Initiations – December 28, 1968, Los Angeles

Beyond This Universe.

Prabhupada: New students they are going to be initiated today. But one thing you should know that people may not think that we are concerned with something old-fashioned. When the world is progressing to reach the moon planet we are chanting Hare Krsna. The people may not misunderstand that we are lagging behind with the scientific advancement. We have already passed all this scientific advancement.

In the Bhagavad-gita this attempt of the human being to reach other higher planet is not a new thing. They are advertising in the paper, that the man's first step in the moon planet. But they do not know, millions and millions of men went there, and they have again come back. This is not a first time. This is time old practice. And in the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly stated:

My dear Arjuna, even if you go to the highest planetary system which is called Brahmaloka, punar avartinaḥ, you have to come back. So, this is not a new thing, this is known to these Krsna conscious people.

So Krsna says we should always remember that we are Krsna conscious people. What Krsna says we take it as the absolute truth. Therefore, Krsna says that even if you attempt to reach to the highest planet which is called Brahmaloka. There are many planetary systems according to Vedic literature. The planetary system in which we are now, this is called Bhūr-loka.

Above this planet system is Bhuvar-loka. Above that planetary system there is Svargaloka. This moon belongs to the Svargaloka planetary system. Above the Svargaloka there is Janaloka. Then above that there is Maharloka, above that there is Satyaloka. Similarly, there are below planetary system: Tala, Atala, Nitala, Talatala, Patala, Rasatala, like that. So, there are 14 status of planetary system within this universe and our

Gayatrimantra: om bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. The sun is the chief planet within this universe. The sun is described in the Brahma-samhita:

So, our aim is govindam adi-purusam. It is not that those who are worshipping Govinda, Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are not aware of this. They know it very well. And therefore, in this verse, it is said, yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam. The sun is the chief amongst all planetary systems. It is just like the eye.

Or it is the eye of the Supreme Lord, yac-caksur esa savita sakala. savita sakala-grahanam. Actually, without sun we cannot see, we may be very proud of our eyes. Can you show me what you can see? First of all, let me know. Eh? You cannot see even your next-door neighbor. By your eyes. Eh? You are challenging, "can you show me God?" What you can see? What is the value of your this nonsense eyes? But things are going on.

Some great Swami, this this this spiritual master, not at that time Swami he was a student. "Oh, can you show me God?" He said, "yes." And he said, "yes I have seen God." Oh God is so cheap thing? Eh? You cannot see anything, what to speak of God, without sunshine. Therefore, the sun is called, yac-caksur esa sakala-grahanam [Bs 5.52]. Without sunrise you are blind, you're blind. At night can you see anything? Oh, you have to arrange for electricity, this that, so many things because the sun is not there. Try to understand everything practically don't be fools.

So, this sun is only one sun but there are millions and trillions of suns. That is also stated in the Brahma-samhita:

Yasya prabha prabhavato, the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna, Govinda is called brahma-jyoti. In that brahma-jyoti there are millions and trillions of universes. Just like within the sunshine there are millions and trillions of planets. Similarly, in the effulgence, shining effulgence of the body of Krsna which is called brahma-jyoti. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anḍa-koti, so we get information millions and trillions of universes and in each universe, there is one sun.

So, there are millions and trillions of universes and millions and trillions of suns and moons and planets and so many things. But Krsna says that if you try to go in one of these planets then you will simply waste your time. That's all. Simply waste your time. Practically also you see, now somebody has gone to the moon planet but what will you get? And what the human society will get out of it?

After spending so much money, so much energy, ten years adventure, if you have gone to moon planet and simply touched it. Then what is the benefit of that? You remain there and call your other friends, "come here." And even if you go there and remain there, what benefit will go?

So long we are in this material world, either this planet or other planets. The four things, birth death old age and disease will follow you. You cannot get rid. Suppose if you go and domicile in moon planet, if you can of course. By oxygen mask how long you can stay? But if you get that opportunity to stay there then what you will gain? You will gain a little more duration of life, that's all. Not that you are going to live forever there. No, no, that is not possible.

