [break] Then "Never mind." Then I stopped eating there. At that time I was a boy. After appearing in my B.A. examination there was holiday, so I went to Jagannatha Puri in 1920 or something like that. So I was married in 1918. So some of the friends of my wife, they said that "Your husband now gone. He is not coming back." So after returning I understood she was crying. (laughs) So anyway, then I used to purchase prasadam in the market. They were bringing, and I was eating. I stayed for three, four days. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: You said that when you were very young you always used to calculate what was the cost of a ticket to Puri.
Prabhupada: Yes. Every day I was seeing how to go to Jagannatha Puri and how to go to Vrndavana. At that time a fare was, for Vrndavana, four or five rupees, and similarly for Jagannatha Puri. So I was thinking, "When I shall go?" That's all. I took first opportunity to go to Jagannatha Puri after my examination, and in business connection when I went to Agra, then I first of all took the opportunity to go to Vrndavana from Agra. This was in 1925, and I visited Jagannatha Puri sometime in 1920. And '25 I went to Vrndavana. I remember, in those days I was sitting within the car, and there was some prasadam. One monkey entered and took away everything.
Tamala Krsna: In the train compartment.
Prabhupada: They are very clever. Many times in Vrndavana the monkeys have taken away from my hand foodstuff.
Tamala Krsna: While you were eating.
Prabhupada: Hm. Thrice... At least thrice, four times I remember.
Tamala Krsna: You wanted them to take it? You were offering...
Prabhupada: No, suppose a big monkey comes and takes. You are stunned. (laughter) You have to give him. No other way.
Tamala Krsna: They will attack otherwise.
Prabhupada: In Radha-Damodara temple I was cooking the other room. So although the door was closed, he knew, he opened the door and took away my prasadam. Sometimes they would take away... (door opens) Come on. The, what is called, dough? For...?
Tamala Krsna: Capatis?
Prabhupada: Capati. So they will eat that.
Tamala Krsna: Raw dough.
Prabhupada: You gave him some book, this Surendra?
Jayapataka: That was a long time ago I gave one book. Since then you wrote that don't give any books, but that was a long time ago I gave.
Prabhupada: That's all right. So you have talked and dealt with him?
Jayapataka: He came to me and said he wanted a job here. He said he wanted to be our manager, this and that. And then he was hinting about that they were getting one wage, allowance, so he was expecting to get some allowance also, a little more.
Prabhupada: So he is coming now. What is the purpose?
Jayapataka: He wanted to be our..., to work for us. To work for Your Divine Grace, maybe.
Prabhupada: How did you find him by dealing with him?
Jayapataka: I didn't find him. He found me.
Prabhupada: No, no, how you have...? How do you...?
Jayapataka: Oh, how did I find... How did...? Well, I know that influentially he is, in the district level, he is very influential. I mean to say that he has got very good relations with all the government people and all the local people. Whenever I go somewhere to invite them for any festival, any function, they would always speak highly of Surendra dasa and that he had just about a week ago before, he had already invited them for the Caitanya Matha. So he is very active in that way, something which we don't have time or understanding to do, so many of us. He knows how to receive people and make them feel very nice and show them around. He has a nice personality like that, and he is very active.
Prabhupada: So if you engage, him do you think we shall get some good service?
Jayapataka: I don't know the... I know that he is able to perform good service. As far as whether he'll... Other people tell me that since he's been working for the Caitanya Matha... (end)

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