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Prabhupada: ...duniya sab bahuraṅg hoke ghar ghar magni puse. Do you know this? [break] ...go somewhere, better go, at least four men. And when you read some knowledge, at least two men. But when you eat, one man. Don't bring four men and two men. Then you will be hungry; he will be hungry. [laughter] So for advancement of knowledge, two men at least required, discussion-not that I am reading and sleeping also.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Just before coming here we were in Laguna Beach, and Gurukrpa Maharaja, Yasodanandana Maharaja, Paramahamsa Maharaja, Visnujana Maharaja and myself, we got your new books, Caitanya-caritamrta. So we were reading constantly from early in the morning. We found it was very enlivening, the fact that we were reading amongst a number of devotees.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore it is called istagosthi, or discussion. Discussion does not take place alone. There must be at least two.

Indian man (1): Dvabhyam pathanam pathi. Ekas tapah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Dvabhyam pathanam. [Transl. These are the instructions of the great personalities.] Either you speak in Bengali or in Sanskrit. [break] Then that is an asset. One day they will come to help us. It is called ajnata-sukrti, devotional advancement without knowledge. Even Mayavadis have actually appreciated. In Hyderabad, these Mayavadi sannyasis were challenged by the people that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has gone to foreign countries, and he established so many Radha-Krsna temple. What did you do? If you say that you disagree with Bhaktivedanta Swami-you worship demigods-so how many demigods' temple you have established?" They challenge like that. "If you say that you are worshiper of Lord Siva, why don't you go and establish a Siva temple? You are sitting idly here."

Indian man (2): And Siva always worshiped Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is another thing. That is another thing. They, "If you believe that Lord Siva is the Supreme, why don't you go and establish? Why you are sitting here and declaring jagad-guru?" Their purpose was that "Either you worship Siva or Krsna, it doesn't matter, but if you would have done something, that would have spread the Hindu conception of... But you are not doing there anything. Why do you call yourself jagad-guru?" [Transl. All these big, big persons here in India are all, bana gaṅye siyala raja.] "A jackal is the king in the forest." And they do not go outside.

Indian man (2): They do not go outside because even the...

Prabhupada: Even Gaṅgesvarananda went; he came back, disappointed. What they will do? Chinmayananda goes so many times. What does he do? [Transl. He is like a jackle only in his own territory. In the jungle a jackle declares itself that "Now I am the king."] [break] He is so big, what does he have? What he has done? This thing going on. Phalena pariciyate. One has to be studied by the result, not by talking. It is not that Caitanya Mahaprabhu entrusted the subject of preaching only unto me. Why they do not go, the gosvamis, svamis, big, big sannyasis, and stalwart? Why they are rotting within this area?

Indian man (2): They know only how to criticize for nothing.

Prabhupada: No, what is the meaning of that criticize? First of all you come to the stage.

Tamala Krsna: Enviousness.

Prabhupada: Now Bon Maharaja, our Godbrother, went. What did he bring? He brought some HMD. HMD. You know HMD? You do not know?

Indian man (3): Hindustan Machine Tools. [Watch manufacturing company]

Indian man (2): Accha. When Bon Maharaja came I asked him many things, many questions. He was praising, and he said that more than fifty percent people are liking our organization in USA. Only due to that, their children got saved from intoxication. And they are happy that their lives are also... That's what he told me. I told him, "What is your impression about our organization there, and how have you heard?" Then he told me everything. He also told me that one or two places [indistinct] he just... [break]

Prabhupada: [Transl. ...at least he said something. For him, that is all right.]

Tamala Krsna: ...official said, "Hare Krsna." When we went to...

Prabhupada: They have been forced to forget Hare Krsna by the so-called rascal leaders. Otherwise India is meant for chanting Hare Krsna, the whole India. [break] ...scandalous these Mayavadis, and next the politician, killing the spirit of India. These Mayavadis teaching, "Why you are after God? You are God." That's all. And he says, "Yes, I am God. Why shall I worship God?" This is the... And becoming God..., when they do not get any relish of becoming God, then the politician says, "It is all useless. Come to the political field. Take daridra-narayana-seva. That's all, finished." The Mayavadi creates the field of atheism, and later on, the politician make them perfect atheist.

Indian man (2): I am also building a small temple in my place here. [break]

Prabhupada: ...kutumba-bharanena va. Nidraya hriyate naktam vyavayena ca va vayah [SB 2.1.3]. Vayah means age. They are wasting their this human form of life, duration of life, at night either by sleeping or by sex. Nidraya hriyate naktram vyavayena ca va vayah. And in daytime... Diva carthehaya rajan... In daytime-"Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" [aside:] Jaya. And when he gets money, how to spend it for kutumbha, not for Krsna. They get money sufficiently, and as soon as he is asked to spare some money for Krsna, "No, the law is that I should give money to my sons. The law is." Even our devotees are saying like that. "The law is that I must give to my son, not to Krsna."

Tamala Krsna: Our devotees are saying that?

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Then why have you come to Vrndavana? To show your face? They only come here for that. To show their faces. "My Lord, whatever I had I have given to my wife and children and come here. Now You see my face!"] "You just see my face, beautiful face. And whatever I had, that I have left with my sons and wife." Mostly they come...

Indian man (2): And at the same time, they all are earning.

Prabhupada: No, that is for their sons.

Indian man (2): They are earning themselves, their son, sufficiently.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are coming to God! At least bring something for God!] ...in the Back to Godhead that those who are come to Vrndavana for sense gratification, their next birth is monkey and dog in Vrndavana; then next birth liberated. So they became angry. Vrndavana is not for sense gratification. Narottama dasa Thakura therefore says,

The rasa-lila of Krsna and Radharani, a person like Narottama dasa Thakura says, "I could not understand it because I have not yet studied the instruction of Rupa Gosvami and Raghunatha Gosvami, six Gosvamis. How can I understand?" So these people, they think by seeing rasa-lila by professional men they will understand the lila of Krsna. Rupa-Raghunatha instruction not cared for. But without going through the literature, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, nobody can understand what is Krsna consciousness.

[Transl. All these people who come to watch rasa-lila, when they return home they carry on with their business. Had they understood it they would have left business.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. They cannot do it. Maharajaji, just for relax.]

Prabhupada: ...goddess Kali.

Indian man (2): [Transl. He is some tantrika, Maharaja. Some villagers come to him, and he exsorcises them and takes their money. That's all.]

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada? You mention in your book that recently they have begun some demigod worship in Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Yes. Not recently. Since very long time. These gosvamis.

Tamala Krsna: Caste gosvamis. But originally this was not the fact.

Prabhupada: Originally there was Rupa Gosvami. Now they are imitation.

[aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya. [end]