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760219mw.may
Morning Walk
February 19, 1976, Mayapura Prabhupada: ...this flavor. Now who can challenge? Apart from other things...
Acyutananda: But you don't know the real cause scientifically, so you say it is a god.
Prabhupada: No, no, you, you are scientist, but you are a greater rascal. You cannot explain. Wherefrom this flavor has come?
Acyutananda: Well, we're working on that, and we'll find out.
Prabhupada: But working... But we have got the already conclusion. Why should we work like a fool?
Acyutananda: That's an excuse because you cannot explain to your children when they come.
Prabhupada: No, no, we are explaining. Krsna says, "This is I am." This is God. This is God. You are fool. You are searching after. But we know. Here is God. Punyo gandhah prthivyam ca. Krsna says, "I am this flavor." So as soon as you have this flavor, you understand Krsna is there. It is easier. This is Krsna consciousness. Prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh.
Acyutananda: There was an arti...
Prabhupada: Just like the sunshine is there. Here is Krsna. So we have no difficulty. Prabhasmi sasi-suryayoh. Here is punyo gandhah prthivyam ca.
Acyutananda: There was now a statement from the scientists, "Scientists are no longer positive why the sun shines." Like... They were positive, and they said, "We are positive." Now they are no longer positive why the sun shines.
Prabhupada: What is that, "positive"?
Acyutananda: They don't know... Before they were sure. Now they're not sure why the sun shines. They had concocted an idea, and they declared it as a law, a scientific law. Now they have..., again doubting their own law.
Guru-krpa: Actually the flavor that's in the flower comes from the different secretion, and by different mixture, different flavors come out.
Prabhupada: Rascal, what is that mixture?
Prabhupada: By chance. (laughter)
Acyutananda: They have scientists have analyzed. All smells come in seven or eight basic smells: burnt, sweet, bitter... So they said, "A rose is seven sweet, two burnt and one bitter." So they take the chemicals, and it doesn't smell like a rose. They put the seven sweet and the one burnt, and... And it doesn't smell rose. But just the statement that they are no longer chemicals...
Sudama: Just like now they have created flowers, plastic flowers that give scent.
Acyutananda: But they have taken material from the already created, and here's without factory it's made.
Prabhupada: If you ask for an artist to...
Acyutananda: But there's no seed in the plastic flower, no seeds to create more.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Acyutananda: The scient... There was a scientific law called Heisenberg's Law of Uncertainty that'cause this Heisenberg just died, so they wrote his philosophythat you cannot observe anything and give a conclusive answer to anything that was uncertain. No one can make a decisive statement...
Prabhupada: So why you are giving this conclusive answer? Why he is giving?
Acyutananda: No.
Prabhupada: This is conclu...
Acyutananda: All he's saying is like what Socrates..., "I only know that I don't know."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: So "I don't know" means that you are rascal. So you know. So why you are preaching? You know that you are a rascal. Then why you are preaching? You are teaching.
Acyutananda: They, they showed his picture in the...
Prabhupada: That's all right. He said, "I know. I know that I don't know." So if you don't know, that means you are a rascal. So, knowingly that you are a rascal, why you are taking the position of a teacher? That is cheating. You are rascal, cheater. That's all.
Acyutananda: And his picture is, was with a beer.
Hrdayananda: He wanted to teach everyone...
Acyutananda: Einstein was also a drunkard.
Hrdayananda: He would say, "I have taken this position, teacher, because I want everyone to say, 'I don't know.' "
Acyutananda: So just say, "I don't know."
Prabhupada: It is very difficult to deal with these rascals. The other day one professor came to see me from Khabudvipa(?). He was very submissive, but still, he would argue like this, that "Whatever Krsna is making me to do, I am doing." So I told him, "Krsna is asking you to surrender. Why don't you surrender?" "No, when He will will, I shall surrender."
Acyutananda: "He should make me..."
Prabhupada: Yes. Just see.
Acyutananda: There's a story I tell.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Acyutananda: So there was a man. "Oh, when he wills me to surrender, I'll surrender, and..."
Prabhupada: But He is directly saying, "You surrender." Still, He has to will? Just see the argument.
Hrdayananda: Cheating.
Acyutananda: No, there was a story like that, that a cow ate a man's grasses. So the man beat the cow and the cow died. So Yamaraja came. And he was saying, "Oh, Krsna willed me, and I killed the cow. It is all Krsna's karya. I did not kill him." So Yamaraja said, "Well, who, who planted this rice?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased this land?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased, who raised that land?" "I did." "Who did that?" "I did. I did. I did." "Now, who killed the cow?" (Prabhupada laughs) So they want to take credit...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: ...when they do something for their sense gratification, but to sacrifice"Oh, Krsna has to tell me. Krsna wills it." Then they don't... They say, "Why did Krsna create evil?" Then there is a very peculiar question that comes sometimes: "If Krsna knows that we were going to fall down, why didn't He save us?" or something like that.
Prabhupada: He's saving you.
