771101R3.VRN

Brahmananda: If you're not feeling well today, it can be postponed to another day.

Prabhupada: I am not feeling...

[pause] I did not eat even today.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada says he did not eat today, Bhakti-caru.

Bhakti-caru: You were sleeping, Srila Prabhupada, in the afternoon. That's why I didn't wake you up.

Prabhupada: No. There was no food at all.

Tamala Krsna: Didn't Prabhupada get milk and barley this morning?

Bhakti-caru: Yeah.

Bhavananda: Also you said he took twelve spoons of khicuri and loki?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. You took some lunch today, Srila Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: You took morning and lunch.

Prabhupada: That is very little.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. But compared to other days, you took as much or more. Well, then we can postpone and we can put ourselves under the care of this other kaviraja who came the other day.

Prabhupada: Who came?

Tamala Krsna: Remember the kaviraja from the Raṅgaji temple? The assistant that this man was going to bring. So now we can be put under his care and take our chances. 'Cause that's what staying here means.

Bhavananda: The kaviraj-ji, he explained that if you remained here, that would be good. But he didn't think there was any risk of death for you to go to Mayapur.

Prabhupada: No, actually, when I was making parikrama, this corner, I was feeling fainted.

Tamala Krsna: This corner?

Brahmananda: At the turn. Prabhupada felt like fainting.

Bhavananda: I saw when he closed his eyes.

Tamala Krsna: Well, most of this traveling that we're going to do, you will be laying down.

Prabhupada: That laying down and this laying down, that is different.

Tamala Krsna: Well, then we have to think of what the alternative is. Staying here means being subject to the possible care of this assistant who you saw the other day, 'cause this kaviraja will not wait any longer. He can't stay here any longer. We can try and convince him to stay, but I don't know how successful we will be. And he may give his medicines, but if some unforeseen difficulty develops, then it means that we are under the care of this other person.

Bhavananda: This palanquin parikrama is very rough. You're bouncing up and down. You're going swinging sideways.

Tamala Krsna: [aside:] It's not as rough as traveling to Mayapur, though-not one tenth as rough or one fiftieth. You know, all you got to do is go on a rough road. It's nothing. This palanquin is smooth compared to that, going slowly and being carried. I think the main point, Srila Prabhupada, is that we have to consider going as opposed to staying here with the possibility of being at the..., under the care of this other kaviraja. That to me is the choice. This kaviraja will give medicines... First of all, we can try to convince him to stay, but failing that, he's giving a series of medicines which he expects will be proper according to the condition. But naturally the condition can change on any date. Then what will we do?

Prabhupada: I say no medicine.

Tamala Krsna: No medicine. We should reject this kaviraja.

[background whispering]

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Brahmananda: Yadubara was asking how much time the kaviraja would stay with you in Mayapur.

Tamala Krsna: Every few days he'll be there-every two days, every three days.

Yadubara: He said like that?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, he's prepared to do that.

Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada? Is there some... You're feeling some bad effect from these medicines that you want to reject them? [pause]

Prabhupada: At least there is risk of life.

Tamala Krsna: By traveling.

Prabhupada: I see that.

Bhavananda: We've also seen, Srila Prabhupada, that while you've been here in Vrndavana without this kaviraja, your condition has steadily deteriorated. Now he's come, and there's some slight improvement. We can speak to him about staying, but it's highly unlikely that he'll be able to stay away from his practice for any time longer. Then, if your condition turns again, then what do we do? There's also risk.

Prabhupada: No, no. Risk is there, and risk is here. So better take the risk here.

Bhavananda: And chance of survival is here and chance of survival is there. But where is the...

Prabhupada: No. Provided you reach there. There is survival or whatever it may be, but whether there is arrival? The best thing is no medicine, and kindly give me some circambulation [sic] and leave me to the fate.

Bhakti-caru: But, Srila Prabhupada, don't you think that the medicine is working, is having some good effect?

Prabhupada: Hmm? If it is working, then why I'm not feeling any strength?

Bhakti-caru: That will come slowly, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Ah. That means I have to take the medicine and not that risking. The best thing is, whatever service you can give, you arrange. Leave me without medicine.

Bhavananda: Why is that the best thing, Srila Prabhupada? Why is that the best thing?

Prabhupada: Because all, everything has failed.

Bhavananda: This kaviraja has not promised miraculous recovery. He has said it takes time.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. At least fifteen days, he said.

Bhavananda: We're all feeling encouraged for the first time.

Bhakti-caru: Actually, the kaviraja has left it up to you, Srila Prabhupada. He said that the way you have cured your cough and cold in just a day, in just a few hours' time, the same way you can cure all your disease if you want, just yourself, without any medicine. At the same time, you dreamed this Ramanuja kaviraja giving you the medicine, and ever since you started taking the medicines there has been some good effect, like you started passing more urine, you started getting a little appetite, little taste; your swelling has gone down, to a little..., to some extent.

Prabhupada: Swelling has not...

[long silence]

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? About two days ago you said that either the kaviraja should stay here or we should go with him. So why should we change that idea?

Prabhupada: Because in this morning I was fainting. So there was no strength. How long I circambulate?

