Bhagavad-gītā 16.9 – February 5, 1975, Honolulu

The Demonic-No Sense of God

Prabhupada: Yes. Go on.

Nitai: [leads chanting of verse, etc.] [devotees repeat]

"Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."

These demons-further description. Yesterday we discussed that "The world is untruth. This material world is untruth," asatyam apratistham, "and there is no background." This is the conclusion of the atheist demons. We have explained that this world is not untrue. That is our Vaisnava philosophy. Untruth... If it is coming from the truth, it is true. How you can say untrue? The example: if cotton is truth, then thread is true. So if you say that thread is untruth, then cotton is also untruth, the cause. But they do not accept...

[aside:] This child... Some sound is coming.

Hamsadūta: Please take the children outside.

Prabhupada: So on the basis of this vision, that "There is no God. There is no background of this material creation. This material creation is false..." There are so many other conclusions of the demonic people. Demon and atheist, the same thing. So Krsna says, on this blind vision, etam drstim avastabhya. Accepting these are the basic principle of this material creation, etam drstim avastabhya, nasta atmanaḥ-lost their spiritual consciousness. Nasta means lost. Atmanaḥ means the soul, the Supersoul. So atma, Paramatma. The Supersoul is Paramatma, and we are soul. So they have no knowledge.

The defect of the modern civilization... The demons and the raksasas, they're existing always. As I have told you, two classes of men are always there. But in this age the number of atheist class, or demons, are very much increased. Otherwise, material world means for the demons, atheistic class. Just like the prison house. The prison house means it is meant for the criminals. One may be a first-class prisoner, one may be a third-class prisoner, but it is prison house. Similarly, anyone who is in this material world-never mind whether he is Lord Brahma or the insignificant ant-they are more or less all criminals. Criminal means disobeying, disobeying the Lord or His order. They are materially criminal.

Therefore Krsna, the Supreme Lord, comes at times, at interval, when many, many millions of years have turned. He has got a schedule to come upon this planet. And when He comes, He comes there in Vrndavana, Mathura-Vrndavana. That is His headquarter within this universe. Therefore Mathura-Vrndavana is so important.

[aside:] You can open this. Yes. [window opens]

Dhama. Just like the governor. Governor has got his own house, government house. At the same time, when he goes on tour he has got a particular place called the circuit house. He stays there. Similarly, the whole creation is Krsna's property. Krsna said,

We are missing that point. Krsna said, God said, the clear idea, that "I am the enjoyer, bhokta." Bhokta means enjoyer. "I am the enjoyer." Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam. Yajna. Yajna means satisfying the Lord. This is called yajna. Just like we are chanting this Hare Krsna mantra. It is yajna, sacrifice. At least we are sacrificing little time. Kali-yuga, nobody is prepared to sacrifice. Especially when there is question of sacrificing for God, nobody's interested. So this, because they'll not sacrifice, they will enjoy themself, forgetting the supreme enjoyer. Just like a servant: if he cooks and enjoys himself without offering to the master, then what is his position? That is sinful position. Similarly anyone, the demons, they have no sense of God. They do not like to offer. They want to eat anything nonsense, like hogs and dogs, and... That is demonic life.

Ye pacanty atma-karanat. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find. Read Bhagavad-gita very carefully. Bhunjate te tv agham papa ye pacanty atma-karanat [Bg 3.13]: "Those who are eating and cooking for themselves, for satisfying the taste, such persons are eating the resultant action of sinful acts." They are all sinful. They are, who are cooking for themself without offering to the proprietor, to the master, they're all sinful. Therefore our program is to eat krsna-prasadam, the foodstuff, remnants of foodstuff, left by Krsna. Krsna is very kind. If you offer something to Krsna, He eats the offering. It is not that He's not eating. He is eating, but at the same time keeping it for you as it was offered. He's not like us. If you give me something to eat, I'll finish the whole plate. Krsna is not like that. [laughter] Krsna... The atheist will say that He has not eaten. No, He has eaten. And that is Krsna.

That is stated in the Vedas, pūrnasya pūrnam adaya pūrnam evavasisyate . Krsna, expanding Himself into millions, still, He remains a Krsna, the same Krsna. It is not that material thing. If you take a material thing, anything, if you divide it into millions portion, then original form is finished. There is no more. You take a piece of paper and cut it into pieces and throw it all over, then the original paper is lost. There is no more. That is material. But Krsna... Krsna, He is expanded. Eko bahu syam. The Lord said, "I shall become many." Many; still He is there. Is not because He has become many, therefore His original person is finished. No. That is the injunction in the Vedas: pūrnasya pūrnam adaya pūrnam eva avasisyate . He remains still pūrna. One minus thousand times one is still one. That is absolute. Absolute Truth means the truth never diminishes or never becomes relative or conditional. That is Absolute Truth.