Sudama: In the West, that is a very popular question.
Prabhupada: He's saving.
Sudama: Why didn't...
Prabhupada: He's asking that "You... I'll save you. You surrender to Me."
Acyutananda: But that means He knows everything in advance.
Prabhupada: He knows. He knows that you are a rascal, you'll fall. Therefore He says that "Do this. You'll not fall."
Acyutananda: And they don't seem to take that answer, and they're very...
Sudama: No, they become very embittered: "Why He permits us...? If He is all-loving God, why He permits us to suffer?
Prabhupada: No, He's not permit... He forbids, but you...
Acyutananda: You insist.
Prabhupada: ...that you have to understand, that you have got little independence. That... Actually they do not understand that.
Sudama: No. They're not satisfied.
Acyutananda: They don't...
Sudama: Then they say, "Why He give us independence, then?"
Prabhupada: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.
Guru-krpa: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Krsna in such conditions? This is a very...
Acyutananda: The original sin.
Sudama: Why we are envious,
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate.
Sudama: It is very hard thing to understand.
Prabhupada: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult.
Acyutananda: It is not difficult. They don't want to understand.
Prabhupada: Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel.
Acyutananda: No, their idea is that they want to blame God for their predicament, like a bad child, you know, says, "Well you made me do it."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Sudama: "What can I do?"
Prabhupada: No, they say, "Why you gave me birth?" They say like that.
Sudama: Cursing almost. Almost.
Guru-krpa: Also the atheistic people sometimes argue, "What does your Krsna do for the suffering people?"
Prabhupada: Hm?
Guru-krpa: "What does He do? Why doesn't He come down and help the poor people? They are suffering."
Acyutananda: I tell them there's...
Acyutananda: In Andhra, I said, "There's so much land where they're growing tobacco. You could grow food." But in the Gita, it says, "Once coming there, he never returns."
Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return.
Acyutananda: He can return.
Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown.
Acyutananda: In Krsna book it says that there were some color fighting in Dvaraka. They were throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is... Will that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuntha and think of personal lust with Krsna's associates?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Whatever He likes, He'll do. That is God. God is not meant for satisfying you.
Acyutananda: That man was dragged down by the people in the audience anyway.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Acyutananda: He was dragged down by the people in the audience. He was an agitator. [break]
Prabhupada: This preaching work is a great fight, struggle.
Acyutananda: It is very struggle.
Prabhupada: So you are all soldiers. Even if you lay down your life by fighting, you are recognized by Krsna. Krsna will see that "This devotee has laid down his life," so He'll... He's... Asamsayam. Asamsayam. Mam evaisyasy asamsayam. So let us go on fighting. Even we die, what is that? We are going back to... Jivo va maro va. A Vaisnava, a sadhu, either he lives or dies, he is under the protection of Krsna. Jivo va maro va. [break] So if he dies in the battlefield, he goes to heaven.
Acyutananda: [break] Now, in the past year, though, Communism has come under many attacks in the magazines and newspapers.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Acyutananda: Communism has been openly attacked as failure.
Prabhupada: Communism?
Acyutananda: Yes, many places.
Prabhupada: It is a failure.
Acyutananda: I... I think, only in the world, that is the real country where people are really starving, in Russia.
Prabhupada: Russia, yes.
Acyutananda: Now they're having drought, and trying to get wheat from a freezing cold land. And they have their favorite class, also. The Party members are only a fraction of the population, and they get all the benefits.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: So they have their caste system also. It was created out of envy...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: ...for the... That's all.
Prabhupada: I think I have discussed this.
Acyutananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Marx's failure.
Acyutananda: ...they cannot take the greed out of man. That was right on the head. That is the exact point, that they are suffering for the greed of the vaisyas. So they kick out the vaisyas, but then they are also more greedy.
Prabhupada: They are greedy.
Acyutananda: Plus they are low class.
Acyutananda: The, the Russian atheist Communism was because the Christian Church used to favor the vaisyas, so they buried them together. In their hatred for the vaisyas, the Church also was buried. Very blind, that.
Hari-sauri: Yes, that's always been one of the main criticisms against the Catholic Church. They have so much money and land.
Acyutananda: He said, "Religion is the opiate of the people." So there was a cartoon that Marx came back in 1976, and they said, "No, opium is the religion of the people."
Prabhupada: Hm?
Acyutananda: "Now opium is the religion of the people because everyone is taking drugs. You say religion is the opiate. Now opium is the religion." They think there should be no private property. There was... They are discussing this in Indian Parliament now. They should abolish private property and abol... Women should not wear ornaments.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Acyutananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Where it is?
Acyutananda: They're discussing in Parliament.
Prabhupada: In our?
Acyutananda: In India, Congress. Ornaments should be banned and private property banned.
Acyutananda: They're doing it by taxing...
Acyutananda: They have a law. If you have the high, dry land, you can have fifty acres per person. And if you have wet land, rice growing, irrigated, you can only have twenty-five acres. So I said, "Suppose you have dry land, and then you irrigate..."