Tamala Krsna: About a half hour.

Prabhupada: Even half hour, if I am fainting... So if I die without medicine, without kaviraja, what is the harm? Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: According to the kaviraja, his treatment is that first of all he has to take care of your liver and kidneys before giving you strength. He said there's no question of you getting any strength until your liver and kidneys are healed.

Prabhupada: So take the medicine.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. So the first part of his cure is to help your liver and kidneys. Then, when they are functioning properly, you'll be able to eat and other things which will automatically give strength. Medicine will not give strength, but medicine can cure the organs which are now not working properly.

Prabhupada: No, you take medicine from him.

Tamala Krsna: Right. That was his proposal. His proposal was that you take medicine, and then after ten or fifteen days, you may have enough strength... And he was going to come back and then take you to Mayapur.

Prabhupada: So do that.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. The only reason that we were hesitant was because if something along the way happens, had he been here, he could have adjusted the medicine to suit the particular needs. Now, not being here, we'll have to depend upon this assistant in case something changes. If nothing changes, then there's no harm. But if something should suddenly alter...

Prabhupada: So that time...

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Alter means death.

Tamala Krsna: No, it doesn't mean death. Alter means supposing you suddenly develop some... You can't say what it will be. It doesn't necessarily mean death.

Bhakti-caru: Some secondary ailments.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Anything may come up. Just like sometimes you get a cough. Cough doesn't mean death. Sometimes you pass a little more stool. That doesn't mean death. So anyway, the idea is that having a kaviraja personally present naturally is the best thing. So if it's not possible, and that does develop, then we'll have to call upon the man he's..., this assistant.

Prabhupada: So why call Mayapur? Let him supply the medicine from Calcutta.

Tamala Krsna: Supply the medicine from Calcutta. Well, he said he can give enough medicine now to last, I think, for about another ten days. Even now.

Prabhupada: So that is all right.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. The main medicine, we have the supply for ten days already, that, the one that he distilled yesterday.

Tamala Krsna: Of course, we can still try and convince him not to go. That would be the best thing.

Prabhupada: No, he's staying, but actually you are administering his medicine. It doesn't require...

Bhakti-caru: ...his presence here.

Tamala Krsna: Providing that everything goes according to his plan. Yes, his presence is simply an encouragement, not necessarily a necessity at this..., so far.

Prabhupada: If he cannot stay, let his medicine remain and let him go. But if you think that I am burden now...

Tamala Krsna: [chuckling] No, that's not what we think. We will never think that. There will never come that time.

Brahmananda: We are the burden, Srila Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: We are the cause of your disease, Srila Prabhupada.

Brahmananda: You have to drag us back to Godhead. That is a very big burden.

Prabhupada: So as you think. But this morning I was fainting.

Bhakti-caru: That is because this parikrama is very strenuous, Srila Prabhupada, this jerking and swinging.

Prabhupada: So how...? How? How we can?

Brahmananda: So three hours to Delhi, then the plane ride and then three hours to Mayapur?

Bhakti-caru: No, I mean that is out of question.

Tamala Krsna: It's not out of the question. We were considering doing it. [laughter] It's only three hours away. [laughter]

Brahmananda: The cars are coming.

Tamala Krsna: The cars are coming. The tickets are booked. It's not out of the question. Satadhanya's in Calcutta. [laughter]

Bhakti-caru: But then again there is one advantage, that all along he can lie down. His Divine Grace can lie down.

Upendra: The only time he feels faint is when he's sitting up.

Tamala Krsna: So Upendra says that the time that you get faint is when you're sitting up. If you lay down you don't get faint. If the issue is that you got faint, then that's only because... I've seen you sitting in this bed and getting fainting sometimes, sitting up, fainting. Laying down... You can't faint when you lay down. Fainting is when you're sitting up. But practically the whole time you'll be sitting up..., I mean laying down. And neither fainting is necessarily... That is not a sign of death, fainting.

Prabhupada: Fainting means of death.

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada? I know myself, I have a history where I have fainted more than twenty-five times in my life, and I did not die. I fainted in so many different places. In the subways in New York...

Prabhupada: You are young man, and I am already dead.

[whispered conversation]

Tamala Krsna: Why don't we see what the kaviraja thinks, Srila Prabhupada? Should we call him?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

[whispered conversation]

Prabhupada: Why "phish-phish"? Why not talk?

Tamala Krsna: Stop whispering. Upendra was saying that not going is all right, but the fact that you are rejecting medicine, that is not good. So I was saying that I don't really think that you're rejecting the medicine, but you're taking that position so that we settle in between. [laughing] I can understand that you appreciate that the medicine is doing some good, but in order to get us to agree...

Brahmananda: It is you who were saying that by Prabhupada's not going, then we're at a loss for medicine. So then Prabhupada said, "All right, then no medicine."

Tamala Krsna: No. Also Prabhupada's saying no medicine so that if we say, "All right, stay, but take the medicine," then Prabhupada will...

Bhakti-caru: He'll agree to that, yes.