So in the absolute platform, in the spiritual world, Krsna is the supreme whole spirit. Therefore He may expand Himself... Advaita acyuta anadi ananta-rūpam [Bs 5.33]. Ananta-rūpam, various kinds of forms. Everything is Krsna's forms. Your form is also Krsna's form; my form is also Krsna's form. Therefore foolish rascals, they think, "Now I have become God." He has got the affinity that he is also God expansion; therefore sometimes he thinks that "I am God." This is... We are also expansion of God, vibhinnamsa. There are two kinds of expansions: svamsa, vibhinnamsa. When Krsna expands in fullness, that is called svamsa, visnu-tattva. Just like Krsna has expanded Himself as Visnu, Narayana, Vasudeva, Sahkarsana, Aniruddha, so many, millions. There is no limit. That is called svamsa. And Krsna expands as His energy-this material energy, this material world, the spiritual world, spiritual energy, and we are also energy, marginal energy, tatastha. Tatastha means, marginal means... You can have a conception of marginal in the sea beach. The same place, walking, is sometimes covered with water and sometimes it is land. This is called marginal: between the water and the land. So we living entities, we are marginal. Sometimes we are under the protection of the spiritual energy, and sometimes we are under the protection of the material energy. We are under protection; we are not independent.

Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritaḥ [Bg 9.13]. So mahatmas... Mahatmas means those who have realized God, not this politician mahatma. No. Mahatma means... Mahatmas' description is there in the Bhagavad-gita, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritaḥ: "They are under the spiritual energy." They are not under the material energy. They are not mahatma; they are demons. So we are describing about the demons. Under the spiritual energy, one can understand his position, his relationship with God. Therefore it is said, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritaḥ. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso jnatva mam, avyayam. Their business is bhajana. Bhajana means bhakti. Bhaja-dhatu. From bhajana, bhakti, and bhajana, bhakti, bhaj-dhatu. Bhaja sevanam. Bhaj-dhatu means offering service, rendering service. So bhakti, bhajana, bhakta, bhagavata-they are coming from the same root, bhaja-dhatu, Sanskrit, those who know Sanskrit.

So this is the sign of mahatma. Bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ: "Without any deviation, without any other occupation, they are always engaged in devotional service." This is mahatma. Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ. There are many, so many bogus mahatmas-the svamis, yogis and incarnation and so many rascals-all raksasas, atheist. Such kind are not mahatma. Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ. That mahatma, who is actually mahatma, means bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ, engaged fully in Krsna consciousness. That is ma... Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ. Sudurlabhaḥ means very, very rare to find out. The rascals posing themselves as mahatma, that is another thing. That is not authorized.

You have to accept anything from the authorized source. So according to Vedic civilization, all knowledge is received from the Vedas, perfect authorized source. Sruti-pramana, evidence from the sruti, from the Vedas, that is perfect. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, if you want to establish something you have to quote the section or the injunction from the Vedas. Then it is perfect. In learned circle you cannot say anything hodgepodge. That will not be accepted. If you support your statement from the evidence of the Vedas, then you are accepted as authority. Therefore our principle is... Not only our; this is the Vedic principle. You'll find Caitanya Mahaprabhu giving instruction to Sanatana Gosvami, to Rūpa Gosvami, or He was talking with Ramananda Raya-in Caitanya-caritamrta you'll find-and quoting support from the Vedas. Although Caitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself, Krsna, Krsna-Caitanya, but He is not, what is called, autocratic or, what is called, dictator. No. You'll never find Him. Whatever He'll say, immediately He is supported by Vedic evidence. He can say anything. He can manufacture anything. No, that He does not do. He does not violate the principle.

In the Bhagavad-gita also... Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's also quoting from Vedas. He does not say, "I say." He says, but He says on the Vedic authority. He doesn't say anything superfluous. No. Brahma-sūtra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaiḥ [Bg 13.5]. He said,

He says sastra, evidence, Vedic evidence, must be accepted. The Vedic evidence is very chronologized in the Vedanta-sūtra. He especially mentioned brahma-sūtra-padaiḥ. Brahma-sūtra means Vedanta-sūtra. Vedanta-sūtra means the summary of all Vedic knowledge. The Vedic knowledge is given in codes. That is called Brahma-sūtra. Sūtra means code, and Brahman means the Supreme Absolute Truth. Understanding of the Absolute Truth in code words, and the explanation.

