Prabhupada: "...you, under the direction of Lord Siva. I worshiped Lord Siva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that." So Sanatana Gosvami said "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There were heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch it to iron. It will become gold." "Oh, you are very ... You're so... Now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold." So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that, "Lord Siva directed that Sanatana Gosvami has the greatest benediction, I do not think this stone is greatest benediction because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanatana Gosvami that "Lord Siva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable. Otherwise, why would you keep it in the garbage? You must have something more valuable. So you must give me that because that because Lord Siva directed me to receive from you." Then Sanatana Gosvami told him, "Would you like to take that?" "Yes, sir. I have come for that purpose." So he asked him, "First of all, throw away the stone in the Yamuna River." So he threw away the stone. "Sit down and chant Hare Krsna."

Devotees: Oh! (Laughter.)

Prabhupada: "Forget everything. Sit down with me and chant Hare Krsna."

Gargamuni: He did it?

Prabhupada: Yes. Because he associated with sadhu, Lord Siva, Sanatana Gosvami. So everything was purified, changed. By association, good association, everything is possible. Therefore you have to make this association of Krsna consciousness so perfect that anyone who comes in contact with that association, he becomes purified automatically. The association is so important. Anyone who will come in contact with the association, he'll be purified. Just like by association one becomes contaminated, similarly, by counter-association, one becomes free from contamination.

Krsna dasa: Swamiji? I'd like to ask you is this good enough for the flute? This would be for the head of the flute.

Prabhupada: Wood? It can't be.(?)

Krsna dasa: No. I'd cast it in gold.

Prabhupada: Oh. This ivory?

Krsna dasa: Yes, that's ivory.

Prabhupada: So what do you want to do?

Krsna dasa: That would be on the head of the flute.

Prabhupada: Flute? Oh, nice.

Krsna dasa: Oh, the lion's all right.

Prabhupada: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark. Shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that... But that is also good.

Syamasundara: Swamiji? I have obtained today a large piece of...

Prabhupada: Stone? Flat.

Syamasundara: Yes. Marble. For Krsna comes home,(?) back of Krsna.(?)

Prabhupada: Very nice. So it is not so high. How much it is, height?

Syamasundara: This one is only for practice. And then I have obtained...

Prabhupada: Oh, oh.

Syamasundara: ...a large one. It is very difficult stone because it's like glass almost. I have to practice. And later a larger one.

Prabhupada: So first of all you... This is called, what is called, test stone.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Prasthipata, it is called in Bengali. They test gold. By rubbing on the stone, they can understand what is the value of the gold. In India they are simply keeping a stone like this, and you take something golden, and they will at once test by simply rubbing on it. So experienced. By the glazing of the gold they will understand what is the value of this. It is experience. But this stone is used.

Syamasundara: Marble?

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, as soon as you get that church, all the grhasthas and brahmacaris, they will have to bring money. (Laughter) Is that not right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." (Laughter) Because in your western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no tax-man. So what is your question?

Devotee: My question was... No, that's a good answer.

Prabhupada: (Laughs) Yes. Your materialistic life is full of anxiety. That is the main symptom of materialistic life. We are always anxious, everyone. President Johnson, he's anxious, "Oh, my presidency is going on. Now I shall no longer be president." He's thinking, very much anxious. And, similarly, you are also thinking, another man is also thinking. Everyone is anxious. Nobody is free from anxiety. And when you go to Krsnaloka or any Vaikuntha planet, the first thing is that you have no anxiety. That is spiritual life. Always joyful. (Baby cooing). No anxiety. Because she knows, "My mother is there. She will protect me from everything." So no anxiety means when you know that "Krsna will protect me," you have no anxiety. To become in the family of Krsna. We are already in the family of Krsna, but in a different way. Just like if one is in the prisonhouse, he is in the government's protection, but in a different way.

Yamuna: Swamiji, Janaki-devi wrote me this very nice letter where she had a dream that there was a gigantic platform above the surface of the earth, and all of our devotees, our Godbrothers and sisters and you, were assembled on this gigantic platform for sankirtana. And we had such a thunderous joy, magnificent kirtana, that the whole earth... When you said, "Jaya om param paramahamsa," the whole earth bowed down to you like this. And we were all crying, so happy. And you said, "Now my Guru Maharaja is satisfied." That was her dream.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you for your dreaming like that. It is very pleasing to me. Yes, I want to see like that. [Break]

Devotee: Swamiji, is the dream world the real world?

Prabhupada: Yes, it is reflection of the real world. Reflection is real for the time being. This world is also dream, for the time being. Because this body is not permanent, so it is also a dream. A dream for 100 years or 50 years or 70 years, but that dream is 50 minutes. At night we see the dream for 50 minutes, and this dream is 50 years. That's all. It is a question of time. It is also dream. But dream is reality... So long we see it and enjoy it, that is reality. Just like a man in dream he's crying. It is dream. But the effect is there. Reaction is there. In that sense, dream is reality. Reality, temporary reality, flickering reality. Otherwise, it is reality. (end)