711211RC.DEL
Room Conversation

December 11, 1971, New Delhi
Prabhupada:
The materialistic person, they have only one experience: this cosmic manifestation. Beyond this they have no other vision. Their senses are imperfect. Just like the astronomers, they have got big, big telescope, many other instruments. They want to see through the eyes how many stars are there, how the planets are moving, and whatever imperfect knowledge they receive, by that little knowledge they advertise themselves as great scientists. But they do not calculate that "We are trying to see the stars and planets with powerful binoculars. That means our eyes are imperfect.'' And what is the guarantee that the instruments which they're using, they are also perfect? Because that machine, that binocular, is also made by a person who is imperfect. So what is the guarantee that by seeing through binocular or microscope, the conclusion arrived, it is perfect? What is your answer? Your eyes are imperfect, that's a fact. Otherwise, why you are using binocular, microscope? Eyes are imperfect. Originally your eyes are imperfect. Now, eyes or other senses, it doesn't matter. Sense is sense. So you are manufacturing a machine, some instrument, by the same imperfect senses, then what is the guarantee that this machine, this binocular, if you see through the binocular, the knowledge is perfect? What is your answer?
Devotee: Can't be perfect.
Prabhupada: Answer? Any one other?
Devotee (2): Perfect knowledge cannot be received with imperfect senses. Only through perfect senses can perfect knowledge be received.
Prabhupada: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?'' Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.
The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They're conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Gunaih karmani. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, "(indistinct) that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect.'' There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he's conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-maninah. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam they have been described as vimukta-maninah, that "I have become now liberated, maninah.'' Self-complacent, thinking that "I have become now liberated. Now I become Narayana, God.'' These Mayavadi sannyasis, they address among themselves as namah narayana. That means each one of them has become as good as Narayana, because Narayana is mukta. Narayana parah. Sankaracarya says parah. Parah means liberated. Parah and aparah. Aparah means conditioned. So narayana parah, avyaktat. Narayana is transcendental to this cosmic manifestation. He's above. So the Mayavadi philosopher, they think that "I have become now a liberated, as good as Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.'' But Bhagavata says, "No. You are simply thinking like that. You are rascal.'' Bhagavata challenges: "You are thinking that you have become now liberated, but you are a rascal.'' The Bhagavata, Vyasadeva is very learned, but he says "rascal,'' but in a very sweet language. (laughter). Vimukta maninah. Maninah: "You are contemplating.'' Why? Tvayy asta, ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas [SB 10.2.32]. Our test is there. "I am liberated. I am Narayana.'' Why? "How you call me rascal?'' Yes, we have got a test: ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah. Tvayy asta-bhavad. Still they have not reached the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply impersonal idea, and self-complacent that "I have become now Narayana.'' So this kind of knowledge is avisuddha, impure, impure knowledge, because the test is, unless one comes to the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge is imperfect. So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Narayana. Therefore we can immediately test that "Here is a rascal.'' Vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacari, then I took sannyasa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?'' Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound. Silently. "Still I am rascal?'' Yes. You are rascal. "Why?'' Aruhya krcchrena: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal.
So you have to understand by the symptoms. What is that symptom? Because you left this world, "This world is false. Brahman is truth,'' then why you are coming again this false world to open hospital, school, philosophy, humanitarian, all this nonsense? Why you are accepting? If it is false, and if you are in full knowledge, then why you are coming to the false platform? Therefore you are rascal. You rejected this world as false. Then why you are coming down again to the plat..., false platform. That is rascaldom. That means your conclusion was wrong. Hmm. Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Kalabatri(?). Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Kalabatri(?) is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhagavata says, aruhya krcchrena: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances,'' aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32], "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth,'' but patanty adhah, "falls down.''
The same example: just like so-called scientists, Russian and American, for so many years they're trying to go to the moon planet, nearest planet. But here is no shelter. Actually, I do not know whether they have gone, but why they are coming back? Let them remain there, construct house there, there is everything. If there is no such possibility, why these rascals are going there? Practically, if it is full of dust only, why these rascals are going to see the dust every time? (laughter) Ask these rascals that "What benefit? You're spending so much money and going to the moon planet and touching, 'Now my flag is on the dust,' (laughter) and go back with little pebbles, 'Oh, we have gone.' '' No. Moon-reaching day, holiday. Nixon, another rascal. Great rascal. Holiday. And what do you want there? Patanty adhah. After so much endeavor, trying to go to the moon planet, they are failing. And what to speak of other planets? What to speak of the Brahmaloka, Tapaloka, Jana...? They are there. We are seeing every day, at night, there are so many. Who is going there? The nearest planet, which is about 200,000 miles, I think it is so, from here, the moon planet, and they cannot go. And what to speak of other planets? There are many. They do not..., cannot calculate how far they are, but we see every night there. So how imperfect knowledge they are. That is my point. And still they are going as scientists. Lokasya ajanatah. They are so fools and rascal, still they are passing on as scientists, big men, learned men. No. None of them. This is our challenge. None of them. And who is learned? Learned is Vyasadeva. Learned is Krsna.
