740416MW.BOM

Prabhupada: ...forsake that the cows are also being...

[indistinct] ...individuality, of the original calves and boys. And He expanded. That is... Read that portion.

Dr. Patel: Not only that, but His clothings and everything.

Prabhupada: Everything.

Dr. Patel: Sticks, clothings, lunch bags and everything.

Prabhupada: Everything. This is God.

Giriraja: [reading from Krsna book] "He expanded Himself to become exactly like the boys, who were of all different features, facial and bodily construction, and who were different in their clothing and ornaments and in their behavior and personal activities. In other words, everyone had different tastes."

Dr. Patel: Here I read about Him. [indistinct] From First Chapter of Srimad-Bhagavatam. [break]

Prabhupada: ...bhava-samanvitah. What is that? Iti matva bhajante mam budha-bhava-samanvitah [Bg 10.8]. The bhajana is there...

Dr. Patel: "You come in my bhava, and then bhajana."

Prabhupada: Yes. Bhava is the previous condition of prema.

[break] ...in life there are so many varieties, temperature and focus of light, but actually, the heat and light is coming from the fire. So in spite of all varieties of degrees of heat and light, it is one because it is the energy of Krsna.

[break] Because original is taken away, and He has to satisfy their mother, other the mothers will cry, "Oh, Krsna, my boy went with You. Where he is?"

Dr. Patel: Boys and cows and calves and all...

Prabhupada: Yes, everything. This is Krsna. [break]

Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada? Are they as good as Krsna Himself?

Prabhupada: They are Syamasundara, but they are playing a different part in the face of their parents.

Dr. Patel: You are the old man with the banned face and you are the young boy and you are the ch, ch, chirping... [break]

Prabhupada: Her mother sent him to become a sudra. So he had to correct it again, but he is fortunate enough that he has come forward to correct himself. That is...

Yasomatinandana: My question is, Prabhupada, that these boys and cows are visnu-tattvas. They are not jivas.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, visnu-tattva, certainly. That will be explained later on. They...

Dr. Patel: Even jiva-tattva is part of visnu-tattva. Everything comes from Visnu.

Prabhupada: No. [break] ...between visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva...

Dr. Patel: [Hindi]

Prabhupada: Visnu-tattva. They are visnu-tattva. They are the spirit soul, they are varieties. Mamaivamsa. Just like amsa. Suppose if you break one brick, some fragments come out. All the fragments are not of the same size. There are different size. Similarly, although all the living entities are part and parcel of Krsna, their constitution of impotency are different. [break] There are divisions, divisions, subdivisions. Yes.

Dr. Patel: But final, the main group is this. [break]

Prabhupada: ...tesv avasthitah. Maya tatam idam sarvam [Bg 9.4].

[aside:] Hare Krsna. Go on.

Giriraja: "The residents had no knowledge of what had happened. After entering the village, Vrndavana, all the calves entered their respective cowsheds and the boys also went to their respective mothers and homes." [break]

Prabhupada: My younger sister, up to seven years she was sucking my mother's breast.

Dr. Patel: We, as medical men, advise not to, I mean, allow the boys...

Prabhupada: She would not leave mother. I have seen it.

Dr. Patel: One year is the maximum time we allow. And the Americans dugs[?] don't allow them to suckle, because they spoil their... [break]

Prabhupada: Baby's food.

Dr. Patel: And in Australia they give breast to the children or they give baby food? Yes. They are near to us.

Prabhupada: Your girls are gradually becoming next[?] to America.

Indian man (1): Becoming anglicized, yes, Americanized.

Prabhupada: "Advanced."

Dr. Patel: Now there is the one world. There is no use of that. All are having the same epidemic. Yes. That is spread very widely.

Prabhupada: And the medicine is Krsna consciousness. Bhava-ausadhi. Srotriyam mano-bhirama [SB 10.1.4]. Go on.

Giriraja: "The mothers of the boys heard the vibration of their flutes before their entrance, and to receive them they came out of their homes and embraced them."

Prabhupada: They took the position of Yasoda, directly feeding. This is the unique position of Vrndavana. [break] ...yogamaya.

Dr. Patel: Yogamaya samanvitah.

Prabhupada: Ah. Naham prakasah sarvasya yogamaya-samavrtah [Bg 7.25]. So two maya is working.

