720920MW.LA

Devotees: [japa]

Svarupa Damodara: September 20, 1972, Los Angeles. [break]

Prabhupada: But why this question is not raised? In each factory so much chemical was manufactured. What is the factory?

Svarupa Damodara: Nes, Nestle.

Prabhupada: Millions of tons of.

Svarupa Damodara: That's a Nestle's owned factory.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Svarupa Damodara: The factory of Nestle.

Prabhupada: So, what is that nature? That is the question it is there to utilise nature's energy but what is this nature?

Svarupa Damodara: According to cosmologists the first element created was hydrogen.

Prabhupada: So who created? [laughs] that is the question.

Svarupa Damodara: There are.

Prabhupada: As soon as you say created, who created? Where created? How created? These questions there are…. That who created the chemicals in the factory?

Svarupa Damodara: Hm.

Prabhupada: So my question in whose factory hydrogen was…..Eh?

Karandhara: Sometimes say the [indistinct]. Each elements in the universe

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: Combined in so many different ways to produce so many different things they are eternal, they are already eternal.

Prabhupada: All right then but why do you say creation?

Karandhara: Well creation is change in mutation.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Svarupa Damodara: Hydrogen itself contains two fundamental particles one called electron and one called proton. So these two fundamental particles they are balanced within the atom which are the creation itself. The hydrogen atom is the simplest of all the atoms and from hydrogen everything comes out. All the elements like gold, platinum and all the elements, ninety-two elements come out from hydrogen. That's their theory.

And then when these elements like gold and platinum all these metals are heated at a very high temperature they again become hydrogen. So the balance is going on between hydrogen and all the other atoms, equilibrium. And it is controlled only by temperature and the pressure.

Prabhupada: So if they actually say temperature there is the question of fire and electricity.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: So where is the powerhouse where the electricity is being produced?

Svarupa Damodara: It goes in the [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: [indistinct] of the transcendental body of Govinda.

Karandhara: What do they say about so far about the atomic particle? Atomic particles they say there is a theory of conservation of energy?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Karandhara: What do they say, that the base energy of the universe has always been here?

Svarupa Damodara: The energy, the energy?

Prabhupada: As soon as they say energy it must be the source of energy.

Karandhara: What is the answer they give [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You don't find here any energy without any source. Electric energy there is electric powerhouse and in the powerhouse there is the engineer who is manipulating different machines giving power. That is our experience. If you say it is always existing then why do you create?

Karandhara: By create they mean just change.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: Mutate.

Prabhupada: Change means there is brain there is engineers, manipulator. Then [indistinct] will change?

Svarupa Damodara: They create means they discovered.

Prabhupada: Discovered?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, yes.

Prabhupada: So how it existed because in our experience we see that any energy is coming from a source.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: So what is that source?

Karandhara: That, that experience is just relative experience.

Prabhupada: So where is the absolute? We have to go to the absolute.

Karandhara: They say the absolute is just an infinity of existence of that energy.

Prabhupada: That's all right but so many, what's it called? Permutations?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, permutations and combinations.

Prabhupada: Yes they are going on so there must be some brain. Just like the scientists are now trying to utilise the Sun energy for producing power energy.

Svarupa Damodara: First principle of conservation of energy is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed…

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Svarupa Damodara: So it must be existing.

Prabhupada: Yes, existing but it is being manipulated, everything is existing.

Svarupa Damodara: Hm.

Prabhupada: But just like when we cook something everything is there in the kitchen but somebody goes and manipulates and then nice foodstuff comes out.

Svarupa Damodara: So there has to be an operator.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Karandhara: They are thinking that operator is not necessarily a person or in control of, it's simply a set of laws.

Prabhupada: No, you cannot say that because as soon as you say operator it is a person. Must be person. Because it is systematic without brain without person how things can be done machine is operating but it is systematic. Such a big ocean we are in front why waves [indistinct] a small bird in front but because he is confident in the system he is facing. That is the system otherwise in a second the vast ocean can create catastrophe.

Karandhara: But that system is too involved and too many permutations to be in charge of.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: That system you said is regulated in various ways.

Prabhupada: Yes

Devotee: It's too great for any person to be in charge of.

Prabhupada: Must be person he is a great person but he must be person.

Devotee: That they cannot imagine.

Prabhupada: That is their less intelligence because as soon as there is something operation systematic there is a person behind it. The government, the United States government to the lay man it is impersonal but to the man who knows things the ultimate person is the president.

Svarupa Damodara: If there be no perfect brain.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: If there be no perfect brain.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Svarupa Damodara: The things cannot be ordered perfectly.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: It, it would be random.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: And so in our daily experience in the chemical laboratory we also find that for example the solutions when one makes for example colloidal solutions which are cells particles. So they tend to organize in such a way that the positive cells is always near the negative cells and never the negative cells with the negative cells because things are ordered in such a way that they always tend to be that way.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] of otherwise.

Karandhara: When we tell them that all this is under the order of a person they think we are simpletons.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: They think that's simpleton.

Prabhupada: Simpleton?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Why?

Svarupa Damodara: What is that?