A code word requires explanation. Just like in business circle there is Bentley's code. So for business facility, for saving expenditure, the telegraphic codes are there. So one who does not know what is this code, but he can refer to the book. The explanation is there: "This code means this wording." Similarly, Brahma-sūtra means the whole Vedic knowledge is given in codes. Brahma-sūtra-padais caiva hetumadbhiḥ. It is called nyaya-prasthana. Nyaya-prasthana... Nyaya means logic. Nyaya means... There are three kinds of authorities: sruti-prasthana, smrti-prasthana and nyaya-prasthana. So the Brahma-sūtra is nyaya-prasthana, very logically, very logically given.

Just like in the first code in the Brahma-sūtra is athato brahma-jijnasa. Brahma-jijnasa: to inquire about the Absolute. The jijnasa means inquiry. In the cats' and dogs' life the inquiry is, "Where is food? Where is shelter? Where is sex?" and "Where is defense?" only these four inquiries. The cats and dogs, they are busy, "Where is food? Find out some food." The pig is finding out, "Where is stool? Where is stool?" Here I do not know whether you have got experience. In our country, in the villages, there are so many pigs loitering. They are simply finding out where is stool. In the village the children, they pass stool here and there, and the men, they go to the field and pass, evacuate. So the all these pigs are always loitering there. So they're seeking. The inquiry is for stool. They may take it as food, but after all, it is stool. So according to the body, the different foods are there. That is also described: sattvika-ahara, rajasika-ahara, tamasika-ahara. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita.

So in the animal life they are after seeking where is food. Then, as soon as the body is strong, then "Where is sex? Find out the opposite sex." You'll find in the hogs' life very prominent, all these things. For sex they have no discrimination whether it is mother or sister or anyone. You'll find that. These are... We have to take lessons from nature's study. The hog is sometimes trying to drink the milk from the breast of the mother and sometimes trying to have sex. You'll find it. This is hog life. This is dog life: no sex discrimination, no food discrimination, no shelter discrimination, no defense discrimination. But all these things-"Discrimination, the best part of valor"-that is in human civilization. Therefore the Vedanta-sūtra said, athato brahma-jijnasa: "Now... In your previous lives as cats and dogs and hogs, you simply were busy for inquiring, 'Where is stool?' 'Where is food?' 'Where is sex?' 'Where is this?' 'Where is that?' Now, because you have got human body, better consciousness, advanced consciousness, discrimination, now you inquire about Brahman." This is Vedanta, beginning.

So therefore human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth, God, the background of everything. Immediately answer is there: "The Brahman means janmady asya yataḥ, the origin of everything." That is Brahman: origin of everything. There must be something origin. That is consciousness. Not that asatyam: "There is no origin." What is the nonsense? This is not human consciousness. This is animal consciousness, "There is no origin." There must be origin. I am... Because my origin is the father, my father, cause. I am born by my father. Common sense. Then his father, then his father, his father, go on, go on, go on... Although you do not know, but this is a fact that father is born by his father, and his father is born by his father. How can you deny it? He may not know the grandfather, great-grandfather or more than that, but there must have been some person. Similarly, we may be foolish-we do not know; we cannot understand who is the original father-but there must have been the original father. That is God. That is God. Where is the deficiency to understand this father..., fact?

Therefore, accepted. God is accepted as the original father. The Christian, they go to the original father: "O Father, O God, give us our daily bread." So we also accept. That is the godly conception. That is the beginning of religious conception. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. What is dharma, religion? It is the codes given by God. That is dharma. Just like the state, the government, gives law: "You have to do like this. Keep to the right," you have to keep your car to the right. This is law. You cannot say, "Why not to the left?" You cannot say. Then you are criminal. Similarly, there are codes and description in the sastra what God wants. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita God says that bhoktaram yajna-tapasam [Bg 5.29]: "I am the enjoyer of all sacrifices, all tapasya." You are engaged in some research work, tapasya, for what purpose? Now, finding out some deadly bomb. A very big scholar, very big research student... So that is called asura. He has got some scientific knowledge, but he's busy to find out a nuclear weapon, how to kill other enemies. This is the research work. No. That is demonic.

