Bhagavad-gītā 2.12 – August 18, 1973, London

What Abortionists Don't Know

Pradyumna: [leads chanting of verse] [devotees repeat]

[break]

Prabhupada: So you can dictate to correct.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Go on. Word meaning.

Pradyumna: [leads chanting of synonyms]

na-never; tu-but; eva-certainly; aham-I; jatu-any time;

Prabhupada: [interrupting synonyms] Now the word, it is not correct. Jatu, "become," this is incorrect, so you correct it. Jatu means "at any time."

Pradyumna: [continues leading chanting of synonyms]

na-never; asam-existed; na-it is not so; tvam-yourself; na-not; ime-all these; janadhipah-kings; na-never; ca-also; eva-certainly; na-not like that; bhavisyamah-shall exist; sarve-all of us; vayam-we; atah param-hereafter.

[01:57]

Translation: "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

Prabhupada: This is very important verse. The modern scientist, philosophers, they say that after finishing this body, we no more exist. Finished, everything finished. This is not new. In olden times also there were atheists like Carvaka Muni, he also said like that: bhasmi-bhutasya dehasya kutah punar agamano bhavet: "Now why you are worrying about next life? As soon as this body is burned into ashes, everything is finished."

According to Vedic funeral ritualistic ceremony, the body is burned. There are three end of the body-either to become stool or to become ashes or to become earth. Those who are burying the body, just like the Christian, Muhammadans do, the body becomes earth. Everything, from the earth it has come up: "Dust thou were, dust thou beist." This beautiful body, nice body, will become earth. And those who are burning, so their body will become ashes. And those who throw the body to be eaten by jackals and crows, they become stool. This is the end of the body.

We are taking so much care of this body, but the ultimate end of this body is either stool, earth or ashes. So foolish persons who are in the bodily concept of life, they are thinking, "After all, this body will be finished. So, so long the body is there, senses are there, let us enjoy. Why so much restrictions-no illicit sex, no gambling, no...? These are all nonsense. Let us enjoy life." This is atheistic life. Foolish life. They do not know.

So the body is not all. This is the first lesson to understand, what is spiritual life, what is spiritual knowledge. But all rascals, they do not know. Therefore Krsna first of all slapped Arjuna: asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg 2.11]. "You do not know what is the fact, and talking like a very learned man. Just try to understand what is truth." Na tv evaham jatu. First thing is that nasam; we have no nasam. We never die. That will be explained later on more clearly. We do not die, nasam, at any time. It is not that sometimes we die and sometimes... No. Any time, jatu. At any time.

So: "Sir, You are Supreme Personality of Godhead, You may not die. But we die, we are ordinary living entities." So Krsna says, nasam, na tvam, na..., na aham, na tu eva aham jatu nasam na tvam: "Neither you nor I. We never die." "So it may be I am Your friend and You are Krsna. Therefore the others will die." No. Neme janadhipah: "Neither these, all these people, all these soldiers, the kings who have assembled here, they'll also not. There is no end. They'll never die."

So, na caiva na bhavisyamah: "It is not that we did not exist in the past, and we are existing at present. That is everyone knows. So in the future, don't think that we may not exist." Na bhavisyamah. "It is not that we shall not exist in the future." Na bhavisyamah, not exist, and another not. Two nots makes one yes. Two negative makes one positive. So therefore, we have two negatives: na caiva na bhavisyamah. Na bhavisyamah means not to exist in the future; that is not. That means we shall exist. Na caiva na bhavisyamah sarve, all of us. All of us, you... Not that "Because I am God, because you are My friend, God's friend, and all others..." No, everyone. This is knowledge. In the Katha Upanisad there is the verse nityo nityanam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13]. Nityo nityanam. Nityanam means ever-existing. Nitya means ever, always.

So either Krsna or we, every one of us are ever-existing, because we are part and parcel of Krsna. Therefore, if Krsna is ever-existing, so we are also ever-existing. A particle of gold is gold, qualitatively. The value of gold mine and the gold earring may be different. Gold earring may be, say, hundred dollars, but a gold mine, millions of dollars. But both of them are gold, not that it is iron, therefore less value. No. Small quantity. Krsna is the Supreme Spirit, person. He is all-pervading. Everywhere He is present, He is so expansive. We are simply... We are also all-pervading, but within this body. That's all. Krsna is all-pervading means throughout the whole creation Krsna all-pervading. And we are also all-pervading only in this body. You are all-pervading within your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body; you know the pains and pleasure of your body. So all-pervading means within this body. If I pinch anywhere, I'll feel pain, but you will not feel pain. If I pinch my body, I will feel pain; you will not feel pain. Therefore you are not all-pervading, I am not all-pervading.

