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721025RC.VRN
Room Conversation
-- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana Prabhupada: Now in Vrndavana here is one temple... There is likely that they cannot (indistinct for several minutes) Suppose everything is (indistinct). Therefore accepting (indistinct) how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Maharaja (indistinct). In this temple also, I am making (indistinct) decision. (break) ...is not in favor of any of the parties. So if it also comes in our hands, it has to be (indistinct). Now, supposing you have got three, then how you shall manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. (indistinct) position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. That, the (indistinct) that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are (indistinct) sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect sometimes somebody takes money in advance. So what is my position? (indistinct) the rentor may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the rentor, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also. (indistinct) Of course, I have got many (indistinct). But it is sentiment. We (indistinct) these things. This is criminal arrangement(?). Suppose when you the management of all these, how we shall manage?
Gurudasa: Not only how, but who.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gurudasa: Not how, as well as who. Because how is not... (break)
Prabhupada: The mouse are afraid of cats. So they held a meeting (indistinct). Then the resolution was passed that let there be a bell in the neck of the cat fixed up, so that when he is coming the bell will ring and we shall know, "Now he is coming." Immediately it was passed. The first resolution was passed. Then how to bell, who will go to bell? Because anyone who will go to bell the cat, he will be devoured. So the plan-making that this will be managed like this, there is a resolution, bells, fixing of a bell. Now go in and fix up the bell.
Gurudasa: It seems that Bhavananda prabhu is the best manager.
Prabhupada: Manager anyone can become, but manpower... We have no Indian members chanting Hare Krsna.
Gurudasa: No.
Prabhupada: So how much men we shall import? And whether it is feasible by importing men to manage this facility?
Gurudasa: Now, there seems to be a surplus of men in Bombay, from all the reports I've gotten. So some could come.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gurudasa: But...
Prabhupada: If we remain here and attract foreigners to come...
Gurudasa: The manpower will come from them.
Prabhupada: Not only visitors (indistinct), those who are spiritually inclined. In that way we may get opportunity.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: The other point is that when we manage these things, there are many gundas in Vrndavana. They will try to create some trouble. Just like yesterday. You were present? This boy was fighting with one man. You were not present?
Gurudasa: No. What time was it?
Prabhupada: When the minister came.
Gurudasa: I was not here at that time.
Prabhupada: Tried to pick up quarrel. (break) You have not met?
Gurudasa: Yes, I have met him. At Janmastami two years ago at New Vrindaban.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Panca-dravida: They will... Giriraja and Bhavananda and them, they will probably be in the third shift ,depending on how the land deal goes, whether it is settled by them.
Prabhupada: It must be settled. Not (indistinct). Therefore, I have asked so many people to go there. It must be settled.
Panca-dravida: The last situation I had heard was that everybody was agreeable, that Nair himself was agreeable and that everything was proceeding, but it was in the hands of the Municipality and that was going so slow, and that Nair himself, he is saying so many dubious things on the outside, but in complete agreement once you step into a room with him. So we are not so much sure. It's more or less in the hands of the Municipality, but who knows what is going on behind the table. Something like that. (break)
Prabhupada: Take a little breakfast?
Gurudasa: They said you wanted to see me?
Prabhupada: Huh? Oh, about that typing. (break) How we have secured that house in London.
Gurudasa: Oh, jaya! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: Berkshire Palace.
Devotee (1): Berkshire Palace, (indistinct).
Gurudasa: Duke of Windsor's castle(?).
Devotee (1): He's the king there, right? The queen's husband.
Prabhupada: He was to be the king, but he rejected for that one common girl. So the ministry asked him that "You have to give up this girl or you have to give up your throne." So he preferred to give up his throne. And the present queen's father, his second brother, he was made king, King George VI. Otherwise, this Duke of Windsor... When he refused to become the king, he became the Duke of Windsor and he was given this Berkshire Palace.
Gurudasa: He also is the one who has the Windsor Palace?
Prabhupada: No, Windsor Palace is the queen's. That is some seasonal residence. This Buckingham Palace is office. Actually for residential palace, the Windsor Palace. Windsor Palace?
Gurudasa: Windsor, yes.
Prabhupada: That Palace we see in passing.
Gurudasa: Yes, large palace.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gurudasa: Windsor.