So we have to take knowledge from Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva. How? Vyasadeva is the learned, most learned than others. How? That is explained in the Bhagavata, Srimad-Bhagavatam: bhakti-yogena manasi. Because he has adopted bhakti-yoga, bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale [SB 1.7.4]. Bhakti-yogena, by practice of bhakti-yoga one's mind and intelligence become cleansed, dirtiless, dirt..., without any dirt. Just like the mirror, if it is without any dirt, it is cleansed, clear, you can see everything rightly, your face, or even in the spot in the face, everything, corner to corner, very nicely reflected. So bhakti-yogena, by practicing this bhakti-yoga, one becomes cleared in consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness. Then everything comes. Now suppose personally, myself, we are challenging, we are calling them by names, "rascal,'' but I am not a scientist. I never studied astronomy, astrology, or anything. But why I am telling? What power I have got? But I am challenging on the words of a superior answer. I am confident that the words spoken by Vyasadeva or Krsna, that is perfect. Therefore they are rascals, because their statement do not corroborate. In other words, we can understand. That is our advantage. Bhakti-yogena. If you practice bhakti-yoga, yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau [SU 6.23], if one is, one has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his spiritual master, yatha-deve... Deve means the Supreme Lord, and guru, and guru also, the spiritual master. A person who has got unflinching faith in these two personalities-guru and Krsnathen the facility will be that all the revealed scriptures will be manifest automatically, even though he is not, not very learned. The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Krsna is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many placesin the schools, colleges, universities. They're surprised how they're speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Krsna and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyasadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Narada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Puranas and others. He was not satisfied. When Narada said that "You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things. You try to describe the glories of the Lord...'' So after his instruction, bhakti-yogena, by practicing bhakti-yogena, manasi, unto the mind, pranihite, mind became settled up; intelligence, right intelligence came, and everything became amala. Amala means without any material contamination. Then he saw apasyat purusam purnam. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead and also maya. Both things he saw.
So those who are in devotional service, they have got two things: they can see what is maya and what is Krsna. That is perfect life. Then he can understand how this world is going on, how Krsna is working. Everything becomes revealed. Bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Otherwise, what qualification we have got in comparison, their M.A., Ph.D., D.S.D. and so on, so on? Still they cannot touch the right point. Just like Dr. Stahl in Berkeley University. He talked with me, and at last he became silent. So we can challenge like that. Just like we are discussing so many philosophies. So bhakti-yoga is so nice. So you execute bhakti-yoga very nicely, and then you become the topmost learned man in the world. This is a fact.
yaya sammohito jiva
atmanam tri-gunatmakam
paro 'pi manute 'nartham
tat-krtam cabhipadyate
[SB 1.7.5]
anarthopasamam saksad
bhakti-yogam adhoksaje
lokasyajanato vidvams
cakre satvata-samhitam
[SB 1.7.6]
So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Executed properly, very simple method. Then you become the most learned man in the world. Even without going through the books, they will be revealed. Krsna will reveal. Krsna is srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [SB 1.2.17]. As you become purified by hearing the glories of the Lord, Krsna, punya-sra, hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani, the dirty things which push obstacles and impure understanding, they are removed. They're washed up. Washed up. Just like if your room is dirty, there..., there is possibility... Therefore I ask you, keep cleansed, your bathing, your clothes, your room. Otherwise you'll suffer hepatitis or jaundice, this, that. You'll suffer, because you are not clean. If you clear, you remain cleansed, then there will be no disease. If you remain cleansed, you eat properly-don't eat more, don't eat lessthere will be no disease, no doctor. That's a fact. But you do not know cleanliness, although you are..., that is because your, your cleanliness is with machine. And without machine, you cannot keep clean. Why not this broomstick is sufficient? If in India machine is not available, you cannot be clean? Keep everything cleansed-utensils, plates, teeth, hands, feet. Use sufficient water. There will be no (indistinct). Dirty things should be removed, and cleansed inside and outside. Inside cleansed: simply Krsna consciousness, always thinking of Krsna. That is inside clean. And outside, that is also required. You cannot neglect, because outside unclean means inside also you'll see unclean. If you keep both sides clean, then you will be healthy inside and outside. Srnvatam sva-kathah krsna punya-sravana-kirtanah hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani. Abhadrani, all inauspicious things, that will be cleaned. They should be washed. To become sacred thread means he must be suci. Satya samah damah saucam, saucam. One must be very clean. That is brahminism. Not simply having a sacred thread: "Prabhupada, give me sacred thread, sacred thread, sacred thread,'' everybody. You have got sacred thread, that is certificate, but what is your saucam? Cleanliness. The brahmana's name is suci. He is always cleansed. Everyone will see, and he'll immediately feel how cleansed he is. What is the difficulty? God has given sufficient water. For cleanliness you simply require water, that's all. No antiseptic bottle-Dettol, this, that, so many. You are manufacturing so many rascal things, but ultimately unclean. Ultimately unclean. But by God's arrangement, by Krsna's arrangement, simple... (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1971/nov/new_delhi/december/11/1971

If you Love Me Distribute My Books -- Srila Prabhupada