Prabhupada: The difficulty is that they have no standard idea, their. So they can do anything. And because they are in power, they can pass law whimsically, whatever he likes. [break] ...that babu candra mantri. (?) You know this?
Acyutananda: "Many kings and many..."
Acyutananda: Foolish king.
Prabhupada: And babu candra mantri. Another foolish mantri. One, one foolish, king; another foolish is ministers. So that is going on. All the rascals, they are getting vote. One is becoming president, another is becoming the prime minister. But both of them are rascals.
Acyutananda: The, the law they are passing now is that the president and prime minister under no case can be brought in court.
Prabhupada: That is all right. That is good.
Acyutananda: They can do anything.
Yasodanandana: I think that some of the comments of Your Divine Grace, some of the purports of the Fourth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, if they come to the notice of the Indian government, it may give us some... They may seriously consider about banning, because in that one purport you openly criticize how unfortunate the citizens are because they have a woman as the prime minister, and in another purport you openly say that the citizens should keep their, some of their treasury secret, which is against the principle of their income tax.
Prabhupada: So, I have... There is no support in the sastra?
Prabhupada: Then they confront Bhagavata. Bhagavatam...
Acyutananda: ...neighborhood, Canakya...
Prabhupada: Yes. So Canakya is authority. So I am quoting Canakya. What is my fault?
Acyutananda: No, they cannot... They cannot...
Prabhupada: Canakya is authority. Otherwise, why you have named "Canakya Puri"? He's as good as Gandhi and other big, big men. So it is said, visvaso naiva kartavyam strisu raja-kulesu ca.(?)I am innocent. I am quoting authority.
Acyutananda: Yes. Yes, you can say that is the statement of Canakya. One foolish man... I was saying, "Some...," in my lectures, "some foolish scholar has written that because Krsna is black, He is a scheduled caste." So there was a scheduled caste man in the audience who became educated. So he took offense. "Well, maybe Krsna was the leader of the scheduled caste." So I said then, "that is the statement of some scholar. You cannot criticize me. I am quoting a scholar." The audience shouted him down too. [break] Sudras and yavanas may become brahmanas, but many of them don't.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: But artificially the government process is to give benefits and prestige to the harijanas without being qual...
Prabhupada: Without training.
Acyutananda: Training.
Prabhupada: Without making him harijana...
Prabhupada: Harijana means methara. As soon as he comes, if he says, "I am harijana" then immediately you understand that he is a sweeper.
Acyutananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is the position.
Acyutananda: And now, in many cases, they forcibly occupy some land, and they create disturbance, and the local people set fire and drive them out. We call a barber...
Acyutananda: We call a barber, and he shaves one, and we said, "Now sharpen again," and he does not bring his stone. "Go back and bring your stone." But even in the free society, American society, they have union. And that is caste. To protect the employment, one union man cannot do the work of another union or he'll put another man out of work. So they stay in their place. So that is sva-dharma and para-dharma. So the same principle is natural, svabhavika, again appears naturally. Hmm? Just like we... In my house we purchased a piano. One union is hired to bring the piano from the shop to the lorry, another set of workers will lift the piano and put it into the lorry, and another union will take the, from the lorry into your house. So you have to hire about nine different men, because they'll say, "No, now our work is finished up to this point."
Prabhupada: In America?
Acyutananda: Yes. And the other union is the truck driver. And no man will do the other work. Like in India, if you hire a woman to wash the pots, if you tell her to wash the payakhana, she will not go. Another woman you have to get. And that protects them. That protects their employment opportunity.
Prabhupada: Division of labor.
Acyutananda: Division of labor.
Prabhupada: [break]... gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...
Acyutananda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest: "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."
Prabhupada: Yes. That is communal thought.
Acyutananda: "Times are changing. You have to move. You have to change with the time."
Dayananda: Mao says, "Revolution, constant revolution."
Acyutananda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show, that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."
Prabhupada: No, that is already found...
Prabhupada: ...in the Bhagavad-gita: manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakrti-sthani karsati. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati: "Although they are my part and parcel," mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7], still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manah, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer."
Acyutananda: [break] ...a bullock can pull it out. Bullocks can pull it out. And fifty years ago, they would have the bullocks...
Prabhupada: [break] ...if does not become Krsna conscious, he remains a fool and go on, all things foolish. I will suggest something; you'll suggest something; he'll suggest something. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna manorathenasati dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12]. This is not...
Acyutananda: Travel by the speed of mind.
Prabhupada: Mental concoction... They'll never be able to come the right conclusion. Simply they'll create disturbances. That's all. Utpatyaiva kalpate.(?)Just see. He is working so hard, getting money. Still he cannot provide a nice daya.
Acyutananda: He'll gamble his money.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Acyutananda: They will gamble.
Prabhupada: For gambling, they have got money, eh? (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1976/feb/morning_walk/mayapura/february/19/1976 Previous: Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura Next: Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura
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