Prabhupada: Berkshire Palace is also nearby.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: It is nearer to John's Tittenhurst. What is that?
Gurudasa: Tittenhurst Park.
Prabhupada: Tittenhurst Park. (To Sarasvati:) Come on, come on. Come on. So Sarasvati-devi, we have got good news: your father is coming tomorrow. It is all right? Syamasundara is coming tomorrow. You like?
Gurudasa: She says she has four fathers and mothers.
Prabhupada: Four fathers?
Gurudasa: And mothers.
Devotee (1): Who are they?
Prabhupada: Four fathers and four mothers?
Sarasvati: Four fathers and (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Syamasundara is coming tomorrow.
Sarasvati: I told her.
Prabhupada: You have told her?
Sarasvati: I told her that Syamasundara is coming very soon.
Prabhupada: Ohhhh, that's nice. (break) ...men Monday?
Acyutananda: We can send them but they won't go.
Prabhupada: So if you can make somebody agree, then he is coming tomorrow or day after tomorrow.
Acyutananda: But no one will agree to leave you.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Acyutananda: Letter from the press regarding my songbook.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Acyutananda: So I don't know what to do. Nobody would like to go, to leave you. We would like to go, but we wouldn't want to miss your classes.
Gurudasa: That is so.
Prabhupada: So you can make one condition, that if you return us, we can go at eight or nine, but you must return us by four. Then we can go. Make this condition. Instead of saying no, make some condition.
Acyutananda: It's the 29th?
Gurudasa: Yes.
Acyutananda: And he's coming tomorrow?
Prabhupada: I have asked him to come day after tomorrow. He comes generally at about ten.
Acyutananda: But I heard that last year we went and it was not a very big function. (break) I wrote that letter to this Lalitananda about this Jahnavi...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Jahnavi sampradaya? Oh, yes, yes.
Acyutananda: So they don't want to put it in Back to Godhead because I used the word infantile, naive, undereducated and incompetent and that's considered most ungentlemanly.
Devotee (2): They do not like publishing (indistinct) articles.
Acyutananda: But Prabhupada says fools and rascals and...
Devotee (2): I have written so many articles in the past two years and one has been published in two years.
Prabhupada: For Back to Godhead?
Devotee (2): Back to Godhead, yes. They say no one can understand them.
Acyutananda: (indistinct) from Subala dasa Maharaja that they have received his letter on September 16th and I have requested Karandhara to send him one Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Devotee (2): Karandhara has already said no. (break)
(Prabhupada converses in Hindi with guests) (break)
Gurudasa: ...then I must agitate my mind either how to stop the intoxicant or how to get it.
Prabhupada: And if we get the management of this temple, that will be triumph (indistinct) Vrndavana. It is the most important place.
Gurudasa: And actually, the men who came yesterday, this Mr. Nath and some men who come regularly, they would like to see it , because they like this...
Prabhupada: Mr. Nath?
Gurudasa: There is one man who comes every day. A Vrndavana resident.
Prabhupada: But the one thing, you know there is one physician?
Gurudasa: Printer and physician, yes?
Prabhupada: Printer also? He has published some Caitanya-caritamrta. What is his name?
Prabhupada: The physician's name.
Gurudasa: Nagia. Dr. Nagia, N-A-G-I-A.
Prabhupada: Nagia. What is his first name?
Gurudasa: His father's name...
Prabhupada: His father's name. I gave him one set of books, Bhagavata, (indistinct). So you have to inquire from him whether it is sold (indistinct). (break)
Gurudasa: Sudama Vipra Maharaja has such reverence for Siddha Svarupa, but the other students do not like that, because they think he is treating Siddha Svarupa with respect when he should be treating you with respect. So naturally, the students love you and so they don't like that.
Prabhupada: They do not like to give him extra...
Gurudasa: Respect, at the expense of yourself.
Prabhupada: There is no such thing. They will stop(?).
Gurudasa: Yes, they are nice boys. Secondly, for some reason they don't like..., they like to cook themselves.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Gurudasa: They like to cook for themselves. They cook without spices and like that, because they are thinking of their health. I gave them... I know, I can... (break)
Prabhupada: (indistinct) a nice place, a very open place. (indistinct)
Gurudasa: You have your choice.