Tamala Krsna: Transcendental bargaining. [laughs] Srila Prabhupada, I have seen you dealing with the most tricky people in the world. I saw you dealing with that Mr. Nair, and then with that other man, Mr. Ratnaparkhe? So I can understand that when you say, [laughs] "No medicine at all," that we will then simply say, "Well, please, Srila Prabhupada, just take medicine and then you stay here," and you'll say, "All right." [laughs]

Prabhupada: I want simply once parikrama.

Tamala Krsna: One maha-parikrama?

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, one time around. Not many times.

Prabhupada: No, no. As I am doing, that much. Medicine, no medicine...

Tamala Krsna: Well, actually, we're also wanting you to do parikrama, but we would..., one day we are hoping to see you walking the parikrama.

Prabhupada: That's all right. For the time being, if by parikrama, fainting, dying, that is a glorious. That I want. Will it be great burden?

Tamala Krsna: No, no. That's not the question, of burden. The only thing is that we want you to get better. There's no question of burden.

Prabhupada: No, no, better...

Jayadvaita: It's a burden of love.

Prabhupada: Better... If suppose I am sure to die, then where is better?

Tamala Krsna: No, but we don't suppose that. We're not supposing that you're sure to die.

Bhavananda: We don't feel that at all.

Brahmananda: I don't think there's any question that you're going to die, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: In the morning this symptom...

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, you fainted... Although you don't remember sometimes, you have fainted at least a half a dozen times in the last month or two. I know you don't recall it, because we did not say anything. But we have seen you faint at least a half a dozen times, actually faint, falling backwards a little bit in bed when you were sitting up. In extreme weakness, fainting is natural. It is not necessarily a symptom of death. It's due to excessive weakness. The blood does not circulate properly in the head, and one faints. I mean, people faint all over the world all the time.

Jayadvaita: On Janmastami when they're fainting... When all the devotees fast, everyone faints. All day long they're fainting.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Jayadvaita: On Janmastami, when there's mandatory fasting for all the devotees, half of the devotees are fainting throughout the day.

Brahmananda: They faint?

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Bhavananda: Subhaga always faints.

Tamala Krsna: Sometimes devotees faint just from fasting one day. You have fasted for six months, Srila Prabhupada. If you faint a little bit, it's not a sign of death.

Prabhupada: No, no. I am welcoming death.

Tamala Krsna: I know. That's the... That's why we're talk...

Bhavananda: But we are not. We are not welcoming the idea of your death, Srila Prabhupada. You say, "What is the harm?" There is no harm for you. Your return to Krsna has been assured from your very birth.

Prabhupada: So why not allow me to do that?

Bhavananda: We are thinking of the harm for us and the rest of the world.

Prabhupada: That depends on Krsna. But for me, if you give me this facility-one parikrama, and then leave me to my fate-you'll give me... Because I am not eating, so keep me only as I am. But if you think that I have become burden, then...

[whispering about what Prabhupada said about burden]

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Bhavananda: I was just saying, Srila Prabhupada, something must have happened that you're feeling somehow that we think that you have become a burden. But we don't feel that way at all, Srila Prabhupada.

Jayadvaita: You've given the example in Srimad-Bhagavatam that when a capitalist has money, that's also a burden. And when the woman has a child, that child is a burden. So in the same way... But that burden is a burden of love. So you're that kind of burden, the kind of burden that's wanted.

Prabhupada: Where is kaviraja?

Tamala Krsna: Bhakti-caru went to get him.

Kaviraja: [Transl. What happened, Maharaja?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This morning when I was doing parikrama, at that time I fainted.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I see.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Therefore I came back quickly and lied down here.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. When you came to know, before that did you feel some uneasiness?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What? Yes.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Were you feeling discomfort from inside? Did you feel dizziness?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Very much.]

Tamala Krsna: Swelling is reducing.

Prabhupada: [Transl. In this condition, ten to twelve hours journey.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Yes. And the roads are not good at all. Let me check the pressure today. So after that it didn't happen again no? After you came back here, did it happen again?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What happened today, did such a thing happen to you before? Do you really? You don't remember.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. Nothing like that.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. You don't remember you had this kind of fainting before? Did he pass stool today?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Today he passed in the morning.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Okay. And not after that?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Pressure is normal.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. How much?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. The lower one is 85 and the higher one is 165. From the weakness point of view it is little high, but from the age point it is normal. The fact is Maharaja, the journey is very long.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. The journey is about eight to ten hours.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. The yatra is eight to ten hours. Only thing is you are weak, that's why. Otherwise your heart is in good condition. What is your order now tell me?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. From the symptom in the morning I feel exhausted.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Then you wait for a week and come. Other than weakness, the fits you got is because you are sitting up in your extremely weak condition. There is nothing else. No other reason. Not because the pressure is low or the pressure is high. Also your heart is working. There is no weakness or problem in the heart because of which the fits might have occurred. This happened because there is excessive weakness in the body and no food has been taken.

[Transl. There is blood deficiency in the body. All kinds of deficiencies are there. You were sitting up and this caused some exertion in the body and you fainted. Other than that there is no disturbance. To go, just imagine even to go to Delhi from here the road is so bad. In between here and Delhi the road is very uneven. I know because I just came. At least half a mile road is extremely bad.]

[end]