Dr. Patel: Yogamaya is the superior maya.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, for Krsna, all mayas are the same. Just for engineer, the electricity is the same both in the refrigerator and the heater. For us, we see different, that "This is hot and this is cold." [break] ...when you are freed from all these mayas. That is Krsna's mercy. [break] ...the sample of Krsna's mercy?

Dr. Patel: [Hindi]

Prabhupada: No, no. No, Krsna says in the Bhagavata, yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaih [SB 10.88.8], that "This is My mercy. The first test is that I take away everything what he possesses."

Dr. Patel: [Hindi] We have not heard of getting [indistinct]. [laughs]

Prabhupada: No, therefore people do not like to become Vaisnava. No, actually. Yasyaham anughrnami. That is the first installment of His mercy. Yasyaham anughrnami harisye... You know this. It was questioned by Maharaja Yudhisthira.

Dr. Patel: Yes, I have gone through this.

Prabhupada: Yes, Maharaja Yudhisthira. Yes. [break] ...a little doubtful that Krsna is the Laksmi-pati, Narayana, and those who are devotees of Krsna, they become poorer. And Lord Siva, who has no even a residential house, he lives under the tree...

Dr. Patel: The bhutas.

Prabhupada: ...and the devotee of Lord Siva, they become opulent. So what is the reason? So this was questioned by Maharaja Yudhisthira to Krsna. So Krsna first answered, yasyaham anughrnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaih [SB 10.88.8]: "This is the first installment of My mercy." [break]

Dr. Patel: I want to be [indistinct]...

[break] Mahabharata. Not Rama, Rama is being produced by..., in Baroda.

Prabhupada: I have got Mahabharata. Not that published by the Gita Press.

Dr. Patel: They are all, really, they have made it... For forty years they collected all the books...

Prabhupada: Anyway, I have got this Mahabharata.

Dr. Patel: That is costing about three thousand rupees. [everyone talking] [break] But is it not animal food?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: That's it.

Prabhupada: No, no, animal, mother's milk also animal food.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupada: Everything is animal...

Dr. Patel: But that does not mean it is not animal. [break]

Prabhupada: ...tendency.

Dr. Patel: But now the modern eggs, you see, they are not hatched out, and there is no life.

Indian man (1): Unfertilized.

Dr. Patel: Unfertilized. You see. He knows it. It is just like milk.

Prabhupada: There is life. There is life.

Indian man (1): Unfertilized, but then...

Dr. Patel: But then what? [break]

Prabhupada: She became widow at the age of eighteen years. So my father engaged her in worshiping Deity. My father was worshiping, and she was the assistant. Of course, she had two children by that time. [to Giriraja:] Yes, go on. [break] ...Krsna, and Krsna is all-attractive. So immediately they attracted the other cows, although they were not actual mother.

[break] ...doctor in Calcutta, young man, he married the daughter of a very rich man. So his father-in-law gave him a motorcar, so he advised... He was a businessman. He advised that "Even if you have no practice, you simply ride on this car and go round."

Dr. Patel: [laughter] He's a typical Bengali. [Prabhupada laughs]

Prabhupada: So actually, by his going round, he increased his practice. [Indians talking Hindi at once] [break] ...between demigod. Demigods are also expansion, but that is separated expansion, separated expansion, vibhinnamsa. In the Varaha Purana it is said, vibhinnamsa. And here, svamsa, personal expansion. [break]

Indian man (2): I have worked with men of international fame like Colonel de Gaulle, Colonel Acton, Colonel Knowles, but worldwide... [break]

Prabhupada: ...living enities. Because you do not accept the soul, medical science.

Dr. Patel: Soul is already everywhere. But what do you say? Everywhere means only on the earth, not away from the earth, and then outer space. You want to say... Do you mean outer space also?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Sarvaga. Sarvaga means...

Dr. Patel: But these boys have to be kept in those living bags, with saturation of oxygen, who have landed on moon. [break]

Prabhupada: ...the statement in the Caitanya-caritamrta, krsna yei bhaje sei bada catur: "Unless one is very, very extraordinarily intelligent, he cannot be a devotee of Krsna." Svalpa-punya-vatam rajan visvaso naiva jayate.