Prabhupada: No, no, it's a very nice place, undoubtedly.
Gurudasa: Yes. The nicest place in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: One of the nicest buildings. He had so many buildings in Vrndavana from his dynasty, but they have all been taken by unscrupulous pujaris.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: They've been taken by unscrupulous pujaris that are just squatting illegally. And so he says, "All right, let them have it." But this one he has kept because it is so first class.
Prabhupada: So we shall have to deal with this pujari.
Gurudasa: This one...
Prabhupada: Is nice?
Gurudasa: Nice, and he jumps when the Maharaja speaks. I don't think he will get rid of this pujari.
Prabhupada: He is alone or he has got some associates?
Gurudasa: Alone.
Prabhupada: He is living with family?
Gurudasa: No.
Prabhupada: Alone.
Gurudasa: Alone.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Gurudasa: We will retain him in some way.
Prabhupada: Yes, you retain him.
Gurudasa: That is the system, that he stays there but we will do the pujari work.
Prabhupada: Yes. Give him salary.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: He is being paid?
Gurudasa: I think they must be.
Prabhupada: Anyway, whatever he is being paid, we shall pay. (indistinct).
Gurudasa: (indistinct) also knows it, because he announced to this chairman of the council that he will become the gardener and they will become the pujaris. So he is for that.
Prabhupada: The poor man, unless he gets some income, he becomes (indistinct).
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: He is not renounced. So let him (indistinct). So when you are going to talk to the Maharaja?
Gurudasa: I will be going today if he sends a car. Or if not, I think I will go tomorrow. But that means I cannot go to Delhi. But I don't think... I think Manasvi and Mr. Sarkar, the engineer, can handle this deal. It's just to see if they can give another allotment.
Prabhupada: Not that everywhere you have to go. You go to the important business.
Gurudasa: So which do you think is more importantthis deal or the palace? I think the palace.
Prabhupada: Anyone can purchase. But to get the palace it requires great tactful dealing.
Gurudasa: Subala Maharaja and I are going to Mathura today to find out the position what they have done in relationship to this sanction, written sanction.
Prabhupada: From Mathura, then go to Bharatpur.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: From Mathura, Bharatpur is near.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: I think there is train or bus.
Gurudasa: There is bus, train. But the thing is, he may be sending a car here.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Gurudasa: So I am getting a message from that boy who wrote the article, with the moustache. The boy who wrote the article, he has gone to Bharatpur with that note.
Prabhupada: Oh. He is very good boy.
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Keep him as our friend. Give him nice food, prasadam. He is intelligent. He can see that aratik, very nice.
Gurudasa: He has been coming since the beginning. Since we first came he has been coming.
Prabhupada: So keep him as good friend.
Gurudasa: I try to do that with everyone.
Prabhupada: Yes. Especially he is very nicely inclined. He is married or not?
Gurudasa: No.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) what does he do?
Gurudasa: He lives with his father, and he goes to Bon Maharaja University.
Prabhupada: For education? Yes.
Gurudasa: But I asked him, "Do they teach any spiritual philosophy there," and he said no.
Prabhupada: There is no spiritual philosophy. It is an academic, ordinary college. People understand that where is the credit, there are so many colleges. Responsible people, they understand that I am doing much more valuable thing. So what is the use of these schools and colleges? That (indistinct) school, college is not very good. And there are so many schools and colleges. That is not a very extraordinary thing.
Gurudasa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Thakura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Gurudasa: ...without spiritual... Without spiritual it is void.
Prabhupada: What do they say?
Gurudasa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. "
Prabhupada: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.
Gurudasa: In Bombay rather than Mayapur?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Gurudasa: In Bombay rather than...
Prabhupada: Everywhere. Everywhere. But you make higher study, higher study, higher study.
Gurudasa: Mayapur can be the highest.
Prabhupada: (indistinct), or everywhere this existence(?) should be lower class, higher class. But our all institutions should be for giving spiritual. We have got so many books. Simply he has to learn English and Sanskrit, that's all. (indistinct) So we are not going to follow the university curriculum, no. We have got our own.
Gurudasa: We have had experience in the university, and it has not satisfied us. We have come to you.
Prabhupada: Not only you, I know what (indistinct). What nonsense they give.
Gurudasa: Yamuna?