So, a little duration of life increase, what do you gain by that? Are the trees are not living for many, many years? Taravaḥ kim na jivanti [SB 2.3.18]. In your country I have seen in San Francisco, there is a wood, there is a tree 7,000 years old. But what is the benefit? If you stand up in a place for 7,000 years and if you are proud of your living 7,000 years is that a very great credit? Standing up?

So Krsna says all these things are nonsense.

You like to come back again, it is a great story. How one goes to the moon planet, how again comes back. These are all stated in the Vedic literature. It is not a very new thing. But what is our aim? Our aim is different. We are not going to waste our valuable time, Krsna says that don't waste your time by these attempts. That you will go to this planet, to that planet, to that planet, to that planet. What you will gain? Your material miseries will follow you wherever you go. Therefore, in the Caitanya-caritamrta it is very nicely said by the author:

The purport of this verse is: in this material world somebody is enjoying, not enjoying everybody is suffering. But something we take it, it is enjoyment and something we take it as suffering. Actually, it is suffering. Who is there within this material world who does not suffer in disease? Who is there within this material world who does not suffer from old age? Who is there within this material world who does not die? And who wants to die?

Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to die, and everybody dies then where is this enjoyment? Nobody wants to grow old and everybody becomes old then where is the enjoyment? Nobody wants to suffer from disease and everybody suffers from disease then where is the enjoyment? So, this is all nonsense. Within this material world there is no enjoyment. It is simply our concoction. This is enjoyment this is suffering. Everything is suffering.

Therefore, the Caitanya-caritamrta says visaya-bhoga. Visaya means-what is that visaya? Visaya means the four things, eating sleeping mating and defending. So keha pape, keha punye, pape means-these four things will be there, but they may be third-grade. Just like taking for accepted you Americans you have got this country, you have got this body, American body by pious activities. Because you're materially prosperous and say in India they are poverty stricken.

Because I say wherever I go they say the state of India is poverty stricken. Actually, it is at the present moment so. So, it may be that they are suffering but the four things. Eating, you may be eating very nice things, butter bread and so many things and they might be eating without butter. But eating is there. It is not that because one is poverty stricken the wholesale men has died for want of food. No. Not even birds and beasts [aside]. not like this. Sit down.

So, this visaya-bhoga they. I mean to say, participating the four principles of bodily demands. Namely, eating sleeping mating and defending. That can be had in any circumstances even if you are born in impious condition, or you are born in pious condition. But the problem is how to get out of these four principles of life, namely birth death old age and disease. That is real problem. This is not real problem, what shall I eat? The birds and beasts they have no problem. In the morning they immediately chirping kzb, kzb, kzb. They have no problem. They know that we shall have our food. The cats and dogs also know they are confident they will get some food.

So, nobody is dying, that's a mistake. That over population, this and that. Everybody has got by God's arrangement, everyone has got food. But the quality may be different, that's all. But that quality of material enjoyment is not the end of life. The real problem is how to get out of this problems of life, birth death old age and disease. That cannot be solved by simply wasting time within this universe, this way or that way. Even if you go to the highest planet, these problems cannot be solved. Because there is also death although in the Brahmaloka the duration. In the moon planet so far, we have got information.

They live for 10,000 years and their one day is equal to our six months. So just imagine, that means 10,000 multiplied by 150. That is the duration of life in the moon planet. I do not know whether people from here will go to moon planet and live for so many days. That is not possible. Then the whole Vedic literature will be false. You can attain to go there make a farce, but it is not possible to live there. That is not possible.

So, this knowledge we have got read it from the Vedic scriptures. Therefore, we are not very much concerned to go to this planet or that planet. We are concerned to go directly to the planet where Krsna is. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, what is that?

You can go to moon planet or sun planet. You can go even to sun planet, there are many millions and trillions of planets. That you can go, yanti deva-vrata devan. Similarly, there are Pitrlokas planets, there also you can go. And if you want you can remain, bhūtejyaḥ. If you become material. Too much materialistic you can remain here. But mat yajinaḥ, those who are devotees of mine they come to me. So, we are aiming to that point.

So, this initiation is not a farce, this initiation means to initiate a person so that ultimately, he can go to that supreme planet Krsnaloka, Vrndavana. We are not sitting idly, we are also attempting to go to other planets. But that is not simply wasting time. This attempt will not be fruitful. Just attempt to go to Krsna, fortunately at coincidence we have published one article in our "Back to Godhead".

