Prabhupada: He doesn't want any improvement. He wants to keep it as a... Just like professional church, temple.

Devotee (1): They're more attached to the external form that they already have.

Prabhupada: No, no, that is which we call churchianity. Christianity, churchianity.

Devotee (1): Churchianity. (laughs)

Devotee (2): Also he may lose his position because he has no knowledge (indistinct).

Prabhupada;: That is going on everywhere. These, our Indian people, they're not interested in God. They're interested in (Hindi), some blessing, because they can make improvement in their material position.

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: So therefore these rascals come, they give them (Hindi or sounds like "ashes bath", maybe referring to Sai Baba), I give them, "I am so powerful, I give you (Hindi)," and they give them money, "Oh, here is a sadhu." They'll get (Hindi) very cheaply, and make money. Instead of two lakhs, I'll make ten lakhs, by the (Hindi). And he's Sai Baba, like rogues, they come to show them some magic, that "I have got some power, I can do anything I like, and if you become my devotee, you will improve." All these yogis, everything, they do like that. Mahesh Yogi also: "Take my mantra. Within six months you become perfect man and whatever you like, you can do."

Devotee (3): Ha ha. No restrictions.

Prabhupada: No. There is business only. Why there should be restrictions? Everyone does so, beginning from Vivekananda, Aurobindo, everyone. Aurobindo also used to say that you haven't got to do anything, you simply think of me, just like Krsna says: "Simply think of Me." (indistinct) [break]

Devotee (3): One man came here, a hatha-yogi, so-called hatha-yogi, and he was putting water in his nose and cloth in his stomach and all twisting this way, going under water, and they were all very amazed and many people came to see. Just like the circus.

Prabhupada: Yes. And then they say "I will make you perfect man, whatever you like you can... You become my disciple, give me some money."

Devotee (3): And enjoy.

Prabhupada: There is a proverb, that a drowning man catches even a straw. A man is drowning, he's seeing the straw is floating, he wants to catch it. So in western countries, they are so much fed up with this materialistic way of life that any person from India comes, they think he may give something spiritual.

Devotee (3): Hm.

Prabhupada: Light. Catch it. But what... Why did you not have tilaka, both of you. You have no time for tilaka?

Devotee (3): Our tilaka was locked in the bathroom. The door got locked.

Prabhupada: Tilaka, why it is locked in bathroom?

Devotee (3): Somehow the door became locked from inside this morning, I don't know how but we couldn't go inside.

Prabhupada: You don't get him my tilaka? All right. What is this?

Devotee (3): This is called Jakarta Fair, International Fair for business trade. Once a year they come from all over the world and...

Prabhupada: This side is better than the other side. (pause)

Devotee (2): They are sleeping on the street. [break]

Devotee (3): ...things like this. They want to be glorious, to get what they call national spirit, nationalism, everybody is eager to improve the country.

Prabhupada: So why do they not back this Krsna consciousness. That is a first-class nation.

Devotee (3): Yes, but they don't know.

Prabhupada: (indistinct) them. Take this Krsna consciousness philosophy. Your nationality will be first-class. [break] ...your nation, America. If they take it, everyone will take it. [break] Gambling.

Devotee (3): Probably gambling, lottery. [break] That Japanese man who you asked to come today, he reads Mandarin, Chinese. I gave him our Mandarin, Chinese Back to Godhead to read yesterday.

Prabhupada: Mandarin?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: How you are Mandarin?

Devotee (3): Chinese, from Hong Kong.

Prabhupada: This sky(?), they are making like Calcutta Esplanade. (indistinct) Victoria Memorial, you don't remember?

Devotee (2): I've only been three days (indistinct) Srila Prabhupada, before we left India.

Prabhupada: Oh. You were mostly in Bombay.

Devotee (2): Yes. [break]

Devotee (3): Yes. "Mata" means "eye" and they use "hari" to mean "day". "hari" means "day" here and eye is mata, so they say it's the eye of day.

Prabhupada: There is Sanskrit words like that. Divakara, divakara, sun's name, divakara. Diva means day and kara means manufacturer. Divakara, manufacturer of day, another name of sun. Cross here?

Devotee (3): Yes. (indistinct) That's all right. We'll watch. No problem. [break]

Prabhupada: It is our car. [break] (in car:) (indistinct) should be noted, not (indistinct) (end)