Gurudasa: Where is that file, that spiritual exposition? I wanted to show it to Prabhupada.
Gurudasa: Recently? I'll look again.
Prabhupada: So we shall now go?
Gurudasa: Yes, we can go now.
Prabhupada: What's the time now? Six?
Gurudasa: (indistinct) upstairs. Shall I get it?
Prabhupada: No.
Gurudasa: I should put it on. You're always asking me the time.
(break)
Devotee (3): Also in Los Angeles they are buying press?
Prabhupada: That is small press. That is not for printing books, some small pamphlets.
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Ah.
Gurudasa: George is going to make any more records, recordings?
Gurudasa: Really?
Prabhupada: Yes, recent.
Gurudasa: With talking on it, vocal?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: With some talking on it.
Prabhupada: That I do not know. Syamasundara is coming tomorrow. Where is that telegram?
Devotee (3): It's just here.
Prabhupada: (break) ...India, I'll have to go South Africa. Johannesburg?
Gurudasa: Johannesburg.
Prabhupada: Johannesburg, yes. There also we are meeting with great success. And from Johannesburg, then I shall go to London. In Moscow also we have got a small center. I went to Moscow.
Indian man: Russians running it?
Prabhupada: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.
Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?
Prabhupada: They do not permit, but they are holding class.
Indian man: Holding class.
Prabhupada: Yes, reading Bhagavad-gita. And I am getting that boy married with my one French girl disciple. Then he will be strong. (laughs) We are also playing politics. You know that...
Gurudasa: Mandakini.
Prabhupada: Mandakini, yes. Very nice girl. You have seen her?
Devotee (3): Very nice pujari.
Prabhupada: Very intelligent, educated, beautiful, everything. And I have asked her that "You go to Russia and marry that boy." She has accepted.
Indian man: She has accepted.
Prabhupada: Great risk.
Indian man: Great risk.
Prabhupada: Yes. These rascals at any time can arrest anyone and keep in him the concentration camp. Oh, it is a dangerous government. And they will take you anywhere, nobody will know. Just like even a great person, Kruschev, nobody knows his whereabouts. It is a very dangerous government. But as they are advertising, people are not happy. Moscow city is nice, but it is old constructed. The same Communistic government has not done anything. There are very big, big buildings, nice roads, everything, but they are all old, not new.
Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?
Prabhupada: Wealth?
Devotee (3): What are they doing with their wealth if they are not investing it in economic...
Prabhupada: They're simply spending for military, that's all.
Prabhupada: That is their business. They are keeping a strong military strength, that's all.
Gurudasa: The sign of piety there is vegetarian.
Prabhupada: Who says?
Gurudasa: Dr. Chandra. He just came back.
Prabhupada: From Russia?
Gurudasa: From Russia again.
Prabhupada: Nonsense. There is nothing but meat.
Gurudasa: He said that some people who are religious, they are vegetarian.
Prabhupada: I don't think there is any vegetarian, because in the store you will get only meat. There is no vegetable, no fruit. Syamasundara had to spend two hours for collecting food. There is no rice, (indistinct), nothing. For vegetarians it is very, very difficult to live in Moscow.
Devotee (2): Just recently the Russians went to the United States and bought huge quantities of grains for Russia.
Prabhupada: There are no grains.
Devotee (2): They bought some wheat.
Prabhupada: It is a barren land, icy land, that's all. Huge land icy.
Devotee (3): They are being punished.
Prabhupada: And I was in month of June, still in the morning the wind was so cold. And there is double glass in every window, double glass. Just like aeroplane, double. And at half past eleven in the month of June, when in your country it is half past eleven o'clock, that is evening. And at half past three o'clock, morning. And still the little night, that is just like dusk; it is not completely dark. And laborer class... (speaks to someone in Hindi) Keep it open. (break) (indistinct) Every corner of the street, Lenin's picture. All books are sold, they are Lenin. No other literature. You cannot get taxi. Poor men, they cannot pay for taxi. Very little number. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him, "Now we shall go. Get me taxi." So he, "Yes, it is Moscow." So he got down, he personally showed me, "Instead of taking taxi waiting, please go in this way when you go to your hotel." He showed me shortcut. People are walking, and they are running for the bus. It is not at all a rich country. A poor country. And if you see the shops, you will find old (indistinct), just like antique shop. Because you cannot purchase generally, everything you have to purchase from government store, and in queue. It is botheration. And actually in India it is going to happen like this. Everything you have to purchase in queue. Here?