Karandhara: Just like they say a child thinks his father is a controller or president that's simply because he simpleminded. He doesn't know that his father is not in so much control.

Prabhupada: But simpleminded, you are high-minded have you seen any child dropping from the sky? Do you think that a child he has dropped from the sky, there is no need of father and mother. Where is that instance?

Karandhara: Well they are working on that.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: [laughs]

Prabhupada: Just see the rascal. [laughs] just like there was a meetings it is a criticism to the East Bengal men. There is a farce comedy drama, the subject matter of this drama is that the woman are trying to become free, free. So the women are meeting together that we have solved all the question how to become free from this man's hand.

So the only difficulty is that still we have to beget children. Pregnancy is not there. So one rascal [indistinct] "Yes we are making research in future man will produce, I assure you." It is like that. In future man a male will produce child not the [indistinct] we are making research. The your statement.

Karandhara: They are actually doing that now, so some day.

Prabhupada: Yes that means. That proves that he is a rascal number one. As soon as he says yes we are doing that that means he proves himself to be a rascal.

Svarupa Damodara: That is something, they are trying to be impossible now. It's not possible.

Prabhupada: But this impossibility is made possible by God just like Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu produced a child from the naval, Brahma. Although his wife Laksmi Goddess of Fortune was there He did not take the help of the wife to produce Brahma. He produced Himself and that, that [indistinct] there not by others.

Devotee: Therefore he is called Urukrama

Prabhupada: Eh? Urukrama thank you, yes. As soon as impossibility becomes possible then he becomes God. [break] and [indistinct] [break] actually we should fast up to 12 o'clock and then we take Ekadasi feast.

Karandhara: [indistinct] breakfast fruits and I was thinking of tomorrow also we fast. If we fast in the morning we tend to not attend kirtan.

Prabhupada: All right.

Karandhara: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But today's Ekadasi

Karandhara: Yes

Prabhupada: Fasting today, no grains.

Karandhara: No grains.

[break]

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Devotee: I don't know unless they can pick up small particles out of the sand [indistinct]

Svarupa Damodara: The waves are becoming very big.

Prabhupada: Why?

Svarupa Damodara: Because the full moon is closing.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: So thirteen fourteen fifteen four days. Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday, Saturday is full moon. [break] twelve actually twelve Dvadasi.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: Thirteen fourteen fifteen. Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday full moon. [break]

Prabhupada: So definition of Brahma to supreme what is that supreme? The supreme is the source of everything. So you are not the supreme because you are not the source of everything. Therefore there is somebody which is the source of everything. That is God.

Karandhara: Sometimes some will say there is no source.

Prabhupada: Eh? No, why you are creating, why you are working? You are creating the city, laws and so many things you're creating to make the things systematic, usually.

Karandhara: But they, that's all relative. All the energy.

Prabhupada: But therefore the absolute relative is the sample of the absolute.

Karandhara: But to be absolute is the infinity of relativity.

Prabhupada: That's all right but you're not absolute that is the point. You are relative.

Karandhara: But they say relativity goes to infinity that's what absolute is.

Prabhupada: No relative is part of the absolute, that we admit but we are also creating so many things. We can create this roads and the cars like that but not a planet or universe that is not possible. You can create, imitate because we are part of the absolute we have got the qualities but you are not absolute.

Svarupa Damodara: I think it is absolute in the.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: Nothing is absolute in the material sense.

[in car]

Prabhupada: You are also creating with the chemicals already there but you're not the creator of the chemicals which are already there.

Karandhara: Therefore they say that nothing is created because everything is already there.

Prabhupada: Already there but you are taking advantage of it otherwise you don't create let everything is already there. Don't try to create. Why you are trying to create? The process is there just like a man having sex with a woman and a child is created. Everything is there you do not know how the child is formed, how the child is there within the womb you do not know but this process has been accepted.

The woman and man must unite otherwise there will be no child. So you are not creating but you are, it is called immediate cause. There are two causes of creation, there are five causes out of which the cause which is known as daiva providential that is very important. Hari-nama, hari-nama.

[japa]. You have created this motor car but it is dependent on petrol that was not created by you. The conclusion is that therefore we are not independent.

Svarupa Damodara: Hm.

Prabhupada: What do you say? Svarupa Damodara?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes we are not independent we are dependent on the supreme power.

Prabhupada: Something.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Something [indistinct].

Svarupa Damodara: We are parts and parcels of the.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarupa Damodara: We are all parts and parcels of the supreme.

Prabhupada: Absolute.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Salute.

Prabhupada: [indistinct]….summum bonum category. [japa]. God is summum bonum matter and spirit category a combination of matter and spirit. [japa]. [indistinct]. According to [indistinct] they have got also seven.

Devotee: Yes, doh ray me.

Prabhupada: Beginning from 'D'?

Devotee: Doh.

Prabhupada: And the [indistinct].

Devotee: Ah, yes that's right seven notes... [break]

Prabhupada: Sounds are already there in the nature.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, sound vibrations

Prabhupada: Yes and that you can learn from the animals, different animals have got different vowels.

[Sings softly] Sri Krsna Caitanya [indistinct]

Devotees: [japa] [end].