But Krsna is all-pervading. When I feel pain, Krsna knows it. Vedaham samatitani [Bg 7.26]: "I know everything." That is Krsna. Try to understand distinction between Krsna and us. He's all-pervading, but He's nitya, ever-existing. We are also ever-existing. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13].

We have got knowledge, Krsna has got knowledge. But we have got limited knowledge. Krsna has got unlimited knowledge. That is the difference. Krsna is also cognizant. He's also acknowledged. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. Then where is the difference between Krsna and us? Yes, there is difference. What is that? That Krsna, singular number, nityo nityanam-nityanam, this is plural number-cetanas cetananam. Cetananam, this plural number. So there is one person, singular number; others, they are plural number, we jivas. Anantyaya kalpate.

Jivas, that is described, the dimension of the jiva. I have several times explained, kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9]. First of all, divide the tip of the hair into hundred parts. Then take one of the parts, one hundredth part, again divide into hundred parts. That small, less than atom, that is the magnitude of the jiva. And they are anantyaya kalpate. There is no limit. There is no limit how many living entities are there. If you search out, after passing stool, if you search out stool, you'll find millions of living entities, germs. Even from the hole of your room, there is small hole, and there are ants, hundreds and thousands will come out.

So similarly, within the hole, within the earth, within the air, within the fire even, there are germs and worms in the fire. These rascals, they do not know. They simply think... Because nitya, nitya means ever-existing. So in the fire the living entity does not die. They sterilize: "Now it is sterilized." That is all nonsense. Sterilized means the body is killed, but not this... There is abortion: the body is killed. Contraception: the body is killed. But the soul, he's not killed. If you make some inconvenience to the soul who has taken shelter in the womb, and you kill the body, then he'll have to search out another body. This is going on.

Just see how much rascal civilization is going on. They're thinking they're killing-this way killed, that way killed. No. You..., it is sinful, because you create inconvenience to that particular soul. He was taking shelter, karmana daiva-netrena dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. By his karma he has been given shelter to develop a body, and if you kill that body, that means you go against the order of the Supreme, daiva-netrena. Suppose you are destined to occupy some room, and somebody does not allow you to enter that room, is it not criminal? It is criminal, unlawful detention, unlawful... It is unlawful, even in the state. Similarly, a living entity is developing one body, and if you kill that, you become immediately criminal, punishable.

And the living entity who is checked to develop the body, he's put into inconvenience, he's also sinful. He's also sinful. Therefore it may be simply he's wandering from one womb to another, one womb to another, one womb to another, because he committed that sinful activity, abortion. Now the man who causes this abortion, he also being punished, that "You'll never see the light of this world. You'll simply have to live one womb to another, one womb to another. Go on." So nature's punishment is like that. But these foolish people, they do not know.

Nityo nityanam. So every living entity is nitya, as Krsna is nitya. He is singular number; we are plural number. That is the difference. We are many; Krsna is one. There cannot be many Krsna, but there are many living entities. So what is the difference between the singular number? That is also stated here: eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13]. This one singular number is supplying all the necessities of this plural number. Is it not fact? We are very much disturbed overpopulation. That is all nonsense. Krsna is quite able, if there is overpopulation... There cannot be overpopulation, because there are already ananta living entities, what to speaking of overpopulation? It is already there; you cannot count. There is no question of...

There are already overpopulation. And they can be provided by Krsna. Eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. Krsna is not limited; He is also unlimited. He can provide unlimited living entities. There is no scarcity of food. So this theory that overpopulation is nonsense. It is also nonsense. There cannot be overpopulation. But there is restriction, by nature. Nature will restrict production of food if there are demons. Nature will not provide the demons.

You'll find in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Fourth Canto, nature is quite prepared to supply all the foods, but as soon as there are number of demons... Because the whole plan is to correct. Just like the criminals are sent to the prison house for being corrected so that they may not again commit criminals. That is the purpose of... Similarly, we are all criminals who are in this material world. The purpose is to be corrected. We wanted to imitate Krsna, to become Krsna, and therefore we violated the orders of Krsna, and that criminality means material life.

This is maya, this material world, maya. This body is false, maya. So we have to accept this body because we wanted to enjoy. So enjoy. You enjoy with this body, particular body. Either human's body, or dog's body, or cat's body, or demigod's body, you get as you desire. You get a material body and enjoy. This is material life.