This is the statement of the sastras: "Those who are less pious, they cannot believe in Krsna and maha-prasada and the holy name." Yesam anta-gatam papam [Bg 7.28]. So you have given some medicine.

[break] ...na bhinnam. Nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam [Cc Madhya 17.186]. So the medical..., anyone, lawyer, medical man, although they are very advanced in science, they have got difference of opinion.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the research would not have... These modern researches would not have been brought into existence if there was no difference.

Prabhupada: No, that is their nature, to differ. That is the nature. Nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam: "He is not a muni if he does not differ with other muni."

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it. Muni does not speak. Maunam. [break]

Prabhupada: Why there is difference?

[break] ...and Krsna's power is compared. Brahma's power is just like glowworm, and Krsna's power is just like day sunlight.

[break] The power displayed, they are of different degrees. That is the difference. The Mayavadi philosophers, they say everything is water. They give that example. But the sea water, the force of the sea water, and the water in a pot, small pot, the degrees of force are different. In England it is very common to say, "Lord Chelmsford. Lord Chelmsford," do you know?

Dr. Patel: Chelempor. We used to call him Chelempor.

Prabhupada: No. So Chelmsford is a place, is a village. But he is called Lord Chelmsford. He is personified. Like that. [break]

Giriraja: One Lord Chelmsford, or anyone who...?

Dr. Patel: When his son becomes a Lord of Chelmsford and...

Prabhupada: Yes, continues, continues. It is... What is called? They create aristocratic family. One has to deposit certain amount of money to the government, and then the family...

Indian man (1): Gets the title.

Prabhupada: Gets the title "Lord." And to maintain their prestige the government supplies the interest of the money. And the first son becomes the inheritor. So in this way the Lord family continues. [break]

Giriraja: "...in the three qualities of material nature."

Prabhupada: Therefore a man in any quality-it doesn't matter whether he is in goodness or passion or ignorance-anyone can worship Krsna. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah [Bg 9.32]. So there is no restriction. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha... [SB 2.4.18]. Anyone is open to worship Krsna. Krsna is open for everyone.

Dr. Patel: This scene and all those things showed to Brahma was to teach him a sort of lesson, to take out his ego from him.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That was the purpose. It was not that Brahma was degraded, but Krsna is merciful upon Brahma and Indra. Hmm. Go on.

Giriraja: "Lord Visnu, Brahma also realized, was the reservoir of all truth, knowledge and bliss. He is the combination of three transcendental features, namely eternity, knowledge and bliss. Is the object of worship by the followers of the Upanisads. Brahma realized that all the different forms of cows, boys and calves transformed into Visnu forms were not transformed by a mysticism of the type that a yogi or demigod can display by specific powers invested in him. The cows, calves and boys transformed into visnu-murtis, or Visnu forms, were not displays of visnu-maya, or Visnu energy, but were Visnu Himself. The respective qualifications of Visnu and visnu-maya are just like fire and heat. In the heat there is the qualification..." [break]

Dr. Patel: [Sanskrit] [break]

Prabhupada: So you stop. You stop only. Give up, give up the result.

Dr. Patel: That is what the Bhagavad-gita says. [break]

Prabhupada: ...karyam karma karoti yah,...

Dr. Patel: Sa sannyasi ca yogi ca [Bg 6.1].

Prabhupada: Hmm. Go on.

Dr. Patel: [Hindi]

Giriraja: "The transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect, or so great that the impersonal followers of the Upanisads cannot..." [break]

Prabhupada: Sometimes we...

Dr. Patel: First reading, you don't mind following.

Prabhupada: Yes. So after all, we have got still the material body. Sometimes we get tired. That is also fortune. [break] That is the advantage of human life. You can check.

Dr. Patel: Particular intelligence is given to human being?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: The elephant has got so much intelligence, they say, as good as human being. No?

Prabhupada: Intelligence... Not only intelligence. Human life has got the discriminating power. Sad-asat. [Indians speaking all together]

[break] ...infected, how your medicine will be sold?

[break] [Indians speaking] ...merchant, I will say like that. [break] Since we are chanting Hare Krsna mantra, then bahyabhyantaram sucih [Garuda Purana]. We are... What is called? Prophylactic, prophylactic.

Dr. Patel: That is [indistinct]. [break] [end]