Prabhupada: As soon as you make "Hindu religion," "Muslim religion," "Christian religion," immediately it is not religion, immediately. Because Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Why does He say, sarva-dharman parityajya? (Aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. Because that is not religion. The so-called religions which are going on, they are not religion. That we do not say at the present moment because you are not so strong. But we have to say that. There is no religion. All cheating. Why Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]? Why?

Aksayananda: Because there is no other religion.

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no religion.

Aksayananda: That is actual religion, surrendering to Krsna. Everything else is cheating.

Prabhupada: Yes. Cheating others, cheating himself. Just like this animal sacrifice. The man who is sacrificing, he is cheating himself, and he is cheating others also. [break] ...cheating, envious. Just like a man who is killing another man. So he is envious to himself as well as the man whom he is killing. Both. I am killing somebody, he is being killed. I am envious. And I forget that I'll be killed. Then I am envious to me also.

Brahmananda: Yeah. Even one's own self-interest he is not taking care of.

Prabhupada: This is the position. Even it is forbidden... In the Christian religion it is forbidden: "Thou shall not kill." And they are killing. That means envious of the animal, and he is envious of himself also. They are now being killed in the womb of the mother. Why the child is now being killed within the womb of the mother? Hm?

Aksayananda: Because they are envious. They are envious.

Prabhupada: So Upendra has not come?

Brahmananda: No.

Prabhupada: Why?

Brahmananda: He said he had to take a laxative last night.

Prabhupada: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? [break] ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Krsna consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is maya's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is maya's trick. [break]

Trivikrama: ...sixteen rounds.

Prabhupada: Yes. So let him go to hell. What can be done? [break] So his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is drinking." "Oh, he will go to hell." "My mother is also drinking." "Oh, she will go." Then brother, sister... "Then where is hell? We are going all there. If we can live together, where is hell? Let us go to hell. Doesn't matter." So your argument is that. "Because everyone is being cheated, then where is fault? I have been cheated. That's all. It is not hell. It is heaven." (laughter) Hare Krsna.

Aksayananda: It's like saying everything is one.

Prabhupada: No. That cannot be. You are one cheated and he is one cheater. How they can be one? (laughter)

Dhananjaya: [break] ...isn't self-sufficiency...

Prabhupada: Self-suff... There is no self-sufficiency. Self-insufficiency. Always remember that. Unless you become perfect in Krsna consciousness, there is no self-sufficiency. All self-insufficiency. Hare Krsna. [break] So you give me a description, what he is doing. [break] ...thinking, "I am independent," but he is kicked by his mind every moment. This is his independence"Go there. Come here. Do this. Do that." The mind is dictating, and he is thinking, "I am independent." This is the position of conditioned soul. Therefore he is called conditioned. He is conditioned by the mind, and he is thinking "independent." Mudha. Therefore mudha. Tri-gunamayair bhavaih mohitah. He is illusioned by the three modes of material nature, and he does not know Krsna, and he is thinking "independent."

Trivikrama: The mind is cheating us.

Prabhupada: Certainly he'll cheat. If you cannot control, it will cheat. Mind is the friend, and mind is the enemy. If you become Krsna conscious fully, then mind is friend. And if you do not become Krsna conscious, mind is enemy. maya is also. If you become Krsna conscious, then she is Radharani. And if he is not Krsna conscious, she is Durga.

Dhananjaya: So all these cheaters are maya's agents.

Prabhupada: No, no, they are agent of Krsna. (to passerby:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Krsna, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama maya: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivi hy esa gunamayi [Bg. 7.14].

Brahmananda: The moment we stop cheating Krsna, then we can...

Prabhupada: Then, immediately, he becomes friend. This is the way, going on. The whole arrangement is like that. So long we shall not surrender to Krsna, we have to suffer so many ways, different species of life, different condition, different planets. This is going on. [break] ...indirectly forcing that "You be Krsna conscious. Otherwise you'll be punished." Why police is so unkind? Because the indirect way is that "You become lawful; otherwise you'll continue to be suffering by us." So intelligent person thinks of it, and he becomes Krsna conscious. And those who are rascals, fools, bewildered, they think, "We shall adjust it by manufacturing every year new type of motorcars." Although there is accident... The increase of motorcar means increasing the death rate of public. Huh? And still they'll do that. It is becoming problem in cities in Europe and America. All roads and streets are always congested. They cannot drive even at ten miles speed. Still, they are increasing. Still, they are increasing motorcar.

Brahmananda: They are passing laws now that you're not allowed to drive your car in the center of the cities.

Prabhupada: Just see. They are keeping two miles away the car and coming to the office.

Brahmananda: They make them come by trains and buses. Even though they have a car, they cannot use.

Gunarnava: And they pack all the cars on top of the roofs of the buildings, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Gunarnava: They're using all the roofs of the buildings as car parks to park the cars.

Trivikrama: And they are very much proud of making so many cars. Just like we were in Detroit. Remember, you were there. They had a big sign, "Seven million cars produced this year."

Brahmananda: Yeah. They have a board with numbers, and each time a car is produced, it is put on the board. And it's a big board displayed in the city. (end)