So Krsna also... Although in the material life Krsna is providing all necessities of life. Duly, there is seasonal changes. You get seasonal fruits, flowers, grains, and all necessities. You'll be still given chance, especially for the human being, that you get all supplies, necessities. Eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13]. All necessities. But again you revive your consciousness, Krsna consciousness. That is the plan. But if you do not revive your Krsna consciousness, if you simply enjoy the senses, then there will be restriction of supply. This is the law. That is restriction of supply. Therefore there will be no rain. And if there is no rain, what factory will do, you rascal? You can manufacture scissors and knives and buckets of plastic, but you cannot prepare rice and wheat. That is not possible, sir. That will depend on rain. So immediately rains will be restricted. Now you all chew all these kankar. What is this kankar? These stone particles?

Devotee: Pebbles?

Prabhupada: What are called these? In Hindi, it is called kankar [gravel], Indian.

Revatinandana: Pebbles?

Prabhupada: Pebbles, big.... Small. Sand, sand. Yes. So you can eat that. When there is no rain... That is also eatable. The peacocks, they eat. The pigeons, they eat. Yes, the..., they can eat. You have seen? They're eating. So everything is there eatable. So there is no question of overpopulation. Overpopulation is already there, anantyaya kalpate. They why do you call overpopulation? When there is already fire, why do you say there will be fire? It is already there.

So... But the restriction, eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. That eka, that eka, Krsna, He orders. He does not order actually. Just like not every time the police has to be ordered by the superior authority to punish the criminal. They know how to punish. Similarly, the nature knows how to punish these criminals. Therefore, the scientists are finding now shortage of petrol, shortage of this, shortage... "What to do? What to do?" This is the position. Otherwise, there is no question of overpopulation. The supply is restricted. That is the problem. Eko yo bahunam.

Because He supplies all the necessities, the supply will be restricted. As we become more and more sinful and without Krsna consciousness, they..., they will be put into difficulties, they will be dying within the womb, they will be killed within the womb, there will be war, there will be pestilence, there will be famine, there will be earthquake. In so many ways we have to die, again, take birth. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg 8.19], this business will go on. And ultimately, when the whole universe is annihilated, then again we take shelter in the body of Maha-Visnu and live for, in that way, without any body, for many millions of years. Again there is creation, and then again given chance: "All right, take another chance. Be Krsna conscious."

So this is material creation. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg 8.19]. As we have got this body, we have got this chance not to become Krsna conscious, and if we miss, then I do not know where I am going next life. But I am not going to die, that's a fact. That will be explained in the next verse. I am not going to die. So we existed in the past, we are now existing at present, and we shall continue to exist in the future. This is the philosophy[?]. But how we shall exist-what kind of body, either demigod's body or dog's body or tree's body or fish's body-that will depend on my work. Or we go back to home, back to Godhead, Krsna, like... We get the spiritual body like Krsna. Everything is possible.

So it is our business to see what kind of body we shall get next life. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg 4.9]. Actually if we become Krsna conscious, then after giving up this body we are no more going to accept any material body. Because spiritual body is already there. That is eternal. The spirit soul, the spiritual body, that is never vanquished. It was existing in the past, it is existing now, and it will continue to exist in the future. Because people may say, "How is that? How odd thing Krsna is speaking, that na tv evaham jatu nasam na tvam neme janadhipah [Bg 2.12].

Because actually, we died. Maybe we have taken birth again, but everyone dies. How that, that we do not die?" No. It is not the body, but Krsna is speaking about the soul. Soul is ever-existing. It existed in the past, it is existing now, and it will exist. Maybe different type of body. That is Krsna's instruction.

The another thing is here, the Mayavadi philosopher says that we are one. There is no "you" and "me." Everything one. So, then Krsna is defective. If Krsna says, "You, Me, all others," so it is not one. It is not homogeneous. We are all individuals. "You are individual, I am individual, and all the kings and soldiers, they are all individuals." So the Mayavadi theory that after liberation everyone becomes one, one lump sum... What is called? Homogeneous spirit. No. Then Krsna is false. The Mayavadi theory accepted, that we become one lump sum, then Krsna's theory-not theory; Krsna's actual knowledge-then it becomes false. And if Krsna speaks false, something defective, then where is the use of reading Bhagavad-gita?

Why should we read Bhagavad-gita, which is spoken by a person who is defective? No. That's not... What Krsna is speaking, that is fact. That is fact. Otherwise, why Bhagavad-gita is given so importance? So, so Mayavadi philosophers, they try to interpret in a different way, " 'I' means this, 'you' means that," some... [break] Mayavadi liberation means that after being liberated, we mix, we mix. You can mix also. Just like the sunshine, sunshine, this brilliant sunshine is combination of bright particles. That is scientific. Similarly, brahma-jyoti, brahma-jyoti, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti.