Indian man: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: So you have to waste so much time.
Gurudasa: Milk you have to purchase in queue.
Prabhupada: Everything.
Panca-dravida: I have experienced that directly in India, Prabhupada, because I'm working with these merchants all the time, and the government is nationalizing and taking over one industry after another. They took over the control of flour, they took over the control of sugar, they've already got rice, then they took over the exportation of textiles. And I say, "Don't you have anything in your Constitution to prevent this?" They said, "No. We have voted in the government for six years; they can do as they like. The only way is to wait six years and vote them out again. But there is no provision..."
Prabhupada: The future is not very nice. And government management means no one's servant.
Prabhupada: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.
Prabhupada: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.
Gurudasa: There is more supply than demand.
Indian man: Than demand, yes. That is the problem there: what to do with the stuff that you have got and that you are producing. That's an economic problem.
Panca-dravida: Not just supply, quality. When you buy an orange and you have a glass of orange juice, it's orange, it's not yellow. (laughter)
Devotee (3): But by their lack of demand, we are reaping a harvest.
Prabhupada: Yes, especially in California, oranges, if you compare orange here available... Dates, first-class dates, first-class orange. There is watermelon. All season you get watermelon, karmuj(?). First-class watermelon. And karmuj. And what is that special karmuj produced in Kesi-ghata? That greenish?
Gurudasa: Honeydew?
Indian man: There is no special name for it.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is special in Vrndavana. That greenish.
Indian man: Special quality.
Prabhupada: Yes, in your country it is called honey comb.
Devotees: Honeydew.
Prabhupada: Honeydew, yes. So I immediately remember your Kesi-ghata karmuj, first class. So sweet, little greenish. But you can get all the year round. Actually America is favored. Therefore, I repeatedly say that you Americans, you are graced by God, you simply take this Krsna consciousness, you will become first-class nation. And actually they are taking more than other countries. (break)
Devotee (3): India will become Communist also?
Prabhupada: It has already begun. India will become Communist. What do you think?
Indian man: It's difficult to predict. I don't think so soon.
Gurudasa: One life member very dramatically the other day said it is not around the corner...
Prabhupada: Especially in Bengal they have become Communist.
Gurudasa: She says we are amidst it.
Prabhupada: Madras they have become Communist.
Gurudasa: She says we are amidst Communism.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: She said it is not around the corner, we are amidst it now. So it's very obvious.
Indian man: We are in the midst of it.
Gurudasa: That is what she said.
Panca-dravida: Even the optimistic merchants and people you talk to, I say, "It is Communist government?" They say, "Well, it is Communist-minded government." The government has printed in the paper one headline recently that says by next March..., what is that called, Rana, Rana or Rava, next March calendar.
Prabhupada: Ravan?
Panca-dravida: Rava or something, a particular notation on the calendar, it corresponds to March or April, ra something. I don't know the exact period of time, but by March, the government says they will completely..., they want to completely take over the control of wheat by this time. They have already taken over the control of atta and flour and now suji. They want to take over the control of wheat and the control of sugar completely. So all these things we are seeing is what they are doing, they are taking over control, they are rationing the items, but in the ration shop you can get 800 grams of the product and then you have to go out onto the market and buy at outrageous prices, because nobody can feed a family on 800 grams of sugar a month. It's very little for five people. The price of sugar has gone up over a rupee and a half since the government took over.
Prabhupada: Ration means black market. (break)
Devotee (3): ...especially in Bengal. (break) You come to Calcutta, we will keep you forever.
Prabhupada: We have published one brochure. (break)
Panca-dravida: ...nicely in the Krsna book about the sacrifices of Vasudeva. Where Lord Krsna speaks and says to the assembled sages and ascetics that "Seeing you is the perfection of these eyes and perfection of life," and that "Those persons who go to the holy places only to take bath there or to see the Deities in the temple, they are no better than animals like the ass." I've been thinking that how you have presented this ISKCON movement as an assembly of devotees all over the world so they don't even have to go to the holy places. Simply by walking into one of your temples is like walking into Vrndavana and having the association of these great ascetics and sages, because your teachings are (indistinct). (break)
Prabhupada: ...picture?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Similar Deity we'll have in this London Berkshire Palace.