[aside:] Where is that?

[Back to Godhead Magazine no. 26, October 1969]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. Here is an article you can read. The name is.

[aside:] What is the name?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. Here is an article it is, "Beyond The Universe." This article you will find, it is just fortunate that during this moment this article is also published, "Beyond This Universe."

There is place beyond this universe, that information you get from the Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gita is very popular book, since a very long time. And there are so many publications of Bhagavad-gita in your country.

And imported also from India and you have also published but all these nonsenses they do not know what is beyond this universe. All these rascals they never preached, and they come here to preach Bhagavad-gita. I say rascals because they did not give the real information. Simply bluff, therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Try to read it.

You'll find that information.

There is another nature, just like you see this nature. Nature you understand. This cosmic manifestation is called nature-sva-bhava. But there is another nature, para-that is superior. Bhavanya, sva-bhava another nature, anya, but that is different. How it is different? 'Vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanaḥ these manifested cosmic manifestation's.

This is one status and beyond this there is covering of the universe. That is non-manifested. So, beyond this manifested and non-manifested existence of this universe there is another nature. And what is that nature? Sanatanaḥ-eternal. And this nature, what is this nature? 'vyakto 'vyaktat pranasyati, bhūtva bhūtvapranasyati. Oh vinasyati.

This material nature, you can understand this is common sense. Anything manifested here it will finish. Take for your example, this body. Suppose you are 30 years old, 30 years before your body was not manifested and say for another 50, or 50 years it will be again non-manifested. That is a fact. Bhūtva bhūtva praliyate [Bg 8.19]. It is manifested and again it is annihilated. Dissolved. Sagara lahari samaja, just like the waves in the sea they are coming, very big waves, high. Immediately within a second-finished.

So, they do not study, they are simply concerned with this bubble life which is. Which will be finished at any moment. So, as it is your body it is manifested, and it will be finished at any day. Similarly, the whole universe, this is also a gigantic material body and it will be finished. And when it will be finished, where is your moon planet and this planet or that planet? All finished.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupada: Why should you waste your time to go to such planet where everything will be finished. Try to go to Krsnaloka.

This is science. Try to understand. You understand yourself and preach this message throughout the whole world. They are in the darkness. They have no knowledge. Although they are very much proud. This is not advancement of knowledge. That you go after 10 years endeavor to go to the moon planet and touch it and come back and become very proud, "Oh I have touched!" And what is that? You have touched, what you have gained? But they are proud simply by touching, that's all. Live there, and if you live, how long you will live? It will be all finished. Try to find out that planet:

Where going no more coming back. You get eternal life and dance with Krsna.

Devotees: Jaya. Hare Krishna.

Prabhupada: This is the initiation. So, this. Don't take this initiation tritely. This initiation is giving you chance to reach the Krsna and live there eternally and dance with.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Krsna. Jaya. Srila Prabhupada. [devotees offer obeisances] [break]

Prabhupada: What is that? Acamana. [indistinct]. This is my drinking water but another water.

Devotee: Shall I light the candle Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes... So, try to follow the rules and regulation be strict too. Then your. tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg 4.9]. After this body. With this body wherever you go you will simply touch and come back, that's all. Oh, you cannot live and even if you live how long will you live? What is 10,000 years? In comparison to the time eternal. First thing you cannot live, neither you can go, and even if you live and if you can go. It is not that you are going to get eternal. But our concern is how to get eternal life and dance with Krsna, that's all.... Where is that water? Why you forget?

Tamal Krsna: He didn't. He is bringing it now.

Prabhupada: Keep it down... Just see how I am doing.

[Tinkling sound of acamana cup] one, two, three. [Sipping sound] four. Do like that.

[Srila Prabhupada and devotees chanting maha-mantra].

Very good... Now chant.

[Srila Prabhupada chants the following with the devotees repeating responsively].

[Srila Prabhupada and devotees chanting maha-mantra]. [break]

Silavati?... You can divide into two and put the two pillars of the throne for Krsna, yes...

Don't put it on the floor. [end]