First brahma-jyoti then localised then personal these are the process of self realization. So in the brahma-jyoti because we are individual souls we cannot stay, brahma-jyoti cannot stay they have to come back again. Because each and every individual soul is part and parcel of Krsna therefore he is seeking ananda, anandamayo 'bhyasat. Ananda means blissfulness, so because he is part and parcel of Krsna he is very much fond of living with many. Just like he is with cowherd's boy, his gopis, his Queens in so many ways he never lives alone.

You will never find that Krsna is alone, that is Krsna. So we are part and parcel of Krsna, how we can live alone. Therefore we require societies, society friendship and love divinely bestowed upon man, these things are there. We require society we cannot live alone without any activity, take a child if you stop him to play and if you ask him, sit down, he will be mad because nature is that he wants to work on to enjoy. Therefore as soon as there are many children, yesterday we saw them playing, that is the nature.

So this monoism to become one with the Brahman effulgence, that will not stay, they will feel inconvenient and because they have no information of the planets of Goloka Vrndavana or Vaikuntha planets they do not know so to enjoy life they again come back, patanty adhah. [SB 11.5.3] These are the statement of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah, this Mayavadi philosophers, vimukta-maninah, "Now, I am now become liberated now I am one with the Supreme," that is vimukta-maninah where they are thinking like that as a rascal. Actually it cannot be mixed up everyone is individual but they are thinking therefore this word is used vimukta-maninah, maninah means falsely thinking.

Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninah, tvayy asta-bhavat, why they are thinking? Because they're not devotee they do not think that there is another God worshipable, we are all God now we are mixed up. That is monism. So these Mayavadis when they think that, among the Mayavadis sannyasi they address is, namo narayana that means that everyone is seeing that I have already become Narayana. Although they are begging in the street, therefore still they are thinking that each of them has become Narayana and our Vivekananda Swami he thought actually you are Narayana why you are begging therefore he give a new name daridra-narayana, poor Narayana. If you say a poor Narayana then there is another rich Narayana so there will be duality, how you support your monism?

As soon as you say daridra-narayana so there is rich Narayana also so there immediately it becomes dualism, dvaita-vada. So there are so many defects in their philosophy, therefore Bhagawat says that vimukta-maninah falsely thinking that they have become liberated. Why? Tvayy asta-bhavat, because they have no information of Your lotus feet. So what is the result, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah, they undergo severe penances and austerities. Actually Mayavadi sannyasis they observe, they do not use any bed, they lie down, that is the stricture of the Saṅkara-sampradaya sannyasa, simply on the floor, three times must take bath, so many strict regulations and actually they, some of them follow but what you are following? You are given so much leniency, so aruhya krcchrena, after undergoing so severe austerities of life they approach that they mix or they approach the impersonal effulgence. Just like if you, that sputnik [indistinct] but what is that sputnik, you are living on the sky and soon as you are tired again come back, as soon as you are tired. Otherwise why they are coming back, ..ptptptpt.. go round, back so long you do not get a shelter you have to come back. Similarly this Mayavadis they mix with the effulgence Krsna's brahma-jyoti but because there is no... There is only existence but there is no blissfulness of life, so simply existence will not... Suppose if I live for thousands of years but I have no society is that very good condition of life? No. Suppose somebody gives me blessing that you will live for thousands of years, but no competition, shall I accept it? Eh?

That's not possible therefore even though this Mayavadis they approach, they approach actually, aruhya krcchrena param padam, param padam means the impersonal brahma-jyoti. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah, again falls. So why they fall down? Now, anadrta-yusmad-aṅghrayah, because they have neglected Your lotus feet, neglected. They do not know that there is Vaikuntha loka there is Goloka Vrndavana there is Krsna there is service of Krsna. These things are unknown to them on account of this they fall down. So the sayujya-mukti to become one with the effulgence is a false theory or even if you mix for some time because there is simply eternity but we are being part and parcel of Krsna we are also possessed the three transcendental qualities, sac-cid-ananda as Krsna is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha.

We are spiritually also sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, but not exactly like Krsna therefore our sat eternity sometimes becomes disturbed by falling down in this material world, but we are seeking ananda pleasure in this material body, we are never happy. This is the distinction between Vaisnava philosophy, so don't try to become victims of Mayavadi philosophy. Stick to Krsna consciousness and go back home back to Godhead and dance with Him. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

Devotees: Jaya. [end]