The same knowledge can be utilized for finding out God. That is mahatma. This is the difference. You may have some particular knowledge. Suppose you are expert singer. Very good. But if you earn your money for fulfilling your sense desires, that is demonic. But you know the art, how to sing. If you very melodiously sing Hare Krsna mantra, then you are demigod. The same thing can be utilized both ways. Anything. Therefore sastra says, idam hi pumsas tapasaḥ srutasya va [SB 1.5.22]. People are advancing by research and by education. Srutasya. Srutasya means education, and tapasaḥ... And to become very learned scholar, scientist, it requires tapasya, austerities, penance. It is not that all of a sudden one becomes very great scientist. After many, many research work. Therefore it is called tapasaḥ. Idam hi pumsas tapasaḥ srutasya va sv-istasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ [SB 1.5.22]. People do very pious activities, charity, munificence. Now, what is the purpose? What is the purpose of becoming educated, learned scholar, very charitable and all these pious activities? What is the end? Ask them. Somebody will say, those who believe next life-that is also fact-that "Next life also I will get opulence, properly situated." That is also fact.

But we Vaisnava philosopher, Krishnites, we do not think in that terms. Suppose in next life I become some demigod like Lord Brahma or the Moon or the Sun. They are all demigods. Or Vayu, Varuna. The Vaisnava says, "No, we don't want this." Because either you become Rockefeller or Ford in this life, and next life the king of moon planet or sun planet or in any way, up to the Brahma planet, Brahmaloka, Lord Brahma, Krsna says, abrahma-bhuvanal lokaḥ punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg 8.16]:

"My dear Arjuna, by your endeavor, even you become promoted to the highest position of this material world, still, you have to die, and again-either come down or remain there-there will be change of body." Abrahma-bhuvanal lokaḥ punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg 8.16]. "So why should you be implicated in these material activities? Try to come to Me, back to home, back to Godhead. Then you'll haven't got to return again in this material world. That is the highest perfection." So this is called brahma-jijnasa. By inquiring about Brahman one can understand that "Even if I go to the topmost planet of this material world, the four principles of miseries-birth, death, old age and disease-there is."

When Brahma, Lord Brahma, was asked by Hiranyakasipu to make him immortal... He was undergoing severe penances to become immortal. So Lord Brahma immediately said, "I am not immortal. How can I give you the benediction of immortality? That is not possible." Then, indirectly... He was very cunning. Then he..., indirectly he thought that "If I get benediction like this, I'll automatically become immortal." What is that? "Now, no man can kill me." "All right, that's all right." "No demigod can kill me." "That's all right." But he forgot God. Because he is godless, he did not say, "Even God cannot kill me." That he forgot. In this way he took benediction that "I shall not die on the land." "Yes." "I shall not die on the water." "Yes." "I shall not die in the air." "Yes." "I shall not be killed by any animal." "Yes." In this way, whatever intelligence he got, but he forgot one thing, that "God cannot also kill me." Because maya is there, he forgot it. He took so many benediction, but he did not take this benediction, that "Even God cannot kill me." That he forgot. Therefore, ultimately, with all his intelligence, he failed to become immortal.

So these are all demoniac activities. The divine activities, they are different. So Krsna is describing here that etam drstim avastabhya. They manufacture so many demonic ideas, but real idea they forget. Real idea is "God is great; I am small. Therefore I am eternal servant of God." Simple thing. "God is great." Everyone says, "God is great," but he is trying to be as great as God. How it is possible? If you are so powerful you can become as great as God, then why you are trying to become God if you are actually as great as God? That answer they cannot give. Why you are fallen into this material world as very, very small, insignificant? God is not insignificant. That is demonic idea. Therefore it is called etam drstim avastabhya. Their vision is not very correct. Etam drstim avastabhya nasta atmanaḥ. Nasta means lost, lost. Just like if you are lost of your intelligence, you can talk all nonsense. Nastatmanaḥ. "There is no God" means nastatmanaḥ: he's not very intelligent; he has lost his intelligence. Atmanaḥ. Nastatmanaḥ. Why nastatmanaḥ? Alpa-buddhayaḥ: the intelligence is not very sharp. Alpa, poor fund of knowledge. Poor fund of knowledge. On account of poor fund of knowledge they think like that: "There is no God," "I am God," and so on, so on, "There is no basic principle of this creation." They do not know.

The basic principle of creation is that this material world is the field of activities of the rebellious living entity. "I don't want to serve Krsna. I want to serve my senses." That is the whole world, going on. This Hawaiian city or any city, especially in your America, they're very, very busy. So ask them, "What is the aim of your life?" They'll say, "Sense gratification." "I shall earn money, eat nicely, drink nicely, enjoy nicely. That is the aim of life." They do not know. Etam drstim avastabhya. Their vision is so polluted. Nastatmanaḥ: they have lost their spiritual ideas, spiritual sense, or Krsna consciousness. The highest principle of spiritual sense means Krsna consciousness, to understand God. That is mahatma, mahatma.

