760210MW.MAY

Prabhupada: What is this meaning?

Hari-sauri: They say that's just a figure of speech.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hari-sauri: A figure of speech. Not meant to be literal.

Prabhupada: Everything is theory. No practical. [break] ...ten direction. Eight direction, corner, and north-east, east-west, and up and down. So everywhere He is present. So Krsna has got ten hands. So my father used to say, "If when Krsna takes your money or possession in ten hands, how you can protect it with two hands? And when He give you in ten hands, how much you can take in two hands?" [laughs] So in my case it has become practical. Everything He has taken in ten hands, and now He is giving in ten hands. [laughter] I am practically experiencing. My Guru Maharaja ordered me, "You do this." I was trying to save my business, my family, with two hands, and Krsna took it in ten hands. [laughs] And now, after making me beggar, He is giving me, ten hands: "You take as much as you like." Now I am thinking of my father's instruction. [break] ...ambition was that I become a great devo..., bhagavata. That was his... He used to invite so many saintly persons, and he would pray, "Please bless my son"-I was very pet son-"that he may become a devotee of Radharani. Radharani may bless him." That was his only prayer.

Tamala Krsna: Fulfilled.

Prabhupada: Yes. He was inviting so many saintly persons. That is the old system, to receive saintly person.

Hrdayananda: Srila Prabhupada, you said that you were not so much impressed by the saintly persons that were coming.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hrdayananda: Why was that?

Prabhupada: Not all of them were real Vaisnava. That was my discrimination from the beginning of my life. I never liked these bogus svamis and yogis. I never liked. But my father had no discrimination: "Never mind whatever he is. He is a saintly person. Receive him." He was giving fortnightly... There was one Mayavadi sannyasi in Kalighata. So first of all the father was sannyasi, then his son was sannyasi. So we had very good relationship with him. I also used to... Because father was going. So he would carry ganja for him-in those days ganja was very cheap-so much ganja and so much butter. Whenever he would visit, he'd give some red cloth, ganja and butter.

Tamala Krsna: Your father would give him ganja?

Prabhupada: That, to sannyasi.

Tamala Krsna: Why?

Prabhupada: Well, he was smoking ganja.

Tamala Krsna: But why did he supply him?

Prabhupada: He did not discriminate that "This is bad." He smokes, and he had some regard for him. "All right, take ganja." [laughter]

Hrdayananda: So Krsna is also like that if we...

Prabhupada: He was offering him something, "Whatever he likes." That was his theory.

Tamala Krsna: Friendly.

Prabhupada: Yes. "It doesn't matter." He did not know the ganja smoking was bad for sadhu. That is impression in India. We criticize, but in India, in every sadhu samaj they smoke ganja.

Tamala Krsna: Still?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Not high class. These bogus svamis and yogis, they...

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that Mr. Das, the lawyer who came here?

Prabhupada: Ah.

Tamala Krsna: I used to visit him, and he had one sadhu who used to come who was his guru, and he would also smoke ganja.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ganja smoking is not taken as bad in India-by the sadhus, not ordinary men.

Tamala Krsna: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, ganja smoking by the sadhus, sannyasis, is not taken very bad, serious. The hippies learned from them.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Allen Ginsberg introduced. "Yes. Ganja smoking is very good by the saintly person."

Tamala Krsna: I think your Guru Maharaja spoke strongly against such persons.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.

Tamala Krsna: Bhaktivinoda Thakura also was...

Prabhupada: He was also not very serious, but Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was very serious, and we learned from him. No, it is sastriya. No intoxication is good.

Tamala Krsna: How is it that Bhaktivinoda Thakura was not so strict in that regard, yet his son, who learned from him, became very strict, like a rod?

Prabhupada: [chuckles] Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was so strict [laughs] that because he married twice, he used to say, "Stri-saṅgi, attached to woman," even his father. [laughter] He was very strict. Sometimes when he would be angry, he'd, "You stri-saṅgi." And don't discuss this thing. [laughs] He was very strict. No excuse, no compromise.

Tamala Krsna: That's where you got all of that from.

Prabhupada: My is imitation, but his was real. [laughs] All these Navadvipa people were afraid of him.

Tamala Krsna: Afraid.

Prabhupada: Strong-hearted. They made a, what is called, conspiracy to kill him.

Hrdayananda: Who did this?

Prabhupada: Oh, the Navadvipa gosvamis. They raised 25,000 rupees and wanted to bribe this police officer that "You take this money. We shall finish him. Don't take any action."

Tamala Krsna: But the policeman said...?

Prabhupada: Refused. "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases."

Tamala Krsna: Why?

Prabhupada: "He's a saintly person. We cannot agree to that." Everyone knows police takes bribe. They admit, "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases." This was told by Guru Maharaja, Bhaktisi..., to me. He was talking many things confidential.

Tamala Krsna: No, but what is that story that one time Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati was invited to... He wanted to get invitation or he was invited to speak, and they put so many conditions on his speaking. It was some place.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: They said, "Now you cannot speak on such and such subject." He agreed, "All right."

Prabhupada: I think there was a Vaisnava meeting inaugurated by Maharaja Manindranandi. You are referring to that. [break] When I was visiting, I used to sit on his couch. Yes, like... Guru Maharaja was sitting on the couch, so I took him as ordinary gentleman. So then nobody asked me that, that "You are sitting? Get down." No. Nobody asked me. Then I was seeing that all other big, big disciples, they are sitting down. So then I began to sit down. Neither Guru Maharaja told me, neither anybody told me.

Tamala Krsna: What kind of a... It was a regular couch...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...or a cauki?

Prabhupada: Yes. Not cauki; couch. That padded couch, bench.

Hrdayananda: Sofa.

Prabhupada: Sofa, sofa, yes.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, boy. You were a young man at that time.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: But no one said anything.

Prabhupada: Not very young. It was in 19... Yes.

Tamala Krsna: 1923?

Prabhupada: No. '23, of course, when I first met him, he was sitting, ground. I was also. At Mathura there was party, parikrama party, in 1933. So I went to see that party, what they are doing, Gaudiya Matha, out of inquisitiveness.

Tamala Krsna: It was at that time.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: You mentioned once that most of the parikrama devotees, they wanted to go on parikrama, but he was speaking?

Prabhupada: Yes. So I did not go to parikrama, so he very much appreciated. There was announcement that "Now parikrama will start in the evening at five, and Prabhupada also will speak. So anyone who wants to hear Prabhupada, he can stay. Others be ready for going." So about a dozen men remained, and all went to parikrama. So I was at that time new man-not exactly new man, but not recognized disciple. I did not go. So he saw that I am sitting, I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated.

Hari-sauri: That was the same time that you took initiation?

Prabhupada: Yes. After that, I took initiation.

Tamala Krsna: Where was the initiation ceremony?

Prabhupada: That Allahabad.

Tamala Krsna: In Allahabad.

Prabhupada: 1933.

Tamala Krsna: So from Mathura everyone went to Allahabad?

Prabhupada: Yes, or they went to somewhere. But I came back. From Allahabad I went to Mathura, and I came back to Allahabad at my own place.

Tamala Krsna: Initiation was held at that Gaudiya Matha in Allahabad?

Prabhupada: Hah. At that time that Gaudiya Matha also not there. That is at a rented house.

Tamala Krsna: Did you help to build that one?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamala Krsna: Did you help to establish that Gaudiya Matha? Or that was after?

Prabhupada: No, majority was paid by one of my Godbrothers, that three thousand, purchasing land. Then gradually developed. We used to pay something. [break] ...before to here?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. He has come many times, Tarun Babu.

Prabhupada: He came many times? [end]