Indian man: They don't look like the Deities, they look like boy and girl.
Indian man: (indistinct) get a closer look at it.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is very nice. People come to see the Deities in Bombay.
Indian man: You brought them from Jaipur?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is very nice. And especially at New Vrindaban, oh, Krsna is so attractive.
Indian man: But they're all from Jaipur. Jaipur is the place.
Devotee (3): We are just packing for sending one set of Jaipur... (break)
Prabhupada: Vrndavana also you can get.
Indian man: Bombay will be very expensive. I think...
Prabhupada: No, we don't pay anything. We work ourself.
Indian man: Oh, I see. Then why not here in Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: Yes, we can also have.
Indian man: For publications, there should be a central place.
Prabhupada: In our ISKCON Press in New York, our men are working.
Indian man: That's fine.
Prabhupada: We don't pay anything outside. We do everything ourself.
Indian man: Good, very good.
Prabhupada: Even ordinary repairing, we do ourself. We cannot pay outsider, it is so expensive.
Indian man: You should have that press here in Vrndavana. All this kind of work, reading, writing, printing, composing, it should be done here in Vrndavana. Because this is the proper place...
Prabhupada: We (indistinct) botheration.
Indian man: You don't pay (indistinct) in Bombay?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Indian man: Bombay?
Prabhupada: No.
Indian man: No (indistinct).
Prabhupada: No. There the people have a sufficient income. Here the municipality has no income, (indistinct) this all botheration. He cannot stock. Suppose if you want to stock fifty thousand worth paper, unnecessarily you have to pay five percent.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Five to ten percent. Now fifty thousand at five to ten percent, how much? Unnecessarily you have to (indistinct). And to take back that octroi, I have got experience when I was in Allahabad doing business, you know, to take back the octroi, it is hanging. I could not develop my wholesale business due to the octroi. Then I arranged, because I was agent of Dr. Bose's factory. I was disbursing goods direct from Calcutta and sending bill from Allahabad. Octroi botheration I have got experience. You cannot do any large-scale business, the rascal government do not (indistinct) it. Due to this octroi botheration, nobody can do any large-scale business. Either you have to keep your go-down beyond the octroi limit.
Indian man: You can do that.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Indian man: You can do that here in..., because the octroi limit is very close to your (indistinct). It's just (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Why the government is still keeping this octroi botheration, I do not know. It is old system. Practically in UP and Punjab, this octroi system. In Bihar there is no octroi, in Bengal there is no octroi. I think in Bombay also, Bombay, I mean Maharastra province, there is no octroi. Only in UP and Punjab. There is so much botheration.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Harayana also. (break)
Gurudasa: ...Gauranga altar. When he saw that picture, he said, "Why is the door closed in the Guru-Gauranga altar?"
Prabhupada: There is no closed. No, it is three doors are open. That is not Guru-Gauranga, that is extra.
Gurudasa: Oh, oh, I see.
Devotee (3): There is two extra. (break)
Prabhupada: Not regularly.
Indian man: Not regularly.
Prabhupada: I simply came to see what they are doing.
Indian man: Which place did you come?
Prabhupada: Kosi. You were present there.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: In that parikrama?
Indian man: In that parikrama.
Prabhupada: And I was initiated in Allahabad after return from parikrama.
Indian man: (indistinct) parikrama. That way I am senior by you. (laughs)
Devotee (3): From Indian people in America, we have learned about that.
Indian man: Huh?
Devotee (3): In America, we have learned from Indian people about that. (break)
Prabhupada: Why not? You are qualified.
Indian man: I do not like to leave, not that I don't like to visit foreign countries. Just now, as a matter of fact, I don't have time to think of anything else except that (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Hm?
Indian man: Until I complete that work...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.
Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.
Prabhupada: When?
Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)
Prabhupada: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.
Gurudasa: Did you ever...
Prabhupada: Dr. Rao you know?
Indian man: I know Dr. Rao.
Prabhupada: He is a...
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes, he is a scientist.
Indian man: He is a scientist or something. What's he doing now about that machine?