So without becoming Krsna conscious, everyone's life is baffled. He's demon. So demons, they are trying only to adjust things materially, which is impossible. So they are busy, prabhavanti, flourishing. Prabhavanti. Prabhavanti means flourishing. Ugra-karmanaḥ. Karma... We have to do some work. That's a fact. Krsna says that "Without doing something, you cannot maintain your body and soul together." Karmano jyayo... What is that?

Devotee: Karmani limpanti [Bg 4.14]?

Prabhupada: No. That... Karma is better then vikarma. The... Krsna says that "You must be engaged in some work. You cannot sit idle. That is not good." "Idle brain is a devil's workshop." Krsna never said that "My dear Arjuna, you are My first-class devotee. Now you sit down and I'll do everything for you." No. Krsna never said. Rather, Arjuna was not willing to fight, and Krsna was inducing him, "You must fight. You must fight." Krsna never said that "You become idle krsna-bhakta." Never said.

So those who are trying to be idle krsna-bhaktas, they are not devotees. One must be engaged with Krsna's work. That is devotion. Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ [Bg 9.14]. Always chanting the glory of Krsna and trying everything for benefit of Krsna, that is mahatma. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim..., bhajanty an... [Bg 9.13]. Bhajanti means "He's always engaged in My service." That is mahatma. Laziness is not bhakti. There must be something. But if somebody says, "Now I'll chant, sitting down. Who is going to see me? I'll doze, and people will know I am chanting." You see? This kind of cheating will not do. All those who are interested in Krsna consciousness... Therefore we have given time, sixteen rounds. But you are not Haridasa Thakura that you'll be able to chant whole day and night. If without working, if you chant, that is the highest state. That you cannot do. Then you sleep, that's all. So not that. The minimum quantity, sixteen rounds chant, and that will take not more than two hours. And other twenty-two hours, you be always busy in Krsna's activities. That is required. That is,

This is upasate. So work is there. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is fighting. That is also Krsna consciousness. Yudhyasva mam anusmara [Bg 8.7]. Krsna said that "You chant. You remember Me. At the same time, fight." Yudhyasva mam anusmara. He never said that "Simply fight" or "Simply chant," because in the material world that is not possible. Therefore chanting must be there, but at the same time, you have to work how to continue this movement. The movement requires energy. We are printing so many books. For spreading this knowledge, that must be distributed. Home to home, place to place, man to man, this literature must go there. If he... If one takes one book, at least one day he'll read it: "Let me see what is this book I have purchased the other day." And if he reads one line his life will be successful-if he reads one line only, carefully. This is such literature. So therefore book distribution I am giving so much stress. Somehow or other, small book or big book, if it is given to somebody he'll read someday, and he'll derive... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato... Just like the Vedanta-sūtra says, janmady asya yataḥ.

So you can research, make research work throughout the whole life, where is the original source of everything. That is Krsna consciousness. If you not dull, if you are intelligent and if you take the sūtra, this code, janmady asya yataḥ, the original source of everything... That is knowledge, that is philosophy, that is science-to find out the original source. That is Krsna consciousness. So we are not searching after the original consciousness, but we are giving to the people directly that "Here is the original source of everything, Krsna. [break] Without your research work, you take it." That is our mission. They are searching after God. We are giving God: "Here is God. Here is His name. Here is His address. Here is occupation. Here is His father's name, His mother's name." Everything there is. It is not bogus, bogus [indistinct]. Krsna is accepted God. How is He accepted? Vedic literature, the Brahma-sūtra, says. The Brahma-sūtra commentary, explanation, is the Bhagavatam. Bhasyam brahma-sūtranam. Brahma-sūtranam, commentary...

[break] ...and according to your consciousness, in this way they have become entangled, entrapped in this material [indistinct]. That is not the life of human being. The life of human being is to become Krsna conscious. And you will be peaceful as soon as you understand Krsna. What is that Krsna?

If you want really peace, you try to understand these reasons. What is that? That Krsna is the enjoyer of everything. Why? Then, sarva-loka-mahesvaram: He is the proprietor of all the universe, all the planets. So, maybe. "Why should we worship Him?" Suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam: He is the real friend of everyone. So you are seeking after friend: He is the real friend, He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer. You try to understand these three things, and if peace is there, your life is successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! [end]