Gurudasa: Have you ever continued the correspondence with that heart surgeon?
Prabhupada: No.
Gurudasa: He was not serious?
Prabhupada: No, he admitted. He admitted that "You know better than us."
Gurudasa: So then why he didn't scientifically try to find out more?
Prabhupada: Our process of presentation is different. Their process is different. But they can appreciate that we know better than them. The same example: just like we accept cow dung is pure. Why pure? Because Vedas says. The scientific way is not like that. Is not that?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupada: They must prove by analysis, by chemical analysis. There is difference between the modern scientist and our process of understanding.
Gurudasa: Dr. Kapoor has written an article about that, this question. The one that will be published.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: The one that we will publish.
Prabhupada: You have sent?
Gurudasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Our process: Krsna says that He is the Supreme, we accept. Not blindlybecause other acaryas, they also accept. Now some rascal is taking advantage of that statement, "If Krsna can say, 'I am the Supreme, I am God,' so I can also say." Mayavadi philosophy. (break) Swamis could not do anything, he was (indistinct). There are so many. Vivekananda went in 1893, three years before my birth, and what he has done?
Indian man: He returned converted.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Indian man: He returned converted. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Yes. Instead of converting, he became converted.
Devotee (3): (break) ...was kicked out.
Prabhupada: Who is that?
Devotee (3): Swami Satcitananda.
Prabhupada: He was kicked out?
Devotee (3): He was kicked out.
Prabhupada: By?
Devotee (3): By the upper echelon of his... He was... They found he was having sex with his secretary. So she...
Prabhupada: They are all like that.
Devotee (3): She told her husband, and they told him either he would have to leave or he would have to renounce the title of swami or he would have to lessen the restrictions on brahmacari. So he refused to do all three, then he joined together (indistinct). This was told to me by a friend of Bhaktijana's named Avery, who was one of... (break)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Vivekananda.
Indian man: Huh?
Indian man: Is it all right (indistinct)?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Indian man: How many rooms?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Indian man: How many rooms?
Gurudasa: Thirty.
Indian man: Thirty rooms.
Gurudasa: Small, behind the altar.
Prabhupada: But the temple is very nice. Well kept.
Indian man: Well kept.
Prabhupada: It is colored nicely.
Devotee (3): If he gives to you, what will we make there?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee (3): If the king gives to you, what will we make there?
Prabhupada: We shall make a guest house for visitors. You are visitor now.
Devotee (3): Then you will have two temples in Vrndavana?
Prabhupada: Yes. We can take all the temples. (break) ...completely stop. (break) (indistinct), he was a nonsense. This is the tendency in India also.
Indian man: Fortunately, it's not so with the great majority of people.
Prabhupada: Not people. I am speaking of the leaders.
Indian man: Leaders. The new generation that is now coming up, they are mostly atheists.
Prabhupada: These teachers came with that (indistinct), although they have been (indistinct). (break)
Indian man: Top-ranking scientists have begun to realize that they simply don't know anything.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Indian man: Modern science, these top-ranking scientists, not the middle ones, the topmost scientists, they all say that "We really do not know anything."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is real (indistinct).
Panca-dravida: I was being trained up in this. For one-and-a-half years I was going to MIT in Boston and planning to go into this chemical, chemistry or chemical engineering or metallurgy, something like that. But I could see that actually the people around me, my student body, all the people in the school, they were so maladjusted and miserable that I decided "If this is the result of their scientific training that they are so miserable, I'm going to leave here immediately," and I did so. I got out as quickly as I could. (break) ...see that their training is just simply bringing them misery in life and, therefore, there is no purpose in acquiring such knowledge. And Prabhupada describes it as being like the jewel on the hood of a snake, more dangerous.
Prabhupada: Once I was invited to speak in that institution, MIT. So I questioned, "Where is your department of technology to understand the difference between dead body and living body?" So I spoke on this. So the students appreciated. After my lecture, they gathered around me. How do you explain? What is that technology, why the man is dead? Science is simply based on this bodily concept. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13].
Indian man: But about body also they don't know anything.
Prabhupada: That also they have no perfect knowledge.
Indian man: About matter they say... (indistinct) has written a book in which... (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1972/oct/vrndavana/october/25/1972 Previous: Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana Next: Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana
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